UK pensions

[sandyf]

This is the document in question  http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/349/pdfs/uksi_20170349_en.pdf

 

and this is the paragraph that needs amending.

 

Persons not ordinarily resident in Great Britain

3. Regulation 5 of the Social Security Benefit (Persons Abroad) Regulations 1975(b) (application of disqualification in respect of up-rating of benefit) and regulation 21 of the State Pension Regulations 2015(c) (entitlement to state pension for overseas residents) shall apply to any additional benefit payable by virtue of the Up-rating Order and to any up-rating increase as defined in section 22(1) of the Pensions Act 2014 respectively.

[mommysboy]

In this argument, it is also fair imo to say that since the Pensions Act 2014, the UK Government Pension even more resembles a private pension plan, where payments are made according to contributions and no other factors. This makes any form of discrimination even more dubious.

[billd766]

I can accept the frozen pension quite happily and the reasons behind non payment of it.

 

I will do as well just as soon as the UK government stops me paying income tax and therefore partly subsidising my state pension without actually increasing it.

 

They refuse to end my frozen pension and expect me to be happy to pay them more.

 

Does it not occur to the government that by unfreezing our pensions they will get more money back in income tax thus offsetting some of the costs?

[billzant]

Sandy, My understanding of the process is close to yours. Based on the law you quoted every year in parliament they discuss to approve a social security order where cost of living upratings are ratified. The last time was in February 2018 noted here (http://frozenbritishpensions.org/pensions-2018/) referring to a Hansard of the debate. There are a number of injustices covered by this social security order including our issue of entitled pensioners living overseas not being uprated. In the debate Debbie Abrahams MP (http://www.debbieabrahams.org.uk/) said :-

"In addition to the numerous social security payments subject to the Government’s benefits freeze and not uprated in this order, there are some very significant further omissions. Although the state pension is being uprated, people who have frozen pensions are excluded from the uprating and will not see an increase in their state pension in line with inflation. Pensioners living abroad face very different circumstances depending on whether their country of residence has a reciprocal agreement with the UK for the uprating of state pensions. Pensioners in countries without this arrangement see their pensions frozen at their initial retirement level, which means that the value of their pension falls in real terms every single year.

 

More than half a million people currently have their pensions frozen, mostly in Commonwealth countries such as India, Australia, Canada, parts of the Caribbean and New Zealand, and in countries with strong family and historical links to the UK such as Pakistan and parts of Africa. The Opposition believe that their pensions should be protected in the same way that the pensions of other UK citizens living abroad are in the future, yet the Government are choosing to withhold the pension uprating in this order from 550,000 recipients living outside the UK. This is a chance for the Government to make an historic change to our pension system and support our policy to end future arbitrary discrimination against some British pensioners living overseas by uprating in line with inflation from this point. Will the Minister look again at that issue and take action to address that inequality?"

 

The minister appears not to have looked again as there is no uprating for pensioners living "overseas".

 

Hopefully the ICBP campaign with Anne Puckridge will have an impact on next year's social security order. 

[nong38]

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I can accept the frozen pension quite happily and the reasons behind non payment of it.

 

I will do as well just as soon as the UK government stops me paying income tax and therefore partly subsidising my state pension without actually increasing it.

 

They refuse to end my frozen pension and expect me to be happy to pay them more.

 

Does it not occur to the government that by unfreezing our pensions they will get more money back in income tax thus offsetting some of the costs?

According to the DWP's own figures overseas pensioners save the government 3800GBP per year by not being in the UK to use services available.

[cleopatra2]

51 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I can accept the frozen pension quite happily and the reasons behind non payment of it.

 

I will do as well just as soon as the UK government stops me paying income tax and therefore partly subsidising my state pension without actually increasing it.

 

They refuse to end my frozen pension and expect me to be happy to pay them more.

 

Does it not occur to the government that by unfreezing our pensions they will get more money back in income tax thus offsetting some of the costs?

I agree with your personal circumstances and the injustice of paying UK tax.

Due to various double tax agreements pensions paid in Australia and Canada are taxed in them states and not the UK

[evadgib]

[Justin Side]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

And this bloke is?

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Justin Side said:

And this bloke is?

Ian Blackford, SNP MP.

[nong38]

29 minutes ago, vogie said:

Ian Blackford, SNP MP.

Leader of the SNP MP's in Parliament,

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

I can accept the frozen pension quite happily and the reasons behind non payment of it.

 

I will do as well just as soon as the UK government stops me paying income tax and therefore partly subsidising my state pension without actually increasing it.

 

They refuse to end my frozen pension and expect me to be happy to pay them more.

 

Does it not occur to the government that by unfreezing our pensions they will get more money back in income tax thus offsetting some of the costs?

Yes Bill, that is the real injustice. The problem is there are different types of "People Abroad", the term used in the Social Security legislation.

There is a big difference between people that have paid NI and tax for a few years and those that have paid all their working lives and continue to pay until the lights go out. 

[superal]

8 hours ago, Justin Side said:

And this bloke is?

I believe that Jeremy Corbyn has fought the corner of the frozen pensions 2  or 3 years ago but to no avail , though he promises to at least  unfreeze ( not sure about about back payments ) pensions if elected . 

I would like to see him throw this subject into TM at prime ministers questions time .

Does anyone know if Anne has been in contact with him ?

[nong38]

The problem is that easy to make statements in opposition when it comes to making the promises happen its suddenly a different way of doing things, usually cost and the promises don't happen. The cost of taking a chance with Corbyn is too great a risk, best leave him time to watch the Arsenal.

[bert bloggs]

2 hours ago, superal said:

I believe that Jeremy Corbyn has fought the corner of the frozen pensions 2  or 3 years ago but to no avail , though he promises to at least  unfreeze ( not sure about about back payments ) pensions if elected . 

I would like to see him throw this subject into TM at prime ministers questions time .

Does anyone know if Anne has been in contact with him ?

If Corbyn ever got into power the pound would be so low ,even if we got an uprating we would still be worse off .

[billzant]

Corbyn is a member of the APPG (All party campaigning group - http://frozenbritishpensions.org/) although I don't know how active he is with them now given he is Labour leader. Anne Puckridge and the ICBP were liaising with the APPG with the MP photo-ops.

[billzant]

I disagree with you, Bert "If Corbyn ever got into power the pound would be so low ,even if we got an uprating we would still be worse off ."

 

But whether you are right or wrong, what is the point of keeping the pound "high" (if that is true) if the money doesn't go to the people, if we don't get our entitlement.

[ivor bigun]

God help the Uk if the likes of Corbyn and Abbott ever got into power.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Justin Side]

2 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

God help the Uk if the likes of Corbyn and Abbott ever got into power.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Any reason as to why?

[simoh1490]

A Question:

 

Can a person become resident for tax purposes yet not be physically resident, almost certainly the answer must be yes? That being the case, doesn't that fix the uprating problem for many?

[Ron19]

Troll post removed.

[OJAS]

5 hours ago, nong38 said:

The problem is that easy to make statements in opposition when it comes to making the promises happen its suddenly a different way of doing things, usually cost and the promises don't happen. The cost of taking a chance with Corbyn is too great a risk, best leave him time to watch the Arsenal.

Indeed. When those making such statements eventually find themselves in a position to deliver on their promises, they inveriably encounter an insurmountable obstacle in the form of DWP's Sir Humphrey.

[Expattaff1308]

50 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Indeed. When those making such statements eventually find themselves in a position to deliver on their promises, they inveriably encounter an insurmountable obstacle in the form of DWP's Sir Humphrey.

Exactly - Remember Steve Webb (Lib Dem) when in opposition spoke no less than 4 times condemning this unjust rule and urged government to do the right thing and stop this unjust freezing of pensions....move onto the coalition Steve Webb Pension Minister....This rule hasnt been changed in decades and I see no need to change it now!! 

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

Indeed. When those making such statements eventually find themselves in a position to deliver on their promises, they inveriably encounter an insurmountable obstacle in the form of DWP's Sir Humphrey.

Indeed, wasn't it a policy statement of the Conservatives that they would uprate the pensions, and then in power, nothing is done.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

A Question:

 

Can a person become resident for tax purposes yet not be physically resident, almost certainly the answer must be yes? That being the case, doesn't that fix the uprating problem for many?

It's not a question of residency for tax purposes, it's a question of physical residence.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

It's not a question of residency for tax purposes, it's a question of physical residence.

I've been non-UK resident for the past 16 years, this year I bought a UK flat and spent four months there and immediately announced to the world that I was UK resident once again. Towards the end of the four months I decided the weather was too cold for my liking so I put a tenant in the flat and came back to Thailand. My accountant has said we can decide in March how to play the next tax year but for this year I am UK resident for tax purposes, conceivably next year I may spend a few months in the flat once again with a view to trying to live there for six months out of the year. I believe that six months in the UK each year constitutes UK residency in all respects.

[ivor bigun]

Any reason as to why?

If you dont know why,you deserve them.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nong38]

26 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I've been non-UK resident for the past 16 years, this year I bought a UK flat and spent four months there and immediately announced to the world that I was UK resident once again. Towards the end of the four months I decided the weather was too cold for my liking so I put a tenant in the flat and came back to Thailand. My accountant has said we can decide in March how to play the next tax year but for this year I am UK resident for tax purposes, conceivably next year I may spend a few months in the flat once again with a view to trying to live there for six months out of the year. I believe that six months in the UK each year constitutes UK residency in all respects.

6 months in the UK would qualify you for the current level of pension as enjoyed in the UK, however, you must be careful using that flat address if others are living there. It is possible that they might just let the cat out of the bag unintentionally.

[simoh1490]

6 minutes ago, nong38 said:

6 months in the UK would qualify you for the current level of pension as enjoyed in the UK, however, you must be careful using that flat address if others are living there. It is possible that they might just let the cat out of the bag unintentionally.

I have mail forwarding to my sisters address.

[nontabury]

47 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I've been non-UK resident for the past 16 years, this year I bought a UK flat and spent four months there and immediately announced to the world that I was UK resident once again. Towards the end of the four months I decided the weather was too cold for my liking so I put a tenant in the flat and came back to Thailand. My accountant has said we can decide in March how to play the next tax year but for this year I am UK resident for tax purposes, conceivably next year I may spend a few months in the flat once again with a view to trying to live there for six months out of the year. I believe that six months in the UK each year constitutes UK residency in all respects.

You need to be a Uk resident for two years, in order to retain your present pension rate. If you then return overseas permanently, your pension will then be re-frozen at the date of departure, if you decide to inform them.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

You need to be a Uk resident for two years, in order to retain your present pension rate. If you then return overseas permanently, your pension will then be re-frozen at the date of departure, if you decide to inform them.

I've seen you post that before, do you have a link that confirms because I have never been able to find one?