UK pensions

[jpinx]

I'm not good enough with numbers to do it "properly" - - but if anyone can make up an example showing what someone would have paid over the last 40 years, and then applied some averaged private industry compound interest rate over those 40 years, then bought an annuity at age 65 - what would they be getting now? No need to go extreme, just take an average of the main banks top term rates over that period. Hope someone can do the numbers for us ,,,

[SgtRock]

jpinx, on 20 Feb 2016 - 17:50, said:

I'm not good enough with numbers to do it "properly" - - but if anyone can make up an example showing what someone would have paid over the last 40 years, and then applied some averaged private industry compound interest rate over those 40 years, then bought an annuity at age 65 - what would they be getting now? No need to go extreme, just take an average of the main banks top term rates over that period. Hope someone can do the numbers for us ,,,

Try this out

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1633402/Pension-pot-calculator-How-need-save-retirement.html

[steve187]

if you avaged £30,000 pa over 40 years, you would have paid on average 10% NI, after a lower earning threshold of say £100 per week, so 30,000/52-100=£477weekly@10% =£47.70 NI weekly *52*40= £99,216, but that money would have given you your national heath usage ( for your whole life) as well. so you paid £47.70 per week to get a pension of say £160 per week, ( excluding other benefits) not a bad return

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

if you avaged £30,000 pa over 40 years, you would have paid on average 10% NI, after a lower earning threshold of say £100 per week, so 30,000/52-100=£477weekly@10% =£47.70 NI weekly *52*40= £99,216, but that money would have given you your national heath usage ( for your whole life) as well. so you paid £47.70 per week to get a pension of say £160 per week, ( excluding other benefits) not a bad return[/quote

If you also factor in that the State pension is index linked then it represents an excellent return. If you obtain an annuity quote then ask the same quote with index linking, you will see it halve in value.

[jpinx]

jpinx, on 20 Feb 2016 - 17:50, said:

I'm not good enough with numbers to do it "properly" - - but if anyone can make up an example showing what someone would have paid over the last 40 years, and then applied some averaged private industry compound interest rate over those 40 years, then bought an annuity at age 65 - what would they be getting now? No need to go extreme, just take an average of the main banks top term rates over that period. Hope someone can do the numbers for us ,,,

Try this out

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1633402/Pension-pot-calculator-How-need-save-retirement.html

Used....

http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php

to do the calculation of how much the NIC would have made in a savings account 1970 to 2015

averaged out the contributions to £150 per month

averaged out the interest rates for same period using historic rates here...

http://swanlowpark.co.uk/savingsinterestannual.jsp

at 6.1039130434782605 %

Pot now worth about £220,000.

Bought annuity at todays rates shown here...

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1633402/Pension-pot-calculator-How-need-save-retirement.html

...giving a pension of about £13200 p.a (£253/week)

Obviously only an estimate and based on very safe and conservative figures, but is anyone getting £250/week basic pension?

[Liquorice]

if you avaged £30,000 pa over 40 years, you would have paid on average 10% NI, after a lower earning threshold of say £100 per week, so 30,000/52-100=£477weekly@10% =£47.70 NI weekly *52*40= £99,216, but that money would have given you your national heath usage ( for your whole life) as well. so you paid £47.70 per week to get a pension of say £160 per week, ( excluding other benefits) not a bad return

15 -20% of people born within any given year never reach the age of 65.

Between 65 -85 the death percentage increases dramatically.

Life expectancy for a man is 79 and 83 for a woman.

The retirement age is increasing from 65 - 67, maybe more.

47.70 a week deposited in a Savings account from 18 - 65 would be £116,578.80 (not to mention accruing interest)

£160 a week from 65 - 79 (life expectancy) is £116.480.00

Don't forget the frozen pensions as well.

The Government is still the only guaranteed winner, percentage wise!

[jpinx]

if you avaged £30,000 pa over 40 years, you would have paid on average 10% NI, after a lower earning threshold of say £100 per week, so 30,000/52-100=£477weekly@10% =£47.70 NI weekly *52*40= £99,216, but that money would have given you your national heath usage ( for your whole life) as well. so you paid £47.70 per week to get a pension of say £160 per week, ( excluding other benefits) not a bad return[/quote

If you also factor in that the State pension is index linked then it represents an excellent return. If you obtain an annuity quote then ask the same quote with index linking, you will see it halve in value.

Index linking is the annual increase, is it not, which is not available to pensioners in Thailand.

Index-linking an annuity s a non-starter, that's only for someone who expects to live to 100

[NoshowJones]

O.K folks here is one for us all, well we who are U.K. state pensioners anyway.

PetitionStop UK Government and Departments from labeling "State Pension" as benefits!

As State Pension has usually been contributed to over many years, it seems wrong to title it as a "benefit", and should revert back to what it has always been called, i.e. State Pension

Please sign.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/121267

The state pension is an entitlement and not a benefit. no matter how the British Government try to dress it up.

Haven't the MPs just been awarded a 10% increase in their salary this year? Much the same as last year, yet they will

steal from the state pensioners by withholding their annual increases.

[steve187]

the £47.70 isn't an either /or, so the best way would be to do the saving plan, as well as the compulory government plan, but who at 17 thinks of old age, i didn't think of the future until the 'saving plan' wasn't an option, the only good thing i did was had a 'government' job for 9 years that now gives me a good pension, but still years to wait and pay until the ' government ' plan cuts in

[sandyf]

I'm not good enough with numbers to do it "properly" - - but if anyone can make up an example showing what someone would have paid over the last 40 years, and then applied some averaged private industry compound interest rate over those 40 years, then bought an annuity at age 65 - what would they be getting now? No need to go extreme, just take an average of the main banks top term rates over that period. Hope someone can do the numbers for us ,,,

You obviously haven't grasped the difference between the unfunded and funded schemes. As there is no investment there cannot be any comparison.

The problem stems from the fact it was never really made clear how it was funded.

It is not as you say a ponzi scheme as it is supported by general taxation which will become a bit uncomfortable as time goes by. The trade off will be pension increases or tax increases.

[billd766]

jpinx, on 20 Feb 2016 - 17:50, said:

I'm not good enough with numbers to do it "properly" - - but if anyone can make up an example showing what someone would have paid over the last 40 years, and then applied some averaged private industry compound interest rate over those 40 years, then bought an annuity at age 65 - what would they be getting now? No need to go extreme, just take an average of the main banks top term rates over that period. Hope someone can do the numbers for us ,,,

Try this out

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1633402/Pension-pot-calculator-How-need-save-retirement.html

Used....

http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php

to do the calculation of how much the NIC would have made in a savings account 1970 to 2015

averaged out the contributions to £150 per month

averaged out the interest rates for same period using historic rates here...

http://swanlowpark.co.uk/savingsinterestannual.jsp

at 6.1039130434782605 %

Pot now worth about £220,000.

Bought annuity at todays rates shown here...

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1633402/Pension-pot-calculator-How-need-save-retirement.html

...giving a pension of about £13200 p.a (£253/week)

Obviously only an estimate and based on very safe and conservative figures, but is anyone getting £250/week basic pension?

I am getting £95 per week.

[Liquorice]

I used to work with a guy called Ray. Nice bloke, quiet but friendly.

He had some health issues and had started to take a fair amount of absence from work.

HR noticed he was approaching 65, so offered him a golden handshake to take early retirement.

Turns out he was 83. Some typo error 26 years earlier recorded on his file.

He'd deferred his State Pension for fear of being taxed to high heaven.

He took the offer, retired and claimed his State Pension.

He dropped dead 2 weeks later before he received a penny.

The point being it's sometimes better to take what you can, when you can and enjoy it.

You can't take it with you and you've worked for it.

[nontabury]

jpinx, on 20 Feb 2016 - 17:50, said:

I'm not good enough with numbers to do it "properly" - - but if anyone can make up an example showing what someone would have paid over the last 40 years, and then applied some averaged private industry compound interest rate over those 40 years, then bought an annuity at age 65 - what would they be getting now? No need to go extreme, just take an average of the main banks top term rates over that period. Hope someone can do the numbers for us ,,,

Try this out

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1633402/Pension-pot-calculator-How-need-save-retirement.html

Used....

http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php

to do the calculation of how much the NIC would have made in a savings account 1970 to 2015

averaged out the contributions to £150 per month

averaged out the interest rates for same period using historic rates here...

http://swanlowpark.co.uk/savingsinterestannual.jsp

at 6.1039130434782605 %

Pot now worth about £220,000.

Bought annuity at todays rates shown here...

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1633402/Pension-pot-calculator-How-need-save-retirement.html

...giving a pension of about £13200 p.a (£253/week)

Obviously only an estimate and based on very safe and conservative figures, but is anyone getting £250/week basic pension?

I am getting £95 per week.

That's peanuts,I'm on the big money. £99 per week.

[chiang mai]

I'm getting 110.00 per week but then the contracted out element was privately invested and that produces a further 57 a week in the form of a drawdown. To get that amount I had to play catch up at age 60 by back paying nine years of NI contributions, a really really good deal.

[billd766]

Used....

http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php

to do the calculation of how much the NIC would have made in a savings account 1970 to 2015

averaged out the contributions to £150 per month

averaged out the interest rates for same period using historic rates here...

http://swanlowpark.co.uk/savingsinterestannual.jsp

at 6.1039130434782605 %

Pot now worth about £220,000.

Bought annuity at todays rates shown here...

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1633402/Pension-pot-calculator-How-need-save-retirement.html

...giving a pension of about £13200 p.a (£253/week)

Obviously only an estimate and based on very safe and conservative figures, but is anyone getting £250/week basic pension?

I am getting £95 per week.

That's peanuts,I'm on the big money. £99 per week.

[Ricardo]

Or perhaps this one, "If I Were A M P Rich Man !"

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

jpinx, on 20 Feb 2016 - 17:50, said:

I'm not good enough with numbers to do it "properly" - - but if anyone can make up an example showing what someone would have paid over the last 40 years, and then applied some averaged private industry compound interest rate over those 40 years, then bought an annuity at age 65 - what would they be getting now? No need to go extreme, just take an average of the main banks top term rates over that period. Hope someone can do the numbers for us ,,,

Try this out

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1633402/Pension-pot-calculator-How-need-save-retirement.html

Used....

http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php

to do the calculation of how much the NIC would have made in a savings account 1970 to 2015

averaged out the contributions to £150 per month

averaged out the interest rates for same period using historic rates here...

http://swanlowpark.co.uk/savingsinterestannual.jsp

at 6.1039130434782605 %

Pot now worth about £220,000.

Bought annuity at todays rates shown here...

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1633402/Pension-pot-calculator-How-need-save-retirement.html

...giving a pension of about £13200 p.a (£253/week)

Obviously only an estimate and based on very safe and conservative figures, but is anyone getting £250/week basic pension?

When you posed the question were you thinking of the basic state pension with all the add on's i.e. Serps,SP2,Graduated pension ?

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

jpinx, on 20 Feb 2016 - 17:50, said:

I'm not good enough with numbers to do it "properly" - - but if anyone can make up an example showing what someone would have paid over the last 40 years, and then applied some averaged private industry compound interest rate over those 40 years, then bought an annuity at age 65 - what would they be getting now? No need to go extreme, just take an average of the main banks top term rates over that period. Hope someone can do the numbers for us ,,,

Try this out

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1633402/Pension-pot-calculator-How-need-save-retirement.html

Used....

http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php

to do the calculation of how much the NIC would have made in a savings account 1970 to 2015

averaged out the contributions to £150 per month

averaged out the interest rates for same period using historic rates here...

http://swanlowpark.co.uk/savingsinterestannual.jsp

at 6.1039130434782605 %

Pot now worth about £220,000.

Bought annuity at todays rates shown here...

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1633402/Pension-pot-calculator-How-need-save-retirement.html

...giving a pension of about £13200 p.a (£253/week)

Obviously only an estimate and based on very safe and conservative figures, but is anyone getting £250/week basic pension?

When you posed the question were you thinking of the basic state pension with all the add one I.e. Serps,SP2,Graduated pension ?

I've just researched it on the internet. The maximum state pension payable including all the add ons, in the year 2015/16, would be £275.95.

[jpinx]

When you posed the question were you thinking of the basic state pension with all the add one I.e. Serps,SP2,Graduated pension ?

I've just researched it on the internet. The maximum state pension payable including all the add ons, in the year 2015/16, would be £275.95.

Interesting -- maybe we're not getting such a bad deal after all What "add-ons" did you find? - bearing in mind that Thailand based pensioners don't get all of them.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

When you posed the question were you thinking of the basic state pension with all the add one I.e. Serps,SP2,Graduated pension ?

I've just researched it on the internet. The maximum state pension payable including all the add ons, in the year 2015/16, would be £275.95.

Interesting -- maybe we're not getting such a bad deal after all What "add-ons" did you find? - bearing in mind that Thailand based pensioners don't get all of them.

Those I listed in post #1795. State pensioners in Thailand are not debarred from receiving any of these. The problem is not that of eligibility to receive the add-ons, it's the lack of index linking.

[jpinx]

When you posed the question were you thinking of the basic state pension with all the add one I.e. Serps,SP2,Graduated pension ?

I've just researched it on the internet. The maximum state pension payable including all the add ons, in the year 2015/16, would be £275.95.

Interesting -- maybe we're not getting such a bad deal after all What "add-ons" did you find? - bearing in mind that Thailand based pensioners don't get all of them.

Those I listed in post #1795. State pensioners in Thailand are not debarred from receiving any of these. The problem is not that of eligibility to receive the add-ons, it's the lack of index linking.

Does NIC contribute to all those extras? I was talking about the flat-rate basic pension - not including heating allowance and happy xmas £10

[jpinx]

Yes, paid for out of NI contributions and I was not factoring in the £10 Christmas bonus or the winter fuel allowance. If you meant the basic pension then the amount would be £115.95.

That makes more sense...

The difficulty in this purely theoretical calculation, is guessing how much an ordinary working guy on the minimum wage would have paid for his contributions over the 40-odd years of his working life

[Johnniey]

I'm going back to the UK for a holiday. first time for years so want to contact someone and find out how many years I need to pay back.

Does anyone know if a phone call is the best way to start proceedings?

Also I have been an English teacher for 30 years, is there any way I can get off paying the voluntary contributions B I think they're called for being self-employed?

Cheers

[evadgib]

I'm going back to the UK for a holiday. first time for years so want to contact someone and find out how many years I need to pay back.

Does anyone know if a phone call is the best way to start proceedings?

Also I have been an English teacher for 30 years, is there any way I can get off paying the voluntary contributions B I think they're called for being self-employed?

Cheers

1. Assuming this isn't a troll post and you want to come clean why not tell them you're leaving for the first time on the date that you're coming back?

2. As far as I'm aware the rules for the self employed rate (Class 2 or 3, whichever was cheaper) are or have been re written therefore you'll need to ask HMRC.

[Johnniey]

I'm going back to the UK for a holiday. first time for years so want to contact someone and find out how many years I need to pay back.

Does anyone know if a phone call is the best way to start proceedings?

Also I have been an English teacher for 30 years, is there any way I can get off paying the voluntary contributions B I think they're called for being self-employed?

Cheers

1. Assuming this isn't a troll post and you want to come clean why not tell them you're leaving for the first time on the date that you're coming back?

2. As far as I'm aware the rules for the self employed rate (Class 2 or 3, whichever was cheaper) are or have been re written therefore you'll need to ask HMRC.

Assuming you're going senile, what exactly do you mean?

Come clean about what? I've done nothing wrong. I've paid about 10 years into the system, assuming my university days count and been working here ever since without paying a penny into it.

I have 17 years more to pay so want to start paying now. Then If I pay back 3 years I'll get the full pension, if there is one in 17 years, wont I?

My apologies but this thread is too long to read all of it.

[Liquorice]

You need 35 years of contributions as of April 2016 to receive the full State Pension.

[denby45]

I'm going back to the UK for a holiday. first time for years so want to contact someone and find out how many years I need to pay back.

Does anyone know if a phone call is the best way to start proceedings?

Also I have been an English teacher for 30 years, is there any way I can get off paying the voluntary contributions B I think they're called for being self-employed?

Cheers

1. Assuming this isn't a troll post and you want to come clean why not tell them you're leaving for the first time on the date that you're coming back?

2. As far as I'm aware the rules for the self employed rate (Class 2 or 3, whichever was cheaper) are or have been re written therefore you'll need to ask HMRC.

Assuming you're going senile, what exactly do you mean?

Come clean about what? I've done nothing wrong. I've paid about 10 years into the system, assuming my university days count and been working here ever since without paying a penny into it.

I have 17 years more to pay so want to start paying now. Then If I pay back 3 years I'll get the full pension, if there is one in 17 years, wont I?

My apologies but this thread is too long to read all of it.

As stated in the post above you need 35 years for the full pension and you can only back pay up to six years. However you probably will be able to add a couple of years to your 17 years before retirement when the government push out the retirement age.

Den

[kingalfred]

You need 35 years of contributions as of April 2016 to receive the full State Pension.

30

Years for pension. 35 for the higher rate

[1happykamper]

I only worked in England for 6 years.. Any chance of a few pennies at my full retirement age now?

[jpinx]

I only worked in England for 6 years.. Any chance of a few pennies at my full retirement age now?

It will only be pennies, if anything, but you can apply to them for a forecast.