Laptop Reballing

[Moonrakers]

I have a faulty hp laptop with faulty soldering that needs reballing. It's not a job I can do myself.

I've tried calling round but nobody seems interested in listening to the problem I have, instead they try to insist I need a new motherboard, screen, battery etc (it's never the same). They just seem insistent on trying to sell me something that I know I don't need.

Can anybody please recommend a place that will just do the job (reballing) I am asking of them, and do it well?

Thanks

[Derifo]

faulty soldering that needs reballing

You can just buy a soldering iron and some lead if you're sure the above is all you need done to the laptop. if you don't want to buy one, and there's a guy fixing mobile phones in your street, you can just ask him to do it for you.

[bobl]

Not a chance. Amongst other things I've been an (component level repair) electronics engineer and even I wouldn't want to try this without some specialised equipment. It certainly can't be done with a soldering iron alone.

Finding someone with that level of skill in this day and age - well, it's been many years since the cost of repair greatly exceeds the cost of replacement. People just don't get the training any more.

I can't speak for Thailand but back in Tanzania if I needed something like this my only stop would be the university, to check if they maybe had suitable equipment in one of their labs...

[BB1950]

reballing???

I didn't know laptops had balls!

Seriously, where are you located?

And how did you determine that it has faulty soldering?

They just seem insistent on trying to sell me something that I know I don't need.

Seems to me that you don't know what you need!

Edited March 15, 2012 by BB1950

[gtm2k]

I think the OP meant something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQeanpujmuM

..and it does seem like a job for the skilled one !

[Pib]

Unless it's a very simple soldering job needed, like maybe an output connector, the soldering job my be beyond any normal shop if the motherboard is a "multi-layer" board....that is, electrical runs/connections sandwiched between motherboard layers...this requires highly specialized equipment. And such a board may not even look like a multi-layer board when in fact it is. Multi-layer boards are becoming the norm now days in that it allows for a smaller board which can accept more IC's for our thin and lite electronic devices, which are getting smaller everyday.

[mamypoko]

OP...just a shot in the dark here.....do you have a HP dv model? Are we talking about a faulty Nvidia chip?

We might be in the same boat here. lmk

[Sateev]

Unless it's a very simple soldering job needed, like maybe an output connector, the soldering job my be beyond any normal shop if the motherboard is a "multi-layer" board....that is, electrical runs/connections sandwiched between motherboard layers...this requires highly specialized equipment. And such a board may not even look like a multi-layer board when in fact it is. Multi-layer boards are becoming the norm now days in that it allows for a smaller board which can accept more IC's for our thin and lite electronic devices, which are getting smaller everyday.

Multi-layer PCBs have been 'the norm' for decades already, and Ball Grid Array (BGA) components form the bulk of LSI parts like microprocessors and video processors on laptop and desktop PCs. Watch the video above. Aside from the fixturing and specialized equipment, these parts require X-ray inspection to verify their solder integrity, even with brand-new production assemblies. The chances of even a skilled and experienced technician getting this right on a one-off basis are nil. The video showing X-Box repair is likely a mainstay for that company, and the procedure has been honed to a fine edge by trial-and-error, over MANY repairs.

As said above, the repair cost, especially on a one-off basis, FAR exceeds the replacement cost.

Learn your lesson: buy a new motherboard, or, better yet, a new laptop of better quality.

Some HP stuff was quite good, but lately, as in all things, the quality is falling off.

Good luck.

[Moonrakers]

OP...just a shot in the dark here.....do you have a HP dv model? Are we talking about a faulty Nvidia chip?

We might be in the same boat here. lmk

Yes. I suspect you and I have the exact same problem

I've done the temp fix, which is forcing it to over heat. This is obviously not to be recommended although it did work........ temporarily. It also confirmed what the problem is.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Moonrakers

[NHJ]

gold fish(ปลาทอง) will be able to do it 4th floor at pantip, i did visit the lab, they got the equipement and spare chipset/gpu ready.

[Moonrakers]

gold fish(ปลาทอง) will be able to do it 4th floor at pantip, i did visit the lab, they got the equipement and spare chipset/gpu ready.

Thank you.

I'll give them a call

[givenall]

If you decide to take it to a service center, take it only to HP located in Rama 4 next to Citi bank. I have had nothing but problem with any other service center even if they are Authorize by HP

[Moonrakers]

gold fish(ปลาทอง) will be able to do it 4th floor at pantip, i did visit the lab, they got the equipement and spare chipset/gpu ready.

Thank you.

I'll give them a call

Don't suppose you'll have their number? I'm struggling to find it myself.

Thanks

[bobl]

Gobsmacked that there's a place with this equipment do let us know how it goes OP... Good luck...

[Moonrakers]

Gobsmacked that there's a place with this equipment do let us know how it goes OP... Good luck...

Will do

Now I know the problem and know where to go to get it fixed, my biggest challenge now is getting off my arse and doing something about it.

[Jdietz]

Zeer Rangsit in the dungeons (cellar) have a couple of repair places with the equipment to rework BGAs, have a look around.

[BlackArtemis]

I just baked my GPU, sadly the fix only lasted a few hours, the card was way too gone.

I put the card on aluminum foil and then baked it at 200°F for 8 minutes to reflow the solder.

The hardest part is finding an oven in Thailand.

[Satcommlee]

I think you are in the realm of 'beyond economical repair', in the western world.

But this is Thailand, and the guy you need may be just round the corner but you won't find him at Tuk Com.

You need find someone who's job is to repair things a dam_n site more expensive than HP laptops and bung him a few baht.

[jayceebee]

I think you are in the realm of 'beyond economical repair', in the western world.

But this is Thailand, and the guy you need may be just round the corner but you won't find him at Tuk Com.

You need find someone who's job is to repair things a dam_n site more expensive than HP laptops and bung him a few baht.

Spot on, the correct equipment to do a reliable repair of this kind costs tens of thousands of pounds. As the heat is applied to both sides at once it's imperative the PCB manufacturers temprature settings are used or it will distort and also cause other component stress and damage. Do you think that a major firm is going to give this priveliged info to someone running a small operation?

Anyone who says they can do it on the cheap is using basic BGA rework equipment and the repair will be at best a bodge job.

Edited March 15, 2012 by jayceebee

[Sateev]

I just baked my GPU, sadly the fix only lasted a few hours, the card was way too gone.

I put the card on aluminum foil and then baked it at 200°F for 8 minutes to reflow the solder.

The hardest part is finding an oven in Thailand.

200°F won't even BEGIN to reflow solder. Temperatures higher than that are used as pre-heat for the reflow process. What it will do, however (and probably did) is cause thermal expansion to the parts involved so that they move/warp slightly, perhaps enough to TEMPORARILY re-establish contact (partial contact?) in a bad solder joint. Not a long-lived repair, but as someone else pointed out, a good confirmation of what the problem is.

Modern BGA solders (non-lead, ROHS compliant) reflow somewhere around 211°C or above (over 418°F).

I'll be watching closely to see the outcome of the Pantip/MBK/Zeer forays, and, especially, if they work, for how long....

Edited March 16, 2012 by Sateev

[Crossy]

Zeer Rangsit in the dungeons (cellar) have a couple of repair places with the equipment to rework BGAs, have a look around.

Have you been since the flooding?? The whole basement area was totalled

[jackbox]

Has anyone had luck with the Goldfish buy at Pantip. My Nvidia card in my notebook went tits up the other day. It is the classic system of Nvidia cards that need reballing. It is just that the gpu needs to be reset. I can send it to the UK for 35 pounds, but if someone can do it locally I would prefer that. Hopefully someone with some success with a local repair shop can chime in here.

[astral]

Have you tried asking the HP Service centre ?

They will give you an accurate answer, the local hole in the wall is not so reliable.

[jackbox]

Have you tried asking the HP Service centre ?

They will give you an accurate answer, the local hole in the wall is not so reliable.

That would not do me much good since my computer is a Gateway and Gateway is out of business. This is a common problem with Nvidia video cards due to the use of non-leaded solder for environmental reasons. It has a much lower melting point and the solder begins to liquefy when the cards heat up. If you don't remove dust every few months the internal cooling system is compromised and the cards run too hot. The GPUs begin to separate from the board. I can actually see this partial separation on my card. It is just a simple matter of either reflowing the GPU to the board or removing it and reballing it. If you watch youtube videos is is actually a relatively simple, but time consuming procedure with any with moderate to expert soldering skills. These cards are extraordinarily expensive to replace. If a competent service point can be found for repairing them that is the much more desirable option than buying a new card which often costs more than a new computer would. Please keep replies on topic. I want information on the Platong store in Pantip and if anyone has used their services. Suggesting a local service center is not helpful.

[jackbox]

Here is an update to my situation. After researching the issue on Google I decided to try and fix the card myself. I bought a hot air gun at Big C for 705 baht. The primary purpose of the air gun is for paint stripping and has two heat settings, 300 and 500 degrees C. After removing the video card from the notebook, I heated the GPU chip for about one to two minutes using the 300 degrees C setting on the hot air gun. I heated the chip until I saw solder in the neighboring area looking molten. I then stopped heating the GPU and let the board cool down for about 20 minutes. I replaced the card in the notebook and remounted the heat sink assembly and put new thermal compound between the heat sink and the GPU chip. After reassembling everything the notebook is working perfectly again. Basically heating up the GPU reflowed the solder and corrected whatever solder ball connection had an issue (usually the chip separates from the board due to heat or a microfracture develops from repeated heating and cooling when the computer has been used and then turned off). This seems to be a very common issue with Nvidia based graphics cards. Hopefully it will last for a while before it fails again. Buying the heat gun was certainly cheaper than buying a new video card (3,500 baht plus) or buying a new computer. Maybe this fix will help someone else in a similar issue. Using a heat gun to direct the heat to the GPU chip is certainly better than baking the entire card in an oven.

Edited August 14, 2012 by jackbox

[ITGabs]

nice advice, in Chiang Mai I tried to fix my old laptop that have problems with the power plug in the motherboard, I check around all the business in the IT plaza and some other place nearby, the same result all the people try to sell me a new charger and some shops that are specialized to fix computers they tell me that I need a replacement for the connector that is not easy to find, at the end I did it my self, cleaning and reballing, now work, not perfect but I can use the laptop

[NHJ]

nice advice, in Chiang Mai I tried to fix my old laptop that have problems with the power plug in the motherboard, I check around all the business in the IT plaza and some other place nearby, the same result all the people try to sell me a new charger and some shops that are specialized to fix computers they tell me that I need a replacement for the connector that is not easy to find, at the end I did it my self, cleaning and reballing, now work, not perfect but I can use the laptop

LMAO you don't reball connectors only BGA chips!

[jackbox]

nice advice, in Chiang Mai I tried to fix my old laptop that have problems with the power plug in the motherboard, I check around all the business in the IT plaza and some other place nearby, the same result all the people try to sell me a new charger and some shops that are specialized to fix computers they tell me that I need a replacement for the connector that is not easy to find, at the end I did it my self, cleaning and reballing, now work, not perfect but I can use the laptop

LMAO you don't reball connectors only BGA chips!

Hey give the guy a break. He accomplished the same goal with applying the same principle. Just because he reflowed a solder joint instead of reflowing the solder on a BGA (Ball Grid Array) is no reason to laugh at him. Still helpful info nontheless. If you have a problem with a device try high, directed heat in the range of 200 to 300 C for one to two minutes until the solder is molten again and you have reflowed the solder and possibly fixed a bad, defective solder joint.

[wpcoe]

I've read of a similar process where you put the video card in an oven to accomplish the same as what you did with a heat gun.

Google "baking video card" for videos and articles.

[jackbox]

I've read of a similar process where you put the video card in an oven to accomplish the same as what you did with a heat gun.

Google "baking video card" for videos and articles.

Yes, but baking the card heats up all the components which can damage the board beyond repair. The heat gun directs the heat to a limited area which is better since all you need to do is reflow the solder that attaches the BGA GPU package to the circuit board.