Bangkok BTS Apologises For Guard's Clash With Irish Passenger

[djayz]

To a certain extent I can understand his frustration - he's allowed to take (in this case) balloons on at one station, but not at the other. Are there different rules at every BTS station? I think the biggest problem is the lack of STANDARD rules - the security guards don't know what's allowed and not allowed and we as commuters sure as h*ll don't know.

On the other hand, I most certainly won't start an argument over something as trivial as balloons - even if they were for my daughter.

[newermonkey]

Does anybody know what "Soda Fai" is? I interviewed a balloon vendor here in Chiang Rai. He had one of those gas generators that looked like a house stove. He said he uses "Soda Fai" to generate the gas he uses for balloons. I am not sure if that was calcium carbide.

Soda Fai is caustic soda, NaOH. It is commonly used as a method of producing Hydrogen for filling balloons. Contrary to many posts here, many floating balloons in Thailand are indeed filled with cheap Hydrogen, rather than expensive Helium. Holding one, or standing next to one in a BTS carriage, that exploded would not simply result in singed hair. The fact that the balloons in question here did not float would suggest they did not contain Hydrogen, nor Helium, but doesn't necessarily mean they contained air.

The debate over signs, or lack of them is a bit of a red herring. If a security guard says no you do not attempt to push past him. Why not send one of the Thai speaking members of the party, and his wife says her mother was with him, to the counter for clarification? The man with the balloons could wait in the "safe zone" until the response came back. In this case, as the BTS manager has testified, the answer would be no, and some alternative travel arrangement would need to be made, although even then I can't help thinking that the man in question wouldn't easily accept it.

One last point: I wonder just how many people here condemning the guard's actions would have applauded the airport security guard had he hit the superior who tried to push past him at Suwannaphum recently?

Probably an acetylene gas generator, "very dangerous"

[bobl]

Those of you who have contributed to the racist and negative abuse of this person should be ashamed. What would your reaction be if you were smashed in the face with a baton during an argument about balloons, infront of your daughter?

I think the point people are trying to make is that they wouldn't get into an argument about baloons, in front of their daughter. Unfortunately for our Irish friend most people are over-reacting to the video which has been released - which if you put your personal bias aside for a moment, you would be forced to admit makes him look like an arse.

As to the conflicting reports about what led to the incident in the video - personally I don't buy the scenario being put forward by the apologists, that it went along the lines of "Sorry, you can't take the ballons onto the train" - "Why not, I've done it before and got away with it" - "WHACK!". Nor do I believe that the Irishman would "go off" like that unprovoked. So I maintain an open mind, an ability that seems to be lacking in many of the rants...

[Card]

Does anybody know what "Soda Fai" is? I interviewed a balloon vendor here in Chiang Rai. He had one of those gas generators that looked like a house stove. He said he uses "Soda Fai" to generate the gas he uses for balloons. I am not sure if that was calcium carbide.

On good authority, 'soda fai' is caustic soda. So it is most likely that he was generating hydrogen: 2 Al + 2 NaOH + 2 H₂O → 2 NaAlO₂ + 3 H_2Spooky!

[BigJohnnyBKK]

REMOVED

Totally bizarre, most likely a troll.

For the sake of newbies, adults in Thailand are expected to give up their seats for children young enough to be accompanied by their parents. Usually by the younger and fitter adults in the vicinity, but I've seen what I would consider pretty old people doing so, but generally polite people will give up their seats to the obviously infirm just as we (should) do back home. Obviously monks have top priority. Being female in itself doesn't factor into it - remember when a man used to give up his seat to a "lady" in the west? Thank buddha that's gone by the wayside. . .

Edited March 23, 2012 by Rimmer

[khunron13]

Good point!! The balloons had to have been filled with helium, which is an inert gas. Guards totally in the wrong for stopping him. Wonder if anyone tried explaining this to the guards, or if they have even thought about it?

The guards are not in the wrong they are following the rules. There are signs that clearly say "no balloons" near the BTS stations.

I ride the BTS from Phrom Phong at least 5 days out of the week. This morning I went out of my way to look for signs stating that balloons are not allowed. None to be found, but I did find signs forbidding food, drink and something else, inside the turnstiles!

Care to meet me this afternoon and show me the signs? Oh better yet, let's make it tomorrow afternoon so you have time to go to MBK and have some made!

[daiwill60]

Helium not hydrogen is the way forward.

Good point!! The balloons had to have been filled with helium, which is an inert gas. Guards totally in the wrong for stopping him. Wonder if anyone tried explaining this to the guards, or if they have even thought about it?

Perhaps they could relax the rules about balloons by taking a sample of the gas before transitting through the gates?

They would however have to form another queue beside the people being strip searched for lighters. Extra training would also be required for the security, mainly in the form of self defence for when they search the passengers, and more to the point when they can defend themselves.

"Why not just confiscate people's lighters (and matches) ?? Or at a minimum, follow the rules completely, Nothing quite as flammable as a cigarette lighter! Makes it tough to set other flammable materials on fire with out a fire source.

How about patting everyone down before entrance to check for flammables?? Strip searches??"

I had my lighter taken away from me when i was on a stopover at an indian airport last year, then went into the smoking area where the staff were more than willing to give you a light form a lighter in the bar .????????????????

Why are people allowed to fill baloons with acetylene , when Helium is the norm , because helium is hellish expensive , thats why. though they should certainly ban the use of acetylene.

[Rimmer]

Inappropriate post and replies to it removed

[djayz]

Not sure if people posting here have NO common sense, but:

* It is not important what type of gas is in the balloon

* It is not important that there were/are no signs prohibiting balloons on the BTS

* It is not important that he may have carried the balloons on the BTS earlier in the day

What is important is that the security person instructed him not to take the balloon/s on board, and he chose to ignore that instruction. When an attempt was made to prevent him doing so he became violent. The relative masses of the protagonists, 100+ Kgs versus 45 Kgs (estimated), left little choice of courses of action to the security person. I think he's damned lucky not to be more seriously injured.

I see the 'apology' by BTS management as a bit of face saving, something very important in Asia.

Does this mean that if security personnel instruct passengers to strip naked and crawl up the steps to the platform we should also comply with them? Does this mean we have to follow every instruction? Surely there should be a clearly defined list of items commuters may not carry with them onto the BTS. This would make it easier for everyone, passengers and security alike, to know what's allowed and not. There is just such a list at practically every airport around the world nowadays.

[daninthai]

When will Thais learn that a transfer is not a suitable punishment.

[rezbin]

My wife has been fallowing this story on Sanook, and the arguing will not stop. Some are so mad, that they actually found (and publicized) the guys work information (address, etc..). What they plan on doing with this information is unknown, but with the heat in the thread there, I don't suspect anything good.

[djayz]

Can somebody please start a thread to appeal for the guard to get his job back.

This "gentleman" is delusional thinking he was in the right. BTS has right to refuse service to anyone. He was refused service and then began his trespasing and assaults.

Bring back the guard!!

Bring back the guard!!

let us meet the guard and let us apologize for the actions of the wonderful teacher .

Teacher, Thanks for teaching your child that acting like a fool has its merits, like a bashed head, balloons, flowers, name in the papers, criminal lawsuits, - yeah baby!!

Why should "we" apologize for "his" actions???

[jaapfries]

How about an apology from the Irish Passenger to the BTS-Staff ? ? ? ?

He is, still, a guest in this country and should have displayed a measure of understanding for people doing their jobs !

Just my humble opninion.

[allan michaud]

The balloons had to have been filled with helium, which is an inert gas.

The balloons were filled with air. At 0:54 in the video the balloons are released and fall to the ground...no helium, no hydrogen, plain atmospheric air!

Now I don't wish to appear rude to the average Thai security guard but seriously, how many of you out there honestly think he/she is going to have any idea what inert means? or for that matter know what the effects of these various gases would have on said balloons?

I have to say if they are going to have this security it needs to be enforced properly. I don't like the hassle of being searched on the MRT but I do understand it. What I do not understand is the arbitrary security elsewhere. The big shops at Siam Sq always seem to have security on one door but not on another, why bother?

[Soutpeel]

The relative masses of the protagonists, 100+ Kgs versus 45 Kgs (estimated), left little choice of courses of action to the security person. I think he's damned lucky not to be more seriously injured.

Absolute <deleted>....if one is trained properly the differences in weight are somewhat irrelvant.

To me the case is closed, BST have come out and apologised to the farang and promised to co-operate with the police and relived Corporal Somchai of his duties.....therefore BST/security company have accepted responsibility for the actions of one of their employees, these actions alone infer who is to blame in this case.

Should have Farang concerned reacted in the way he did....No.....Should Ex-Corporal Somchai of the BST constabulary have hit the guy in the head with metal detector ?.....No but the fact is the BST guard committed GBH in this case.

I cant get over the amount of hatred shown to the Farang by witch hunting members of TV calling for him to loose his job, be hung drawn and quartered etc....a very sad bunch of old whinging bast*rds IMHO

[333]

I think when the truth comes out there will be a lot of foolish looking people on this forum. Quite frankly the racism and ignorance I have read surrounding this incident is disgusting. The video only shows the aftermath of an incident in which the victim was violently assaulted, with a metal baton, by the BTS security guard. The CCTV surveilance footage, if released, confirms that the victim (whilst carrying balloons) was assaulted. There was no violence of any kind by the victim preceding this incident, just an argument about balloons, which is proved by the evidence on the CCTV. The victim has been offered compensation by the BTS and apologised to.

The victim is a well respected, educated professional, who made a mistake trying to take balloons onto the BTS, his reaction in the video is understandable considering what happened to him.

Those of you who have contributed to the racist and negative abuse of this person should be ashamed. What would your reaction be if you were smashed in the face with a baton during an argument about balloons, infront of your daughter?

You're right. It's a well-known common occurence that small Thai security guards regularly hit much larger white men for no reason at all, particularly at heavily populated places like Phrom Pong station.

It's happened to me at least a dozen times.

I just laugh it off.

No of course its not a well known occurence. But it did happen

[khunron13]

REMOVED

Totally bizarre, most likely a troll.

For the sake of newbies, adults in Thailand are expected to give up their seats for children young enough to be accompanied by their parents. Usually by the younger and fitter adults in the vicinity, but I've seen what I would consider pretty old people doing so, but generally polite people will give up their seats to the obviously infirm just as we (should) do back home. Obviously monks have top priority. Being female in itself doesn't factor into it - remember when a man used to give up his seat to a "lady" in the west? Thank buddha that's gone by the wayside. . .

I gave my seat to a monk one day when I first arrived here, after it was evident none of the Thai passengers were going to get up. Some passengers gave me a look of bewilderment, while the others gave me a smirk, as in "see, we made the buffalo stand up". Guess what? Never again will I give up my seat. But I also don't feel the need to fight for a seat when I'm only going to be on the train for less than 5 minutes. I'd rather spend my energy fighting to be first out the door so I can then stop right outside the door and make a phone call or search for my ticket!

Sorry... ...but you started it!

[BKKBrit]

My wife has been fallowing this story on Sanook, and the arguing will not stop. Some are so mad, that they actually found (and publicized) the guys work information (address, etc..). What they plan on doing with this information is unknown, but with the heat in the thread there, I don't suspect anything good.

It's everywhere. Cab driver this morning asked me if I was Irish and jokingly said he was glad I wasn't carrying any balloons! He said it's the talk of the town - and interestingly, he said what many in here have been saying these past few days...the 'quality' of farang coming to live and work in Thailand has gone down the proverbial toilet. He went on to say he'd lost count of the amount of times he'd been verbally abused by farangs. Really sad that there're so many ignoramuses coming to reside here.

[tominbkk]

He should have followed the rules and gotten a taxi....what a goofus.

[333]

I think when the truth comes out there will be a lot of foolish looking people on this forum. Quite frankly the racism and ignorance I have read surrounding this incident is disgusting. The video only shows the aftermath of an incident in which the victim was violently assaulted, with a metal baton, by the BTS security guard. The CCTV surveilance footage, if released, confirms that the victim (whilst carrying balloons) was assaulted. There was no violence of any kind by the victim preceding this incident, just an argument about balloons, which is proved by the evidence on the CCTV. The victim has been offered compensation by the BTS and apologised to.

The victim is a well respected, educated professional, who made a mistake trying to take balloons onto the BTS, his reaction in the video is understandable considering what happened to him.

Those of you who have contributed to the racist and negative abuse of this person should be ashamed. What would your reaction be if you were smashed in the face with a baton during an argument about balloons, infront of your daughter?

And you know this because you have seen the CCTV coverage? Prove it.

I know people who have seen the footage.

Really? And how did they get to see BTS security footage, and what is their interest in the matter? Methinks you (or them) speak with forked tongue.

I am not going to go into more detail, but I know the people involved. I know what happened. I know what the CCTV footage contained, and i know the victim was assaulted during a VERBAL argument. And I have sat reading the most disgusting comments about this incident, on here and on youtube.

If you payed attention to the woman who recorded the camera footage, you will know that she said she started filming after witnessing the assault.

[orosee]

I console myself with the thought that a lot of very, very disturbed and warped individuals are kept off Thailand's streets because they release theur hatred of their fellow man here on TV.

I am also happy that I ate donuts today because going through all 80+ pages of the 3 linked topics, I could not stop myself throwing up in my mouth over and over again.

I lived in and enjoyed Thailand (Bangkok) for 13 years and I'm now in another Asian country for 4 years, fortunately I have my memories and don't need to form my judgment over the country and it's people based on the vile excrement that the majority is spewing here. Not once in these 13 years have I met in person an individual that would impress me as so mean, self-loathing and subservient as the TV "hang em/guest here/makes us all look bad" mob. While the internet seems to bring out the most cancerous entrails of otherwise "normal" people, it also seems to be a means to control them by segregating them from the more humane population, by means of a computer screen and an internet cable.

If I have broken any TV rules with this post, come and break my facial bones with a hard object if you feel this is the appropriate response.

[bobl]

Surely there should be a clearly defined list of items commuters may not carry with them onto the BTS.

Ummm... It seems (going by a previous poster) that there is. And it's in pictures, to avoid language barriers.

[Bosse137]

I just told the story to my wife.She said:Why did he not just take out the air of the baloons;easy!!

[toybits]

This is why balloons are not allowed on board. Now if those balloons were filled with inert helium gas, the authorities would not have noticed. The problem is that balloons are almost always filled with Soda Fai gas (hydrogen gas). And they sell this as party props for children's parties?

This is what I was pointing at. If authorities cracked down on balloon gas, this would not have been a problem. But then there would almost be no lighter than air party balloons to sell. hmmm.

Does anybody know what "Soda Fai" is? I interviewed a balloon vendor here in Chiang Rai. He had one of those gas generators that looked like a house stove. He said he uses "Soda Fai" to generate the gas he uses for balloons. I am not sure if that was calcium carbide.

On good authority, 'soda fai' is caustic soda. So it is most likely that he was generating hydrogen: 2 Al + 2 NaOH + 2 H₂O → 2 NaAlO₂ + 3 H_2Spooky!

[joecos]

To me the Irish guy is way out of order,all that commotion, & violence in front of his young daughter,over a few balloons .A breatherlyser reading would have been interesting.

This sort of loutish behavior may be acceptable in Ireland, but certainly not in Thailand.I am very surprised BTS apologised.

[DP25]

I am not going to go into more detail, but I know the people involved. I know what happened. I know what the CCTV footage contained, and i know the victim was assaulted during a VERBAL argument. And I have sat reading the most disgusting comments about this incident, on here and on youtube.

If you payed attention to the woman who recorded the camera footage, you will know that she said she started filming after witnessing the assault.

Unfortunately even CCTV footage wouldn't convince some, as many apparently think that getting a verbal argument with a Thai is license for them to bash you upside the head.

And I regret reading some of the youtube comments, especially some of the Thai ones, some horrible comments and not just at this specific guy but all foreigners.

[Card]

Good point!! The balloons had to have been filled with helium, which is an inert gas. Guards totally in the wrong for stopping him. Wonder if anyone tried explaining this to the guards, or if they have even thought about it?

The guards are not in the wrong they are following the rules. There are signs that clearly say "no balloons" near the BTS stations.

I ride the BTS from Phrom Phong at least 5 days out of the week. This morning I went out of my way to look for signs stating that balloons are not allowed. None to be found, but I did find signs forbidding food, drink and something else, inside the turnstiles!

Care to meet me this afternoon and show me the signs? Oh better yet, let's make it tomorrow afternoon so you have time to go to MBK and have some made!

I think it says or means "no buffoons", but as we saw in the video, some people try to get away with taking buffoons onto the BTS.

[jerrybuice]

I agree 100% with the security officer. An arrogant white man thought he could get to bypass the posted rule about no ballons. No one said he was a terrorist but as the artical clearly explanes that IF a balloon was to bust if might scare a lot of people and in turn they might hurt themselfs trying to get away. I am a white American but I see the arrogance of some of us here in THEIR country. I think this whole "terrorist" thing is a scam anyways...especaily in the US....but the man was just doing his job and I respect that.

[Card]

I console myself with the thought that a lot of very, very disturbed and warped individuals are kept off Thailand's streets because they release theur hatred of their fellow man here on TV.

I am also happy that I ate donuts today because going through all 80+ pages of the 3 linked topics, I could not stop myself throwing up in my mouth over and over again.

I lived in and enjoyed Thailand (Bangkok) for 13 years and I'm now in another Asian country for 4 years, fortunately I have my memories and don't need to form my judgment over the country and it's people based on the vile excrement that the majority is spewing here. Not once in these 13 years have I met in person an individual that would impress me as so mean, self-loathing and subservient as the TV "hang em/guest here/makes us all look bad" mob. While the internet seems to bring out the most cancerous entrails of otherwise "normal" people, it also seems to be a means to control them by segregating them from the more humane population, by means of a computer screen and an internet cable.

If I have broken any TV rules with this post, come and break my facial bones with a hard object if you feel this is the appropriate response.

So what's your point?

[foxboy]

Another example of a Farang with a superiority complex in Thailand.

It doesn't matter what the rules or laws are, or how ridiculous they may seem.. you are not exempt just because you perceive yourself to be more intelligent, more wealthy or of a higher social status.

A week in jail would serve as a quick reminder what your social status is if you break the rules!