Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

[p_brownstone]

Whether there was a sign saying "No Balloons" is totally irrelevant.

The BTS Regulations clearly state Flammable materials are not allowed on the BTS System :

http://http://www.bts.co.th/customer/en/main.aspx

ข้อห้าม

ห้ามสูบบุหรี่ และนำวัตถุไวไฟ หรือวัตถุอันตรายเข้ามาในระบบรถไฟฟ้าบีทีเอส

There is no way there can be a sign at every BTS Station specifically listing ever item which is potentially flammable but clearly Balloons are so considered - rightly so since in Thailand they are often filled with Hydrogen.

And please don't come back with "but they are filled with Air - you can see that because they drop to the ground" because that is immaterial, the Guard is not authorised to make any decision about that, he has been told balloons are banned - end of story.

Patrick

i thought it said no gas filled balloons?

but if you're using the (very broad) flammable material ban as you've quoted, as a defence, then i guess everone should just board the bts naked...

It just says Balloons.

It's patently ridiculous to claim that the flammable material ban is too broad and expect a sign showing every possible inflammable material to be displayed at every Station - what about the sign that says "no animals" - would you expect a picture of every known animal in the world to be posted at every BTS Station?

The BTS has decided on their own list of what they consider potentially flammable and have included Balloons on the list because, as already mentioned, in Thailand they are often filled with Hydrogen.

An executive of the BTS has already specifically stated that Balloons are banned on the BTS system.

I am sure this and other more detailed lists of banned items is given to the Security Guards at their training sessions.

Guards at the Stations where Behan was earlier allowed to take his balloons forgot - or were not willing to follow - their training and according to Khun Anat of the BTS they have been disciplined.

At Phrompong the Security Guard remembered his training and quite correctly attempted to stop Behan and his balloons getting on the System, Behan refused to listen and arrogantly tried to push his way past - doubtless because he considered himself to be superior and not willing to listen to the explanation from a lowly Security Guard.

Patrick

Edited April 8, 2012 by p_brownstone

[nurofiend]

Whether there was a sign saying "No Balloons" is totally irrelevant.

The BTS Regulations clearly state Flammable materials are not allowed on the BTS System :

http://http://www.bts.co.th/customer/en/main.aspx

ข้อห้าม

ห้ามสูบบุหรี่ และนำวัตถุไวไฟ หรือวัตถุอันตรายเข้ามาในระบบรถไฟฟ้าบีทีเอส

There is no way there can be a sign at every BTS Station specifically listing ever item which is potentially flammable but clearly Balloons are so considered - rightly so since in Thailand they are often filled with Hydrogen.

And please don't come back with "but they are filled with Air - you can see that because they drop to the ground" because that is immaterial, the Guard is not authorised to make any decision about that, he has been told balloons are banned - end of story.

Patrick

i thought it said no gas filled balloons?

but if you're using the (very broad) flammable material ban as you've quoted, as a defence, then i guess everone should just board the bts naked...

It just says Balloons.

It's patently ridiculous to claim that the flammable material ban is too broad and expect a sign showing every possible inflammable material to be displayed at every Station - what about the sign that says "no animals" - would you expect a picture of every known animal in the world to be posted at every BTS Station?

The BTS has decided on their own list of what they consider potentially flammable and have included Balloons on the list because, as already mentioned, in Thailand they are often filled with Hydrogen.

An executive of the BTS has already specifically stated that Balloons are banned on the BTS system.

I am sure this and other more detailed lists of banned items is given to the Security Guards at their training sessions.

Guards at the Stations where Behan was earlier allowed to take his balloons forgot - or were not willing to follow - their training and according to Khun Anat of the BTS they have been disciplined.

At Phrompong the Security Guard remembered his training and quite correctly attempted to stop Behan and his balloons getting on the System, Behan refused to listen and arrogantly tried to push his way past - doubtless because he considered himself to be superior and not willing to listen to the explanation from a lowly Security Guard.

Patrick

but i thought on the list it was 'gas filled balloons' , not just 'balloons'?

anyway, i really don't care and i'm sick hearing about this story tbh.. i'm not copping out, i concede, fair enough no balloons, no flammables.

[animatic]

Actually air will catch fire in most conditions, guess no air should be allowed in the Skytrain.

Voyagers must be hermetically sealed and injected into the non-air BTS environment.

[Nisa]

Apparently my question is too difficult.

Or the question is completely irrelevant as pointed out a number of times. The signs are out there as can be attested to by the pictures and the many people who have confirmed see them in the past. Why in the heck would any of us remember exactly where they are hung beyond at some of the BTS stations??? Do an internet search and you will find mention of no balloons on the skytrain (w/pics) before this story broke. You'll probably also learn they aren't allowed on airplanes either but I cannot ever recall seeing a sign stating such at any airport I have been.

[luckyluke]

Maybe somebody in Bangkok should contact the management of the BTS to find out if balloons are allowed or not on the "Skytrain" as some posters challenge the word of the security guards and the pictures posted.

[Thaddeus]

Maybe somebody in Bangkok should contact the management of the BTS to find out if balloons are allowed or not on the "Skytrain" as some posters challenge the word of the security guards and the pictures posted.

After this nonsense the answer will be a resounding no they are not, before it it could probably have been errrm.

[Nisa]

Two, onsite BTS security guards couldn't ...

You mean that the Thai employees do not know what you are talking about and just tried to get rid of you? What a shock. That happens to me all the time in stores and supermarkets that actually have what I am looking for.

Or ... Do you think security wants to entertain some obsessed guy searching for balloon sings at the BTS after this incident??? As if security's job is to know the location of every sign at the stations. If somebody is going to obey there verbal commands regarding banned items because they don't see a sign then IMO these people shouldn't be allowed to ride the BTS anyway. What is ridership levels? Like, 1/2 million riders daily? And I doubt there has every been an incident of somebody forcing their way onboard against security order because there was no sign ... including this incident.

The main picture sign appears to also say no bikes but I see people taking them on the train a lot. However, even if there were no signs and somebody takes a bike onboard 364 days of the year and the 365th they are told they cannot .. it would be inexcusable to disobey security, react aggressively and physically force your way onto the skytrain. Common sense should tell people this response is not likely to end well.

Not saying the Irish guy deserved to get assaulted but seems to me he put himself in this position. It also isn't okay for people to rob people either but if you are walking around in the middle of the night in the worst part of town waving money around and daring people to try to take it ...

[Nisa]

Maybe somebody in Bangkok should contact the management of the BTS to find out if balloons are allowed or not on the "Skytrain" as some posters challenge the word of the security guards and the pictures posted.

If people are still challenging this, then I have a feeling Darwin's theory will soon catch up with these folks.

President of the Bangkok Mass Transit System (BTS) Arnat Arpapirom has already clarified this and explained why they were against the rules (security protocol).

Edited April 8, 2012 by Nisa

[Thaddeus]

Maybe somebody in Bangkok should contact the management of the BTS to find out if balloons are allowed or not on the "Skytrain" as some posters challenge the word of the security guards and the pictures posted.

After this nonsense the answer will be a resounding no they are not, before it it could probably have been errrm.

And I expect more signs are being printed as we speak.

[carra]

...I can't wait for this cctv to be released, let me make this clear I am not condoning behans behaviour, however I can understand the confusion, but I can never condone the violent assault by the guard just because he was questioned, and don't try and pretend he was in danger or other passengers were in danger which justified cracking a mans head open, because you know as well as i know that is just utter <deleted>.

Actually it is apparent to everyone, except yourself, that you have made up your mind. You have stated several times already that the guard was “100% wrong”.

I will give you the same suggestion I gave to Mr. Drummond (whcih he never responsed to). The next time you go through the public transposition security check point at an airport, anywhere in the world, get into a shouting match with the guards about your bottle of shampoo or tube of toothpaste being too big. Be sure to at some point attempt to barge through. See what happens.

TH

We are not talking about transport systems anywhere else in the world, we are talking about this one particular system and why one man was assaulted by guards.

[Nisa]

...I can't wait for this cctv to be released, let me make this clear I am not condoning behans behaviour, however I can understand the confusion, but I can never condone the violent assault by the guard just because he was questioned, and don't try and pretend he was in danger or other passengers were in danger which justified cracking a mans head open, because you know as well as i know that is just utter <deleted>.

Actually it is apparent to everyone, except yourself, that you have made up your mind. You have stated several times already that the guard was “100% wrong”.

I will give you the same suggestion I gave to Mr. Drummond (whcih he never responsed to). The next time you go through the public transposition security check point at an airport, anywhere in the world, get into a shouting match with the guards about your bottle of shampoo or tube of toothpaste being too big. Be sure to at some point attempt to barge through. See what happens.

TH

We are not talking about transport systems anywhere else in the world, we are talking about this one particular system and why one man was assaulted by guards.

And once again, we come back to an attitude that likely led the Irish guy down the path of problems this day that he could have been so easily avoided.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Nisa

[carra]

and you have proof of this attitude? Please let us see the proof that you had that this was caused by Behans attitude, or is this just specyulation on your part? again.

On another note I see you are still saying he is after compensation, I asked a few days ago for any link that shows that behan has asked for any comepnsation, I just flicked through the thread but fail to see a response to this, so I can ask you a direct question since it it seems to be you that keeps saying he is after compensation, can you provide me a link or any PROOF that Behan is asking for compensation?

a simple yes or no, with a link will do fine for me thanks, not misdirection and hyperbole, a simple yes or no, can you back up your claim that behan is pursuing compensation? I have not seen this link and would just like to see it.

[Nisa]

We are not talking about transport systems anywhere else in the world, we are talking about this one particular system and why one man was assaulted by guards.

And once again, we come back to an attitude that likely led the Irish guy down the path of problems this day that he could have been so easily avoided.

and you have proof of this attitude? Please let us see the proof that you had that this was caused by Behans attitude, or is this just specyulation on your part? again.

On another note I see you are still saying he is after compensation, I asked a few days ago for any link that shows that behan has asked for any comepnsation, I just flicked through the thread but fail to see a response to this, so I can ask you a direct question since it it seems to be you that keeps saying he is after compensation, can you provide me a link or any PROOF that Behan is asking for compensation?

a simple yes or no, with a link will do fine for me thanks, not misdirection and hyperbole, a simple yes or no, can you back up your claim that behan is pursuing compensation? I have not seen this link and would just like to see it.

Since I used the word "likely" I am not sure how anyone would think this is anything but speculation. As for why this is likely .. just take a look at the video. I highly doubt this guy would behave this way in his home country or at an airport. Having an attitude that you can act differently (as seen in the video) in following security orders in a Bangkok Transit is a problem (attitude) that will likely lead to trouble for yourself.

As for the compensation, I am sure you are very capable of finding the interviews with him and his wife where it is made clear they didn't file charges against the guard (also don't want guard fired) but they did file charges against the Guard company and BTS. These two entities could be monetarily culpable but about zero percent chance the companies could ever be criminally responsible over this incident. The wife also complains of not receiving compensation yet. Yes, if was your lackey, I can find you the links, but if you are following the info about this story, then I would think you would be aware of these interviews (major source of info related to this incident) and be capable of finding info on you own that you are curious about.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Nisa

[ginjag]

no condoms on skytrain, against the rules.

[ginjag]

no condoms on skytrain, against the rules.

Richard Branston could have a problem. This thread is way overdue to be deleted, nearly all posts and answers, getting boring. Interesting for a start then ending up dying a death. there is no F in balloons anyway-not now.

[Nisa]

no condoms on skytrain, against the rules.

Richard Branston could have a problem. This thread is way overdue to be deleted, nearly all posts and answers, getting boring. Interesting for a start then ending up dying a death. there is no F in balloons anyway-not now.

I have to agree .. and the fact you are having to quote your own posts to have an interesting conversation is further proof

[meand]

Incidentally, I have recently been watching the show "Brotherhood" and to no fault of Mr. Behan's, I have an even more solidified vision of the events that may have unfolded based on the show's Irish characters In all seriousness, if everybody that was posting here would go out and watch this show instead, it would be time much better spent So good.

[chrisinth]

Actually an armed law enforcement officer who has a college degree and military service under his belt along with both normal police training along with rescue, hostage and terrorist training to name a few.

How is he at handling balloon threats?

Dog trained to burst balloons......................

[chrisinth]

The other week I was asked to remove my belt, and laptop from my carry-on baggage at Bkk airport, which I did and had a great flight.

On the return leg, I started to undo my belt, but was told no need. I then started to take my laptop out of my bag; again told no need.

After reading this thread and the implications that are all the way through it that everything must be universal, I argued and insisted that they check my laptop and belt. I was asked to leave the airport and had a long taxi journey to my destination. I think security must have been reading this thread also, because I wasn't assaulted during the argument, but then again I didn't try to force myself onto the airoplane.

What has this got to do with the BTS? It is the same difference. My flight was by the same airline but different standards of security (by the same airline) were in effect at both ends.

Apart from being asked to leave the airport and getting the taxi, the rest is true!

[2unique]

and it continues...

Irish Teacher Breaks Silence On Skytrain Attack

PACK ATTACK!

TEACHER WAS NOT ATTACKED ONCE BUT FOUR TIMES - NEW STATEMENT

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/view-story-other.php?sid=529

[luckyluke]

There is a bad attitude from some people here in Thailand. One example :

There is in Pattaya a store middle of the town with a parking area. When a car enter the parking, security tell the driver where to park. Mostly this is ignored by the drivers(mostly"farangs") who park wherever it's suit them, taking sometime more than one park-place, or/and blocking the easy access to the shop entry. Of course they do that because the security have no kind of authority and they know nothing will happen to them.

Outside the store there is a main road where you can park easily but on alternative days, none of these guys who are "wild" parking inside, will park on the main road, where there is plenty of place, knowing police will come, put chains on the vehicle and they will to have pay a fine.

Sad mentality.

This is maybe what Mr. Behan was thinking : nothing can happen to me, security have no authority.

The action of Mr. Behan was stupid, the reaction of the security was more than stupid,

Something like this should not have happened if Mr. Behan had shown some respect and as mention before, if he felt ill-treated he should have complain to the BTS management.

This was my last post concerning this stupid case.

[balo]

Someone in here asked for a balloon sign and which station.

Don't worry , I will look for it and find it and post a picture of it here, but it's not that important is it .

All stations have "Flammable goods" signs, and as we all know , balloons can be flammable.

[Nisa]

and it continues...

Irish Teacher Breaks Silence On Skytrain Attack

PACK ATTACK!

TEACHER WAS NOT ATTACKED ONCE BUT FOUR TIMES - NEW STATEMENT

http://www.andrew-dr...her.php?sid=529

That story is actually kind of old (as this incident goes) but I don't remember the below account being bolded under the above heading before as it is now but very well could have been.

Attack one: Came after he (Behan) kicked over a waste paper bin ....

Attack Two: Came after Behan ... kicked one of them. (must be a separate kick than the one we see on the video)

Attack Three: Came after just (sic) as he (Behan) was about to board a train...(that he was told repeatedly he couldn't)

Attack Four: Came after he (Behan) wiped blood off himself with a guard's tie..

Edited April 8, 2012 by Nisa

[Thaddeus]

and it continues...

Irish Teacher Breaks Silence On Skytrain Attack

PACK ATTACK!

TEACHER WAS NOT ATTACKED ONCE BUT FOUR TIMES - NEW STATEMENT

http://www.andrew-dr...her.php?sid=529

That story is actually kind of old (as this incident goes) but I don't remember the below account being bolded under the above heading before as it is now but very well could have been.

Attack one: Came after he (Behan) kicked over a waste paper bin ....

Wrong, so so wrong, he was already bleeding from the head before that happened.

[Nisa]

and it continues...

Irish Teacher Breaks Silence On Skytrain Attack

PACK ATTACK!

TEACHER WAS NOT ATTACKED ONCE BUT FOUR TIMES - NEW STATEMENT

http://www.andrew-dr...her.php?sid=529

That story is actually kind of old (as this incident goes) but I don't remember the below account being bolded under the above heading before as it is now but very well could have been.

Attack one: Came after he (Behan) kicked over a waste paper bin ....

Wrong, so so wrong, he was already bleeding from the head before that happened.

His kicking over the garbage can happened before the video started. None of these reported attacks occur on the video. They are supposedly before and after the video showing him going nuts. These are supposedly from witness statement posted on a site (see above link) that appears to be clearly an advocate for the Irish guy and largely condemning security.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Nisa

[Thaddeus]

and it continues...

Irish Teacher Breaks Silence On Skytrain Attack

PACK ATTACK!

TEACHER WAS NOT ATTACKED ONCE BUT FOUR TIMES - NEW STATEMENT

http://www.andrew-dr...her.php?sid=529

That story is actually kind of old (as this incident goes) but I don't remember the below account being bolded under the above heading before as it is now but very well could have been.

Attack one: Came after he (Behan) kicked over a waste paper bin ....

Wrong, so so wrong, he was already bleeding from the head before that happened.

His kicking over the garbage can happened before the video started. None of these reported attacks occur on the video. They are supposedly before and after the video showing him going nuts. These are supposedly from witness statement posted on a site (see above link) that appears to be clearly an advocate for the Irish guy and largely condemning security.

Ok, for the very last time, the only video you, I, or anyone has seen, it has has already kicked off, and he is already bleeding from the head.

Which part of that do you not understand? ..... hold your hand up if you are blind, or hold your hand up if you are dumb .......... pick one.

[Nisa]

That story is actually kind of old (as this incident goes) but I don't remember the below account being bolded under the above heading before as it is now but very well could have been.

Attack one: Came after he (Behan) kicked over a waste paper bin ....

Wrong, so so wrong, he was already bleeding from the head before that happened.

. None of these reported attacks occur on the video. They are supposedly before and after the video showing him going nuts. These are supposedly from witness statement posted on a site (see above link) that appears to be clearly an advocate for the Irish guy and largely condemning security.

Ok, for the very last time, the only video you, I, or anyone has seen, it has has already kicked off, and he is already bleeding from the head.

Which part of that do you not understand? ..... hold your hand up if you are blind, or hold your hand up if you are dumb .......... pick one.

"His kicking over the garbage can happened before the video started"

Did you even read what you are replying to and/or read what you have posted above? A little less emotion and more calmness might serve you well. You posts make absolutely no sense. You are the one saying he was bleeding before he kicked over the garbage can but his kicking over the garbage can and the cause of his bleeding is not in the video because it happened before this video but you are stating, against every report (possibly even his own), that the blow to the head occurred before he kicked over the can.

http://www.andrew-dr...her.php?sid=529

From Behan's own words:

The first video (BTS Security Camera), he says

(Behan)

, shows the guard lunging at him without provocation and hitting him over the head. The most angry thing he did prior to the video already shown was to kick a rubbish bin.

Witness:

The Irish man kicked the waste bin, pushed the guard back and tried to escape from them. Two guys ran out from the information counter and boxed him many times.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Nisa

[Thaddeus]

Did you even read what you are replying to

Of course I read it, and I didn't jump to unlikely conclusions or racial stereotyping as some have.

[Nisa]

Did you even read what you are replying to

Of course I read it, and I didn't jump to unlikely conclusions or racial stereotyping as some have.

Then please explain your insistence that he was bleeding before he kicked the trash can or your need for the rude/sarcastic comments about "others" not understanding this. Am I missing something?

Witness

: A guard blocked them with a waste bin Behan used the ‘f ‘word in relation to the balloons not the guards but they may have misunderstood. ... The Irish man kicked the waste bin, pushed the guard back and tried to escape from them. Two guys ran out from the information counter and boxed him many times. ... What I saw was one of the guys from the information counter who punched him with his bracelet. Because of that the man’s left eye brow was cut deeply and bleeding badly too.

http://www.andrew-dr...her.php?sid=529

Edited April 8, 2012 by Nisa

[Thaddeus]

Did you even read what you are replying to

Of course I read it, and I didn't jump to unlikely conclusions or racial stereotyping as some have.

Then please explain your insistence that he was bleeding before he kicked the trash can or your need for the rude/sarcastic comments about "others" not understanding this. Am I missing something?

You are incredibly sensitive aren't you, and yes, you are missing something,