Should I Do It

[wana]

Lets do some math.......

$65.000 times exchange rate of 30 = 1.950.000 baht

divide with 3 years/36 months = 54.000 baht per month

IMO 30.000 baht per month is the minimum for a decent life here,

20.000 for basic expenses & 10.000 for gogo

btw most americans i know that live here in Pattaya makes less than 40.000 per month in pension

most americans in thai i would guess makes more than 40k a month

my neighbour is retired from the army , get 100k a month

i thought people in the private sector would get even more ?

[Trembly]

The problem as I see it is if he does love it in LOS.

His income will give him a livable life but no capital to establish himself and make something.

lot of life left at 45.

His income is not even truck money let alone condo or hobby farm money.

If he is happy renting and riding a bike I would say yes, but if he envisages something more then I would hold out a few years and get the nest egg that would make something more available.

USD 2000 a month is plenty to buy a truck on the knock. Most of the trucks you see on the road are driven out of the showroom with 25% down by people earning far less.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Trembly

[Trembly]

No one can know when you have really "had enough" -- maybe not even you. If you do decide to pull the pin --

I left a fairly high stress job at around 50, but that was when the retirement visa age was 55. So I had to do visa runs for 4 years. There is actually a positive side to that. Use your visa runs to visit around SE Asia -- not expensive is done 2nd class. A week in Laos can be pretty nice. Same in Cambo. Burma is changing. Malaysia has some nice areas.

If you decide on Thailand, resist the urge to settle in one spot too quickly. Resist the urge to buy a condo or build a house. Resist the urge to find a nice lady too quickly. Rent a serviced apartment on a short term basis. Try different cities. Find your comfort zone.

Also, since you are a vet, visit some of the VFW posts around the country, e.g. Chiang Mai, Korat, Udorn, (others?). Many of those guys have been here a long time and can offer selective advice. They will all hit you up to join.

If you decide that moving offshore was a mistake, you can probably find another job in the US. After all, you will have $ 2,000 plus your salary.

Stress can kill you.

Wise words.

[Jingthing]

I can see the issue with the limited capital, 65K USD, before pensions start kicking is a serious concern. I see there are big risks to quitting. But I don't think people are getting there are also big risks to ... staying. It would be a trick to make it those three years without income and not majorly depleting the 65K. I still think quitting may be the best option (that's obviously a personal decision) and perhaps living like a monk in Cambodia for three years. That makes him 48. Then move to Thailand, slide by on the ED visa for two years with the pension coming in making it easy and go from there, towards the retirement extension option at age 50. If the OP can get a low stress survival job, perhaps security related, and can hang on three years in the U.S. without spending down the 65K or spending it down much less, that's another path. There are probably 100 ways for this to succeed and easily as many ways to fail. The OP has a job now. If he quits, he will have a new job, figuring out how to make his new life work. No, it won't be easy especially those first three years. But if the current job is really intolerable, and it is quite easy to imagine that it is, I say ... choose life. As I said before, this seems to me a special case. In a normal job, I would agree with the cautious hang on longer advisers.

Later in life, if things go belly up in Thailand and the savings are gone (the OP will need SOME cash to qualify for the combo pension plus bank account retirement extension method) the OP still has pension streams that actually most Americans of his generation don't have. So he can run home later to the U.S., have an income, and medical care at age 65. So I don't see this as quite as dramatically suicidal as some people are painting it.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Jingthing

[GuestHouse]

Lets do some math.......

$65.000 times exchange rate of 30 = 1.950.000 baht

divide with 3 years/36 months = 54.000 baht per month

IMO 30.000 baht per month is the minimum for a decent life here,

20.000 for basic expenses & 10.000 for gogo

btw most americans i know that live here in Pattaya makes less than 40.000 per month in pension

The problem with doing the Math is it is not doing the whole Maths.

Each year of early retirement is a year in which you are not working and saving - Cash savings are not going up - Pension Contributions are not going up.

Having identified capital and income to be the two big risks then the finacnial calculation of when to leave needs to be a comparrison of total capital and pension rights for leaving early v total capital and pension rights for leaving in three years time. (or if you like, at each incremental year).

The trap that awaits people who get that calculation wrong is to run out of money, perhaps 3 or 4 years into early retirement and then find you nologner have the skills, contacts or employment currency to get back into work.

[4.real]

I never go to the bars and live in a quiet area of Pattaya.I play badminton and meet many people who also do not drink including well educated females.

I play golf occasionally .

I am quite happy here.

There is the xpats meeting and bridge clubs and quizzes in different places some tennis players play regularly if any of these are of interest.

I retired at age 48.

there is no stress [biggest cause of illness] here.

[bendix]

I never go to the bars and live in a quiet area of Pattaya.I play badminton and meet many people who also do not drink including well educated females.

I play golf occasionally .

I am quite happy here.

There is the xpats meeting and bridge clubs and quizzes in different places some tennis players play regularly if any of these are of interest.

I retired at age 48.

there is no stress [biggest cause of illness] here.

Whether you are happy here or not is not the point of discussion, but thanks for sharing it with us.

I would hazard a guess that you have signficantly more than zero savings to fall back on, should you need them. THIS is precisely what the OP is proposing - zero savings - and others are encouraging: to spend his entire life savings over the next three years, and then rely on pensions going forward.

I have no doubt that he can survive easily on his future pensions - no argument with that at all. What I am concerned about is him blowing his life-savings to do it three years too early.

$65000 is not a lot of money - It's only two million baht.

At the age of 48 he will have no cash reserves at all. He will, though, have 30 years life ahead of him. To be in that position would terrify me, but I admit I'm more risk averse than others.

[Shot]

No one can know when you have really "had enough" -- maybe not even you. If you do decide to pull the pin --

I left a fairly high stress job at around 50, but that was when the retirement visa age was 55. So I had to do visa runs for 4 years. There is actually a positive side to that. Use your visa runs to visit around SE Asia -- not expensive is done 2nd class. A week in Laos can be pretty nice. Same in Cambo. Burma is changing. Malaysia has some nice areas.

If you decide on Thailand, resist the urge to settle in one spot too quickly. Resist the urge to buy a condo or build a house. Resist the urge to find a nice lady too quickly. Rent a serviced apartment on a short term basis. Try different cities. Find your comfort zone.

Also, since you are a vet, visit some of the VFW posts around the country, e.g. Chiang Mai, Korat, Udorn, (others?). Many of those guys have been here a long time and can offer selective advice. They will all hit you up to join.

If you decide that moving offshore was a mistake, you can probably find another job in the US. After all, you will have $ 2,000 plus your salary.

Stress can kill you.

Wise words.

+1

[Jingthing]

I totally agree, if quitting, conserving as much of that 65K as possible needs to the top priority until the pension kicks in. But I think it is possible to conserve a decent portion of it. No, not easy. But once that hump is passed, it's a reasonable plan.

[bendix]

I totally agree, if quitting, conserving as much of that 65K as possible needs to the top priority until the pension kicks in. But I think it is possible to conserve a decent portion of it. No, not easy. But once that hump is passed, it's a reasonable plan.

But your answer to conserving it is to go and live like a monk in Cambodia, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the OP stated intentions. Advising him to go to Cambodia when he has clearly indicated he wants to leave the prison service and retire to Thailand, is like providing a recipe for chocolate chip cookie, when the OP asks for advice on how to roast a turkey.

[Swiss1960]

$65000 is not a lot of money - It's only two million baht.

At the age of 48 he will have no cash reserves at all. He will, though, have 30 years life ahead of him. To be in that position would terrify me, but I admit I'm more risk averse than others.

Completely agree with you! One single incident (accident, sickness, wife, more kids, theft...) and he will be completely broke... I could make my move now with around 15 Mio Baht after taxes, but I won't as I think it's just worth waiting three to five more years and be able to afford to buy a more decent condo (where I will spend most of my time) and not ever have to think about whether I can spend 600-800 Baht on a daily two hour massage... or go to eat in Central Festival places... or have my two pints at Mulligans... I KNOW that I will need around 100K per month for the next 40 years (if ever I survive that long...)

But if the OP knows and accepts all those risks (which have been outlined in various posts here) and can live that frugal and live with no reserves at all... then up to him...

[geriatrickid]

Stick it out another 2 years. That pension difference will make a big difference. Note too, that the Thai economy is due for an adjustment. People on here will most likely disagree, but the economic chickens are coming home to roost as energy costs increase. I anticipate interest rates to increase along with inflation in the next year. The extra 1-2% points will be a game changer for some. The world is now in an austerity phase for the next 5-10 years and you have to expect that costs will increase, but income will not. This is why I say the 2 years will make a difference. Also, I anticipate civil unrest. The insistence of Thaksin wanting to return without acknowledging some of his charges will cause problems. Throw in some other transitional attempts and it could be a difficult time for everyone.

I too would like to stop working, but I am 15 years away from a partial pension. I make several times your income and still file my taxes under my homeland. My tax rate is several times higher than yours. As I would go from wage earner to annuity or interest earner, my taxes would reduce, so the tax benefit of being a Thai resident wouldn't help me anyway. I mention this because it explains my bias in part.

I also have saved up a sizeable amount that technically I could stop working and live off of very nicely until pension time. The fact of the matter is that I am scared of not working. it's all I know. I think one needs a minimum 1million baht contingency fund, for a worst case scenario, Another reason for my bias. Would your health insurance as a state employee apply? Do you qualify for VA medical care in Thailand? In my case, my national health insurance plan doesn't apply, but my employers group health plan does and it is much more generous than the local Thai plans.

I had a colleague that buggered off at age 40 to do volunteer work. I asked him how he could do it and not worry. His reply was that we have a tendency to erect fences in our mind and think that we cannot escape, when we are in effect free men. I am a self caged man.

[Kwasaki]

It could be argued that suggesting the OP stay in that hell on earth job one minute longer than absolutely necessary is schadenfreude.

It could, but it wouldn't stack up.

In the states he has options to change it. By moving to Thailand with his current resources, he doesn't.

Again I repeat, encouraging someone to throw all their limited life savings away to be in Thailand without capital begind you - particularly at such a young age and in the emotional state he is in - is very very dangerous.

@ jingthing thanks for understanding how difficult the job can be..maybe you or someone close to you have had to walk in those shoes....

@bendix thanks very much for the passion of trying not to let someone that you dont even know make what you beleive could be a big mistake.........and about my emotional state....it is excellent...im just very anxious to start a new chapter of my life

" start a new chapter " A good friend of mine always said life can be like a really good book but you've got to live it, your way.

You have reminded me of building work we use to do in UK prisons.

The prison officers there were a great bunch, one in particular, I asked how did he like being locked up in prison, he laughed and said " Oh it's not so bad I can let myself out but it could easily be described as a sole destroying job " I said " Yeah dealing with some of these people can't be easy " interestingly he then said " Yes but I am very well read ".

I hope things work out good for you and you have made a start already by thinking things through.

I took a chance and threw caution to the wind like I have done most of my life and it's been a bit up and down but no regrets, I am someone who dots the " T 's " and crosses the " i 's ".

[banglay]

I know where you are coming from ...I spent 21 yrs doing the same job and I got out 10 yrs ago aged 45....and came out here at 50 and have not looked back since....ones physical and mental health will improve within 6 mth of leaving the job ...anyone who's not worked in that kind of environment will have no idea of the stress you go through on a daily basis.At the end of the daily it's got to be a personal choice for you.....but all I can say it was the right move for me .....but one bit of advice I'll give you is leave the job and live a stress free for a few month before making any life changing decisions ...a choice made while under stress is not always a wise one

What ever you do I wish you well

Take care

Edited March 27, 2012 by banglay

[Jingthing]

I totally agree, if quitting, conserving as much of that 65K as possible needs to the top priority until the pension kicks in. But I think it is possible to conserve a decent portion of it. No, not easy. But once that hump is passed, it's a reasonable plan.

But your answer to conserving it is to go and live like a monk in Cambodia, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the OP stated intentions. Advising him to go to Cambodia when he has clearly indicated he wants to leave the prison service and retire to Thailand, is like providing a recipe for chocolate chip cookie, when the OP asks for advice on how to roast a turkey.

I said there were 100 ways to do this and that is ONE of them. I am going by the assumption that for the OP getting OUT of that job is the top priority.

[bendix]

Fair enough, Jingthing.

Then I would suggest that the OP divides the issue up into two distinct subsets:

1) Should I leave the prison service and, if so, how do I make a living until my pension kicks in?

2) Should I retire to Thailand

There is no automatic rule that the two need to be causally connected. One is not interdependent upon the other.

[metisdead]

A nonsense troll post has been removed.

[JSixpack]

I totally agree, if quitting, conserving as much of that 65K as possible needs to the top priority until the pension kicks in. But I think it is possible to conserve a decent portion of it. No, not easy. But once that hump is passed, it's a reasonable plan.

But your answer to conserving it is to go and live like a monk in Cambodia, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the OP stated intentions. Advising him to go to Cambodia when he has clearly indicated he wants to leave the prison service and retire to Thailand, is like providing a recipe for chocolate chip cookie, when the OP asks for advice on how to roast a turkey.

I said there were 100 ways to do this and that is ONE of them. I am going by the assumption that for the OP getting OUT of that job is the top priority.

True. I liked the suggestion of working at a different job until the pension kicks in.

But it seems kinda strange coming over to Thailand 5 times a year--and nowhere else. I mean, like obsessive. Thailand's good but it's not THAT good. I could see coming over once a year.

Hence the obsession w/ Thailand may be amplifying the dissatisfaction w/ the job. I agree w/ Bendix about the unhealthy mental state. We all agree that the OP needs to keep that 65K rather than spend it down. Now, we're only talking about a few years. I understand working at a hated job. But there's a life after work, there are friends, there are holidays and vacations, and as JT pointed out, there are drugs.

[bendix]

[but it seems kinda strange coming over to Thailand 5 times a year--and nowhere else. I mean, like obsessive. Thailand's good but it's not THAT good. I could see coming over once a year.

I hadn't picked up on the five trips a year point. That just reinforces my view that the OP is not in the right frame of mind to make such a huge decision. It suggests an obsession to be here which is being reinforced by his hatred of his job, PLUS it persuades me that it is highly likely he will be here in perpetual holiday mode rather than retirement mode and - on his limited finances - that raises even more alarm bells in my mind.

Caveat - we can't know his mental or emotional state. We can only base our views on our limited understanding of his life through his posts and what he chooses to reveal.

[Jingthing]

Hey, this is thaivisa.com. Obsession with Thailand is the baseline here.

[rijb]

You've already made up your mind. Why are you wasting our time?

[IanForbes]

There has been a lot of good advice, but some of it is conflicting. That is because nobody really knows the OP and his dedication. There have been many studies to show that people who retire early, if they aren't enjoying their job, live longer than those that stick to the grindstone and work until they drop.

As many have pointed out, even though Thailand can be reasonably innexpensive to live, there ARE some drawbacks. One being that you can't truly own anything if you are a foreigner. I would never advise someone to use their savings up just to stay in Thailand. If you have a pension coming and can collect enough to live a reasonable life then it makes sense to stay until retirement age. In some cases you can retire early, but at a much lower rate. You'll have to figure what you can happily live on and leave a little extra for things that always happen. I am single and live quite nicely on 60,000 baht a month and have the time of my life, but I'm not having children or planning on buying a woman a fancy big home either. My three women all have low paying jobs that I subsidize and help them.

[balo]

Of course the OP can afford a good health insurance too, with 54000b/month.

So he will be covered if any accidents happens. Can't see any problems here, he just want to live like the rest of us.

[NaMah]

Of course the OP can afford a good health insurance too, with 54000b/month.

So he will be covered if any accidents happens. Can't see any problems here, he just want to live like the rest of us.

I think he mentioned that he was a federal worker so his pension will be accompanied by very good medical insurance for life.

[Misplaced]

Of course the OP can afford a good health insurance too, with 54000b/month.

So he will be covered if any accidents happens. Can't see any problems here, he just want to live like the rest of us.

I think he mentioned that he was a federal worker so his pension will be accompanied by very good medical insurance for life.

That would be true 10 years ago. Today the US gov't back tracked an looking to reduced all they can. I'll be surprise if all the gov't perks exists at all in the next few years. I wouldn't count on it. Din't expect anything else other than lies from the gov't did you?

[Jingthing]

Of course the OP can afford a good health insurance too, with 54000b/month.

So he will be covered if any accidents happens. Can't see any problems here, he just want to live like the rest of us.

I think he mentioned that he was a federal worker so his pension will be accompanied by very good medical insurance for life.

No, a state worker. Not a federal worker. Not the same.

[NaMah]

Of course the OP can afford a good health insurance too, with 54000b/month.

So he will be covered if any accidents happens. Can't see any problems here, he just want to live like the rest of us.

I think he mentioned that he was a federal worker so his pension will be accompanied by very good medical insurance for life.

That would be true 10 years ago. Today the US gov't back tracked an looking to reduced all they can. I'll be surprise if all the gov't perks exists at all in the next few years. I wouldn't count on it. Din't expect anything else other than lies from the gov't did you?

Ah, State worker. I see.

Edited March 27, 2012 by NaMah

[justcruisin]

A lot of information here for Joey to digest.

Thai fever= staying in a boring job and dreaming about the enjoyable times to be had in the last 25 visits to Thailand.(been there done that !)

The simple fact is that he has insufficient funds to retire anywhere, at the moment....

Just get out of the current job if its killing you and start something completely different.

Polishing boats in Florida is very lucrative at the moment, even Bill Gates hasn't the time to go sailing.

[tw25rw]

You are the same age as me and I can't imagine working in a prison at this time of my life (or any other to be honest)..I would get out asap and do some studies for something you can make some money from such as teaching or IT and have a long vacation getting your head right and thinking about the future. You could spend the colder months in Thailand and the summer months at home making some extra money until you feel it's time to move for good.

Oh please. The chances the OP is qualified to work in IT or teaching are slight. Also, long term maintaining two bases, the U.S.A. and abroad is going to be prohibitively expensive.

Like I said, do some studies.. And he wouldn't need 2 bases.

[tw25rw]

You are the same age as me and I can't imagine working in a prison at this time of my life (or any other to be honest)..I would get out asap and do some studies for something you can make some money from such as teaching or IT and have a long vacation getting your head right and thinking about the future. You could spend the colder months in Thailand and the summer months at home making some extra money until you feel it's time to move for good.

Oh please. The chances the OP is qualified to work in IT or teaching are slight. Also, long term maintaining two bases, the U.S.A. and abroad is going to be prohibitively expensive.

You are correct....I would not be good or qualified in those areas of work

They were 2 examples.. I'm sure you can do something other than what you are doing. It sounds like you are ready for a change of life. How about training to be an electrician? You could be you own boss and swan off for a few months when you felt like it..