Paradise Is Still Burning

[chiang mai]

I looked at the satellite map and both Burma and Thailand are contributing to the smoke.....

Heresy, you'll be burned at the stake for saying such.

[Latindancer]

I read in our weekly paper that the government (Bureau of Land Management) will have a prescribed burn next week in my area. One of the big advocates against smoke pollution is the government yet they burn. They want people to stop using our wood burning stoves because of the smoke yet they will burn thousands of acres of wildland. Typical government.

Rather like the Australian government making so much in the way of royalties from selling huge amounts of coal to the Chinese and Indians, yet seeming so concerned about global warming.

[thaibeachlovers]

I read in our weekly paper that the government (Bureau of Land Management) will have a prescribed burn next week in my area. One of the big advocates against smoke pollution is the government yet they burn. They want people to stop using our wood burning stoves because of the smoke yet they will burn thousands of acres of wildland. Typical government.

Rather like the Australian government making so much in the way of royalties from selling huge amounts of coal to the Chinese and Indians, yet seeming so concerned about global warming.

I saw on tv that the Aussies want to refine their rare earth in Malaysia or Indonesia or somewhere, and the locals were asking why, if it's so safe, they don't refine it in Australia!

[StreetCowboy]

I read in our weekly paper that the government (Bureau of Land Management) will have a prescribed burn next week in my area. One of the big advocates against smoke pollution is the government yet they burn. They want people to stop using our wood burning stoves because of the smoke yet they will burn thousands of acres of wildland. Typical government.

Rather like the Australian government making so much in the way of royalties from selling huge amounts of coal to the Chinese and Indians, yet seeming so concerned about global warming.

I saw on tv that the Aussies want to refine their rare earth in Malaysia or Indonesia or somewhere, and the locals were asking why, if it's so safe, they don't refine it in Australia!

"the Aussies" is a specific company, Lynas. Its quite a controversial topic in Malaysia at the moment, as I understand.

SC

[villagefarang]

They are still burning off the fields in anticipation of planting rice when the rain finally comes. This was last night.

[canuckamuck]

Yeah the smoke is creeping back in. Bring on the deluge please

[wana]

They are still burning off the fields in anticipation of planting rice when the rain finally comes. This was last night.

there is no way these fires can still be going unaccounted for ,someone must own the land and be paying someone to light these fires .......

i read a few weeks ago that police had banned the lighting of fires ,obviously havent enforced it anyway ........

there must still be some % of social acceptance to these fires or they would have stopped lighting them already

police could easily see fires on someones land at night and arrest the owner or at least give him a heavy fine so he doesnt want to do it again

[villagefarang]

They are still burning off the fields in anticipation of planting rice when the rain finally comes. This was last night.

there is no way these fires can still be going unaccounted for ,someone must own the land and be paying someone to light these fires .......

i read a few weeks ago that police had banned the lighting of fires ,obviously havent enforced it anyway ........

there must still be some % of social acceptance to these fires or they would have stopped lighting them already

police could easily see fires on someones land at night and arrest the owner or at least give him a heavy fine so he doesnt want to do it again

90% to 95% would be my guess in our village. Of course everyone knows who’s land is burning in the photo above, just as with every other fire that is lit. It is a small village so everyone knows everyone. There are no rich or powerful people involved here, just poor farmers.

I think everyone considers the immediate health hazard to be pointing a finger, not inhaling the smoke. So short of arresting the entire village, what are you going to do? Some people prefer the stick but perhaps a carrot might produce better results, assuming you can come up with the right carrot.

[wana]

They are still burning off the fields in anticipation of planting rice when the rain finally comes. This was last night.

there is no way these fires can still be going unaccounted for ,someone must own the land and be paying someone to light these fires .......

i read a few weeks ago that police had banned the lighting of fires ,obviously havent enforced it anyway ........

there must still be some % of social acceptance to these fires or they would have stopped lighting them already

police could easily see fires on someones land at night and arrest the owner or at least give him a heavy fine so he doesnt want to do it again

90% to 95% would be my guess in our village. Of course everyone knows who’s land is burning in the photo above, just as with every other fire that is lit. It is a small village so everyone knows everyone. There are no rich or powerful people involved here, just poor farmers.

I think everyone considers the immediate health hazard to be pointing a finger, not inhaling the smoke. So short of arresting the entire village, what are you going to do? Some people prefer the stick but perhaps a carrot might produce better results, assuming you can come up with the right carrot.

its hard to comprehend it properly without being there ,i dont know if burning is the best answer or not to these farming problems

if its been done that way forever ,that it will probably not change in our lifetimes

a carrot might work better ,but youre forgetting theres a shortage of carotts in thailand

the government are not just going to come around with boxes of cash and offer it to stop people burning (it just doesnt work that way here )

if burning produces more crops on the next yield ,how can you tell (poor farmers ) not to burn ?and more importantly .how can you make them listen ?

what carrott can anyone offer them ? where is it going to come from ?

[villagefarang]

With things getting bad again I thought it might be time for a bump. Sure enough, another year has passed and paradise is still burning.

[aTomsLife]

Thinking of heading down to BKK for some fresh air.

Compare with November.

[HeijoshinCool]

One aspect of the burning we can probably agree on is the neighbors next door really don't have to burn plastic beside my window...

In their world they do.

[HeijoshinCool]

With things getting bad again I thought it might be time for a bump. Sure enough, another year has passed and paradise is still burning.

Sorry for you, man. One reason I left CM.

It won't end in our lifetime.

[rene123]

With things getting bad again I thought it might be time for a bump. Sure enough, another year has passed and paradise is still burning.

Thank you for the bump. I never saw the original topic and thought it was a new one until I saw the replies. On a recent trip through the rural mountain country west of Chiang Mai I noticed a lot of haze but no actual burning. From what I read it is an ongoing problem with no government interest in solving it. People who are on the shaky edge of survival don't have the luxury of being environmentally concious or care too much about polution.

[villagefarang]

With things getting bad again I thought it might be time for a bump. Sure enough, another year has passed and paradise is still burning.

Thank you for the bump. I never saw the original topic and thought it was a new one until I saw the replies. On a recent trip through the rural mountain country west of Chiang Mai I noticed a lot of haze but no actual burning. From what I read it is an ongoing problem with no government interest in solving it. People who are on the shaky edge of survival don't have the luxury of being environmentally concious or care too much about polution.

Thanks rene123, this was one of those rare times when I copied one of my blog posts onto ThaiVisa. Sadly it will no doubt be equally relevant years from now. I wish I had answers or solutions but perhaps time is the only answer.

[Radar501]

Hello VF.

The last time I was up in Chiang Mai/Rai was December 2009 for two weeks. I don't think it was slash and burn season, yet I always had that bitter taste of smoke in my throat. For that reason, being an asthmatic, I haven't been back to the North since.

I am a sort of beach-bum gypsy, travelling up and down the coastlines of Malaysia and Thailand, where fisheries is the mainstay of many of the communities. I would have thought that professional fisherman respected and cared for the ecology of the waterways, given their dependency on a healthy marine environment. I am constantly shaking my head seeing the blatant sabotaging of the oceans by the fishermen, such as dumping diesel oil and consumer goods waste overboard, and the cutting free of damaged netting.

Just like it is in your part of the world, the only concern seems to be expedience and making a baht today, with not a thought for sustainability tomorrow.

I am not an environmental activist. That would drive me to my grave I think. Instead, I try to take a personal responsibilty for Mother Nature when I go for a stroll along the beach. By the end of my walk, I usually have an armful or bagful of nylon netting and rubbish that I pick up along the way. Sometimes, other people see what I am doing and join in. Maybe I am just causing them to feel a little guilty about the state of their beaches.

I know that the small amount of rubbish I pick up hardly makes any improvement in the overall context of things, but I know for sure it's not hurting.

So VF, please don't give up. With others of a similar midset, continue nagging away at the thought processes of the locals, and change for the better might occur. Slowly.

Radar.

[clockman]

When the tourists stop coming, because of pollution. Then things will change. Money is the only thing that matters!

[Doznotdiz]

Posted 28 minutes ago

When the tourists stop coming, because of pollution. Then things will change. Money is the only thing that matters!

Are you serious Mr Senior Member??? Since when do any of these farmers know anything about the tourism dollars in Thailand? What would happen? The Thai government goes visiting them and telling them not to burn because those nasty rich 'farangs' have stopped coming? Please!

[Andre0720]

Excellent post, VF, nothing much to add to that.

The sad reality is that the Planet is much more populated than 100 or 1000 yrs ago..It will get worse before it gets better...I remember a famous B. Marley song : ...Total destruction, only solution...

Sorry for being pessimistic, hope you get some rain soon up in the North

@ SC

Those chipping machines are not the solution, except for a little garden in the city, they are noisy, polluting, and they require labour and fuel.

Put your finger on the real reason- overpopulation, but of course nothing will be done about that till every inch of the planet is populated or cultivated.

Meanwhile, up in Lamphun, the police banned outside fires, so perhaps there is a glimmer of hope for the future.

Banned meaning illegal.

Just like going through red lights, using a phone while driving, not wearing a helmet, not having a driver's license, passing while crossing a solid yellow line, driving at 120 km per hour in densely populated areas, stopping and blocking a whole lane while going to buy cigarettes at a 7-11, not remaining on the scene of an accident???

Well, banning should solve a problem in this world....

[rene123]

I hate to say it, Andre, but you are right. I don't see it changing any time soon. Canada has opened its borders to many Asians and they've brought their lack of respect for the environment with them. In BC alone I see it all the time on the beaches that get over harvested of illegal, under sized crabs, clams and oysters. Anything that is remotely edible gets killed and eaten. Because of the corruption of police forces back in the countries they came from they don't trust or obey the laws of Canada.

[theajarn]

Well, it's pretty much obvious that there's nothing that can be done. It's like wishing for world peace.

But that doesn't mean we can't talk/dream about solutions to the problem either. But cheers for pointing out that the situation is a hell lot more dire than most of us ever could have ever imagined it to be anyways.

Perhaps the title to this essay should be "Paradise WILL ALWAYS Burn". Seems more fitting.

Edited March 16, 2013 by theajarn

[Gerald14]

Well looks like the Thai Government does not care about pollution. They have the power to fine the firebugs, but could not care less, although it could be a nice income for the state. I live in a village and have seen constantly that people will burn the rubbish next to the rubbish bin........???? Brain dead I say after thay complain about flooding etc, caused by global warming. I just keep my windows closed and the air condition on. That's all

[MagicMax]

Plastic is recyclable and in Phuket I have a lady who comes and picks up all my glass, cardboard and plastic. She earns her living doing this and is very grateful. Don't understand why people have to burn it.

[Chittychangchang]

Everyone should keep pigs to eat all the scraps distributed by the factories weekly.
Everyone should use the pig poo to make methane gas and supply free power.

Just like everyone in the world should have a solar panel or a wind turbine.

Alternative energy rules.

Will it happen? Token gestures at the moment! Maybe in 100 years if the planet hasn't followed suit with Mars.
CCC

[nevets]

We in Phetchaburi dont have the problem of the north and n/east, but things still get burned off , rice and sugar will get burned off after and the corn stalks the long stuff is animal feed.

There are fires that start on the mountains they are allways smoking this is started by the sun, we are in a vally so maybe the wind blows it up and away either way i am glad we dont have the problem that VF has.

In the isaan aria i am thinking there are vast amount of land growing rice and if this is burned off as thay do here then the smoke must be realy bad.

I read VF OP and found it very good he is an exelant wordsmith.

[fxe1200]

On my blog I tend to steer away from news events or the more sensationalized aspects of Thailand. Therefore I have been avoiding the burning problem except in passing comments. Finally I realized that it had become a pervasive part of my life and was affecting everything I do and don’t do.

To help relieve the fatigue and frustration of being confined to an air-conditioned room I finally broke down and wrote about the burning. It helps sometimes to purge ones muddled mind and put things down on the page. I am glad some of you approve of what I wrote and I appreciate your comments.

Great essay, no doubt. But as you said in your last sentence: "Nothing will happen."

[Potosi]

Here's a schematic map of the Isaan

And here a sattelite picture

Ahead of the Chiang Mai area by some years. What's producing this degree of deforestation? Can't blame poverty, the folks in Laos and Cambodia are poorer. The population of Isaan is higher than of Laos and Cambodia combined, but no match in density for the Netherlands or England which are as green as it gets.

[rene123]

Everyone should keep pigs to eat all the scraps distributed by the factories weekly.

Everyone should use the pig poo to make methane gas and supply free power.

Just like everyone in the world should have a solar panel or a wind turbine.

Alternative energy rules.

Will it happen? Token gestures at the moment! Maybe in 100 years if the planet hasn't followed suit with Mars.

CCC

That is actually not a bad idea. I have a friend in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia. He bought a one acre plot of land that was totally brushed over. He spent a lot of money on fencing and then bought some pigs. Within one year the pigs had completely cleaned the land of vegetation. He then butchered all but a breeding pair of pigs.

[MILT]

Thank for the "likes" ronniem, Carib and David48. And wouldn't you know, theblether would be the only one to comment.

there probably a lack of comments because nobody knows what to say .........its a problem ,which hopefuly in thai style will go away

if ignored for long enough ,a bit like the floods,until it happens again

for the people who live in bkk and pattaya ,they probably dont realise the extent of whats happening because they are not overly affected by it

thai people in bkk watched the floods on the news in ayudaya but didnt care too much until it was alledgedly coming to bkk

to be honest ,i live in bkk and i woudnt even know theres a problem in chiang mai unless i read it here

thais with full time jobs probably dont have as much time to spend reading online as i do and even if they knew ,its one of those times where everyone

knows somethings wrong ,but nobody knows what to do about it

in times like this the thai just sits back and says "khao pad ka pow ! " and just accet it and hope it will go way by itself

My wife says she doesn’t really think about it much because she knows she can’t do anything about it. In her words you just can’t change other people. All you can do is learn how to cope.

So I get that it was therapeutic to voice your thoughts on this smoke story. It's always nice and feels good to be popular I get it.

My wife and I were recently fined 15,000 baht because one of our staff had lit a rice stubble pile. (Even though they were told NO BURNING. Someone called it in and there was a police response to put the fire out. So the laws are being better enforced and are having effective results. More so than last year (which was extremely bad). So although it isn't fixed yet, does not mean nothing will happen to stop the smoke. This year is the first year that I actually see enforcement of this fire ban. Village burning is entirely a different can of worms. So you see I still have hope for the TV posters as I do for the Thai people and the ritual habit of burning.

[MILT]

Here's a schematic map of the Isaan

And here a sattelite picture

Ahead of the Chiang Mai area by some years. What's producing this degree of deforestation? Can't blame poverty, the folks in Laos and Cambodia are poorer. The population of Isaan is higher than of Laos and Cambodia combined, but no match in density for the Netherlands or England which are as green as it gets.

Great Point!