Suicide Tourism

[autan]

This is actually one of my more serious posts so please bear with me on it.

I was talking to a bloke from Manchester the other day about moving to Thailand. He told me he had a similar idea. A little confused I asked him what he meant so he went on to say :

"I am not working until I am 70 years old, so that I can get a pittance a week in pension. I cant afford a private pension and so I am going to save £50 a week and go to Thailand, live the Life of Reiley for a few years and look to do some indoor barbecueing.".

I asked him if he was serious and if so why Thailand.

He replied "I want to have some fun before I go and I dont like the idea of being destitute in old age".

He was actually looking forward to ending it all this way. He has got around 30 years to go so dont panic just yet.

Is Sucide Tourism such a bad idea. If you are determined to end it all, then why not give your last hard earned cash to the Thais and get a simple burning ceremony. Surely it is better than squandering the resources of your national health service, if the country you live in has one.

I am very open minded on this, but what do you think, good idea or bad idea, good for Thailand or bad for Thailand.

[necronx99]

I think it's a great idea.

The problem is one of execution. All this raining bodies business around highrises is just dangerous.

Clean quite evapatoriums are whats needed. sort of a soilent green solution (without the eating people bit)

[Swiss1960]

Why should anybody panic (maybe except his family members...)? It is a basic human right to end one's own life when one feels it's time to do so... just some religious fools think you might end in hell when you do so... but hell on earth can be worse... so the only thing I expect from somebody who is about to commit suicide is to do it in a decent manner like drowing in the sea or in the bathtub after emptying few bottles of single malt and NOT jump off a highrise causing a mess and endangering others... I said it in another thread, I would commit suicide if ever I would be terminally ill...

But for your friends idea, I don't think he'll do it, cause when the time arrives, one does not just stand there and say "hey, I am broke, now I kill myself"... it takes much more than that

Finally the main question, is it bad for Thailand? Yes, of course it is bad for Thailand, even thought basically it has nothing to do with Thailand, and I don't understand why these cases always make the news... here in Switzerland, suicides tend not to make it to the newspapers, for one not to give examples to others and for two not to give a bad reputation to the country. I would think that also in Thailand, time will come when there will be a common understanding between all media to not any more report about suicide attempts by foreigners in order to protect the reputation of country.

[wamberal]

Anybody contemplating suicide to end their life should spare a thought for the poor unfortunates who have to clean up after them.

[IanForbes]

Good post, Swiss 1960. So is the OP's topic.

I have a great life right now and I'm still acting like I'm 30, but I'm 72 and KNOW my time is limited... even though I am in reasonably good health "right now". But, when the time comes when I'm only a drain on the economy and my children's life then I will have no qualms in ending it. But, it won't be from a highrise swan dive or a media making jump off some bridge. There are drugs you can take that ends it quickly and effficiently and without pain. Many elderly in pain just ask the doctors to increase the dosage of their pain medicine. I was there when my mother asked to nurse to increase the medicine she was on. They asked her if she knew what she was asking and she nodded yes. An hjour later she had passed away. My father just stopped eating and dried up to a point where he couldn't remain alive.

We are ALL going to have to face the ending at some point. Why make it painful?

[Berkshire]

Why should anybody panic (maybe except his family members...)? It is a basic human right to end one's own life when one feels it's time to do so... just some religious fools think you might end in hell when you do so... but hell on earth can be worse... so the only thing I expect from somebody who is about to commit suicide is to do it in a decent manner like drowing in the sea or in the bathtub after emptying few bottles of single malt and NOT jump off a highrise causing a mess and endangering others... I said it in another thread, I would commit suicide if ever I would be terminally ill...

But for your friends idea, I don't think he'll do it, cause when the time arrives, one does not just stand there and say "hey, I am broke, now I kill myself"... it takes much more than that

Finally the main question, is it bad for Thailand? Yes, of course it is bad for Thailand, even thought basically it has nothing to do with Thailand, and I don't understand why these cases always make the news... here in Switzerland, suicides tend not to make it to the newspapers, for one not to give examples to others and for two not to give a bad reputation to the country. I would think that also in Thailand, time will come when there will be a common understanding between all media to not any more report about suicide attempts by foreigners in order to protect the reputation of country.

Agree that ending one's life is a personal decision and we should have that option, but that it could be bad for Thailand in a PR sense (and you're right, it has nothing to do with Thailand). If Thailand were to allow doctor-assisted suicide, which I think is one of the most humane things society can do, they would be roundly criticized by the developed world. I know countless people who have relatives ravished with disease, just waiting to die. Nothing humane about that. Allowing physician-assisted suicide would allow these folks to pass with dignity, and in the presence of family if they so choose. This could be a cottage-industry in Thailand and rather progressive in my mind. But as you say, it would have to be carefully controlled and marketed due to its ghoulish nature. Euthanasia is a controversial subject,mostly due to the religious right. But if someone was bent on taking their own life, it would seem better for all if they could do in a sterile and controlled environment, under the guidance of a trained physician.

[edwinclapham]

Personally I dont think that Thailand is ready for this type of "cottage industry" !

At this time I am happy leaving it to the Swiss

[loong]

Why should anybody panic (maybe except his family members...)? It is a basic human right to end one's own life when one feels it's time to do so... just some religious fools think you might end in hell when you do so... but hell on earth can be worse... so the only thing I expect from somebody who is about to commit suicide is to do it in a decent manner like drowing in the sea or in the bathtub after emptying few bottles of single malt and NOT jump off a highrise causing a mess and endangering others... I said it in another thread, I would commit suicide if ever I would be terminally ill...

But for your friends idea, I don't think he'll do it, cause when the time arrives, one does not just stand there and say "hey, I am broke, now I kill myself"... it takes much more than that

Finally the main question, is it bad for Thailand? Yes, of course it is bad for Thailand, even thought basically it has nothing to do with Thailand, and I don't understand why these cases always make the news... here in Switzerland, suicides tend not to make it to the newspapers, for one not to give examples to others and for two not to give a bad reputation to the country. I would think that also in Thailand, time will come when there will be a common understanding between all media to not any more report about suicide attempts by foreigners in order to protect the reputation of country.

Agree that ending one's life is a personal decision and we should have that option, but that it could be bad for Thailand in a PR sense (and you're right, it has nothing to do with Thailand). If Thailand were to allow doctor-assisted suicide, which I think is one of the most humane things society can do, they would be roundly criticized by the developed world. I know countless people who have relatives ravished with disease, just waiting to die. Nothing humane about that. Allowing physician-assisted suicide would allow these folks to pass with dignity, and in the presence of family if they so choose. This could be a cottage-industry in Thailand and rather progressive in my mind. But as you say, it would have to be carefully controlled and marketed due to its ghoulish nature. Euthanasia is a controversial subject,mostly due to the religious right. But if someone was bent on taking their own life, it would seem better for all if they could do in a sterile and controlled environment, under the guidance of a trained physician.

I totally agree with what you say. I would certainly like to have this option if/when I am seriously ill and to continue living could be worse than death's release.

I can't really see this happening here though. I don't know if suicide is actually against the law, but imagine that assisting a suicide probably is.

Difficult to find anyone to put down a suffering dog, so not sure that it would be easy to find a doctor to assist a suicide

[GuestHouse]

Euthanasia is a controversial subject,mostly due to the religious right.

Euthanasia is a controversial subject mostly because of its association with Eugenics and that fact that it was put into practice by the Nazis on an industrial scale. But let's not blame only the right, the British Fabians did much the early work that gave rise to the Nazi Eugenics and Euthanasia thinking.

The religious debate around Euthanasia is one largely relating to morality, the value of life, the responsibilities of the individual in society/family/relationships and the responsibility of family/friends and society to the individual. That suicide is not a choice that only impacts the individual and that it has far reaching impacts on the core of society, family and the very personal relationships we all have.

Feel free to trot out the 'I blame religion mantra' if it helps you place issues you do not understand in a box so you can put them to one side and forget about them.

[KeyserSoze01]

Great opportunity for TAT to promote Thailand as the suicide hub of the world..

Package deals available for a low, all inclusive price of 2900 baht. For that you get a short time with a bar girl or boy (depending on yoru proclivity), a few shots of Sang Som, then a bonk on the head and off to the ovens with you.

If these down and out folks had a quick, easy and affordable way to punch their ticket, there might be fewer moaners around.

[robblok]

Why should anybody panic (maybe except his family members...)? It is a basic human right to end one's own life when one feels it's time to do so... just some religious fools think you might end in hell when you do so... but hell on earth can be worse... so the only thing I expect from somebody who is about to commit suicide is to do it in a decent manner like drowing in the sea or in the bathtub after emptying few bottles of single malt and NOT jump off a highrise causing a mess and endangering others... I said it in another thread, I would commit suicide if ever I would be terminally ill...

But for your friends idea, I don't think he'll do it, cause when the time arrives, one does not just stand there and say "hey, I am broke, now I kill myself"... it takes much more than that

Finally the main question, is it bad for Thailand? Yes, of course it is bad for Thailand, even thought basically it has nothing to do with Thailand, and I don't understand why these cases always make the news... here in Switzerland, suicides tend not to make it to the newspapers, for one not to give examples to others and for two not to give a bad reputation to the country. I would think that also in Thailand, time will come when there will be a common understanding between all media to not any more report about suicide attempts by foreigners in order to protect the reputation of country.

Agree that ending one's life is a personal decision and we should have that option, but that it could be bad for Thailand in a PR sense (and you're right, it has nothing to do with Thailand). If Thailand were to allow doctor-assisted suicide, which I think is one of the most humane things society can do, they would be roundly criticized by the developed world. I know countless people who have relatives ravished with disease, just waiting to die. Nothing humane about that. Allowing physician-assisted suicide would allow these folks to pass with dignity, and in the presence of family if they so choose. This could be a cottage-industry in Thailand and rather progressive in my mind. But as you say, it would have to be carefully controlled and marketed due to its ghoulish nature. Euthanasia is a controversial subject,mostly due to the religious right. But if someone was bent on taking their own life, it would seem better for all if they could do in a sterile and controlled environment, under the guidance of a trained physician.

I totally agree with what you say. I would certainly like to have this option if/when I am seriously ill and to continue living could be worse than death's release.

I can't really see this happening here though. I don't know if suicide is actually against the law, but imagine that assisting a suicide probably is.

Difficult to find anyone to put down a suffering dog, so not sure that it would be easy to find a doctor to assist a suicide

I agree.. in Holland where i am from its easier to get Euthanasia then here. But im sure if i really wanted to there would be some drugs to buy to end it all. There is enough information about that on the internet. I believe the right to die is mine and of course id make sure that the ones who find me are pre warned. No need to shock some people.

[CaptHaddock]

The problem with a long term plan like this is that the fellow in question believes he knows how he will feel when he is 70 and out of money, but otherwise in ok health. But he doesn't know how he will feel and the weight of evidence is that he will not want to go at the time since most people that age do not blithely commit suicide as a solution to their financial problems, although certainly some do. I have known people who talked like this and I found them just to be people who are too lazy or incompetent to plan their futures effectively.

[robblok]

Euthanasia is a controversial subject,mostly due to the religious right.

Euthanasia is a controversial subject mostly because of its association with Eugenics and that fact that it was put into practice by the Nazis on an industrial scale. But let's not blame only the right, the British Fabians did much the early work that gave rise to the Nazi Eugenics and Euthanasia thinking.

The religious debate around Euthanasia is one largely relating to morality, the value of life, the responsibilities of the individual in society/family/relationships and the responsibility of family/friends and society to the individual. That suicide is not a choice that only impacts the individual and that it has far reaching impacts on the core of society, family and the very personal relationships we all have.

Feel free to trot out the 'I blame religion mantra' if it helps you place issues you do not understand in a box so you can put them to one side and forget about them.

I am pretty sure most relegions have some kind of punishment written down in their "fairy tail" books. So yes religion is to blame for this.

The morality of it is quite simple, if i want to die its my right. Why would i live on for others if i don't want to. Of course you would have to discuss this with your loved ones and make sure that whoever finds you does not get a shock. Its actually quite sad that you have to hide and because of it often confront others with it. But we got religion to thank for that. They love to force their idea's upon others and put it in law.

[robblok]

The problem with a long term plan like this is that the fellow in question believes he knows how he will feel when he is 70 and out of money, but otherwise in ok health. But he doesn't know how he will feel and the weight of evidence is that he will not want to go at the time since most people that age do not blithely commit suicide as a solution to their financial problems, although certainly some do. I have known people who talked like this and I found them just to be people who are too lazy or incompetent to plan their futures effectively.

Actually its just a plan like any other. You might not aprove of it but its a plan to say its not a plan is crazy. If its the best plan that remains to be seen. Your argument about he might feel different at that age is a valid one but invalid at the same time because with all plans things can change.

[samsiam]

Miracle suicide Hub......where anyone can be well hung.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

New Hub!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

dam_n.. same thought at the exact same time..

[GuestHouse]

I am pretty sure most relegions have some kind of punishment written down in their "fairy tail" books. So yes religion is to blame for this.

You mean you are pretty sure religion is to blame for this. You might want to do some background reading on the subject - I suggest you go to the source documents (fairy tale books if you like).

The morality of it is quite simple, if i want to die its my right. Why would i live on for others if i don't want to. Of course you would have to discuss this with your loved ones and make sure that whoever finds you does not get a shock. Its actually quite sad that you have to hide and because of it often confront others with it. But we got religion to thank for that. They love to force their idea's upon others and put it in law.

It is not as simple as that, there is and there always will be the inevitable - Cui Bono?

[robblok]

I doubt Thailand will offer euthanasia as they don't even want to put dogs to sleep who are terminal ill. So don't expect this to happen anytime soon.

[robblok]

I am pretty sure most relegions have some kind of punishment written down in their "fairy tail" books. So yes religion is to blame for this.

You mean you are pretty sure religion is to blame for this. You might want to do some background reading on the subject - I suggest you go to the source documents (fairy tale books if you like).

The morality of it is quite simple, if i want to die its my right. Why would i live on for others if i don't want to. Of course you would have to discuss this with your loved ones and make sure that whoever finds you does not get a shock. Its actually quite sad that you have to hide and because of it often confront others with it. But we got religion to thank for that. They love to force their idea's upon others and put it in law.

It is not as simple as that, there is and there always will be the inevitable - Cui Bono?

(Mark 3:28-29 KJV) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

All other sins can be forgiven. However, anyone contemplating suicide may be in danger of going to Hell, as their relationship with the Lord is not intact at that point. Those who would consider suicide may have a severed relationship with Christ and therefore they would enter the real Hell--which is worse than the hellish feelings they are experiencing at the moment.

Also please remember that int he past suicide cases could not be buried on holy ground. So yes they are against it.

Guesthouse you sound like one of those religious nuts defending something that cannot be defended. Forcing your beliefs on others. I don't say you have to kill yourself but you tell me i can't. Religion is limiting my free choice.

[Tywais]

A post with a link to suicide methods has been removed. Let's not be commenting or supplying links to suicide techniques. Think next time about the ramifications before giving out ideas like that.

[robblok]

A post with a link to suicide methods has been removed. Let's not be commenting or supplying links to suicide techniques. Think next time before giving out ideas.

Tywais.. do you really think that people who want to die cant find those links themselves. Its a pretty big decision im sure once you make it you research things well and find those links with ease. Its not like they are well hidden. While i understand your will to keep Thaivisa clean its in fact a vain effort.

[Tywais]

A post with a link to suicide methods has been removed. Let's not be commenting or supplying links to suicide techniques. Think next time before giving out ideas.

Tywais.. do you really think that people who want to die cant find those links themselves. Its a pretty big decision im sure once you make it you research things well and find those links with ease. Its not like they are well hidden. While i understand your will to keep Thaivisa clean its in fact a vain effort.

Of course they can but Thaivisa is NOT going to be the place to do it or responsible in even a small part for assisting. So moderation discussion completed, back on topic.

[GuestHouse]

(Mark 3:28-29 KJV) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

All other sins can be forgiven. However, anyone contemplating suicide may be in danger of going to Hell, as their relationship with the Lord is not intact at that point. Those who would consider suicide may have a severed relationship with Christ and therefore they would enter the real Hell--which is worse than the hellish feelings they are experiencing at the moment.

Also please remember that int he past suicide cases could not be buried on holy ground. So yes they are against it.

Guesthouse you sound like one of those religious nuts defending something that cannot be defended. Forcing your beliefs on others. I don't say you have to kill yourself but you tell me i can't. Religion is limiting my free choice.

Well done Robblok - can you tell me where in your quotation from the book of Mark that it says Suicide is a sin? I know you've posted some other text there, but I have no idea where that came from or what it's authenticity is to the book of Mark - Do you?

I note too that you mention in the past suicide cases could not be buried on holy ground - seems like another quotation and seems to accept the fact that right now 2012 suicide victims are buried on holy ground - If this is the case then surely not the evidence you are looking for.

Again I urge you, back to the source documents.

[samsiam]

Oh look....theres a link.....might give that a try....

[robblok]

(Mark 3:28-29 KJV) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

All other sins can be forgiven. However, anyone contemplating suicide may be in danger of going to Hell, as their relationship with the Lord is not intact at that point. Those who would consider suicide may have a severed relationship with Christ and therefore they would enter the real Hell--which is worse than the hellish feelings they are experiencing at the moment.

Also please remember that int he past suicide cases could not be buried on holy ground. So yes they are against it.

Guesthouse you sound like one of those religious nuts defending something that cannot be defended. Forcing your beliefs on others. I don't say you have to kill yourself but you tell me i can't. Religion is limiting my free choice.

Well done Robblok - can you tell me where in your quotation from the book of Mark that it says Suicide is a sin? I know you've posted some other text there, but I have no idea where that came from or what it's authenticity is to the book of Mark - Do you?

I note too that you mention in the past suicide cases could not be buried on holy ground - seems like another quotation and seems to accept the fact that right now 2012 suicide victims are buried on holy ground - If this is the case then surely not the evidence you are looking for.

Again I urge you, back to the source documents.

You know as well as i do that this is the interpretation. Also the fact that before people would not be buried on holy ground support my claim that my interpretation is right. I am pretty sure you can find enough spots still where suicide victims wont be buried. I am also sure that if you ask the pope you will hear its a sin. Just look how hard they fight against euthanasia.

If your book was so clear people would not be killing for it. Its purposely written in a way that is multi interpretable so it can be used better to control the masses. You are setting me an impossible task. People kill for this book because its easy to twist around. People like you defending it the same way Muslims defend their book not willing to accept those books are used for evil.

[GuestHouse]

Guesthouse you sound like one of those religious nuts defending something that cannot be defended. Forcing your beliefs on others. I don't say you have to kill yourself but you tell me i can't. Religion is limiting my free choice.

A couple points:

I'm not promoting any beliefs here, let alone forcing them on anyone - I am pointing out that absurdity of the anti religion arguments being made here. They are clearly groundless nonsense.

I've not anywhere said you can't kill yourself - I've gone as far as to ask you to tell me where it says in the books of fairy tales that you cannot kill yourself - It seems you cannot find such a prohibition. I'm not telling you you can't kill yourself, neither is he book of fairy tales. You've been thinking too mut.

And a paradox.

Religion, all religions, address the central issue of life, its meaning, how to live a good life, how to deal with life's adversities and indeed how to deal with life's blessings.

Perhaps this is the problem - Not that religion (take your pick, any religion you like) tells us not to kill ourselves, rather religions guides us in how to live.

[robblok]

Guesthouse,

Let me state that the Vatican represents a large part of christian religion.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P7Z.HTM

Then in that page written by the vatican itself it states

We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us.

It is not ours to dispose of

Clearly prohibits suicide. That is how THE authority on Christianity interprets the book.

So i think i have proven my point.

[GuestHouse]

You know as well as i do that this is the interpretation. Also the fact that before people would not be buried on holy ground support my claim that my interpretation is right. I am pretty sure you can find enough spots still where suicide victims wont be buried. I am also sure that if you ask the pope you will hear its a sin. Just look how hard they fight against euthanasia.

If your book was so clear people would not be killing for it. Its purposely written in a way that is multi interpretable so it can be used better to control the masses. You are setting me an impossible task. People kill for this book because its easy to twist around. People like you defending it the same way Muslims defend their book not willing to accept those books are used for evil.

Robblok, can you tell me were I have made claim to any particular religious affiliation, that any book is my book or that I follow any particular book.

My last post I suggested (take your pick, any religion you like). You might want to assume I follow a particular religion, unfounded assumption seems to be one of your strengths but remember - you have no basis for those assumptions, no matter that clinging onto them so hard helps bolster your own prejudiced views.

As for religion and wars/killing - Almost all wars have been caused by the politics of greed, envy, hunger for power or revenge - Few have truly religious roots and as if to drive the point home, the 20th century gave us wars and conflicts that killed more people than have been killed in all the wars throughout the whole of the preceding human history. The 20th century wars were wars of political ideology, economics, greed, envy and that hunger for power - Religion conspicuous by its absence from the causes.

[GuestHouse]

I think Robblok, it might be an idea for you to stop looking for evidence of what Relgion says about Suicide and start looking at what it says about living life. As I say, pick your religion and go to the source documents - the books of fairy tales if you like.

Ignoring religion throughout life and then being concerned about what it has to say at the end of life seems to me to be a very odd thing.

If you truly believe religion to be simple fairy tales why would you suddenly care about it at the end of your life?

Forget it, live and die as you wish and stop looking for a scape goat for the doubts you seem to be having.

Edited April 6, 2012 by GuestHouse