Thailand Really Likes Old Western Guys

[endure]

Don't know why but everyone calls me uncle Trans

[transam]

Don't know why but everyone calls me uncle Trans

Whats my Mrs doing in Phuket ?

[arthurwait]

Don't know why but everyone calls me uncle Trans

Whats my Mrs doing in Phuket ?

And what's mine doing laughing at her ?

[transam]

Don't know why but everyone calls me uncle Trans

Whats my Mrs doing in Phuket ?

And what's mine doing laughing at her ?

WOW, thought mine was ugly. Think we must meet up for a beer to see where we went wrong eh.

[arthurwait]

And what's mine doing laughing at her ?

WOW, thought mine was ugly. Think we must meet up for a beer to see where we went wrong eh.

[IanForbes]

What happens in Pattaya (plus 3 more tourist places) does not reflect on foreigner behaviour in the majority of Thailand.

I doubt if there are even a dozen foreigners living in my province (Nan), let alone louts treating Thai women badly.

If you choose to live in a sewer, then you can expect to encounter rats.

I agree with you, but Pattaya and places like it are all many foreigners see in Thailand. Yes, I have spent some time in Nan and I can't recall seeing another farang during the time I was there. Of course, I spent most of my time riding my bike in the lovely hills to the north east. I've never seen so much construction in what seemed to be a deserted city. More than a few of us commented on it. I'm always treated with respect in the small villages and cities away from tourist centers.

[manarak]

Thailand Really Likes Old Western Guys

I'm only 38 and whenever I visit the countryside, I am given royal treatment by just about everybody.

Ok, except from the odd guy here and there that hates foreigners for some reason, but these are less than 1%.

I try to give back as much as possible of course, but sometimes the care I am subject to indisposes me.

I am always deeply touched by the attention and can't express how much I like and respect the good Thai people.

Thank you

[harryfrompattaya]

I will stick my neck out here and say the older and more blue collar you are, the more you enjoy Thailand.

I will bet you are a rig pig. I know, it's OK. I am feeling psychic tonight.

Actually I am related to the Queen of England on my grandmothers side of the family. I still have two tuxedos in my closet next to a dozen hand painted ties. I don't use them much any more. I keep waiting for Ian to invite me to a black tie event.

We have a lot in Common I am the Queen of England hope to see you at my Brithday.

PM I will pick your families airfare

[Beetlejuice]

I will stick my neck out here and say the older and more blue collar you are, the more you enjoy Thailand.

I will bet you are a rig pig. I know, it's OK. I am feeling psychic tonight.

Actually I am related to the Queen of England on my grandmothers side of the family. I still have two tuxedos in my closet next to a dozen hand painted ties. I don't use them much any more. I keep waiting for Ian to invite me to a black tie event.

We have a lot in Common I am the Queen of England hope to see you at my Brithday.

PM I will pick your families airfare

There are far too many old queens in England for my likein, especially around the Kings Cross area around midnight.

[IanForbes]

Glad the mods have allowed us to have a little fun here as well as the more serious answers. Some people don't have the ability to tell which is which.

There is one thing that happens when you stay a member here for a while. Eventually, you get to see the REAL person under the mask. And, one's perception of Thailand changes after a while. However, it's still a persons personal attitude towards life that usually shows in their replies to various topics. There's almost always two valid points of view to every topic.

[ExpatOilWorker]

I will stick my neck out here and say the older and more blue collar you are, the more you enjoy Thailand.

This comment stopped me in my tracks abit and set me thinking. Does this comment seem logical? If so, why?

The guys who have walked the factory floors of the Western world all seem do do well in Thailand. They enjoy a sense of freedom and respect here they never had back home. Soon they put their technical skills and practical talent to good use, build a dream house, try a bit of hobby farming, fix a car, etc.

Blue collar also seem to have a bit thicker skin to overcome the small neisance in a new environment and great social skills to the informal way Thais interact.

[Berkshire]

A lot of the reason families in 'real Thailand' do things more as a group is because they don't have enough money to do things alone. Most of those young people would be out with their friends instead of hanging out with mom and her farang boyfriend if they had the cash to go and do anything.

That's a rather cynical view and I don't believe entirely accurate. You may be using too much western perspective here. In America, most teenagers don't want to be seen with their parents, let alone hang out with them. Thais really enjoy being with family and it's refreshing to see. Many adult Thais still live with their parents. Before you say it's about saving money (which it probably is in many cases), I know a filthy rich young man and his wife who still lives with his parents. I asked him why he hadn't moved out and his answer was, "why?" I really admire this aspect of Thai society.

[Misplaced]

Love the topic - Thanks KerryK

On this forum, I typically find my self constantly defending Thai way of life from the so-called Thai bashers of their "over-exaggerated truth" comments. Sometimes the stories are just seems to be over the top and many posters just goes along with the story line and add to the nonsense . TODAY I actually find my self smiling after reading your post and thinking "Isn't that the truth". Finally a terrific original post that make sense.

In America - my young adult niece and nephew don't want to hang out with their old 45' ish uncle unless It's the holidays and they have no choice.

In Thailand - my young mid 20'ish relatives can't wait to come pick me up so they can hang with their laid-back polite cousin. If I get 1 day alone it would be a miracle. It sure feels good to be wanted

[Gweiloman]

I am living here and my son just spent 6 months here. I am older and he is in his mid 20's.

I have to correct the title to - Thailand Really Likes Western Guys.

That puts you at about half the age of your Thai partner. You've turned the tables on everyone with this

edit: I presume however that you're female?

No, I am a man and my Thai wife is only 13.5 years younger than me.

My apologies. I misread your post, thinking that your son was your wife's son - one of those blond haired moments (not that I'm blond). Sorry, not making sense to myself either

[xthAi76s]

Gentlemen, I think some of you have the right idea about the end result ('deep respect' for the elderly), but I'm not so certain that you have the correct reason for this perceived respect. Of course, perhaps the reasons behind it are not important to many older people.

There is CERTAINLY evidence the world over (to varying degrees, of course) of the erosion of this kind of family bond or respect for the older, and there is good reason for this, imo. Do I believe that people should be universally respected (irrespective of age)? Yes, I do. Do I believe that older people should universally garner more respect than younger people? Of course not. Why would that ever make sense?

Well, it has made sense because in times past, there were certain conditions that were assumed to be true.

1) The assumption was that an older person had more *useful* knowledge than those younger and this was at a time when knowledge was indeed important to survival.

2) People were very much dependent on family units because, at least in part, there was no social welfare or law and order to protect them from various harms.

What's true about Thailand and many other developing cultures? Well, one thing is that 97% of the country is still dirt poor and certainly not able to choose to be independent. So, there is a tendency to give out default respect to older people irrespective of any evaluation of an older individual's accomplishments in life or his or her useful knowledge. And, like someone else said, if you are helping to *bankroll* or * subsidize* someone's or many people's lives, or if there is an assumption that you are doing so (say, because you are White and living retired in Thailand), you may find that many people seem to *respect* you. Another thing that's true in Thailand is that there is almost no social welfare at all and the legal system is still in its infancy as Thailand slowly navigates a feudal society into modernity. So, again, of course there will be a tendency to give default additional respect to the older and elderly.

However, what I don't like at all, and I think some of you should be wise enough to consider this, is that there is an inherent problem in such a system of default respect for older people. What you get is a place ... like Thailand - where people rely far too heavily on this arbitrary measurement of a person's true worth to the world. The vast majority of people in these situations, in my guesstimation, would have not done so much in their lives to actually *earn* the respect had their younger friends/family/associates had the luxury of independence and societal protection like social welfare to think for themselves and come to more personalized conclusions as to an older person's true place in the world.

So, unfortunately, I think for you older guys who think it's great that you are respect so much more in a developing country (3rd world at present, imo), it is sadly ironic that the very structure you enjoy is the structure that probably in it's current, very old-world, rigid form is the structure that needs to change quite radically for the people you hold so dear -- The Thais -- to move on to more prosperity and a fairer more enjoyable society -- just like in other, more developed parts of the world.

You have to think more about why things are the way they are, and it helps sometimes to work from a default assumption that we humans in every corner of the world are more similar than we are dissimilar and that we largely desire the same fundamental things out of life. If you work from an assumption like this, you analyze these differences between West and East and Rich country vs Poor country with a little more depth and understanding of the underlying causes.

But, hey, none of this is reason not to enjoy your place in the society (whether earned or not), but please don't just walk around thinking that it's so great that you happen to be in the position. There are reasons for everything.

[barrybankruad]

Current Old World rigid form? Needs to change, so that Thais can move on to a more prosperous, fairer and enjoyable society. Nonsense. Look at many richer countries where respect for elders has become completely eroded, and see just what sort of a social mess they are in. The rich prosperous class in Thailand are the ethnic Chinese, their respect for their elders and ancestors is probably stronger that most other Thais. China will soon becme the World's leading economy, I'm sure they still respect their elders as they have done in the past. Why are there so few old age homes in Thailand. Because the Thais would not dream of shunting their elderly relatives into a home and forgetting about them, as so often happens in the 'prosperous' West.

[TommoPhysicist]

However, what I don't like at all, and I think some of you should be wise enough to consider this, is that there is an inherent problem in such a system of default respect for older people. What you get is a place ... like Thailand - where people rely far too heavily on this arbitrary measurement of a person's true worth to the world. The vast majority of people in these situations, in my guesstimation, would have not done so much in their lives to actually *earn* the respect had their younger friends/family/associates had the luxury of independence and societal protection like social welfare to think for themselves and come to more personalized conclusions as to an older person's true place in the world.

Modern western society is a failed experiment, young people have no respect for anything, everyone just thinks of themselves. Yet people keep spouting the same old dogma about freedom, when what they really mean is freedom to do whatever they like with no though of everyone else and no responsibility for their actions. The experiment has failed, the youth culture of the west has had its day. Capitalism is dead or dying.

The family unit is all, obligation to your elders is all. Thailand has it right, the west has it wrong.

Edited April 7, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[xthAi76s]

I'm just at a loss for how you both can justify blind respect and honor towards people who have not necessarily earned it? Is it that your standards are lower or is it that most of us just haven't evolved past that arbitrary, somewhat ridiculous paradigm? Why do family members 'always' get preferential treatment, and why do older people 'always' get preferential treatment? I see absolutely no logic in this at all.

As far as modern society getting it wrong... Wow, not so sure about that one either. Unfortunately, you can't 'cherry pick' features you want as freely as we would all like. Certain societal features are likely to come with others. For example, increase freedom generally comes with increased ability to make huge mistakes that effect larger and larger issues. However, would you remove the freedom just to prevent the inevitable mistakes? I wouldn't. Would you, for example, re-segregate the world (racially) in light of the difficulties faced in the social experiment that is the USA, or would you take all the almost innumerable social and economic advances that have resulted?

As far as the Chinese, yes, what you say is true with one likely exception, in my estimation, that we will have to live to see play out. Sociologist used to say the same thing about the tightness of the Japanese family unit and their devout respect for elders. However, alas there are signs that with their more modern lifestyle and societal pressures, this kind of thinking is being eroded. Is it a Western phenomenon? I'm not so sure, but I don't think so. Again, try to assume, if you can agree in principle, that we humans are not so different underneath the superficiality of culture/language/religion/etc. We'll certainly have to see where Thailand is in this regard when it is a rich, busy country with some of the same pressures (perhaps multicultural and economic) that come with prosperity.

At any rate, I respect your positions, but I just don't think the logic for them stands to criticism.

One last thing, as to your comment about Thais not putting people in homes, yes, they tend not to do that which is nice for their family members. Of course, again, as I said, there is no social welfare here, and, perhaps also relevant here is that there is a different understanding of personal life responsibility in many countries. Why should a family be expected to take care of other members? Can anyone answer that with an answer based in logic, or anything other than 'feeling from the heart' or religious reasons ... about what is right? I doubt it. My understanding of the world is that I would not ever expect to be able to make my problems in old age someone else's problem and not even (or perhaps especially not) my family members whom ostensibly I care about. One could argue that such a system of expected help is inherently far more selfish than the *Western/more modern* counterpart system of placing more responsibility on individuals for their personal welfare.

Just some food for thought.

Edited April 7, 2012 by xthAi76s

[xthAi76s]

Tommo --

You are apparently pretty critical of the Capitalism and the (what I will call *advances*) it has made. You'd likely have to be fairly critical of of the major social revolutions as well since they are no doubt linked.

How can say, however that they have failed when you undoubtedly benefit every waking day. I could ask you any number of personal questions about your life and link most every major answer to how you have benefited from the very things you denounce.

I'd like to know how you fund your existence (here in Thailand, assuming you live here)?

What is your ethnicity?

Are you male or female?

What is your lifestyle like in Thailand as compared to your home country (assuming you are not native-born Thai)?

[IanForbes]

xthAi76s brings some valid points to the discussion, but I sure would hate to try and pronounce his/her name.

Thais are taught as children that anything an adult says is the gospel truth. That continues right through school. With that type of education it curbs creative thinking, but it makes for a happy family unit. They can be conned and manipulated by their elders and leaders in society. They become pawns in a game of feudalism. Feudalism has been going on for centuries. That is how the ancient kings kept their peasants under control, and religious orders such as the Vatican kept the public in the dark of what was really going on. The ancient Stonehenge was just a big clock and it's actual use was kept hidden by those that wanted to keep the knowledge for themselves. Those with more knowledge than others have always been held in higher esteem and given added benefits. It is always been a game of power and who holds the most of it. Leaders in EVERY country want to keep their population stupid so they are easily manipulated. The internet has been the bane of the modern leaders in every country. That is why North Korea basically banned it. They don't WANT to let their populace know what is happening in the rest of the world. There are some similarities in Thailand that we are not allowed to talk about.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Gentlemen, I think some of you have the right idea about the end result ('deep respect' for the elderly), but I'm not so certain that you have the correct reason for this perceived respect. Of course, perhaps the reasons behind it are not important to many older people.

There is CERTAINLY evidence the world over (to varying degrees, of course) of the erosion of this kind of family bond or respect for the older, and there is good reason for this, imo. Do I believe that people should be universally respected (irrespective of age)? Yes, I do. Do I believe that older people should universally garner more respect than younger people? Of course not. Why would that ever make sense?

Well, it has made sense because in times past, there were certain conditions that were assumed to be true.

1) The assumption was that an older person had more *useful* knowledge than those younger and this was at a time when knowledge was indeed important to survival.

2) People were very much dependent on family units because, at least in part, there was no social welfare or law and order to protect them from various harms.

What's true about Thailand and many other developing cultures? Well, one thing is that 97% of the country is still dirt poor and certainly not able to choose to be independent. So, there is a tendency to give out default respect to older people irrespective of any evaluation of an older individual's accomplishments in life or his or her useful knowledge. And, like someone else said, if you are helping to *bankroll* or * subsidize* someone's or many people's lives, or if there is an assumption that you are doing so (say, because you are White and living retired in Thailand), you may find that many people seem to *respect* you. Another thing that's true in Thailand is that there is almost no social welfare at all and the legal system is still in its infancy as Thailand slowly navigates a feudal society into modernity. So, again, of course there will be a tendency to give default additional respect to the older and elderly.

However, what I don't like at all, and I think some of you should be wise enough to consider this, is that there is an inherent problem in such a system of default respect for older people. What you get is a place ... like Thailand - where people rely far too heavily on this arbitrary measurement of a person's true worth to the world. The vast majority of people in these situations, in my guesstimation, would have not done so much in their lives to actually *earn* the respect had their younger friends/family/associates had the luxury of independence and societal protection like social welfare to think for themselves and come to more personalized conclusions as to an older person's true place in the world.

So, unfortunately, I think for you older guys who think it's great that you are respect so much more in a developing country (3rd world at present, imo), it is sadly ironic that the very structure you enjoy is the structure that probably in it's current, very old-world, rigid form is the structure that needs to change quite radically for the people you hold so dear -- The Thais -- to move on to more prosperity and a fairer more enjoyable society -- just like in other, more developed parts of the world.

You have to think more about why things are the way they are, and it helps sometimes to work from a default assumption that we humans in every corner of the world are more similar than we are dissimilar and that we largely desire the same fundamental things out of life. If you work from an assumption like this, you analyze these differences between West and East and Rich country vs Poor country with a little more depth and understanding of the underlying causes.

But, hey, none of this is reason not to enjoy your place in the society (whether earned or not), but please don't just walk around thinking that it's so great that you happen to be in the position. There are reasons for everything.

Very good and eye opening post, especially what you later add about Japanese society. Some great observations here and lots of food for thoughts. Totally agree.

[ayayay]

thailand really likes old guys with fat wallets

So why am I liked then? My wallet is a hair above flat.

maybe, because, even though by your standards it is flat, but you probably have more than 190 USD/per month, and if that is true, you are already richer than a lot of thai peasants.

$197.25 a month!!!!!

nah, you are lying, and you know that

[farang000999]

You have to love all the people who claim Thailand is superior to the West. I guess that is why the per capita income in Thailand is a tiny fraction of the per capita income of the West. The only reason why most farang are here is because they won the birth lottery. Otherwise they would be in a village somewhere scratching their sunburn

However, what I don't like at all, and I think some of you should be wise enough to consider this, is that there is an inherent problem in such a system of default respect for older people. What you get is a place ... like Thailand - where people rely far too heavily on this arbitrary measurement of a person's true worth to the world. The vast majority of people in these situations, in my guesstimation, would have not done so much in their lives to actually *earn* the respect had their younger friends/family/associates had the luxury of independence and societal protection like social welfare to think for themselves and come to more personalized conclusions as to an older person's true place in the world.

Modern western society is a failed experiment, young people have no respect for anything, everyone just thinks of themselves. Yet people keep spouting the same old dogma about freedom, when what they really mean is freedom to do whatever they like with no though of everyone else and no responsibility for their actions. The experiment has failed, the youth culture of the west has had its day. Capitalism is dead or dying.

The family unit is all, obligation to your elders is all. Thailand has it right, the west has it wrong.

This is the biggest load of BS I think I have ever read on Thai Visa.

[maxme]

I don´t think his theory is that farfetched. Living in the west means keeping up the pace and there is almost no time to enjoy the well earned money. Although the respect issue has cons here in Thailand as well, the Thai teachers are abusive in some cases even though there is a law against it.

Edited April 7, 2012 by maxme

[David006]

Respect for elderly or old or even middle age exists in many cultures..more so in eastern and Asian countries. Unfortunately for some reason it fading out .....or so I read.

OP's observation in Thailand rings true in the rural areas for sure..... a definite combination of respect and a bit of fascination methinks...of course if the old fella is totally devoid of any charisma that might not be the case.

My wife automatically took over the role of wheelchair pusher and entertainment/comfort host to my old Dad at a wedding in Canada.

.......................seemed some Canadian guests were upset about being denied the opportunity, judging by some dirty and quizzical looks...lol

............wife was amazed that ".......nobody else want to take care?"

[farang000999]

The older gentleman are very smart for finding and choosing to live in Thailand. However, I do not understand you people thus come to the conclusion that Thailand is superior to the West. The reason why a Westerner can live a good life style here is because it is a backwards Banana Republic run by crooks.

As for respect, Thais have very little respect for human life. They respect elders because there is a very important system of social hierarchy which aims to keep the peasants in line. If Thais respect the elderly so much, why haven't they come up with a sytem of social welfare such as Social Security? Why is there no minimum standard of living? Why are there no property taxes? Why aren't income taxes collected? Why isn't there very much wealth redistribution? Why can police officers murder someone in the middle of a crowdy room without recourse? Why isn't there any freedom of speech? Why isn't there due process? Why aren't there school buses?

You guys should stop slamming the West and thank god that you won the birth lottery.

[TommoPhysicist]

You guys should stop slamming the West and thank god that you won the birth lottery.

Good point about the birth lottery, but you failed to point out, that lottery is now over.

If you are over 55 and from the west, you have had a very good chance of winning that lottery, those younger can forget it.

That is why I claim the system in the west has failed, it was never sustainable.

But even though I was one of the lucky winners (private pension of 10,000bht a month), winning that lottery was hard work for over 30 years, and never much fun. As a farmer previously in th the west, and currently in Thailand, I can tell you life is much more fun, much more rewarding and much less of a relentless hard slog.

Once you get a bit older you will realize, that money doesn't count for everything, in fact it counts for almost nothing.

I'm willing to bet Steve Jobs, mega rich, mega successful, died at 50 and lived a miserable life.

Edited April 7, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[kerryk]

The older gentleman are very smart for finding and choosing to live in Thailand. However, I do not understand you people thus come to the conclusion that Thailand is superior to the West. The reason why a Westerner can live a good life style here is because it is a backwards Banana Republic run by crooks.

As for respect, Thais have very little respect for human life. They respect elders because there is a very important system of social hierarchy which aims to keep the peasants in line. If Thais respect the elderly so much, why haven't they come up with a sytem of social welfare such as Social Security? Why is there no minimum standard of living? Why are there no property taxes? Why aren't income taxes collected? Why isn't there very much wealth redistribution? Why can police officers murder someone in the middle of a crowdy room without recourse? Why isn't there any freedom of speech? Why isn't there due process? Why aren't there school buses?

You guys should stop slamming the West and thank god that you won the birth lottery.

I have to think you don't speak Thai and/or don't know any bright educated Thais who speak English. Because if you asked anyone who knows Thailand very well you would have your questions answered. I would answer them but this forum is not the place for that kind of discussion. Sound bites are about the best one can do.

[maxme]

The older gentleman are very smart for finding and choosing to live in Thailand. However, I do not understand you people thus come to the conclusion that Thailand is superior to the West. The reason why a Westerner can live a good life style here is because it is a backwards Banana Republic run by crooks.

As for respect, Thais have very little respect for human life. They respect elders because there is a very important system of social hierarchy which aims to keep the peasants in line. If Thais respect the elderly so much, why haven't they come up with a sytem of social welfare such as Social Security? Why is there no minimum standard of living? Why are there no property taxes? Why aren't income taxes collected? Why isn't there very much wealth redistribution? Why can police officers murder someone in the middle of a crowdy room without recourse? Why isn't there any freedom of speech? Why isn't there due process? Why aren't there school buses?

You guys should stop slamming the West and thank god that you won the birth lottery.

I have to think you don't speak Thai and/or don't know any bright educated Thais who speak English. Because if you asked anyone who knows Thailand very well you would have your questions answered. I would answer them but this forum is not the place for that kind of discussion. Sound bites are about the best one can do.

Depends how you define educated. An education from Chulangkorn or Thammsat won´t cut it but people who have traveled and are looking on Thailand with an objective mind are usually the enlightened ones. You could have "educated" people who scream Thaksin all day long and that does not make them educated in my mind but then again we have some westerners who behave exactly the same.

I do think that we all have a reason for coming here, not much as same as the other but our own special reason for it. Although my hopes are that Thais will one day enjoy the same money and opportunities like us westerners I think many farangs that come here don´t care how bad some Thai lives and why should they, they get cheap beer, living, food and girls.

[kerryk]

The older gentleman are very smart for finding and choosing to live in Thailand. However, I do not understand you people thus come to the conclusion that Thailand is superior to the West. The reason why a Westerner can live a good life style here is because it is a backwards Banana Republic run by crooks.

As for respect, Thais have very little respect for human life. They respect elders because there is a very important system of social hierarchy which aims to keep the peasants in line. If Thais respect the elderly so much, why haven't they come up with a sytem of social welfare such as Social Security? Why is there no minimum standard of living? Why are there no property taxes? Why aren't income taxes collected? Why isn't there very much wealth redistribution? Why can police officers murder someone in the middle of a crowdy room without recourse? Why isn't there any freedom of speech? Why isn't there due process? Why aren't there school buses?

You guys should stop slamming the West and thank god that you won the birth lottery.

I have to think you don't speak Thai and/or don't know any bright educated Thais who speak English. Because if you asked anyone who knows Thailand very well you would have your questions answered. I would answer them but this forum is not the place for that kind of discussion. Sound bites are about the best one can do.

Depends how you define educated. An education from Chulangkorn or Thammsat won´t cut it but people who have traveled and are looking on Thailand with an objective mind are usually the enlightened ones. You could have "educated" people who scream Thaksin all day long and that does not make them educated in my mind but then again we have some westerners who behave exactly the same.

I do think that we all have a reason for coming here, not much as same as the other but our own special reason for it. Although my hopes are that Thais will one day enjoy the same money and opportunities like us westerners I think many farangs that come here don´t care how bad some Thai lives and why should they, they get cheap beer, living, food and girls.

There are a lot of people who have both degrees from Thailand and the West. Thousands of people.

You wrote, “An education from Chulangkorn or Thammsat won´t cut it.”

You opened the door. OK Mr Scholar. Where were you educated and when did you graduate and with what degrees?

I will evaluate your credentials and let you know if you are qualified to make a judgment about Chulangkorn or Thammsat.