Construction Labor Costs 2012

[sirineou]

Back in Thailand again, stayed away a little longer than I wanted duet to work, but I finally made it back Yeaaa.

Pleasantly surprised to see the Tunnel finally finished and all the new Home improvement mega stores existing and going up.

But a little disappointing to see how prices are going up, especially as it applies to Construction and land coasts.

I know there is an other recent thread on labor costs, and I did tried to do a search, but I got hundreds of returns on "labor Costs isaan) got everything that contains the word, labor, cost and isaan, ,tried it a few different ways, and way too many returns, I would need to spend the rest of my time here in Thailand to scan trough them to maybe find the info I need. so in addition to labor costs, any info on how to find info in this forum would also be appreciated, or links to relevant treads.

As I said I am disappointed at the rising cost of living, and decided to start building soon as apposed to waiting a couple of years, closer to retirement.

Have Land a few minutes outside KKC, 50 m deed by 32 m wide, Sister in law has a small house on one side, and we will build a small home on the other side so that sister in-law can keep an eye on it when we are not there. First project is remove a couple of trees, , clean a lot of junk accumulated,build a perimeter fence, and fill a little dirt to make property more level and smooth.A couple of guys that I talked to wanted 2,000 bht for the day, I of course politely declined. What should I be offering with out offending any one. Also what are the current Labor only costs for a perimeter about 2 m high about 160 linear Meters.

I appreciate all comments.

[Sydneycraig]

Minimum wage @ 300 a day?!

[147SAG]

Minimum wage @ 300 a day?!

A lot still work for 200 baht for unskilled labour a day.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[oxymoron]

Labour costs in Chiangmai/Maeon area are still 250 Baht /day for skilled block layer, renderer. That's the least of your worries my fences 15 years ago, retaining 1m and 1.8m above ground level cost 1000 Baht per meter and thats when 'din blocks were 2 Baht each and 'poon,cement 95Baht a 40Kg bag, cannot remember cost of 'sam hun,3/8 inch steel used. But bought some 4x2 "C section" steel last month and it was over 4x what I paid for that used in the house 15 Years ago.

If retaining use concrete 200mm thick to the ground level and then blocks, NOT the thai way of "din blocks" in the 2metre panels, they bow out after a few years.

[sirineou]

Thank you for the replies so far,

Today I met with a builder from the village that my father in law introduced me to.After I explained to him what I wanted, 114 m long, 1.7 m high and some other specifications, he said that he wanted to f see how much his help wanted for pay, but he thought that it should come to about 400 bth per meter for labor , with me buying the material,

I told him that i thought it was too cheap, as i am afraid if he undercharges me to get the job, when he realizes he did not charge enough, the quality of the job would suffer, and I told him that I think 500 bth per meter was a more fair rate, as I wanted a good job. he sounded happy with that, and will be starting tomorrow.

Edited April 18, 2012 by sirineou

[mrbojangles]

As per above. I am currently building near Chaiyaphum and have been paying 250baht per day for skilled labour i.e. brickwork, plastering etc but had to pay 350 baht per day for the sparky. Still didn't think that was bad. However, my Mrs has been politely informed of the new minimum wage. They said to her, " did you see on the TV that the new minimum wage has gone up to 300 baht per day"

They didn't demand it but as the house is nearly finished and they have done a great job that I am more than happy with, I will start to pay them the extra 50 baht per day. They will also be getting a nice bonus at the end of the build. But that's my own choice.

[happyaussie]

If it's only one days work expect to pay more than going rate. Assuming your expecting them to also remove the trees and rubbish.

I live near Loei and find it amusing when I hear about all the hardship of young people that can't find work. Then when I want to offer work there's no one to be found.

I rarely have problems with older workers. Young blokes are generally lazy and god forbid if they had a night on the turps. It's a definite unapologetic no show the next day.

This is not a whinge, just stating the facts.

[supaprik]

not sure about labor out in the sticks but in Bangkok..<deleted>.... Electrician 800thb per day....( 6 hrs ) Welder 1,000thb per day...all plus materials of course. AND YES I did shop around, called many people and asked local Thai who they used etc etc...I want to know where is this 300thb per day?

[loong]

Thank you for the replies so far,

Today I met with a builder from the village that my father in law introduced me to.After I explained to him what I wanted, 114 m long, 1.7 m high and some other specifications, he said that he wanted to f see how much his help wanted for pay, but he thought that it should come to about 400 bth per meter for labor , with me buying the material,

I told him that i thought it was too cheap, as i am afraid if he undercharges me to get the job, when he realizes he did not charge enough, the quality of the job would suffer, and I told him that I think 500 bth per meter was a more fair rate, as I wanted a good job. he sounded happy with that, and will be starting tomorrow.

Paying more will not necessarily ensure a quality job. In my experience the Farang idea of good workmanship does not really exist much here.

You should always go and look at examples of the builder's work before contracting him.

The other thing is to make it absolutely clear that you will pay the agreed price for the job and only that. Many building crews expect you to feed them and supply them with beer and Lao Khao. This can get expensive.

[maprao]

Quoted 2000 Baht a day sure that wasn't for LT lol getting your questions and answers muddle up.

On serious not I to would be interested in the cost per meter excluding labor costs or including labor costs.

Edited April 19, 2012 by maprao

[sirineou]

Paying more will not necessarily ensure a quality job. In my experience the Farang idea of good workmanship does not really exist much here.

You should always go and look at examples of the builder's work before contracting him.

The other thing is to make it absolutely clear that you will pay the agreed price for the job and only that. Many building crews expect you to feed them and supply them with beer and Lao Khao. This can get expensive.

Quoted 2000 Baht a day sure that wasn't for LT lol getting your questions and answers muddle up.

On serious not I to would be interested in the cost per meter excluding labor costs or including labor costs.

I realize that paying more might not automatically produce a better finished product, but I thought that his initial estimate was too low, and I thought that when he got in to the job and realized ghat he was not making enough money, he would hurry up and might do a worst job than normal, Also it is my thinking that if he is making Ok money and is Happy, he might be more conducive to my suggestions for a better job. I am a Union Carpenter, in NYC and work exclusively on high-rise concrete , so i have some experience in these matters.

The Cost per meter is for labor only, I will be supplying all the material, It is an arrangement that works for both of us, he dont have to lay out the money for material, and I can control the quality of materials used.

[Wee Jimmy]

300 Baht a day in a factory then they will have tax and social security deducted which is about 15%.

I pay 250 Baht a day and if they do a good job they get a little bonus. Had no complaints so far but remember no matter what the task they will say ''I do, I do, no problem''. Most are just chancers trying to con you..

[Lancashirelad]

The 300 bht per day min. wage does not apply to the whole of Thailand, only Bangkok and a few other provinces. Its a lower amount in the northern/Eastern provinces. The scale is on here somewhere.

OP I agree with your MO so you can control materials.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Lancashirelad

[zzaa09]

If it's only one days work expect to pay more than going rate. Assuming your expecting them to also remove the trees and rubbish.

I live near Loei and find it amusing when I hear about all the hardship of young people that can't find work. Then when I want to offer work there's no one to be found.

I rarely have problems with older workers. Young blokes are generally lazy and god forbid if they had a night on the turps. It's a definite unapologetic no show the next day.

This is not a whinge, just stating the facts.

Factual indeed, HA.

I'm finding the current living generation to be devoid of any drive to work or better themseves....in any fashion. Spoiled rotten, largely.

[jsflynn603]

You worte: "I am a Union Carpenter, in NYC and work exclusively on high-rise concrete , so i have some experience in these matters."

Please post a follow up when all is done. I'd be interested in the final cost and your experiences. My fiancee has a small plot of land a bit outside Chiang Mai, and I've suggested that she build a wall around it especially as her new next door neighbor does auto work and has what I'd call here in the States a "junk yard." My fear is that without such a wall her land might become a convenient dumping ground for old oil/antifreeze/transmission fluids.

I'm curious as how its best to build a 2 meter wall, especially one that would survive a small'ish earthquake. I'm envisioning a poured concrete "footing perhaps 60 cm wide by (I'm not sure how deep) which is reinforced properly with appropriate (3/8," 1/2", or 5/8" iron rebar--I'm not sure which would be best).

And then there is concrete. In my opinion concrete is frequently one of the most poorly made (especially for the do-it-yourself'ers) substances on earth. The concrete on your NYC hi-rise is always to spec and each pour has an independent (from the concrete company) sampler who takes some of the 'crete and places it in a cylinder. The mix is "rodded" (poked up and down an exact number of times with a "rod." This cylinder is then taken and allowed to cure a certain number of days. The hardened concrete rod is then placed in a hydraulic "crusher" and pressure is applied until it fractures. If I remember correctly the specs usually use compressive strength at 28 days but often the cylinder is crushed earlier and the 28 day compressive strength extrapolated.

Concrete can be made to have a compressive strength of as low as 1800 pounds per square inch (sorry for the non-metric numbers) or higher than 5,000 lbs per inch depending upon the need. But here is the catch: If a batch is made of let's say 3600 lb/sq inch concrete let's take and divide it into two batches. Properly made concrete is both a function of the mix (amount of cement/sand/aggregrate) but also a function of water added. For instance when filling a 2 meter deep foundation here properly made concrete is quite stiff. Often the person delivering the concrete and/or the contractor emplacing it will "add water" so that it flows into the forms easily. But there is a huge price to be paid for doing this.

Let's take our two batches: One batch we leave stiff. It is hard to emplace because it flows poorly and we take some of this and place it in the cylinder and rod it properly for later testing. Then the contractor tires of such hard work and instructs the person in the concrete truck to add some water. *Poof* it becomes easy to work with, it pours nicely and even flows through the forms. We also take some of this and put it into a cylinder for later testing.

28 days later we place the now hardened and aged concrete into the hydraulic press and crush it. We find that the stiff mixture crushes at ~6,000 pounds/sq inch, but the mix that had the added water now crushes at 1400 lbs/square inch. In short it is very, very easy to ruin a batch of concrete. A properly rebarred (with emplaced steel rods) footing will not crack easly, but the "wetted" mix will often crack spontaneously.

So, knowing the take that most Thai people have on quality (and having lived in a high-rise in Chiang Mai where visible cracks indicated poor quality concrete) I wonder how hard it is to really get properly made concrete delivered and more importantly emplaced into forms.

Note: There are products called super-plasticizers which allow the concrete to flow more readily yet still retain proper compressive strength and are often a good solution to making the contractor who is building the forms and emplacing the concrete happy while still ending up with good concrete. For those who might be interested search for "concrete slump test" (wikipedia has a good article on it).

In addition to the perimeter wall I'd like her to eventually make, when building a house, since the area is prone to minor flooding, I'd like to build a foundation wall that rises about a meter above the ground level and the build with blocks on top of this. I do wonder how easy or hard it is to get a quality poured and made foundation.

I hope you do follow-up and let us know what you built, how you built it and your experiences and costs.

[thehelmsman]

Recently completed a retaining wall - fence. We agreed on 400 baht per meter for labor only. The wall was 1/2 meter below ground and 1.5 meter above. We purchased everything.

[sirineou]

You worte: "I am a Union Carpenter, in NYC and work exclusively on high-rise concrete , so i have some experience in these matters."

Please post a follow up when all is done. I'd be interested in the final cost and your experiences. My fiancee has a small plot of land a bit outside Chiang Mai, and I've suggested that she build a wall around it especially as her new next door neighbor does auto work and has what I'd call here in the States a "junk yard." My fear is that without such a wall her land might become a convenient dumping ground for old oil/antifreeze/transmission fluids.

I'm curious as how its best to build a 2 meter wall, especially one that would survive a small'ish earthquake. I'm envisioning a poured concrete "footing perhaps 60 cm wide by (I'm not sure how deep) which is reinforced properly with appropriate (3/8," 1/2", or 5/8" iron rebar--I'm not sure which would be best).

And then there is concrete. In my opinion concrete is frequently one of the most poorly made (especially for the do-it-yourself'ers) substances on earth. The concrete on your NYC hi-rise is always to spec and each pour has an independent (from the concrete company) sampler who takes some of the 'crete and places it in a cylinder. The mix is "rodded" (poked up and down an exact number of times with a "rod." This cylinder is then taken and allowed to cure a certain number of days. The hardened concrete rod is then placed in a hydraulic "crusher" and pressure is applied until it fractures. If I remember correctly the specs usually use compressive strength at 28 days but often the cylinder is crushed earlier and the 28 day compressive strength extrapolated.

Concrete can be made to have a compressive strength of as low as 1800 pounds per square inch (sorry for the non-metric numbers) or higher than 5,000 lbs per inch depending upon the need. But here is the catch: If a batch is made of let's say 3600 lb/sq inch concrete let's take and divide it into two batches. Properly made concrete is both a function of the mix (amount of cement/sand/aggregrate) but also a function of water added. For instance when filling a 2 meter deep foundation here properly made concrete is quite stiff. Often the person delivering the concrete and/or the contractor emplacing it will "add water" so that it flows into the forms easily. But there is a huge price to be paid for doing this.

Let's take our two batches: One batch we leave stiff. It is hard to emplace because it flows poorly and we take some of this and place it in the cylinder and rod it properly for later testing. Then the contractor tires of such hard work and instructs the person in the concrete truck to add some water. *Poof* it becomes easy to work with, it pours nicely and even flows through the forms. We also take some of this and put it into a cylinder for later testing.

28 days later we place the now hardened and aged concrete into the hydraulic press and crush it. We find that the stiff mixture crushes at ~6,000 pounds/sq inch, but the mix that had the added water now crushes at 1400 lbs/square inch. In short it is very, very easy to ruin a batch of concrete. A properly rebarred (with emplaced steel rods) footing will not crack easly, but the "wetted" mix will often crack spontaneously.

So, knowing the take that most Thai people have on quality (and having lived in a high-rise in Chiang Mai where visible cracks indicated poor quality concrete) I wonder how hard it is to really get properly made concrete delivered and more importantly emplaced into forms.

Note: There are products called super-plasticizers which allow the concrete to flow more readily yet still retain proper compressive strength and are often a good solution to making the contractor who is building the forms and emplacing the concrete happy while still ending up with good concrete. For those who might be interested search for "concrete slump test" (wikipedia has a good article on it).

In addition to the perimeter wall I'd like her to eventually make, when building a house, since the area is prone to minor flooding, I'd like to build a foundation wall that rises about a meter above the ground level and the build with blocks on top of this. I do wonder how easy or hard it is to get a quality poured and made foundation.

I hope you do follow-up and let us know what you built, how you built it and your experiences and costs.

You Know your concrete, you are right, it is easy to ruin a batch of concrete, In the US and in the High-rise industry, there are systems to insure the proper psi concrete mixture,. There is paper work from the Concrete mixing company, Time stump from mixing to pouring, if the truck waits too long, the butch is rejected, There is a "slump" test, , Core drilling and crushing test, etc, and yet cheating is done some times, It was done in no less a place as the Trump towers on the west side highway in Manhhatan, They had to tear a couple of floors down, and it almost bankrupted the company i worked for at the time.

in building a fence concrete integrity is not all that important but when building a two story house there are a couple of steps that can be taken.

First buy from a reputable company, such a Cpack,

make sure they dont add water while waiting if possible

do a slump test, if you dont know how there is instruction videos on You Tube

make sure that the concrete remains dump, (moist) while curing, when it is too hot out, which is almost always in Thailand, by wrapping , or periodicaly spraying it with water.

The cost of the fence would be , 400- 500 bht per Meter, for labor,

There are many concrete, and block calculators on line or for free download on CNET. in my case the material with out the gate will be about 45,000 bht

I will post pictures when I have more time, and final costs when I am finished in a few weeks.

[Lancashirelad]

The 300 bht per day min. wage does not apply to the whole of Thailand, only Bangkok and a few other provinces. Its a lower amount in the northern/Eastern provinces. The scale is on here somewhere.

Just if anyone wanted to refer to it, here's the min. wages by province:

http://sunbeltasia.c...41-08f86c396c63

Courtesy of SunBeltAsia

Edited April 23, 2012 by Lancashirelad

[PattayaPhom]

not sure about labor out in the sticks but in Bangkok..<deleted>.... Electrician 800thb per day....( 6 hrs ) Welder 1,000thb per day...all plus materials of course. AND YES I did shop around, called many people and asked local Thai who they used etc etc...I want to know where is this 300thb per day?

Most Capitols attract higher salaries simply because the cost of living is normally more.....

Edited April 25, 2012 by PattayaPhom

[tingtong]

not sure about labor out in the sticks but in Bangkok..<deleted>.... Electrician 800thb per day....( 6 hrs ) Welder 1,000thb per day...all plus materials of course. AND YES I did shop around, called many people and asked local Thai who they used etc etc...I want to know where is this 300thb per day?

Most Capitols attract higher salaries simply because the cost of living is normally more.....

i think it is more than just the capital...

these are professions everywhere seem to be in demand enough to command a higher salaries.

in in EU an electrician will make 200 euro/day, not 20 euro like in Thailand. and lately i am not convinced that EU is 10x more expensive to live in, prices seem to rise ( part due the exchange rate, part inflation) quite drastically in Thailand, %age wise way above the published inflation rates, food, energy, etc.

[ttl]

SOME CONFUSION HERE

Can someone kindly interpret the Thai on this Invoice for me.No one locally can clearly give me the English for the column headings

or the line headings

This was submitted to cover increase in Labour charges,above that quoted to lay tiles in a new bathroom as against an origional PRICE FOR THE JOB

The job was origionally undertaken,AND NO HOURS INDICATED, although I requested the calculation.

Sorry to be a nuisance (also did not seem to be able to trim the scan(

[loong]

TTL,

you have not attached anything that I can see to your post. Without being able to view the invoice, we cannot offer any advice

[ttl]

SORRY WILLTRY AGAIN WITH THE INVOICE

[ttl]

SORRY WILLTRY AGAIN WITH THE INVOICE

[ttl]

SORRY WILLTRY AGAIN WITH THE INVOICE

[loong]

I see the invoice now.

The handwriting is terrible, too difficult for me to read.

[vreemd13]

The 300 bht per day min. wage does not apply to the whole of Thailand, only Bangkok and a few other provinces. Its a lower amount in the northern/Eastern provinces. The scale is on here somewhere.

Just if anyone wanted to refer to it, here's the min. wages by province:

http://sunbeltasia.c...41-08f86c396c63

Courtesy of SunBeltAsia

Nice legal information?

but I really like to know how much a normal waiter/waitress would need to do extra to have this minimum 300Baht/day (in 8hours) in Bangkok?

even 220Baht/day as lowest Thailand wage/day, I have rearely (better say never) seen as normal pay for unskilled personnel (f.e. at a farm)

Edited April 28, 2012 by vreemd13

[vreemd13]

Maybe, Thai people just do not know about this information?

[ttl]

THANKS LOONG, I have tried to enlarge the invoice,hope you can read it this time.

My computer struggles on an AIS dongle here in Isaan, and an upload takes for ever. See how we go now Cheers

[loong]

Item 4 is Paydahn which means ceiling. Probably ceiling tiles?

Item 5 is Bundai which means ladder/stairs/steps

Item 6 is Gaw chahp , I'm not really sure what these refers to, gaw has a few meanings but is often used as "do" or "begin". Chahp means to coat, cover. I would say that in this case Gaw chahp means, to do painting, plastering or cement rendering.

The other items are in such a scrawl that I cannot read them. If I stare at it long enough, I may be able to get the gist, but I have no idea at the moment.