Move To Samui?

[PoorSucker]

You should get some new glasses next time at the hospital if you think a lot of the road is finished being bitumened. the Chaweng section was done over 2 years ago and what's been done from Bophut to Nathon and beyond? nothing. Yes it will be done but in a half half fashion like putting drainage gates in the middle of the road. I don't have rose coloured glasses so I don't see paradise. I live here so I see the fact's.

This year the have tarmacked the lake view road, chaweng, and are doing chaweng-choenmong-banrak-bophut.

Next on the list seems to be Hua thanon to Nathon, where they are putting all new drainage all the way.

Seems like Bophut to Nathon has lower priority.

[Virt]

May i ask what a normal expat spend each year on Samui incl everything like insurance,visaruns etc etc.

Just the regular person who lives in a 2 room bungalow/kondo etc and cook at home but goes out a few times a week and enjoy some beers with the people they get to know.

Are we talking about 500-600,000 bath a year in a place like Samui with everything covered.

It is a good question Virt, but an unfair one. Everyones' idea of comfort and life is different. We could all argue the 'need' for THB 20,000, 40,000, 50,000 or 100,000 to get by. What (I think) we would all agree on is that there is much on this island that is free; beaches, sand, sun, blue skies, mountains. To make it extra special with a car, a coffee on the beach and an air-con'd room to go home to is what makes the difference.

Will you rent or own a home? Rent will be the main cost of living here. 5,000 will get you something. 20,000 will get you something very nice. 50,000 will get you luxury, It is up to you to decide what it is that you need. Similarly with transport ..... own or rent? .... car or bike?

Do you need air con? Maybe add 10% to the rent for that. Where do you want to eat and drink? I have just had dinner in Choeng Mon, at a tourist style Thai place, THB 350 for 2 courses and 2 buckets of wine. But I could have had the same at home for a fraction of the price.

A night out with friends can be just a few beers and so just a few hundred THB. (Unless you are buying for me, in which case red wine please! )

Health care etc. Well, it is reassuring you are thinking about this, but maybe 5,000 per person per month?

Do you want a Starbucks breakfast for THB 135, or is toast and coffee at home for 20 good enough?

It is difficult to answer your question. I know one guy who lives on the UK pension of about 25,000 a month. He always has a smile on his face. I also know another guy spending more than that on live in help in his villa, but he is a miserable old fart.

I guess I would say that your suggested budget can be done with just about most things covered. But if what you want is more than everyone else, you might be in trouble. On the other hand, if you enjoy the simple life, then you should be able to save a few baht each month.

Hope this helps. If it doesn't make any sense, blame the 2 buckets of wine!

Thanks for trying to answer a question i now can see is impossible to answer.

it all comes down to what people off course prefer, but i think i would put myself and my gf under the cathegory "we like the simple life with occasional raids to the local pub"

Found out last week that the Rock Cafe on Chaweng lake road we love a lot and visited numerous times mainly because of the very frindly owner, is up for sale , so it's clear the business is tough down there so starting a business would never be on the schedule.

We would have to rely on our savings and my calculator tells me we're quite far to be able to fulfill our dream.

Maybe it will never end up with permanent movement but whata joy if we could rip out a year of the calender and spend a whole year down there before we grow old and immobile.

Dreams has to start somewhere so we can only hope and keep saving some money.

Then maybe someday......

Consider yourself lucky all those of you living down there, even if the old grind gets to you at times.

[PattayaPhom]

fyi, just because Samui doesn't have a decent newspaper to report murders and incidents and whatnot, doesn't mean they didn't happen. E.G. 2 people were murdered on Songkran Friday last week just in Lamai. You won't see it on the news though.

Sorry, samui is not in the same league as Pattaya - for lots of reasons.

OK so on one on-line paper in Pattaya on the 21/4 we have

1. Husband accused of murdering his wife
   
2. Man killed in fight outside beer bar
   
3. Gunfire on Pattaya Beach
   
4. Drug dealing suspect caught by police
   
5. 19 year old stabbed in the neck
   
6. 2 hurt following jet ski scam
   
7. Body of newborn baby found in garbage truck
   
8. Under-age drunk driving dominates Songkhran
   
9. 3 injured in shooting outside of north Pattaya restaurant
   
10. Man involved in shooting at north Pattaya hospital
    
11. traffic police volunteer injured during chase
    
12. 19 year old man shot in random shooting
    
13. Songkhran begins early in Pattaya
    
14. Belarus woman drowns in condo pool
    
15. Suspected drug courier arrested in south Pattaya
    

On the other on-line paper (popular news section) we have

1. Foreigner and 2 Thais randomly shot
   
2. Thai man arrested for being a paedophile
   
3. Jealous Thai female threw acid on her boyfriend's face
   
4. 7 dangerous days of Pattaya's Songkhran
   
5. Police legally shoot and kill 'Ball Tonsai' (suspected drug dealer)
   
6. Transvestites or real women, sexy dancing in Sattihip
   
7. Angry kiwi beefcake stabs Canadian English Teacher in Pattaya
   

(I omitted 2 news items that were about other countries.) These headlines are only from the front pages of these publications

It would take quite a few months to reach these sort of numbers on Samui.

Pattaya is slightly bigger than Samui you know......were there not any news items on the same days about any of the numerous charities in Pattaya for example

[wasas]

Wasas...........if you can't , send it to me i know i will manage it easily.

sorry i was drunk when i wrote that, i wish i had 40000baht

[Tropicalevo]

Pattaya is slightly bigger than Samui you know......were there not any news items on the same days about any of the numerous charities in Pattaya for example

Sorry PP. Those were the headlines on one particular day. Nothing about the good stuff that goes on in Pattaya. In a later post I did write that Samui is insignificant in size compared to Pattaya and that we cannot really compare the two. The point to the OP was -

Where would you rather live? A small tropical island paradise with a low crime rate, or a large urban sprawl with the benifits/problems that it brings.

[ydraw]

Where would you rather live? A small tropical island paradise with a low crime rate

I'd like to live on a tropical island paradise with a low crime rate, but Samui's crime rate is astronomical.

[Tropicalevo]

Where would you rather live? A small tropical island paradise with a low crime rate

I'd like to live on a tropical island paradise with a low crime rate, but Samui's crime rate is astronomical.

That statement needs a bit of detail methinks. If you class driving under the influence/no helmet etc as a crime - yes, I agree.

However, I tend to think of crimes as rape/murder/robbery with violence etc.

If crimes are in the astonomical bracket on Samui - what superlative would you pick for Pattaya?

[sandgroper2]

Where would you rather live? A small tropical island paradise with a low crime rate

I'd like to live on a tropical island paradise with a low crime rate, but Samui's crime rate is astronomical.

That statement needs a bit of detail methinks. If you class driving under the influence/no helmet etc as a crime - yes, I agree.

However, I tend to think of crimes as rape/murder/robbery with violence etc.

If crimes are in the astonomical bracket on Samui - what superlative would you pick for Pattaya?

Pattaya is on the improve, new sheriff in town. We now have breathanaliser. (excuse spelling, i only went to night school, its now daytime)

[BusyBee123]

you can live in paradise on 10.000 a month if you want to including beach life > rent a simple room for 3.000 next to a market, eat there for 200 a day - morning chok and patango (50), lunch fried rice/noodle (50), dinner pat thai/khao man gai/soup/7/11 hamburger/tuna sandwich (50), inbetween seasonal fruit (50) water is FOC, fast 1 day per week - makes ~5.000 and 1.000 max for this and that, toothpaste (if you don't want to clean teeth in the sea), washing powder...., walk to the beach. Sick? stay in your room with or without cheap Thai medicine. Only problem is the visa.

Paradise? Sounds like hell. Maybe work a bit more and actually enjoy this "paradise".

hell indeed, 10k a month is not even existing let alone living

[oldsailor35]

Poorsucker..................Put my glasses on yesterday and happened to notice that the road is finished right through from Cheong Mon to Bophut. Also i am told that there is a new 6mtr concrete road going over the mountain from Lamai , when this is finished, according to the foreman, they are going to concentrate on repairing the road from Lamai to Soi 5 Maenam where there is a partial wash out. I could not confirm the new concrete road as i did'nt have my mountain glasses on................sorry

[oldsailor35]

Wasas...........if you can't , send it to me i know i will manage it easily.

sorry i was drunk when i wrote that, i wish i had 40000baht

[BangrakBob]

Poorsucker..................Put my glasses on yesterday and happened to notice that the road is finished right through from Cheong Mon to Bophut. Also i am told that there is a new 6mtr concrete road going over the mountain from Lamai , when this is finished, according to the foreman, they are going to concentrate on repairing the road from Lamai to Soi 5 Maenam where there is a partial wash out. I could not confirm the new concrete road as i did'nt have my mountain glasses on................sorry

They've been surveying the ring road in Mae Nam for a couple weeks, I expect the tarmac will keep coming from Bophut

[insertmembernamehere]

These replies are mostly good, but specific.

Some things worth remembering about coming here (and I assume the OP means to really live here, not spend a few months a year on Samui) are more general.

It's obvious of course, but this is small island life, and that means a completely different existence from almost anywhere else in Thailand (Phuket notwithstanding). There is no "city" here and little in the way of trappings of such. You cannot obtain things in the same way you might in say, Chiang Mai. There is little in the way of selection and choice and this also translates to limits in the way you can live your life.

One important general thing to think about is this: Do you want to live in a place where most of the people you see are tourists? Samui isn't really Thailand in the sense that there is any sort of "Thai culture" here. Ninety percent of the people here are from Issan and they (and the few local Samui folk) make their living from using creative ways to try to separate the tourist from his money.

There is a constant sense that you (as the person living here) are an outsider. It's a little like living in Disneyland -- almost no one is from Disneyland, inhabitants are only there as transient workers (mostly) and the whole reason for the existence of the place is for short-time visitors.

Do you want to live in an amusement park? There are few actual neighborhoods in the normal Thai city sense. Even the waterfall is now an (illegally operated) pay-for-entry place with huge, garish signs and cement intrusion pools.

And also remember that you have nowhere to go. The ring road is something like 65km around ....you want to take a longer trip? Drive around it twice. If you have a big bike, you cannot use it for more than a showpiece; the roads and conditions do not lend themselves to this sort of transport.

Thai roads are not always safe, but in Samui every time you get on your scooter or in your car you have to contend with not only bad roads, but inexperienced drivers from outside and inside Thailand.

Unless you have something that really occupies your time and is personally fulfilling and constructive, you will find Samui confining, not mentally challenging and lacking much of anything to see or do (past the first month or two here).

Ask yourself this: How long do you want to be on a holiday? A year? Five years? Forever? Holidays and their destinations are not designed for people to stay for a long time. The illusion is there: "Wouldn't it be nice if we could live here all the time?" But the reality is that it eventually gets stale, if this is the only place you reside.

And I might add that if you have a personality that is susceptible to the darker forces -- easy sex with young babes, drugs, alcohol and the predilection to piss money away on already failed businesses (which YOU will operate better, sure you will), then Samui is the devil waiting to get well under your skin.

[notmyself]

These replies are mostly good, but specific.

Some things worth remembering about coming here (and I assume the OP means to really live here, not spend a few months a year on Samui) are more general.

It's obvious of course, but this is small island life, and that means a completely different existence from almost anywhere else in Thailand (Phuket notwithstanding). There is no "city" here and little in the way of trappings of such. You cannot obtain things in the same way you might in say, Chiang Mai. There is little in the way of selection and choice and this also translates to limits in the way you can live your life.

One important general thing to think about is this: Do you want to live in a place where most of the people you see are tourists? Samui isn't really Thailand in the sense that there is any sort of "Thai culture" here. Ninety percent of the people here are from Issan and they (and the few local Samui folk) make their living from using creative ways to try to separate the tourist from his money.

There is a constant sense that you (as the person living here) are an outsider. It's a little like living in Disneyland -- almost no one is from Disneyland, inhabitants are only there as transient workers (mostly) and the whole reason for the existence of the place is for short-time visitors.

Do you want to live in an amusement park? There are few actual neighborhoods in the normal Thai city sense. Even the waterfall is now an (illegally operated) pay-for-entry place with huge, garish signs and cement intrusion pools.

And also remember that you have nowhere to go. The ring road is something like 65km around ....you want to take a longer trip? Drive around it twice. If you have a big bike, you cannot use it for more than a showpiece; the roads and conditions do not lend themselves to this sort of transport.

Thai roads are not always safe, but in Samui every time you get on your scooter or in your car you have to contend with not only bad roads, but inexperienced drivers from outside and inside Thailand.

Unless you have something that really occupies your time and is personally fulfilling and constructive, you will find Samui confining, not mentally challenging and lacking much of anything to see or do (past the first month or two here).

Ask yourself this: How long do you want to be on a holiday? A year? Five years? Forever? Holidays and their destinations are not designed for people to stay for a long time. The illusion is there: "Wouldn't it be nice if we could live here all the time?" But the reality is that it eventually gets stale, if this is the only place you reside.

And I might add that if you have a personality that is susceptible to the darker forces -- easy sex with young babes, drugs, alcohol and the predilection to piss money away on already failed businesses (which YOU will operate better, sure you will), then Samui is the devil waiting to get well under your skin.

Very very well said.

[Tropicalevo]

That is one way to look at it 'insert'. Another way is to ........

.......drop out of the rat race. Find a quiet location with some of the best views in the world. Enjoy hot to warm weather for 350 days of the year (the other 15 are cool days). Enjoy sunshine and calm seas for 10 months of the year.

Fabulous beaches, warm sea, great food (compared to most places in the UK) cold beer and lovely people that smile at you when you say hello.

A shxtty day here is still far better than an average day in lots of other places. It depends on your outlook to life. Positive outlook, positive life. I earn a fraction of the money that I did in the real world, but Disneyland still looks good when it looks like tropical beaches, warm weather and fabulous views.

I worked for 34 years, eventually enjoying top hotels, flying to different places every week, living in a new country every two/three years, and having a great time eating, drinking and travelling. I met some great people and really enjoyed my job.

I do not miss one single aspect of it now that I have stopped on Samui. (Except maybe a bit more money? )

Every morning I wake up and look at a great view and know that today I will meet and talk to some really nice folks. I will have a great meal and a couple of beers. Perfect. I have been on 'holiday' on samui for 12 years now. It's still PDG.

[insertmembernamehere]

I think the idealistic adage is true: Any place is what you make of it.

My post is cautionary; Samui can be a nice place to be if you can keep your personal compass true.

And I agree; I have a view here in Samui that were I in the Mediterranean, I'd either be super rich or just standing outside someone else's house, unable to afford the rent. But in terms of personal fulfillment, you better bring whatever tools you need for that with you because the cast of characters here and the limiting microcosm of island life does not foster much growth.

[carmine]

That is one way to look at it 'insert'. Another way is to ........

.......drop out of the rat race. Find a quiet location with some of the best views in the world. Enjoy hot to warm weather for 350 days of the year (the other 15 are cool days). Enjoy sunshine and calm seas for 10 months of the year.

Fabulous beaches, warm sea, great food (compared to most places in the UK) cold beer and lovely people that smile at you when you say hello.

A shxtty day here is still far better than an average day in lots of other places. It depends on your outlook to life. Positive outlook, positive life. I earn a fraction of the money that I did in the real world, but Disneyland still looks good when it looks like tropical beaches, warm weather and fabulous views.

I worked for 34 years, eventually enjoying top hotels, flying to different places every week, living in a new country every two/three years, and having a great time eating, drinking and travelling. I met some great people and really enjoyed my job.

I do not miss one single aspect of it now that I have stopped on Samui. (Except maybe a bit more money? )

Every morning I wake up and look at a great view and know that today I will meet and talk to some really nice folks. I will have a great meal and a couple of beers. Perfect. I have been on 'holiday' on samui for 12 years now. It's still PDG.

I think i'm somewhere in the middle between your post and inserts.

The beeches for the most part are not fabulous anymore, they are strewn with rubbish through lack of upkeep. The warm water ihas sewage pumped into it regularily and tourists constantly comment on how disappointing the mirky sea is. The locals do not , for the majority smile, they just sneer and want your money.....sadly true! But the lifestyle is still relaxad and compairs well to the UK in my view, even though its largely lawless here with roads that are little better than a kill zone. Its more about how bad a reflection it is on the UK.

When i arrived here it was more enjoyable running a business but now, due to a drop in tourism and the ever mind boggling greed of local landlords rents are as high as they've ever been making profitability more and more difficult.

Just how long it will compare well to my country of origin i'm really not sure. There is definately a future here but locals and powers that be have to wake up to some realities and deal with them...then it will be a better place for all of us to live.

PS Nice new tarmaced roads though. Certainly improves the look of the place

Edited May 7, 2012 by carmine

[notmyself]

I think the idealistic adage is true: Any place is what you make of it.

[...]

But in terms of personal fulfillment, you better bring whatever tools you need for that with you because the cast of characters here and the limiting microcosm of island life does not foster much growth.

One mans pleasure is another mans poison.

No matter how many times people have been here on short or extended holidays, I always advise them to actually come and live here for 3-4 months before taking the plunge and moving here.

[Birdman]

.................PS Nice new tarmaced roads though. Certainly improves the look of the place

Many Farangs living here in the 80s left because too many new Farangs came with completely other sentiments. Natural beach-life under tense palm trees, cozy waters, easy going lifestyle, magical mood without any tense at all, everywhere......was suddenly not on the primary agenda of the ever growing new Farangs anymore......

I adapted and still like it here, but still don't understand one thing, why did they come here???

Edited May 7, 2012 by Birdman

[Rooo]

.................PS Nice new tarmaced roads though. Certainly improves the look of the place

Many Farangs living here in the 80s left because too many new Farangs came with completely other sentiments. Natural beach-life under tense palm trees, cozy waters, easy going lifestyle, magical mood without any tense at all, everywhere......was suddenly not on the primary agenda of the ever growing new Farangs anymore......

I adapted and still like it here, but still don't understand one thing, why did they come here???

Same reason you did

[carmine]

.................PS Nice new tarmaced roads though. Certainly improves the look of the place

Many Farangs living here in the 80s left because too many new Farangs came with completely other sentiments. Natural beach-life under tense palm trees, cozy waters, easy going lifestyle, magical mood without any tense at all, everywhere......was suddenly not on the primary agenda of the ever growing new Farangs anymore......

I adapted and still like it here, but still don't understand one thing, why did they come here???

Thanks for singling out one line. Perhaps you would like to comment on the other points of my posts or are they simply dusted under the mat?

I've adapted here and i still like it but i don't understand people with these rose tinted spectacles. People Mr Birdman that are pretending everything is pretty much perfect and unspoilt are holding onto an attitude the island back from improvement

[Birdman]

people like you really can't understand that for some tropical beach life under palm trees in the never ending summer is all they want. Don't wanna be the advocate of the old times again, but i am here since then, and I am not so sure, that, if there would be no Tesco, Seven, Airport, Internet..., I wouldn't be here...

[carmine]

people like you really can't understand that for some tropical beach life under palm trees in the never ending summer is all they want. Don't wanna be the advocate of the old times again, but i am here since then, and I am not so sure, that, if there would be no Tesco, Seven, Airport, Internet..., I wouldn't be here...

Ah yes, the "we've been here 20 years, before you all knew Samui existed and you'll never understand Samui the way we do? crowd. Boring

[sandgroper2]

These replies are mostly good, but specific.

Some things worth remembering about coming here (and I assume the OP means to really live here, not spend a few months a year on Samui) are more general.

It's obvious of course, but this is small island life, and that means a completely different existence from almost anywhere else in Thailand (Phuket notwithstanding). There is no "city" here and little in the way of trappings of such. You cannot obtain things in the same way you might in say, Chiang Mai. There is little in the way of selection and choice and this also translates to limits in the way you can live your life.

One important general thing to think about is this: Do you want to live in a place where most of the people you see are tourists? Samui isn't really Thailand in the sense that there is any sort of "Thai culture" here. Ninety percent of the people here are from Issan and they (and the few local Samui folk) make their living from using creative ways to try to separate the tourist from his money.

There is a constant sense that you (as the person living here) are an outsider. It's a little like living in Disneyland -- almost no one is from Disneyland, inhabitants are only there as transient workers (mostly) and the whole reason for the existence of the place is for short-time visitors.

Do you want to live in an amusement park? There are few actual neighborhoods in the normal Thai city sense. Even the waterfall is now an (illegally operated) pay-for-entry place with huge, garish signs and cement intrusion pools.

And also remember that you have nowhere to go. The ring road is something like 65km around ....you want to take a longer trip? Drive around it twice. If you have a big bike, you cannot use it for more than a showpiece; the roads and conditions do not lend themselves to this sort of transport.

Thai roads are not always safe, but in Samui every time you get on your scooter or in your car you have to contend with not only bad roads, but inexperienced drivers from outside and inside Thailand.

Unless you have something that really occupies your time and is personally fulfilling and constructive, you will find Samui confining, not mentally challenging and lacking much of anything to see or do (past the first month or two here).

Ask yourself this: How long do you want to be on a holiday? A year? Five years? Forever? Holidays and their destinations are not designed for people to stay for a long time. The illusion is there: "Wouldn't it be nice if we could live here all the time?" But the reality is that it eventually gets stale, if this is the only place you reside.

And I might add that if you have a personality that is susceptible to the darker forces -- easy sex with young babes, drugs, alcohol and the predilection to piss money away on already failed businesses (which YOU will operate better, sure you will), then Samui is the devil waiting to get well under your skin.

Very informative, gave me a lot to think about. (especially what ''predilection means!). Think I will rent out my condo in Pattaya and play it by ear then I get there. Thanks.

[sandgroper2]

That is one way to look at it 'insert'. Another way is to ........

.......drop out of the rat race. Find a quiet location with some of the best views in the world. Enjoy hot to warm weather for 350 days of the year (the other 15 are cool days). Enjoy sunshine and calm seas for 10 months of the year.

Fabulous beaches, warm sea, great food (compared to most places in the UK) cold beer and lovely people that smile at you when you say hello.

A shxtty day here is still far better than an average day in lots of other places. It depends on your outlook to life. Positive outlook, positive life. I earn a fraction of the money that I did in the real world, but Disneyland still looks good when it looks like tropical beaches, warm weather and fabulous views.

I worked for 34 years, eventually enjoying top hotels, flying to different places every week, living in a new country every two/three years, and having a great time eating, drinking and travelling. I met some great people and really enjoyed my job.

I do not miss one single aspect of it now that I have stopped on Samui. (Except maybe a bit more money? )

Every morning I wake up and look at a great view and know that today I will meet and talk to some really nice folks. I will have a great meal and a couple of beers. Perfect. I have been on 'holiday' on samui for 12 years now. It's still PDG.

Another great post.

[Tropicalevo]

Carmine - you invited comments on your points. Well, as always, there are more than two sides of Samui. My observations, just for the record - on the whole your comments are accurate if you live, work or stay in the major tourist hubs on the island.

I think i'm somewhere in the middle between your post and inserts.

The beeches for the most part are not fabulous anymore, they are strewn with rubbish through lack of upkeep.

Not true on the beaches that I visit. They are regularly cleaned by the local businesses.

The warm water ihas sewage pumped into it regularily

true

and tourists constantly comment on how disappointing the mirky sea is.

I always understood that murky water was a feature of weather and tides. Not much can be done about that. There is also rain run-off that affects water clarity. If I am wrong -

The locals do not , for the majority smile, they just sneer and want your money.....sadly true!

Again, I live and work outside of the main tourist areas - the locals that I meet smile - but still want my money

But the lifestyle is still relaxad and compairs well to the UK in my view, even though its largely lawless here with roads that are little better than a kill zone. Its more about how bad a reflection it is on the UK.

Agree 100%

When i arrived here it was more enjoyable running a business but now, due to a drop in tourism and the ever mind boggling greed of local landlords rents are as high as they've ever been making profitability more and more difficult.

Again 100% correct. I believe that the stupidly high rents and increasingly growing wages bills are the biggest killers to a business here now. The customers have always been seasonal, and businesses have managed to cope with that. However, how do you cope when your rent doubles - or even trebles?

Just how long it will compare well to my country of origin i'm really not sure. There is definately a future here but locals and powers that be have to wake up to some realities and deal with them...then it will be a better place for all of us to live.

PS Nice new tarmaced roads though. Certainly improves the look of the place

Agree - and the new drains etc going in around the place.

[carmine]

I'm merely pointing out that things are far from perfect.

On a positive many aspects can be remedied. On a negative, they almost certainly won't.

[Jim77]

I like Koh Samui because Koh Samui is good size.I always feel that I am on the Island.

I like Koh Samui because Koh Samui is moderately city and moderately country.

[AussieKenny]

When all's said and done I'd rather be in Sihanoukville.

No more visa runs.

Better weather.

Beautiful beaches.

[Rooo]

When all's said and done I'd rather be in Sihanoukville.

No more visa runs.

Better weather.

Beautiful beaches.

Good on you mate.Why bother coming on here then? Bored over there?