Trayvon Martin Shooter Released On $150,000 Bond

[koheesti]

Some more new dirt on Zimmerman. A choirboy, he ain't:

The pictures posted on the page including several with an ethnically diverse group of friends. The blog section boasts about having two felonies knocked down to misdemeanors and describes a court battle with an ex-girlfriend. Zimmerman faced two felonies in 2005 for obstructing justice and battery on a law enforcement officer, but the cases were reduced to misdemeanor simple battery, and he was left with no criminal conviction on his record.

http://slatest.slate...t_mexicans.html

A man clearly capable of manslaughter? You bethca!

Here's what those charges were about...

That July, Zimmerman was charged with resisting arrest, violence, and battery of an officer after shoving an undercover alcohol-control agent who was arresting an under-age friend of Zimmerman’s at a bar.

In August, Zimmerman’s fiancee at the time, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman reciprocated with his own order on the same grounds, and both orders were granted. The relationship ended.

http://m.torontosun....e-to-a-shooting

Anyone who honestly believes that means Zimmerman is capable of manslaughter is only showing poor judgement.

Edited May 5, 2012 by koheesti

[Jingthing]

He shot a young man dead. Yes, I seriously believe Zimmerman is capable of manslaughter!

[koheesti]

He shot a young man dead. Yes, I seriously believe Zimmerman is capable of manslaughter!

And in the trial it could very well come out that Trayvon was capable of brutal, hands on, cold-blooded murder. That is, if the witnesses can be believed.

[Jingthing]

He shot a young man dead. Yes, I seriously believe Zimmerman is capable of manslaughter!

And in the trial it could very well come out that Trayvon was capable of brutal, hands on, cold-blooded murder. That is, if the witnesses can be believed.

No, that is NOT the consensus of the eyewitnesses and please don't act like it is. Given the variances in such reports, there is a good chance they ALL will be discounted.

[Ulysses G.]

He did not claim that it was a "consensus", but he has just as much reason to cast aspersions about Trayvon as you do.about Zimmerman based on the eye witnesses.

[Jingthing]

Why the fascinating and weird sympathy for the shooter Zimmerman? Is this because of the "gun rights" issue?

Edited May 5, 2012 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

I think that it is possible that Zimmerman was attacked and do not want to see him convicted on the Internet without all the evidence in.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

I think that it is possible that Zimmerman was attacked and do not want to see him convicted on the Internet without all the evidence in.

That's what the trial is about. He can't be convicted on the internet. I hope you recall this wouldn't even had been news if the police hadn't been so stupid as to take his word as pure truth on the night of the killing.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted.

[koheesti]

Why the fascinating and weird sympathy for the shooter Zimmerman? Is this because of the "gun rights" issue?

Why the fascination for Trayvon? Is it because he was such a "cute boy"?

I posted a long list of the problems I see with this whole issue. Zimmerman - who while likely guilty of manslaughter - is being used by the true racists in the media and on the left as a symbol of something sinister when it was just a tragic event that took one life and ruined another plus those of their families and loved ones.

Edited May 6, 2012 by koheesti

[Credo]

I have to agree with Koheesti, there are not too many winners in this situation. It's a tragedy all the way around.

[Jingthing]

Why the fascinating and weird sympathy for the shooter Zimmerman? Is this because of the "gun rights" issue?

Why the fascination for Trayvon? Is it because he was such a "cute boy"?

...

No, it is because an unarmed man was killed by an armed man (not involving a home invasion) and the initial reaction of the police was to let the killer go without being charged with anything. That was clearly unjust.

As I stated in my question which you chose to reply with a snarky, insinuating irrelevant question, everyone knows would NEVER be asked of a heterosexual man, the GUN RIGHTS issue is indeed core to the right wing sympathy for Zimmerman. This is no secret, I thought it was relevant to bring up.

There is no doubt that part of the press and sympathy for the victim arised from the fact that he was a young man rather than an old man. That always makes it more tragic. We see this kind of thing all the time in the media, more often involving pretty young women, such as the case in Aruba with the pretty young blonde girl. It's much more unusual for a MINORITY young man or woman to be subject to this kind of public sympathy, that's for certain.

About the nauseating and transparent right wing sympathy for Zimmerman because of the GUN RIGHTS connection:

Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign, says that despite Zimmerman’s arrest record and record of violence, because of the efforts of the NRA and others, he had a gun permit. Florida is the closest to the NRA vision of an “armed utopia,” he says.

Read more: http://www.care2.com...l#ixzz1u5AunkQD

Yes, Zimmerman was legally carrying a gun and that's a crying shame!

Edited May 6, 2012 by Jingthing

[koheesti]

No, it is because an unarmed man was killed by an armed man (not involving a home invasion) and the initial reaction of the police was to let the killer go without being charged with anything. That was clearly unjust.

I agree there should have been an investigation from the beginning. It shouldn't have taken protests to get it started.

As I stated in my question which you chose to reply with a snarky, insinuating irrelevant question, everyone knows would NEVER be asked of a heterosexual man, the GUN RIGHTS issue is indeed core to the right wing sympathy for Zimmerman. This is no secret, I thought it was relevant to bring up.

As a heterosexual man myself, I never ask another hetero's motives for not wanting to arrest a hot young woman, for example, having sex with a 17 yr old make student because, well, I don't have to. You spent too many posts fawning all over the "boy" for it not to be a relevant question to bring up.

As for the gun lobby - I'm right wing and I don't see this as a gun rights issue. The NRA and the like are on the defensive because you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that the Left will pounce on this - not out of concern for Trayvon - but as a way of getting more guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens (while keeping them in the hands of the criminals - also known as their "constituents")

About the nauseating and transparent right wing sympathy for Zimmerman because of the GUN RIGHTS connection:

Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign, says that despite Zimmerman’s arrest record and record of violence, because of the efforts of the NRA and others, he had a gun permit. Florida is the closest to the NRA vision of an “armed utopia,” he says.

Read more: http://www.care2.com...l#ixzz1u5AunkQD

Yes, Zimmerman was legally carrying a gun and that's a crying shame!

There's that "record of violence" line of bullshit again (just read what is exactly behind these charges and you'll agree). The people who keep pointing to that "record of violence" are intellectually dishonest and their own motives should be questioned. I guarantee that "justice" ain't one of them.

Edited May 6, 2012 by koheesti

[Scott]

Further references to sexual preferences as a motive will result in a suspension of posting ability.

The death of a young man, whether he is judged 'cute' or not is still a death. It deserves investigation and the motives of those posting does not need investigating.

Stay on the topic and not on the posters.

[Exsexyman]

Why the fascinating and weird sympathy for the shooter Zimmerman? Is this because of the "gun rights" issue?

Why the fascination for Trayvon? Is it because he was such a "cute boy"?

...

No, it is because an unarmed man was killed by an armed man (not involving a home invasion) and the initial reaction of the police was to let the killer go without being charged with anything. That was clearly unjust.

As I stated in my question which you chose to reply with a snarky, insinuating irrelevant question, everyone knows would NEVER be asked of a heterosexual man, the GUN RIGHTS issue is indeed core to the right wing sympathy for Zimmerman. This is no secret, I thought it was relevant to bring up.

There is no doubt that part of the press and sympathy for the victim arised from the fact that he was a young man rather than an old man. That always makes it more tragic. We see this kind of thing all the time in the media, more often involving pretty young women, such as the case in Aruba with the pretty young blonde girl. It's much more unusual for a MINORITY young man or woman to be subject to this kind of public sympathy, that's for certain.

About the nauseating and transparent right wing sympathy for Zimmerman because of the GUN RIGHTS connection:

Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign, says that despite Zimmerman’s arrest record and record of violence, because of the efforts of the NRA and others, he had a gun permit. Florida is the closest to the NRA vision of an “armed utopia,” he says.

Read more: http://www.care2.com...l#ixzz1u5AunkQD

Yes, Zimmerman was legally carrying a gun and that's a crying shame!

I have to say i admire your stance on this Jingthing.

[flying]

About the nauseating and transparent right wing sympathy for Zimmerman because of the GUN RIGHTS connection:

Personally I think it is more of a racial issue.

Having been involved in Gun Rights for many years ( from a sporting/competitive standpoint )

I have always found the NRA etc. has always wanted tougher laws for crimes committed with a firearm.

Note the difference being not infringe on rights to own but stricter on crimes committed with a firearm.

Freedoms & responsibility go hand in hand....as they should

They have long been strong in their opinion of throw away the key when one has committed a crime with a firearm.

Yes it is obvious there are strong opinions in this case. Whether they be right/left wing propelled or racial I do not know.

Personally I do agree it was handled wrong from the start & all the back pedaling in the world will not fix it now.

The police botched it initially & a fair investigation of the crime scene IMHO cannot be carried out now.

This will not end well I think but again I tend to see it as racially motivated both in event & aftermath.

It will be interesting to watch & I am grateful that at least an attempt to ascertain guilt is now being made.

But again it is after the fact & sadly will never be as complete.

Many things in this story do not add up. It will be a tough one for judge & jury to suss out.

Edited May 6, 2012 by flying

[Jingthing]

Oh please. Sensible people (translation -- liberals) don't think civilians should be able to legally carry guns around in the first place! This American "wild west" gun loving mentality is a mental disease.

[flying]

Oh please. Sensible people (translation -- liberals) don't think civilians should be able to legally carry guns around in the first place! This American "wild west" gun loving mentality is a mental disease.

Could be but again I was only addressing your claim that the support for the shooter was gun rights based alone.

Also if not clear by my post I do think they botched it initially & am glad to see it will now go to trial.

I do wish though that the investigation had been done when the evidence was fresh. Not only after outrage was raised about it.

PS: that American wild west mentality is a trumped up claim.

America has less than half the Thailand murders by gun & more than 4x the population

http://www.nationmas...s-with-firearms

Edited May 6, 2012 by flying

[endure]

Oh please. Sensible people (translation -- liberals) don't think civilians should be able to legally carry guns around in the first place! This American "wild west" gun loving mentality is a mental disease.

Could be but again I was only addressing your claim that the support for the shooter was gun rights based alone.

Also if not clear by my post I do think they botched it initially & am glad to see it will now go to trial.

I do wish though that the investigation had been done when the evidence was fresh. Not only after outrage was raised about it.

PS: that American wild west mentality is a trumped up claim.

America has less than half the Thailand murders by gun & more than 4x the population

http://www.nationmas...s-with-firearms

Trumped up compared to who? The UK has ~20% of the population of the US and 0.1% of the firearm murders according to the website you linked to.

[flying]

Oh please. Sensible people (translation -- liberals) don't think civilians should be able to legally carry guns around in the first place! This American "wild west" gun loving mentality is a mental disease.

Could be but again I was only addressing your claim that the support for the shooter was gun rights based alone.

Also if not clear by my post I do think they botched it initially & am glad to see it will now go to trial.

I do wish though that the investigation had been done when the evidence was fresh. Not only after outrage was raised about it.

PS: that American wild west mentality is a trumped up claim.

America has less than half the Thailand murders by gun & more than 4x the population

http://www.nationmas...s-with-firearms

Trumped up compared to who? The UK has ~20% of the population of the US and 0.1% of the firearm murders according to the website you linked to.

For sure.....But the reason I pointed to/compared to Thailand is that is where many Americans on this forum move to or want to move to.

[kerryk]

Oh please. Sensible people (translation -- liberals) don't think civilians should be able to legally carry guns around in the first place! This American "wild west" gun loving mentality is a mental disease.

Could be but again I was only addressing your claim that the support for the shooter was gun rights based alone.

Also if not clear by my post I do think they botched it initially & am glad to see it will now go to trial.

I do wish though that the investigation had been done when the evidence was fresh. Not only after outrage was raised about it.

PS: that American wild west mentality is a trumped up claim.

America has less than half the Thailand murders by gun & more than 4x the population

http://www.nationmas...s-with-firearms

Trumped up compared to who? The UK has ~20% of the population of the US and 0.1% of the firearm murders according to the website you linked to.

Led by JT with the flanks admirably defended by Endure we all charge ahead into the 6069th debate on the American Wild West and gun control. Get along little dogies get along..... We're heading for the last roundup...

[Scott]

What we are headed for is a closure of the thread.

There comes a point where there is virtually no new posters and intractable opinions that have been voiced endlessly. Eventually the insinuations, baiting, flaming and off-topic posts follow. I have two choices: issue warnings or close the thread.

Stick to the topic.

[TAWP]

Why the fascinating and weird sympathy for the shooter Zimmerman? Is this because of the "gun rights" issue?

I have no sympathy for Zimmerman, but I neither have any pre-conditioned defense for Trayvon either.

I would like this to be handled in a court-room and not by some race-war mongering speakers on stages, on radio, on web-sites or over Twitter.

Have you seen the things being put out?

Edited May 7, 2012 by TAWP

[TAWP]

Yes, Zimmerman was legally carrying a gun and that's a crying shame!

No, it is not. Everyone should have the right to carry.

If we find that he misused that right than that would be a crying shame and he should be punished severely for it.

Get it?

[koheesti]

Oh please. Sensible people (translation -- liberals) don't think civilians should be able to legally carry guns around in the first place! This American "wild west" gun loving mentality is a mental disease.

It is naive to think that if you take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens that gun crime will decrease. Across the country gun crime is highest where there are stricter gun laws. You can point to Zimmerman as an example to prove my first statement wrong, but he is just one out of over 840,000 licensed permit holders in Florida. http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States

Edited May 7, 2012 by koheesti

[Jingthing]

Here are some clues that a "stand your ground" defense is difficult to pull off successfully in Florida:

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/05/14/florida_black_man_denied_stand_your_ground_defense_highlights_controversy_around_trayvon_martin_case_.html

Dooley and Alexander's respective cases come as the Stand Your Ground law, which allows people to respond with deadly force in life-threatening situations, has taken center stage in the wake of the February shooting death of Trayvon Martin. George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed the Florida teen, has claimed he did so only in self-defense. He has since been charged with second-degree murder.

[chuckd]

From the news today:

____________________________________________________

ABC News Exclusive: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations After Trayvon Martin Shooting

By MATT GUTMAN and SENI TIENABESO | ABC News – 5 hrs ago

ABC News Exclusive: Zimmerman Medical …

A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.

Zimmerman faces a second degree murder charge for the Feb. 26 shooting that left the unarmed 17-year-old high school junior dead. Zimmerman has claimed self defense in what he described as a life and death struggle that Martin initiated by accosting him, punching him in the face, then repeatedly bashing his head into the pavement.

http://news.yahoo.com/abc-news-exclusive-zimmerman-medical-report-shows-broken-204911351--abc-news-topstories.html

[tlansford]

I think that it is possible that Zimmerman was attacked and do not want to see him convicted on the Internet without all the evidence in.

As I recall, Zimmerman was following Martin, was told by the police NOT to follow Martin, had a gun, Martin did not, and now the only person who is alive to tell his side of the story is Zimmerman.

It seems a little bit obvious that if Zimmerman had not been following Martin, that he could not possibly been attacked as is his claim.

Re verdicts, the only one that will count will be the one in court.

In any case, as someone mentioned, is the emotion about this case linked to the guns-rights issues, and I think that a good part of it is.

[tlansford]

Yes, Zimmerman was legally carrying a gun and that's a crying shame!

No, it is not. Everyone should have the right to carry.

If we find that he misused that right than that would be a crying shame and he should be punished severely for it.

Get it?

and should I be able to carry a gun anywhere, anytime?

The right to bear arms is not a blank check to carry a weapon anywhere you want.

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts have been removed. The thread is not about liberals vs. conservatives.