Do Soldiers Have Immunity Against Laws?

[tangcoral]

Yesterday my friend along with a coworker were gunned down in broad daylight because of a roadrage.

I'm sure some of probably saw this on the news yesterday.

While driving a company truck he had cutoff a honda wave motorbike rider causing a minor accident with no injuries.

An argument ensued in which the soldier told the two to stay put while he went to get something.

My friend unfortunately obeyed thinking the man was probably left to pickup insurance documents.

Apparently the soldier went home to pickup his 9mm pistol and confronted the two and without warning shot at my friends right temple point blank.

Coworker went to assist his fellow coworker when he was shot in the chest but managed to flee for help.

Cowardly the soldier shot him in the back 5 times as he was running, soldier fled the scene and both victims died at the scene.

Later that day the soldier was identified through multiple witnesses and cctv footage.

What appalls me is that this investigation is said to be handled by the military which obviously cover up the unfortunate incident to protect its own.

Pretty much the police were told to have hands off the investigation.

This has been on the news of many thai website but haven't seen in English sites.

For those that want to see pictures in a new link I found.

http://www.dailynews...th/crime/104047

I also found a news video in thai.

http://www.manager.c...D=9550000052579

Edited April 28, 2012 by tangcoral

[notmyself]

Welcome to Thailand.

[wana]

LIKE THE GENERAL WHO DROVE OVER THE FEMALE DOCTOR AND PUT HER IN A COMA WHO COMPLINED ABOUT HIS PARKING IN HER SPACE OUTSIDE HER HOUSE ETC

police and army matters are kept quiet always ......

[thequietman]

similar to the police, they are beyond reproach. this will be handled in barracks via army court ( ) i believe this is the norm in all military throughout the glode.

only difference here is unless your friend and his mate are connected, then this isnt going anywhere. the families will be offered compensation which they will accept. mainly because if they dont, they will get one in the temple or behind the ear also.

its sickening but hey, this is thailand. scary, isnt it.

[manarak]

It is usual that the military police investigates crimes related to military personnel.

I very much doubt the soldier gets away with it.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Anyone with connections to powerful people, or members of powerful organizations - the military, the police and other mafia networks have immunity.

The "law" itself is just one weapon to be wielded by those with real power over those without, and a relatively minor and irrelevant one most of the time. IMO its main function here is to enable those who've bought into one of its franchises to extract money for their private profit from the sheeple. That and jobs programmes in the bureacracy.

If you are wealthy and/or well-connected you can try to use the law to protect yourself and your property, but will usually only prevail against those with more, when winning isn't important to them, or the stink threatens to go public. Of course people can also just be taken out, often in ways that end up classified as suicide or accident.

The soldier will get into trouble, most likely his career is shot, but only because his crime was public and embarrassing to his superiors, and obviously not advancing their interests, not rational.

Most of the time such realities don't impact our normally pleasant lives in Thailand, especially for those of us that keep our nose clean and our head down, eg don't go messing with the wrong colonel's wife or daughter, don't try to compete or interfere with any of TPTB's scams, etc.

PS Sorry for your loss if that really was a genuine friend. . .

Edited April 28, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[smokie36]

Drive more carefully huh...?

Half a story here I think.

[Soutpeel]

"What appalls me is that this investigation is said to be handled by the military which obviously cover up the unfortunate incident to protect its own"

Let me pose this question, has the US military handed over the Sgt who shot up all the Afgan civilians a while ago for trial by Afgan authorities ? US military personnel raping a South korean girl, a few years ago ?....was he handed over to South Korean authorities for trial ?

You see were I am going with this.....What Thai army is doing in this case is not unusual worldwide and is the accepted norm

[Semper]

LIKE THE GENERAL WHO DROVE OVER THE FEMALE DOCTOR AND PUT HER IN A COMA WHO COMPLINED ABOUT HIS PARKING IN HER SPACE OUTSIDE HER HOUSE ETC

police and army matters are kept quiet always ......

It was his daughter who was driving, but he took the blame as he was in the military and knew litlle would happen to him.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Semper

[Berkshire]

"What appalls me is that this investigation is said to be handled by the military which obviously cover up the unfortunate incident to protect its own"

Let me pose this question, has the US military handed over the Sgt who shot up all the Afgan civilians a while ago for trial by Afgan authorities ? US military personnel raping a South korean girl, a few years ago ?....was he handed over to South Korean authorities for trial ?

You see were I am going with this.....What Thai army is doing in this case is not unusual worldwide and is the accepted norm

Agree. Many more such examples. I would expect the Thai military to take appropriate action. Military justice often times is much more swift and just than their civilian counterpart.

[Litlos]

LIKE THE GENERAL WHO DROVE OVER THE FEMALE DOCTOR AND PUT HER IN A COMA WHO COMPLINED ABOUT HIS PARKING IN HER SPACE OUTSIDE HER HOUSE ETC

police and army matters are kept quiet always ......

It was his daughter who was driving, but he took the blame as he was in the military and knew litlle would happen to him.

Careful there as that is getting awful close to naming names, defamation etc. Also did the military not offer up a colonel as the driver in this case? In the case of the female doctor it is unlikely to go to the general as the only person who actually got a look at the driver was the lady injured, and she has no recollection of events. This information is from a friend of mine who is a member of the family involved.

To OP, depends on how much influence the soldier has will decide what happens. As he was riding a motorcycle it does not sound like he is a member of the elite. There have been cases before where both military and police have been prosecuted and jailed for their crimes, so hopefully the law will take its correct course this time.

Cheers

[Soutpeel]

"What appalls me is that this investigation is said to be handled by the military which obviously cover up the unfortunate incident to protect its own"

Let me pose this question, has the US military handed over the Sgt who shot up all the Afgan civilians a while ago for trial by Afgan authorities ? US military personnel raping a South korean girl, a few years ago ?....was he handed over to South Korean authorities for trial ?

You see were I am going with this.....What Thai army is doing in this case is not unusual worldwide and is the accepted norm

Agree. Many more such examples. I would expect the Thai military to take appropriate action. Military justice often times is much more swift and just than their civilian counterpart.

WOW this must be first....me and "Bershire" actually agreeing on something..

[wana]

LIKE THE GENERAL WHO DROVE OVER THE FEMALE DOCTOR AND PUT HER IN A COMA WHO COMPLINED ABOUT HIS PARKING IN HER SPACE OUTSIDE HER HOUSE ETC

police and army matters are kept quiet always ......

It was his daughter who was driving, but he took the blame as he was in the military and knew litlle would happen to him.

what i heard was ,the daughter ran over the doctor lady IN HER DADS CAR

Which was OWNED and REGISTERED as an Army vehicle

then the general stepped up and said he did it because it was supposed to be his car and of

course ,your right ,nothing much wil happen to a big army general min regards to punishment

he is more than likely ,on a higher level or "untouchable " to such maters because of his position

[h90]

things go first to the Military court.

Than he get kicked out of the Military and it goes to civilian court.

Not uncommon practice.....

[h90]

"What appalls me is that this investigation is said to be handled by the military which obviously cover up the unfortunate incident to protect its own"

Let me pose this question, has the US military handed over the Sgt who shot up all the Afgan civilians a while ago for trial by Afgan authorities ? US military personnel raping a South korean girl, a few years ago ?....was he handed over to South Korean authorities for trial ?

You see were I am going with this.....What Thai army is doing in this case is not unusual worldwide and is the accepted norm

Well that isn't a suitable example. A country that conquers other countries and doing retaliation on civilians with drones can't be an example. In compare to them the Thai army is innocent like a new born baby.

[Soutpeel]

"What appalls me is that this investigation is said to be handled by the military which obviously cover up the unfortunate incident to protect its own"

Let me pose this question, has the US military handed over the Sgt who shot up all the Afgan civilians a while ago for trial by Afgan authorities ? US military personnel raping a South korean girl, a few years ago ?....was he handed over to South Korean authorities for trial ?

You see were I am going with this.....What Thai army is doing in this case is not unusual worldwide and is the accepted norm

Well that isn't a suitable example. A country that conquers other countries and doing retaliation on civilians with drones can't be an example. In compare to them the Thai army is innocent like a new born baby.

Woops...now you have done it...."Kerryk" is going to be along shortly and start blabbering on about Anti-American tripe everyone is posting about Land "O" free and of course we havent talked about p*ssing on dead bodies or burning religious texts yet...

[wintermute]

The military are basically its own ruling party. The Thais didn't read up on their history where various empires and governments have collapsed because they left the military with too much power. They can do whatever they want if they are high up enough on that chain.

[chrisinth]

This is a civil offence, and irregardless of serving in the milatary it should be handled by the civil authorities. As he left the scene to get the firearm, it is premeditated and is murder.

In the real world......................................

[Soutpeel]

This is a civil offence, and irregardless of serving in the milatary it should be handled by the civil authorities. As he left the scene to get the firearm, it is premeditated and is murder.

In the real world......................................

Wrong killing someone is actually a criminal offense not a civil "offense" and a soldier falls, in the first instance, under military law irrespective of the offense committed.....this is the same the world over...in the real world

Again how many US servicemen have been handed over to civilian authorities for offenses committed while serving in the US military ?

Edited April 29, 2012 by Soutpeel

[wana]

its not the same as crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan ............where americans tortured and abused people

thailand is not at war with farangs (not officialy anyway )

this guy should be hung up by the balls for executing two civilians with a army weapon he had access to

because of his trusted position as a soldier

[notmyself]

To OP, depends on how much influence the soldier has will decide what happens. As he was riding a motorcycle it does not sound like he is a member of the elite.

When I was at Samui immigration last November there was a black Harley with 'Immigration' in silver lettering on the fuel tank parked in the staff area. While I was waiting for my visa to be processed I went over for a look and there were others there also. Very nice I said out loud. I fella on his knees looked up and said it was an original to which I replied 'really?'. He pointed to his own Harley parked out front. He went on to say it was a 19 something or other etc etc (I don't know jack about motorbikes other than they are quicker than walking). Fella went on to say that everything he could see on it was original and the cost of such a bike would be well out of the reach of anyone who is not a US$ multi millionaire.

[chrisinth]

This is a civil offence, and irregardless of serving in the milatary it should be handled by the civil authorities. As he left the scene to get the firearm, it is premeditated and is murder.

In the real world......................................

Wrong killing someone is actually a criminal offense not a civil "offense" and a soldier falls, in the first instance, under military law irrespective of the offense committed.....this is the same the world over...in the real world

Again how many US servicemen have been handed over to civilian authorities for offenses committed while serving in the US military ?

Soutpeel, you are of course correct that it is a criminal offence, but still comes under civil law.

As for your comment; "a soldier falls, in the first instance, under military law irrespective of the offense committed.....this is the same the world over...in the real world", really?

When you have a British soldier, on active duty, sentenced to life imprisonment for fatally shooting 2 teenage joyriders crashing through the mobile vehicle checkpoint he was manning because the British Armed Forces (Government) wouldn't back him. There was no military intervention/investigation in this case either, purely civil prossecution. The soldier's name was Lee Clegg and was later cleared for wrongful imprisonment. Funny how short people's memories are!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Clegg

Although the above is slightly off-topic, not about Thailand, it is to prove a point that soldier's, in the real world do not fall directly under milatary law for criminal/civil offenses.

Edited April 29, 2012 by chrisinth

[MikeOxtinks]

Thankfully, we have the ever so great "Google Translate" which gives us a pretty up to date insight into what went on.

"Today (27 Apr) Lt. Col. Matthew Kam Chai Chang Kham Pgs. (Sb. 3) Bang Khun Thian police station. The notification has been shot dead in front of the company's warehouse at 60/14 Soi Ekachai 76, Ekachai Road, across the road and some carbon. I quickly went to investigate the incident. The tax police said Maj. Gen. Lyon ผbk.n. 9 trailers for The Sun lyrics ผbk.n. 9 police Tennant similar ผkk.ss. 9 Bk.n. doing police work ผkk.sn. Thanakrit Chai Khun Thian. Enjoy Col. Sci. Thermal Atrpp Kong. Forensic evidence, medical staff Sw.ss. Siriraj hospital staff Teck Tung Foundation of Ningbo.

At the scene found the bodies of many onlookers standing, Mr. Wong, 38 years old Mani fruits are wearing black. Wear black jeans. I caught up the blood on his feet in Bath. The next warehouse. The wound was shot with a 9 mm pistol into the left temporal, right through a body shot and another shot of the two bodies were found close to Mr. Bush, age 39 years, state parks, gold, cotton white T-shirt. Dancing for three-quarters of the sugar. Guns were fired by a single body of five shots through the back two shots and two persons as employees of Puffin Books.

Also at the scene to find the truck brand new Nissan's big green truck into the rear roof elevation. Registration number of the cabinet and 2 -6411 Genesis to have a sticker affixed to the GNU. Along with the text. Puffin Books. The Religious Affairs. The door has a dent on the left. I also found out a year or ammunition falling into the casing at the scene of eight officers to collect all the evidence.

Of the investigation before the accident that killed the two men who drove the car to act together with the fruits. The driver will then turn to books in the warehouse. During the car. Honda Wave 125 motorcycle brand that I was driving by a different set of physical drives in the left lane. That the truck driver would not see vehicle. The car, motorcycle and two cars collided at the entrance to the warehouse and the damages would be the point. Then I cleared the innocent. The men were dressed to ride with me. Work out and returned with a gun before shooting the two parties to drive their own death and fled quickly.

After the initial assumption that the two vehicles collided, the car is expected to agree the cost is not clear. The other party is not satisfied of the car. Motorcycle taxi to take it home, not far from the scene to bombard the victim died before the second drive. The motorcycle collided with the victim's car to escape. Initially we will call out all the investigations in the area and CCTV monitoring to guide the continued pursuit of the villain. After the incident police suspect the killer is expected to cause it. By now, waiting to collect evidence for the court to issue an arrest warrant will be used to report the allegations continued."

There you go - Clear as mud!

Edited April 29, 2012 by MikeOxtinks

[tangcoral]

Just came back from the open casket viewing,

Sadly my friend has 3 kids and the white shirt guy has a 3yrs old girl.

It was hard seeing the children witness there dad lying dead with half his brain blown out albeit crudely stitched up on the rear exit head wound.

There might be a dim of light to this as the victims have some sort of well connections to not let this go so easily.

Will update you on the updates as they come.

[h90]

The military are basically its own ruling party. The Thais didn't read up on their history where various empires and governments have collapsed because they left the military with too much power. They can do whatever they want if they are high up enough on that chain.

which empires have collapsed because they left the military with too much power???

[notmyself]

The military are basically its own ruling party. The Thais didn't read up on their history where various empires and governments have collapsed because they left the military with too much power. They can do whatever they want if they are high up enough on that chain.

which empires have collapsed because they left the military with too much power???

BOOM!

[beechguy]

"What appalls me is that this investigation is said to be handled by the military which obviously cover up the unfortunate incident to protect its own"

Let me pose this question, has the US military handed over the Sgt who shot up all the Afgan civilians a while ago for trial by Afgan authorities ? US military personnel raping a South korean girl, a few years ago ?....was he handed over to South Korean authorities for trial ?

You see were I am going with this.....What Thai army is doing in this case is not unusual worldwide and is the accepted norm

Not the same thing, this is a Thai soldier in Thailand, the U.S. soldiers in the incidents mentioned, are processed within the SOFA (Status of Forces) or similar agreements with the foreign countries. But, no need to let the facts get in the way is there.

[Soutpeel]

"What appalls me is that this investigation is said to be handled by the military which obviously cover up the unfortunate incident to protect its own"

Let me pose this question, has the US military handed over the Sgt who shot up all the Afgan civilians a while ago for trial by Afgan authorities ? US military personnel raping a South korean girl, a few years ago ?....was he handed over to South Korean authorities for trial ?

You see were I am going with this.....What Thai army is doing in this case is not unusual worldwide and is the accepted norm

Not the same thing, this is a Thai soldier in Thailand, the U.S. soldiers in the incidents mentioned, are processed within the SOFA (Status of Forces) or similar agreements with the foreign countries. But, no need to let the facts get in the way is there.

I believe in the South Korean case, the south Koreans wanted him tried in a Korean court....and the US refused...so much for "agreements" then

Edited April 29, 2012 by Soutpeel

[beechguy]

"What appalls me is that this investigation is said to be handled by the military which obviously cover up the unfortunate incident to protect its own"

Let me pose this question, has the US military handed over the Sgt who shot up all the Afgan civilians a while ago for trial by Afgan authorities ? US military personnel raping a South korean girl, a few years ago ?....was he handed over to South Korean authorities for trial ?

You see were I am going with this.....What Thai army is doing in this case is not unusual worldwide and is the accepted norm

Not the same thing, this is a Thai soldier in Thailand, the U.S. soldiers in the incidents mentioned, are processed within the SOFA (Status of Forces) or similar agreements with the foreign countries. But, no need to let the facts get in the way is there.

I believe in the South Korean case, the south Koreans wanted him tried in a Korean court....and the US refused...so much for "agreements" then

If the agreement was for the cases such as that, to be tried witihin the U.S. Military Justice system, why would the U.S. agree to a change? Those pesky facts again.

As to the actual topic, I don't care if it's the military or civilian system, the soldier should be punished if the op's account is how it actually happened.

[pastitche]

"What appalls me is that this investigation is said to be handled by the military which obviously cover up the unfortunate incident to protect its own"

Let me pose this question, has the US military handed over the Sgt who shot up all the Afgan civilians a while ago for trial by Afgan authorities ? US military personnel raping a South korean girl, a few years ago ?....was he handed over to South Korean authorities for trial ?

You see were I am going with this.....What Thai army is doing in this case is not unusual worldwide and is the accepted norm

Well that isn't a suitable example. A country that conquers other countries and doing retaliation on civilians with drones can't be an example. In compare to them the Thai army is innocent like a new born baby.

Talking about new born babies is not a good idea in relation to US military personnel. I know of many cases in the UK where, having impregnated a British woman, US personnel were immediately repatriated to avoid any action for child support.

Off topic but military are frequently protected and this seems to be particularly true with US personnel.

Edited April 29, 2012 by pastitche