Red Shirts Want An End To Military Coups: Thida

[Lite Beer]

Red shirts want an end to military coups: Thida

Olan Lertrattanadamrongkul

Nation News Agency

Thida

BANGKOK:-- Chairperson says group will double in strength in five years

Red shirt chairwoman Thida Thavornseth said the red-shirt movement will double within five years and will facilitate a legal revamp as well as media reform.

Thida said that if a new Constitution is adopted next year, and the processes of media and justice-system reform are conducted accordingly, by 2017 Thailand should be 60-per-cent democratic. The number of red-shirt supporters by then should have increased to 30 million.

"I think the number of people who agree with us should increase. Consider the labour force; that should be over 30 million people. Eligible voters number over 40 million people. Now we have over 10 million supporters, which can be seen from the election result plus those who did not vote for Pheu Thai," she said.

Asked what Thailand would look like if the red shirts dominated the country, Thida said now that Yingluck Shinawatra had been elected the prime minister, Thailand is 20-per-cent democratic, as there are appointed senators and members of independent organisations.

"I don't know when Thailand will be 100-per-cent democratic. But at least, after the Constitution amendment, we might get 30 per cent to 50 per cent more, as some laws will be better, such as the ones relating to the Senate. Some people might say that some elected people are embarrassing. They are seen to be people from the lower section of society, but they are elected, and that's legitimate," she said. "To have 100-per-cent democracy, first, people must see military coups as the worst kind of conduct. Second, the state mechanism must be entirely linked with the people via direct or indirect elections. We don't expect 100 per cent, but 70-80 per cent is alright."

Thida refused to discuss the status of the monarchy in her definition of democracy. She said it would be up to the Constitution Drafting Assembly.

She said the red shirt movement's main aim is to eradicate military coups and fight for equality. All the senators, if the Senate remains, must be elected, she said.

Thida said the red shirts are not necessarily Thaksin's supporters. Thaksin was only a symbol, as he was abused just like the red shirts.

"Whoever takes the people's side is on our side. If you reject military coups, you are one of us," she said. "Are Thaksin and [Deputy Prime Minister] Chalerm Yoobamrung like me? No. There are a lot of elites in the Pheu Thai Party. But if anyone opposes military coups, they're on our side. There's no need to push anyone out just because they think differently. The point is whether to accept military coups," she said.

She said grassroots people love Thaksin because he served their needs. He became a hero because of the military coup.

She said people in the bureaucratic polity network cannot get over Thaksin because they think the red shirts are acting for Thaksin. This is not true, Thida said.

"Even if Thaksin died today, or if we put Thaksin in a space capsule and shot it out of the Earth, or even General Prem likewise, even if he died today or he was put in a capsule and shot away, will there still be fighting? Would the red shirts end their movements if Prem was dead? No. If something happens to Thaksin, will the red shirts stop? No. They will try harder."

On whether it is possible that the red shirts would split from the Pheu Thai Party, Thida said it depended on whether Pheu Thai remained a political party for the masses.

"Our goal is to get away from the bureaucratic polity, and we need justice. So people came and supported us. If we don't fight, we can't stay. People won't accept us and we are not worth it," Thida said about the red shirts. "But the government's duty is to administer the country until the end of its term. Stay as long as possible without any military coup to topple it. If it doesn't do its duty well, people will blame it and it won't be able to stay.

"We have to consider what kind of political party it is; if it's a party of capitalists who think they have money and can win - many MPs think so - if they don't care about the masses, the red shirts, and only want canvassers or want to change the red shirts into canvassers. In that case, the red shirts will have to decide if it will quit, be part of the party or be a fighting agency," she said.

Asked about the red shirts' path to reconciliation, Thida said the question did not concern the group, as creating reconciliation was not its business, but an issue for the government. The red shirts' duty is to call for justice, she said.

"The people do not have to reconcile with the rulers. The people can reconcile among themselves for peace in the country. The only duty of the people is to fight with the rulers. Do not ask the red shirts how to reconcile. This is not our duty," she said.

"You have to first understand the principle. In this world, there are the rulers and the ruled. We are the ruled, we are abused. How could you ask us to reconcile while our people are still in jail and charged with many cases?" Thida said.

She said the red shirts do not oppose the government's reconciliation effort, but their peaceful campaign is the best reconciliation.

Thida, nevertheless, is known to be an advocate for national reconciliation. In private talks with her red shirt supporters, she reportedly always expresses concerns that the ongoing confrontation will only lead to a lose-lose situation.

She accepted that the government has tried to deliver justice to the red shirts via compensation and rehabilitation measures, as well as bail for red shirt detainees. But these are not sufficient, she said.

Real reconciliation, on the other hand, must start with finding the truth - an area in which there has been very little progress, according to Thida. The red shirts have been misunderstood by the global community as fighting with weapons, she said.

"Don't say that the red shirts do not reconcile. We have been very patient in the past five or six years. Some have been jailed, some died. If we don't reconcile, we must have fighting with weapons. But the government's reconciliation measures, such as pouring water [to pay respects], are childish acts done by adults," she said.

Thida stressed the importance of media reform as she said there was a conspiracy to frame the red shirts.

-- The Nation 2012-05-06

[marquess]

It is only a matter of time before the wannabe new elite realise that the the long term threat to their aspired position is the Red Shirts themselves as represented by the likes of Thida. Mainly because they are interested in reforms that they believe will benefit the masses rather than a new elite simply wishing to replace the old one. Change has to come in this country to the extent that the masses have more of a role to play in the make up of the fabric of the country.

[noitom]

These percentages are just pulled out of a hat. In addition, the Thai culture of military coups and dictatorships have little to do with Thaksin. There were 17 military coups before Thaksin's in 2006. It has to do with the Thai kleptocratic form of rule and order. When the elite kleptocracy feels they are being squeezed by new forces, they initiate a coup. Then the cycle begins again and results in another coup. And then....

[whybother]

"Whoever takes the people's side is on our side. If you reject military coups, you are one of us," she said.

I would suggest that there would be a quite a few that are on the people's side and reject military coups but that do NOT support the red shirts.

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[Scott]

A post containing foul language has been deleted.

[AleG]

If the Red Shirts are so numerous, why isn't Thida the PM? Why hitch their wagon to Thaksin's proxy party?

[LuckyLew]

"Red shirts want an end to military coups: Thida"

and I would like to wake up to a hummer every day

but I cannot see either becoming a reality any time soon

[geovalin]

The long and winding road

is better than the current

... wild and windy night

At least these guys go on, they'll make mistakes for sure but they try.

[Bakseedaa]

There is one born every second... dont ya just luv-em...?

[creck]

She so loves democracy – one would think she had been elected!

If there was any vote casting I didn’t hear about it or who was qualified to vote. Certainly not linked with the people via direct or indirect elections. Not even the mass of the redshirts.

Being against coups is quite fundamental. Good democracy needs rather more than that. It needs free speech and general education to work well.

[pimay11]

Red shirts want an end to military coups: Thida

I suspect the number of people that want an end of the red shirt thugs outnumber them greatly.

[Mosha]

"or if we put Thaksin in a space capsule and shot it out of the Earth"

Now there's a thought.

[rixalex]

What the red shirts attempted whilst Abhisit was in power was to cut short his term by force, by violence, by intimidation. It wasn't democratic. In many ways it was much like a coup attempt. If they had respect for democracy, they would have said, "ok, we don't like the way that Abhisit came to power, but we will respect the democratic principles we preach, and will demonstrate this not by taking to the streets with arms and burning things down, but by trying to get him removed within the law and via the courts, and if this fails, we will simply campaign hard and make sure he is not re-elected at the next election".

[allan michaud]

"or if we put Thaksin in a space capsule and shot it out of the Earth"

Now there's a thought.

No, let Thaksin back in, get him and all the other politicians past and present to meet in parliament to discuss reforms... then shoot parliament into space.

[jayboy]

What the red shirts attempted whilst Abhisit was in power was to cut short his term by force, by violence, by intimidation. It wasn't democratic. In many ways it was much like a coup attempt. If they had respect for democracy, they would have said, "ok, we don't like the way that Abhisit came to power, but we will respect the democratic principles we preach, and will demonstrate this not by taking to the streets with arms and burning things down, but by trying to get him removed within the law and via the courts, and if this fails, we will simply campaign hard and make sure he is not re-elected at the next election".

I have some sympathy with your view here.The problem however was that the unelected elites would not accept the wishes of the Thai people expressed at the ballot box, hence the military coup, army meddling in politics, judicial intervention (making fair use of the law and courts unworkable) etc etc.Therefore it was not feasible simply to buckle down to peaceful campaigning and work on winning the next election.Cynically one might argue the entrenched unelected elites and their nervous middle class hangers on needed a bit of a shock to discourage further interference in the democratic process.The fire next time etc.

[ma91c1an]

What the red shirts attempted whilst Abhisit was in power was to cut short his term by force, by violence, by intimidation. It wasn't democratic. In many ways it was much like a coup attempt. If they had respect for democracy, they would have said, "ok, we don't like the way that Abhisit came to power, but we will respect the democratic principles we preach, and will demonstrate this not by taking to the streets with arms and burning things down, but by trying to get him removed within the law and via the courts, and if this fails, we will simply campaign hard and make sure he is not re-elected at the next election".

I utterly agree.

[phiphidon]

What the red shirts attempted whilst Abhisit was in power was to cut short his term by force, by violence, by intimidation. It wasn't democratic. In many ways it was much like a coup attempt. If they had respect for democracy, they would have said, "ok, we don't like the way that Abhisit came to power, but we will respect the democratic principles we preach, and will demonstrate this not by taking to the streets with arms and burning things down, but by trying to get him removed within the law and via the courts, and if this fails, we will simply campaign hard and make sure he is not re-elected at the next election".

In one very importantant way it was nothing like a coup attempt as the red shirts would not have been in a position to provide themselves with an amnesty.

Interesting that you regard the first way of getting a party removed from office is through the law courts - is that a particular mind set of those who support the "democrat" party - imho it is as demonstrated by the actions following the coup, first military coup, then consolidate with a judicial coup.

Only as a last resort should you consider an election...................

[h90]

If they have 10 million supporter why did they need massive vote buying to get Thaksins clone elected?

I thought people would elect them for free and isn't vote buying undemocratic.

[ginjag]

I personally would rather have army in the red shirt positions, and have all the red shirts defend the country.  There would be more respect in villages and certainly not so many nutters controlling government matters, That would be more democratic than what we have now, and be a better platform for real democracy.

[h90]

What the red shirts attempted whilst Abhisit was in power was to cut short his term by force, by violence, by intimidation. It wasn't democratic. In many ways it was much like a coup attempt. If they had respect for democracy, they would have said, "ok, we don't like the way that Abhisit came to power, but we will respect the democratic principles we preach, and will demonstrate this not by taking to the streets with arms and burning things down, but by trying to get him removed within the law and via the courts, and if this fails, we will simply campaign hard and make sure he is not re-elected at the next election".

In one very importantant way it was nothing like a coup attempt as the red shirts would not have been in a position to provide themselves with an amnesty.

Interesting that you regard the first way of getting a party removed from office is through the law courts - is that a particular mind set of those who support the "democrat" party - imho it is as demonstrated by the actions following the coup, first military coup, then consolidate with a judicial coup.

Only as a last resort should you consider an election...................

what judicial coup?

And if the military is so evil why did they let Samak, Somchai (Thaksins brother in law) and Yingluck (Thaksins sister) be PM?

They could just keep the power themself, or they could make some fraud at the elections or at least do massive vote buying like Thaksin does.

But they didn't do anything.

Maybe the coupists are much more democratic than the Red and Thaksin??

[JayBangkok]

"or if we put Thaksin in a space capsule and shot it out of the Earth"

Now there's a thought.

No, let Thaksin back in, get him and all the other politicians past and present to meet in parliament to discuss reforms... then shoot parliament into space.

Just shoot them is cheaper

[rixalex]

What the red shirts attempted whilst Abhisit was in power was to cut short his term by force, by violence, by intimidation. It wasn't democratic. In many ways it was much like a coup attempt. If they had respect for democracy, they would have said, "ok, we don't like the way that Abhisit came to power, but we will respect the democratic principles we preach, and will demonstrate this not by taking to the streets with arms and burning things down, but by trying to get him removed within the law and via the courts, and if this fails, we will simply campaign hard and make sure he is not re-elected at the next election".

I have some sympathy with your view here.The problem however was that the unelected elites would not accept the wishes of the Thai people expressed at the ballot box, hence the military coup, army meddling in politics, judicial intervention (making fair use of the law and courts unworkable) etc etc.Therefore it was not feasible simply to buckle down to peaceful campaigning and work on winning the next election.Cynically one might argue the entrenched unelected elites and their nervous middle class hangers on needed a bit of a shock to discourage further interference in the democratic process.The fire next time etc.

The argument you seem to be making is that yes, the red shirts are willing to use undemocratic methods if necessary, but in their case they have little choice but to do so, and we must accept the hypocrisy of a group that preaches democracy failing to respect it itself.

OK, but you will of course be aware that a similar argument can be made with regards the military feeling they had little choice in taking the action they did, when they did.

I think if the reds take the position you present here of, sometimes undemocratic methods are justified, the whole premise of what they claim to be fighting against is in question. Of course it is only a claim...

[ianf]

It is clear that Thida hasn't got a clue about what democracy means. Her statements above are risible and in that respect she mirrors her boss exactly. These people are so puerile and so ridiculous it just makes you wonder sometimes .........

Edited May 6, 2012 by ianf

[rixalex]

What the red shirts attempted whilst Abhisit was in power was to cut short his term by force, by violence, by intimidation. It wasn't democratic. In many ways it was much like a coup attempt. If they had respect for democracy, they would have said, "ok, we don't like the way that Abhisit came to power, but we will respect the democratic principles we preach, and will demonstrate this not by taking to the streets with arms and burning things down, but by trying to get him removed within the law and via the courts, and if this fails, we will simply campaign hard and make sure he is not re-elected at the next election".

In one very importantant way it was nothing like a coup attempt as the red shirts would not have been in a position to provide themselves with an amnesty.

They wouldn't have needed an amnesty had they successfully forced Abhisit from his post. They would have been in power.

Interesting that you regard the first way of getting a party removed from office is through the law courts - is that a particular mind set of those who support the "democrat" party - imho it is as demonstrated by the actions following the coup, first military coup, then consolidate with a judicial coup.

Only as a last resort should you consider an election...................

If you feel you can not wait until the next elections, and you feel there is a question of illegality concerning those in power, then of course pursuing legal avenues is the democratic choice you have. It's not the first way, it is the only way. Unless of course you step outside of the bounds of democracy.

[tomross46]

China had Red Guaerd, Cambodia has the Kamer Rouge, Thailand has Red Shirts. All the coups have been financial. The coup that overthrough the monarcky, was because there was a world recession, and the budgets for the miitary and goverment offices were cut. The 2006 coup was not about Thaksin it was about corrupt politicians and their henchmen were raping the country, and taking everything. If this happens again, and if corrupt politiciand start filling up bedrooms with large quantities of cash, than sets see what happens

[jayboy]

The argument you seem to be making is that yes, the red shirts are willing to use undemocratic methods if necessary, but in their case they have little choice but to do so, and we must accept the hypocrisy of a group that preaches democracy failing to respect it itself.

OK, but you will of course be aware that a similar argument can be made with regards the military feeling they had little choice in taking the action they did, when they did.

I think if the reds take the position you present here of, sometimes undemocratic methods are justified, the whole premise of what they claim to be fighting against is in question. Of course it is only a claim...

I strongly prefer the democratic route.My point was that this was effectively closed off by the unelected elites.They simply wouldn't accept the nation's elected choice.The situation is rather different now and instead of rigged courts, military coups, military imposed constitution etc the accomodation is being achieved by back stairs bargaining since the cruder methods have been shown not to work.Of course Thaksin is a huge complicating factor and one wishes like a tumour he could be removed.But without Thaksin or with Thaksin, Thailand has changed fundamentally and in particular old style deference is dead or dying.

The other important factor referring back to the redshirt-army confrontation is that this was a quasi revolutionary episode, and that generates its own energy.It's not really a predictor of the future.

[ableguy]

"or if we put Thaksin in a space capsule and shot it out of the Earth"

Now there's a thought.

And send this crazy female with him.

[Buchholz]

If they have 10 million supporter why did they need massive vote buying to get Thaksins clone elected?

I thought people would elect them for free and isn't vote buying undemocratic.

In the election before last, they even bribed voters in constituencies where they ran unopposed.

They cheated in elections where they were the only candidate.

almost as if it just innate for them that they cheat.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Buchholz

[dru2]

Jatuporn and Thida - dumb and dumber.

[Buchholz]

I personally would rather have army in the red shirt positions, and have all the red shirts defend the country. There would be more respect in villages and certainly not so many nutters controlling government matters, That would be more democratic than what we have now, and be a better platform for real democracy.

The defense of the country would likely improve with the increased experience in weaponry.