U.S. President Barack Obama Says 'Same-Sex Marriage Should Be Legal'

[Colin Yai]

This is about U.S. politics! The UK is way ahead of the U.S. on gay equality issues. Congrats to them, but back to the topic. Yes obviously the vast majority of American right wingers are against same sex marriage equality and even same sex civil unions with the same rights as marriage.

I did not read all of the comments but just want to mention one thing,what Obama said may be a big boost for the gay people out there and help a lot of people to finally take the step to act the way they really feel!No need to hide anymore?

"No need to hide anymore" ?,are you really serious ?

What you don't realize is that in many parts of the US, gay people still need to be deep in the closet just to avoid physical violence and/or being totally stigmatized socially.

What you may not realize that If Obama remains in power and gets this bill passed it ain't going to make a blind bit of difference to people's prejudices in fact it could make it even worse !

[Jingthing]

What you may not realize that If Obama remains in power and gets this bill passed it ain't going to make a blind bit of difference to people's prejudices in fact it could make it even worse !

What are you on about? There is NO bill to pass! Do you have even the slightest understanding of the decades long fight for gay civil rights in America? Again, Obama supported no bill. There is no bill proposed. There is no bill that could possibly pass (the senate needs 60 votes out of 100). In fact, if this fantasy, nonexistent "bill" did pass, all it could do was afford federal recognition of the FEW U.S. states that have state gay marriage! The vast majority do not and so many have state constitutional amendments banning them or recognizing them from other states. You don't get it. This NEEDS to be a constitutional level resolution just like the interracial marriage issue was resolved for the entire nation. At the supreme court level. NO BILL! Come on, folks, if you're going to debate this issue, please do some basic research first.

As far as bigots are concerned. They die. Younger people are much less bigoted. Nobody said legislation or supreme court decisions can fix bigotry. They can't. Again, talking here about civil rights under the law. The ideal of American is it is a nation of laws. That's the best government can do.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Jingthing

[Colin Yai]

You do not have to be a mind reader ,just read the link and give me your opinion on it, and with respect my name is not "dude"

I read it. It's a right wing hit piece. What specifically about it do you have a question about?

Thats all I want to know ,your opinion of it thats it a right wing hit piece ,and of course Obama's earlier words were taken completely out of context

Please be more specific with your points. Otherwise, this is a total waste of time. If you imagined I support everything Obama has done and said on this issue, you imagined incorrectly. He's a politician. Yes I have always believed he completely supports same sex marriage equality, DOES believe it is civil rights issues, and DOES know this needs to be fixed at the federal, supreme court level. No, he doesn't say that. He doesn't feel that he can. I sympathize and understand that. His opponents will not.

I am quite satisfied with your original answer that its a "right wing hit piece" which I deduce means everything contained in the link ,which was what I requested not certain passages in it. .

[Jingthing]

I am quite satisfied with your original answer that its a "right wing hit piece" which I deduce means everything contained in the link ,which was what I requested not certain passages in it. .

I don't consider your posts seriously if you can't be bothered to form your OWN specific questions. Edited May 31, 2012 by Jingthing

[folium]

All this talk about parades and "flamboyant exhibitionism" and "in your face flaunting" is all very bizarre. Not sure where these people who worry about such things have lived. If someone was not into drinking and whoring it would be very easy for them to avoid areas of town where they are likely to encounter such behaviour. Perhaps some of the earlier posters watch sufficient footage of gay pride parades to really work themselves into a frenzy as heaven forbid they might have actually attended one! If people of whatever sexuality, colour, creed or ethnicity wish to make fools of themselves and have a laugh, good luck to them, whether it's a stag party, hen night, or gay parade where's the harm?

But this is all classic smokescreen stuff to disguise fundamental opposition to gay people having the same rights as everyone else. To me whether you are white or black, male or female, Jewish or muslim, gay or straight you should have the same rights and responsibilities enjoyed by all. Stereotyping gays as flamboyant paraders is disingenuous and neanderthal. In most western countries discrimination based on gender or race is now both illegal and unfashionable, discrimination against gay people will hopefully go the same way and same sex marriage is the right place to show this equality of rights and responsibilities.

[Colin Yai]

What you may not realize that If Obama remains in power and gets this bill passed it ain't going to make a blind bit of difference to people's prejudices in fact it could make it even worse !

What are you on about? There is NO bill to pass! Do you have even the slightest understanding of the decades long fight for gay civil rights in America? Again, Obama supported no bill. There is no bill proposed. There is no bill that could possibly pass (the senate needs 60 votes out of 100). In fact, if this fantasy, nonexistent "bill" did pass, all it could do was afford federal recognition of the FEW U.S. states that have state gay marriage! The vast majority do not and so many have state constitutional amendments banning them or recognizing them from other states. You don't get it. This NEEDS to be a constitutional level resolution just like the interracial marriage issue was resolved for the entire nation. At the supreme court level. NO BILL! Come on, folks, if you're going to debate this issue, please do some basic research first.

OK I bow to your superior knowledge of American politics but what ever happen,s peoples prejudices against Gays will still be there just the same as they are against Blacks in certain area,s .

[Jingthing]

All this talk about parades and "flamboyant exhibitionism" and "in your face flaunting" is all very bizarre. Not sure where these people who worry about such things have lived. If someone was not into drinking and whoring it would be very easy for them to avoid areas of town where they are likely to encounter such behaviour. Perhaps some of the earlier posters watch sufficient footage of gay pride parades to really work themselves into a frenzy as heaven forbid they might have actually attended one! If people of whatever sexuality, colour, creed or ethnicity wish to make fools of themselves and have a laugh, good luck to them, whether it's a stag party, hen night, or gay parade where's the harm?

But this is all classic smokescreen stuff to disguise fundamental opposition to gay people having the same rights as everyone else. To me whether you are white or black, male or female, Jewish or muslim, gay or straight you should have the same rights and responsibilities enjoyed by all. Stereotyping gays as flamboyant paraders is disingenuous and neanderthal. In most western countries discrimination based on gender or race is now both illegal and unfashionable, discrimination against gay people will hopefully go the same way and same sex marriage is the right place to show this equality of rights and responsibilities.

Spot on, dude. Absolutely.

[folium]

what ever happen,s peoples prejudices against Gays will still be there just the same as they are against Blacks in certain area,s .

Mercifully the younger generation is far less prejudiced and bigoted when it comes to race & sexuality, and even the present adult generation has moved on considerably. Unless you consider bigotry and prejudice to be positive traits, surely it is important to address and resolve such misunderstandings and misapprehensions?

World English Dictionary

bigot (ˈbɪɡət)

a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race

prej·u·dice

[prej-uh-dis]

1.

an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand orwithout knowledge, thought, or reason..

2.

any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.

3.

unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

Edited May 31, 2012 by folium

[Colin Yai]

I am quite satisfied with your original answer that its a "right wing hit piece" which I deduce means everything contained in the link ,which was what I requested not certain passages in it. .

I don't consider your posts seriously if you can't be bothered to form your OWN specific questions.

I did not ask any specific questions , just your opinion of the link ,which I duly received,Cheers

[chuckd]

what ever happen,s peoples prejudices against Gays will still be there just the same as they are against Blacks in certain area,s .

Mercifully the younger generation is far less prejudiced and bigoted when it comes to race & sexuality, and even the present adult generation has moved on considerably. Unless you consider bigotry and prejudice to be positive traits, surely it is important to address and resolve such misunderstandings and misapprehensions?

World English Dictionary

bigot (ˈbɪɡət)

a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race

prej·u·dice

[prej-uh-dis]

1.

an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand orwithout knowledge, thought, or reason..

2.

any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.

3.

unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

Interestingly, your link seems to indicate even people on the Left can be considered "bigots".

As an example, this would make one think that individuals loudly opposed to the Tea Party movement might also be considered "bigots.

[Jingthing]

Possibly so, but nobody is trying to justify denying tea party people their basic civil rights as so many American factions are trying to do to gay American citizens. Yes that is the fight and that is the argument that is destined for the supreme court. American gay citizens being denied the same civil rights as their heterosexual fellow citizens ... UNFAIRLY.

[folium]

what ever happen,s peoples prejudices against Gays will still be there just the same as they are against Blacks in certain area,s .

Mercifully the younger generation is far less prejudiced and bigoted when it comes to race & sexuality, and even the present adult generation has moved on considerably. Unless you consider bigotry and prejudice to be positive traits, surely it is important to address and resolve such misunderstandings and misapprehensions?

World English Dictionary

bigot (ˈbɪɡət)

a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race

prej·u·dice

[prej-uh-dis]

1.

an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand orwithout knowledge, thought, or reason..

2.

any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.

3.

unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

Interestingly, your link seems to indicate even people on the Left can be considered "bigots".

As an example, this would make one think that individuals loudly opposed to the Tea Party movement might also be considered "bigots.

Of course, narrow-minded intolerance is not monopolised by any group within society.

The key word, and the answer to your Tea Party opponents point, is "intolerance". Typical definition of intolerance:

"unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect contrary opinions or beliefs, persons of different races or backgrounds, etc."

An opponent of any group or attitude need not be a bigot. Sadly many opponents of gay rights are classic bigots due to their intolerance and prejudices. If you argue for equal rights and responsibilities for all you cannot be accused of being a bigot, as even if you do not support or agree with some of the attitudes or behaviour of others you can still tolerate and respect them.

"I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write."

Voltaire, letter to M. le Riche, February 6, 1770

Edited May 31, 2012 by folium

[koheesti]

All this talk about parades and "flamboyant exhibitionism" and "in your face flaunting" is all very bizarre. Not sure where these people who worry about such things have lived. If someone was not into drinking and whoring it would be very easy for them to avoid areas of town where they are likely to encounter such behaviour. Perhaps some of the earlier posters watch sufficient footage of gay pride parades to really work themselves into a frenzy as heaven forbid they might have actually attended one! If people of whatever sexuality, colour, creed or ethnicity wish to make fools of themselves and have a laugh, good luck to them, whether it's a stag party, hen night, or gay parade where's the harm?

But this is all classic smokescreen stuff to disguise fundamental opposition to gay people having the same rights as everyone else. To me whether you are white or black, male or female, Jewish or muslim, gay or straight you should have the same rights and responsibilities enjoyed by all. Stereotyping gays as flamboyant paraders is disingenuous and neanderthal. In most western countries discrimination based on gender or race is now both illegal and unfashionable, discrimination against gay people will hopefully go the same way and same sex marriage is the right place to show this equality of rights and responsibilities.

Spot on, dude. Absolutely.

Yeah, well, back here on planet Earth, if you are trying to win support from the masses, you need to appeal to the masses, not alienate them or frighten them with what to them is weird behavior. Politicians across the spectrum know how to appeal to the masses to get votes. They don't get in their face and freak them out. Label it anyway you want or whine about it, but you won't win anybody over and the rights you so desperately want (and deserve) will be pushed further down the road.

[Scott]

All this talk about parades and "flamboyant exhibitionism" and "in your face flaunting" is all very bizarre. Not sure where these people who worry about such things have lived. If someone was not into drinking and whoring it would be very easy for them to avoid areas of town where they are likely to encounter such behaviour. Perhaps some of the earlier posters watch sufficient footage of gay pride parades to really work themselves into a frenzy as heaven forbid they might have actually attended one! If people of whatever sexuality, colour, creed or ethnicity wish to make fools of themselves and have a laugh, good luck to them, whether it's a stag party, hen night, or gay parade where's the harm?

But this is all classic smokescreen stuff to disguise fundamental opposition to gay people having the same rights as everyone else. To me whether you are white or black, male or female, Jewish or muslim, gay or straight you should have the same rights and responsibilities enjoyed by all. Stereotyping gays as flamboyant paraders is disingenuous and neanderthal. In most western countries discrimination based on gender or race is now both illegal and unfashionable, discrimination against gay people will hopefully go the same way and same sex marriage is the right place to show this equality of rights and responsibilities.

Absolutely spot on.

[chuckd]

what ever happen,s peoples prejudices against Gays will still be there just the same as they are against Blacks in certain area,s .

Mercifully the younger generation is far less prejudiced and bigoted when it comes to race & sexuality, and even the present adult generation has moved on considerably. Unless you consider bigotry and prejudice to be positive traits, surely it is important to address and resolve such misunderstandings and misapprehensions?

World English Dictionary

bigot (ˈbɪɡət)

a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race

prej·u·dice

[prej-uh-dis]

1.

an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand orwithout knowledge, thought, or reason..

2.

any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.

3.

unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

Interestingly, your link seems to indicate even people on the Left can be considered "bigots".

As an example, this would make one think that individuals loudly opposed to the Tea Party movement might also be considered "bigots.

Of course, narrow-minded intolerance is not monopolised by any group within society.

The key word, and the answer to your Tea Party opponents point, is "intolerance". Typical definition of intolerance:

"unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect contrary opinions or beliefs, persons of different races or backgrounds, etc."

An opponent of any group or attitude need not be a bigot. Sadly many opponents of gay rights are classic bigots due to their intolerance and prejudices. If you argue for equal rights and responsibilities for all you cannot be accused of being a bigot, as even if you do not support or agree with some of the attitudes or behaviour of others you can still tolerate and respect them.

"I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write."

Voltaire, letter to M. le Riche, February 6, 1770

Naw, I think "bigot" fits the bill pretty well.

But then it is all semantics anyway.

[koheesti]

All this talk about parades and "flamboyant exhibitionism" and "in your face flaunting" is all very bizarre. Not sure where these people who worry about such things have lived. If someone was not into drinking and whoring it would be very easy for them to avoid areas of town where they are likely to encounter such behaviour. Perhaps some of the earlier posters watch sufficient footage of gay pride parades to really work themselves into a frenzy as heaven forbid they might have actually attended one! If people of whatever sexuality, colour, creed or ethnicity wish to make fools of themselves and have a laugh, good luck to them, whether it's a stag party, hen night, or gay parade where's the harm?

But this is all classic smokescreen stuff to disguise fundamental opposition to gay people having the same rights as everyone else. To me whether you are white or black, male or female, Jewish or muslim, gay or straight you should have the same rights and responsibilities enjoyed by all. Stereotyping gays as flamboyant paraders is disingenuous and neanderthal. In most western countries discrimination based on gender or race is now both illegal and unfashionable, discrimination against gay people will hopefully go the same way and same sex marriage is the right place to show this equality of rights and responsibilities.

Absolutely spot on.

Not at all.

[Colin Yai]

All this talk about parades and "flamboyant exhibitionism" and "in your face flaunting" is all very bizarre. Not sure where these people who worry about such things have lived. If someone was not into drinking and whoring it would be very easy for them to avoid areas of town where they are likely to encounter such behaviour. Perhaps some of the earlier posters watch sufficient footage of gay pride parades to really work themselves into a frenzy as heaven forbid they might have actually attended one! If people of whatever sexuality, colour, creed or ethnicity wish to make fools of themselves and have a laugh, good luck to them, whether it's a stag party, hen night, or gay parade where's the harm?

But this is all classic smokescreen stuff to disguise fundamental opposition to gay people having the same rights as everyone else. To me whether you are white or black, male or female, Jewish or muslim, gay or straight you should have the same rights and responsibilities enjoyed by all. Stereotyping gays as flamboyant paraders is disingenuous and neanderthal. In most western countries discrimination based on gender or race is now both illegal and unfashionable, discrimination against gay people will hopefully go the same way and same sex marriage is the right place to show this equality of rights and responsibilities.

Spot on, dude. Absolutely.

Yeah, well, back here on planet Earth, if you are trying to win support from the masses, you need to appeal to the masses, not alienate them or frighten them with what to them is weird behavior. Politicians across the spectrum know how to appeal to the masses to get votes. They don't get in their face and freak them out. Label it anyway you want or whine about it, but you won't win anybody over and the rights you so desperately want (and deserve) will be pushed further down the road.

Yeah Khoeesti in a nutshell you have it right ,sadly in many cases the prejudices belong well and truly to the enemy's of free speech and choice, who brand one as some sort of bigot just because someones thoughts does not dovetail with theirs or in other words the "thought police" ,laughable really ain't it . Edited May 31, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Scott]

A very convoluted post.

The point is simple, for some of you being gay is OK (although it really isn't), as long as people don't look gay, or act gay. As long as they deny who they are and how they are, you can accept them.

[Colin Yai]

How do you"

A very convoluted post.

The point is simple, for some of you being gay is OK (although it really isn't), as long as people don't look gay, or act gay. As long as they deny who they are and how they are, you can accept them.

Simple question, how does any one "look or act,s straight " compare in comparison to some one who "looks and acts gay" Pray tell me whats the difference?, Just how does any one look or act who is gay? Edited May 31, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Scott]

How does one act straight? I don't know. I've never tried it.

What is interesting is the number of people who just don't get the argument. The President does. JT does and Folium does.

[Steely Dan]

All this talk about parades and "flamboyant exhibitionism" and "in your face flaunting" is all very bizarre. Not sure where these people who worry about such things have lived. If someone was not into drinking and whoring it would be very easy for them to avoid areas of town where they are likely to encounter such behaviour. Perhaps some of the earlier posters watch sufficient footage of gay pride parades to really work themselves into a frenzy as heaven forbid they might have actually attended one! If people of whatever sexuality, colour, creed or ethnicity wish to make fools of themselves and have a laugh, good luck to them, whether it's a stag party, hen night, or gay parade where's the harm?

But this is all classic smokescreen stuff to disguise fundamental opposition to gay people having the same rights as everyone else. To me whether you are white or black, male or female, Jewish or muslim, gay or straight you should have the same rights and responsibilities enjoyed by all. Stereotyping gays as flamboyant paraders is disingenuous and neanderthal. In most western countries discrimination based on gender or race is now both illegal and unfashionable, discrimination against gay people will hopefully go the same way and same sex marriage is the right place to show this equality of rights and responsibilities.

I think you need to be a little careful here. I agree with your first paragraph, but in the second you go too far by arriving at some calculus type conclusion that any opposition to Obama's statement is somehow a bigot (backed up by dictionary definitions I might add). Well perhaps some people object to this being made into a political football, or are unaware of the purported catch 22 position proponents of gay marriage state they are in.

[Steely Dan]

How does one act straight? I don't know. I've never tried it.

A friend of mine did for 20 years, till he was outed, at which point our circle of friends, to a man, asked why the hell he kept it a secret for so long.

[koheesti]

A very convoluted post.

The point is simple, for some of you being gay is OK (although it really isn't), as long as people don't look gay, or act gay. As long as they deny who they are and how they are, you can accept them.

As I wrote earlier, EVERYBODY is expected to act in a certain way in public - regardless of sexual orientation. You can be openly gay and still dress and behave in a mature, respectable manner within what your culture or society dictates as acceptable behavior. Straight people have been doing it for centuries. It's boring as shit, but that's one of the small sacrifices we make to live in a civilized society. However, it seems one group wants to be exempt so they act like everyday is Mardi Gras and anyone who doesn't like it is a homophobic bigot.

[folium]

Yeah, well, back here on planet Earth, if you are trying to win support from the masses, you need to appeal to the masses, not alienate them or frighten them with what to them is weird behavior. Politicians across the spectrum know how to appeal to the masses to get votes. They don't get in their face and freak them out. Label it anyway you want or whine about it, but you won't win anybody over and the rights you so desperately want (and deserve) will be pushed further down the road.

Seems like it is you that needs to wake up and see what is happening around you.

The majority of US people questioned on the subject of same-sex marriage now support it and the trend since 2004 is remorselessly in favour of it. So not quite sure where your masses fearful of "weird" behaviour come into it. Smart politicians will always climb aboard a train that's rolling, unless of course they represent some constituency clinging on to god, guns, distrust of people not like them, anti-immigrant sentiment and protectionism (to paraphrase a rather controversial statement).

There is no need for labelling or whining as it would appear that those who cannot reconcile themselves to accept gay people, gay lifestyles and same-sex marriage will look increasingly weird themselves. Rather like hold-out segregationists or male chauvinists, they need to get over it, there's no going back to such discrimination and the world is a better place without it.

Edited May 31, 2012 by folium

[folium]

A very convoluted post.

The point is simple, for some of you being gay is OK (although it really isn't), as long as people don't look gay, or act gay. As long as they deny who they are and how they are, you can accept them.

As I wrote earlier, EVERYBODY is expected to act in a certain way in public - regardless of sexual orientation. You can be openly gay and still dress and behave in a mature, respectable manner within what your culture or society dictates as acceptable behavior. Straight people have been doing it for centuries. It's boring as shit, but that's one of the small sacrifices we make to live in a civilized society. However, it seems one group wants to be exempt so they act like everyday is Mardi Gras and anyone who doesn't like it is a homophobic bigot.

Either you know absolutely no gay people or you have been living somewhere very strange! Do you really think that all gay people prance around in fancy dress, kissing each other? Being gay does not mean you dress different, look different or even act different, you just happen to have a different love life. Gay people cover the spectrum just like straight people, from decent to scum, from intelligent to dumb, etc etc

Homophobic bigots are those who cannot get their heads around this simple fact, hence the whole fuss over same-sex marriage when gay peope want to do the most boring, old-fashioned conservative thing in the world and get married to express their feelings and reap the rewards financial and legal that come with marriage that straight people have enjoyed for centuries.

[Jingthing]

And the beat goes on.

This is the core of how and why gay people ARE going to win full equal civil rights someday:

Defense of Marriage Act unconstitutional, federal appeals court declares

A unanimous panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the First Circuit said the act, which was signed by President Clinton and denies federal economic and other benefits for married people from same-sex couples married in states where it is legal, could not be justified under current precedents that protect minorities and other groups from discrimination.

http://www.washingto...xO4U_story.html Edited May 31, 2012 by Jingthing

[koheesti]

A very convoluted post.

The point is simple, for some of you being gay is OK (although it really isn't), as long as people don't look gay, or act gay. As long as they deny who they are and how they are, you can accept them.

As I wrote earlier, EVERYBODY is expected to act in a certain way in public - regardless of sexual orientation. You can be openly gay and still dress and behave in a mature, respectable manner within what your culture or society dictates as acceptable behavior. Straight people have been doing it for centuries. It's boring as shit, but that's one of the small sacrifices we make to live in a civilized society. However, it seems one group wants to be exempt so they act like everyday is Mardi Gras and anyone who doesn't like it is a homophobic bigot.

Either you know absolutely no gay people or you have been living somewhere very strange! Do you really think that all gay people prance around in fancy dress, kissing each other? Being gay does not mean you dress different, look different or even act different, you just happen to have a different love life. Gay people cover the spectrum just like straight people, from decent to scum, from intelligent to dumb, etc etc

That's what I've been saying. Some other posters here implied that the prancing part is "acting gay" and I disagreed.

[koheesti]

Yeah, well, back here on planet Earth, if you are trying to win support from the masses, you need to appeal to the masses, not alienate them or frighten them with what to them is weird behavior. Politicians across the spectrum know how to appeal to the masses to get votes. They don't get in their face and freak them out. Label it anyway you want or whine about it, but you won't win anybody over and the rights you so desperately want (and deserve) will be pushed further down the road.

Seems like it is you that needs to wake up and see what is happening around you.

You show a nice chart and JT says it could be 50-100 years before same sex marriage is approved. What I'm saying is the same sex marriage advocates can bring acceptance about faster by highlighting similarities instead of the more wild fringes. For example, saying "gays are like anyone else, want to be happy like anyone else, want to live and love like anyone else, but they are just attracted to the same sex, that's all" will bring about acceptance faster than catchy, aggressive chants of "we're here, we're queer, get used to it!" while dressed up flamboyantly like always shown on TV whenever a gay pride parade rolls through town.

I remember one gay rights event on the Mall in Washington DC about 20 years ago. On TV they showed two flamers (is that an acceptable term - or a slur?) on stage with guitars singing a "be all you can be" Army recruiting song. That's all in good fun, but when the straight masses who might lean toward the bigoted side see it, it only makes matters worse. It does NOT make them think, "oh, wow, I'm now convinced that we really should let gays serve openly in the military". Have a party, have a parade, have a good time - but be aware that you may be giving bigots ammo to use against you. That is reality. A fact of life. Label people homophobic or bigoted if it makes you feel better, but the blame for that can be spread pretty wide.

[Jingthing]

This rhetoric about gays, "flamers" yes that IS a slur dude, vs. socially "acceptable" gays reminds me the way bigots used talk about African Americans: uppity n-words vs. credit to his race. The 50 to 100 year thing basically is related to how things go in the supreme court with supreme court changes, timings of presidential elections, and how much impact the winning cases will have. Some cases may have minor impact but the goal is a "super" case like the one that made banning intterracial marriage impossible in all 50 states. Polls show there is ALREADY majority support for legalizing same sex marriage, so that isn't the problem anymore. The makeup of the supreme court IS the problem. So it might be 50 to 100 years but it could also be 2 to 10 years. Nobody knows.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Jingthing

[Exsexyman]

Those seedy parades are a turnoff for most solid citizens for sure, but the "Dykes on Bikes" at the beginning of the San Francisco one are kind of fun.

UG As stated previously I have no problem with Gays whatsoever ,but I do think that they do their "Crusade" a slight injustice by these Parades and "gay pride" etc, I cannot think of any similar sort of parades world wide to signify or glorify straight sex , <deleted> if thats what they want get on with it but don't try and ram into my face by all this exhibitionism ,also reading Dans excellent link in his post #291 leads me rightly or wrongly to one conclusion and that is Obama's decision was made purely on political expediency .

Oh dear, as soon as someone says "i have no problem with gays whatsoever, BUT", or "I have no problem with blacks BUT", or "I have no problems with Muslims BUT", we all know what is going to follow. At least have the courage of your convictions, cut out the BS. Of course you have a problem with gay people, your posts on this topic make this obvious. You are doing yourself no favours by pretending otherwise.