Divorce - Wife Is After Foreign Assets.

[A1Str8]

I would have a little chat with her, she wouldn't be after any assets in the future that's guaranteed.

[Seastallion]

I presume you were married in Thailand, without a prenuptial agreement. That means that all assets that were acquired DURING he marriage will be divided, unless at the time of divorce an agreement saying otherwise was made.

So if you had 100,000 before the marriage and now have 200,000 you split only 100,000 with the ex, not the full 200,000. Debts are also assets and will also be split, and of course it is not only about your assets but also hers.

The rule applies to all your and her assets and includes assets abroad. That the marriage is not registered in Oz makes no difference, there was a legal marriage (and divorce). There are several treaties regarding divorce and splitting of assets and normally the law of the country where one was married will be applied regarding the division of property.

Yes, only half of what was acquired during the marriage, but there are other considerations in NZ law, which is similar to Aus law.....for example, "contribution".

Contribution means that if the guy bought assets within the marriage with his savings, and worked to support the wife, but she did not contribute anything ("anything" can include house-keeping, cooking, child-rearing), and he also did the laundry and cleaning etc, she may end up with less. Just as if he bought with his savings but didn't work and she worked for household money and kept house, she has an argument for more than half.

"The marital home" is another aspect. If he owned it outright before the marriage, but they as a couple settled in it, it becomes common property....but if he showed that she did nothing, just went out with the girls, played FB, and he had to hire a house-cleaner, then her contribution was zero and he has an argument not to give her half of the family home.

[BB24]

Like Kenny202 and a few others, I too have been researching this issue for quite a while – and I agree with what he and many others have said. If you (male) are an Australian Citizen or are Domicile in Australia (it is considered to be your home country) and you are married to a Thai (female), then she (or her Lawyer) can lodge a Divorce proceeding (assets/custody/maintenance etc.) in the Aust Family Court. And she does not even need to go to Australia to do it, and the marriage does not have to be formally 'recognised' in Australia. I decided to check this right before I came, and have again since I am now here - here is the final proof (I have edited size/line breaks/names – not related content):

------------------------------------------------

From: Bob [MY ALIAS NAME)]
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: Australian Family Court Procedures Standing

Hi - I am an Australian citizen who lives in Thailand and am married to a Thai citizen who also lives in Thailand.
We married in Thailand over 5 years ago and although I have returned occasionally to visit family/friends, my Thai wife has never been to Australia.
Neither of us have any children from this marriage , nor any previous relationships/marriages.

We have separated for about a year now, and we are going through the processes of getting divorced in Thailand (not as easy as in Australia).
It is becoming a little ‘argumentative’ and it will probably take another year or so if the arguments persist (she is fine, her Lawyer is not).
My Thai wife’s Lawyer is now threatening to engage an Australian lawyer and apply to the Australian Family Court for a divorce, on behalf of my Thai wife, if I do not ‘comply’ on some issues.
This is being done as a ‘tactic’ to try and force a better deal from our joint properties in Thailand, as my investment house in Australia (I bought it over 20 years ago) is not recognised as ‘marital property’ in Thailand.
I have searched the Family Law site and other Federal Government sites, as well as many private sites and forums, and the advice I have found is (at best) conflicting or confused.

Are you able to advise me if a Thai citizen can apply from overseas to the Australian Family Court for a divorce from an Australian citizen.
regards,
Bob Brown.

(Name Edited): Please bear with me while we consider your questions.

Bob: Thank you.

(Name Edited): To apply for a divorce in Australia you must have been separated for twelve months.
You or your spouse must fit into one of the following categories:
*Regard Australia as your home and intend to live in Australia indefinitely;
*Are an Australian citizen by birth, descent or by grant of Australian Citizenship:
*Ordinarily live in Australia and have done so for 12 months immediately prior to filing for divorce.
To prove the above criteria you will need to provide supporting documentation when you file the application:
A marriage certificate that shows you were born in Australia OR
A copy of a valid visa/passport showing the date of arrival as on year prior to filing OR
Australian Citizenship Certificate.
You will also need to provide a photocopy of your marriage certificate if you are proving your eligibility to file in some other way.
Would you like me to provide you with information on how to file an Application for Divorce with the court?

Bob: Sorry - perhaps I didn't make it clear. The question relates to whether or not my Thai wife (who is in Thailand) can apply to the Court for a Divorce of our Thailand marriage - I live in Thailand too.

(Name Edited): A person can file for divorce in Australia even if they were married overseas as long as they qualify (based on the above critera).

Bob: So if I may clarify that - a person does not have to be in Australia to lodge a dicorce application with the court - am I right in saying that?

(Name Edited): Correct, but they will need to have some Australian address as address for service where court can send documents.

Bob: One more if I may please. A person does not have to be an Australian citizen or have to live in Australia to apply to the court for a divorce - as long as their spouse meets one of the criterion (eg. Australian Citizen)

(Name Edited): Correct, one party needs to meet the criteria.

Bob: Thank you (Name Edited) - that has clarified things for me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK then - that seemed clear, but as Ronald Reagan said (always verify) - I checked it again and got this answer today:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 February 2015 1:27 PM
To: Bob
Subject: RE: Australian Family Court Procedures Standing [DLM=For-Official-Use-Only]

Dear Bob,
1. Yes, you must provide an address for service in Australia.
2. Yes, as long as one of the parties meet the criteria.

Regards,
(name deleted)
Client Service Officer
Family Court | Federal Circuit Court
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bob" <>
To: <[email protected]>,
Date: 11/02/2015 05:18 PM
Subject: RE: Australian Family Court Procedures Standing [sEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Hi (name deleted) - thanks for send that information – much appreciated.
If I may – could I clarify a couple of things please?
1. A person does not have to be in Australia to lodge a divorce application with the court – but they will need an Australian address for notices and documents – is that correct?
2. A person does not have to be an Australian citizen or have to live in Australia to apply to the Court for a divorce - as long as their spouse meets one of the criterion (eg. is an Australian Citizen) – is that also correct?
regards,
Bob.
---------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
To: Bob
Subject: Re: Australian Family Court Procedures Standing [sEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Dear Bob,
Thank you for your enquiry received by the National Enquiry Centre.
When can I apply for a divorce in Australia?
Once you have been separated for twelve months. You cannot sign and file an Application for Divorce until have you have been separated for at least 12 months and one day.
If you or your spouse can answer yes to one of the following criteria:
* Regard Australia as home and intend to live in Australia indefinitely (you will need to file a photocopy of a valid visa or your passport showing the date of arrival at least one year prior); or
* Are an Australian citizen by birth, descent or grant of Australian Citizenship (you will need to file a photocopy of your citizenship certificate); or
* Ordinarily live in Australia and have done so for 12 months immediately before filing for divorce.
If you have been married less than two years you will need to file a counselling certificate - for more information see the fact sheet Have you been married for less than two years?
To obtain a certificate you will need to attend counselling to discuss the possibility of reconciliation with your spouse. To arrange counselling contact The Family Relationship Advice Line (FRAL) on 1800 050 321. If you are unable to attend counselling you will need to obtain permission from the court to apply for a divorce by filing an Affidavit setting out why you and your spouse have not attended counselling at the same time you file the Application for Divorce. This could be because you cannot locate your spouse and you should include what attempts you have made to find them or they refuse to attend or there may be special circumstances e.g. family violence and it is not safe for you to attend counselling.
Regards,
(name deleted)
Client Service Officer
Family Court | Federal Circuit Court
1300 352 000
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Bob" < >
To: <[email protected]>,
Subject: Australian Family Court Procedures Standing

Hi,
I am an Australian citizen who lives in Thailand and am married to a Thai citizen who also lives in Thailand.
We married in Thailand over 5 years ago and although I have returned occasionally to visit family/friends, my Thai wife has never been to Australia.
Neither of us have any children from this marriage , nor any previous relationships/marriages.
We have separated for about a year now, and we are going through the processes of getting divorced in Thailand (not as easy as in Australia).
It is becoming a little ‘argumentative’ and it will probably take another year or so if the arguments persist (she is fine, her Lawyer is not).
My Thai wife’s Lawyer is now threatening to engage an Australian lawyer and apply to the Australian Family Court for a divorce, on behalf of my Thai wife, if I do not ‘comply’ on some issues.
This is being done as a ‘tactic’ to try and force a better deal from our joint properties in Thailand, as my investment house in Australia (I bought it over 20 years ago) is not recognised as ‘marital property’ in Thailand.
I have searched the Family Law site and other Federal Government sites, as well as many private sites and forums, and the advice I have found is (at best) conflicting or confused.
Are you able to advise me if a Thai citizen can apply from overseas to the Australian Family Court for a divorce from an Australian citizen.
regards,
Bob Brown.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

So that confirms the fact that a Thai Wife can lodge a divorce with the Australian Family Court.

However – there is some good news for Aussies living with a Thai girlfriend (for some).

In Australia as of Feb2015, the Family Law Court recognises de facto relationships, and as of 2009 a de facto can apply to the Family Court for a divorce as has the same rights as a married person.

But there are conditions regarding the de facto relationships and most of them are explained here: http://www.familylawcourts.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/FLC/Home/Separation+and+Divorce/

In which States and Territories do the new laws apply?

The new laws apply to couples whose de facto relationship has a geographical connection with New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland, Tasmania, the Australian Capital Territory, the Northern Territory, Norfolk Island, Christmas Island, the Cocos (Keeling) Islands or, from 1 July 2010, South Australia. Where orders are sought in the Family Law Courts, the new laws will apply if the couple were ordinarily resident in one of those States or Territories when their de facto relationship broke down.

Alternatively, the new laws will also apply where court orders are sought if:

• the couple were ordinarily resident in one or more of those States or Territories during at least one third of their de facto relationship, or
• the party applying for the order made substantial financial or non-financial contributions to property or as a homemaker or parent in one or more of those States or Territories

provided that one of the parties is ordinarily resident in one of the States or Territories when the application to the court is made.

Therefore, as long as the laws stay the way they currently are (there are no guarantees that the feminazis will not push through more anti-male changes) if you live with your Thai girlfriend, but do not marry her in Thailand, then she cannot apply to the Australian Family Court for a divorce as a de facto and seek a settlement/judgement there against any assets you may have in Australia. I expect that the next ‘iteration’ of a Labour Gay-Greenie alliance will consider making changes so therefore it would be wise to plan ahead. I have a Plan A and a Plan B – happy to share:

----------------------------------------------

PLAN A : Do not get married (officially).

PLAN B: Applicable if for some reason I officially maried my Thai girlfriend (that is possible), or the Laws are changed in Australia regarding de factos overseas being recognised by the Courts.

The only grounds for a divorce in Australia are 12 months seperation – and a divorce cannot be applied for until that 12 months period has occurred.

If the laws are changed in Australia and we are still together, then I will officially marry her in Thailand (if she will have me).

Part of that process will be the implementation of a detailed and iron clad pre-nuptual agreement (as much as one can be iron clad).

Within that pre-nup will be detailed lists (and proof) of all assets in Australia held prior to the relationship starting (already done and stored).

Within that pre-nup will be the agreement for a 50/50 split of all assets acquired/held in Thailand – and acceptance of no claim against any assets in Australia (unless moved from Thailand to Australia).

The Thai courts will readily accept a pre-nup (meaning not over rule it) if it is fair and equitable – given a lack of any ‘incentive’ from one party to do otherwise of course J

Any asset that I bring into Thailand since the relationship started, I have already accepted (and will do so in future) is done on the basis that if we ever marry and divorce it will be split 50-50.

Once married, should we ever split up , then I will immediately implement divorce proceedings in Thailand and try to make sure it is completed before the 12 months is up (lawyer already engaged).

All property acquisitions in Thailand and money transfers from Australia are being done on the basis of a 50/50 split if the relationship fails.

All financial arrangements and any property is (and always will be) either owned by myself or my Thai girlffiend – nothing will ever be done in joint names – no joint accounts and no joint agreements.

I have been planning this for a while – a vasectomy was undertaken many years ago – and is STRONGLY RECOMMENDED (all above strategies are invalid if you have a child).

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PS – JUSTASKING2 ?? - has your situation been concluded? what was your outcome mate? does the above fit in with your experience?

[kian246]

Other readers should learn from this: no formal marriage. Stay in control.

[Rod Wallop]

Couldn't one remove assets from Australia before the divorce, or during the 12 month period?

[BB24]

Couldn't one remove assets from Australia before the divorce, or during the 12 month period?

Unfortunately, that can (and will) be deemed by the Family Court as deliberately attempting to reduce your assets prior to the divorce settlement, so as to reduce any financial settlement payment obligation you have as a result of the divorce. The Family Court would then include those assets in the financial settlement they impose, and then obtain an injunction against any overseas assets you have - remember the assets will have a record of the transfer out of Australia. The ony way I can see that strategy working, is if you did it over a long period of time well before any divorce - or before the marriage started. And if you bring assets into Thailand to avoid the Aust Family Court, they will become part of any financial settlement the Thai Court imposes if/when the divorce proceeding is done here. At this point, I would caution anyone against doing anything 'dubious' with regards to financial assets into and out of Thailand, leading up to or during a divorce. Unlike in Australia, where they will only go to extremes after a long period of 'pursuit', in Thailand they can arrest and detain you very easily - I strongly advise not to take that risk.

The best way to deal with what may be a 'looming' divorce, or in the lead up to getting married, is to get advice and plan well ahead and put things in place. The Aust Family Court is a bastion of feminazis that have an extremely strong anti-male bias, but they also have rules and proceedures that they must follow. Whilst it is true that all the assets of both parties in a marriage are on the table when it comes to a divorce, what can also be placed on that table is a pre-nuptual agreement, and also any 'proof' of what assets were held well before the relationship started. Remember, in Thailand the Courts view the marriage as starting when the marrigae is made official, but in Australia the Family Court views the commencement of the relationship and not the actual marriage date, as the date to start the review of all financial assets held by either spouse. So get together all financial records and 'proof' of what your financial assets were at the start of the relationship - and do it now.

Even if things are going great guns with the girlfriend/wife, it would be wise for any Aussie male to take steps now, for what may happen in the years ahead. By the way, pre-nuptual agreements can be made during a marriage (a nuptual agreement). They are a formal agreement on the splitting of any financial assets should a divorce (or death) ever occur in the future to either party. I would put it this way to the Thai GF/wife - tell her the only way to stop your relatives taking all your money in Australia and leaving her nothing, is to have a binding nuptual agreement in the event of a divorce or death. Wills can be (and often are) contested by family members in Australia - any claim on your estate in a Local/State Court by a GF or Wife overseas would be difficult for her to run (and very expensive). But the Family Court is second only to the High Court in Aust, and their ruling always over-rules any other Court proceedings/rulings.

[culicine]

She has her own business, which I paid for.

She owns 2 shop-houses in Pattaya, which I paid for.

She owns another house in the village, which I paid for.

She owns a 10 year old Nissan that I paid for.

She also owns one other house in the village.

Most of her income comes from renting out one of the shop-houses, as well as renting the 2 houses in the village.

Her first ex-husband also gives her 5,000 baht per month for his 2 children and 50,000 baht from me.

Her business generates peanuts, so I think that she will be better off if she moves out to the village and then she can generate more rental income.

Sure her life isn't going to be easier when the 50,000 baht per month disappears, but well that wont be my problem.

Because these properties were acquired during marriage (even if they are in her name), could she be forced to sell and divide the money equally between you and her?

[BB24]

Because these properties were acquired during marriage (even if they are in her name), could she be forced to sell and divide the money equally between you and her?

Justasking2 has not posted anything since March 2013 - he has probably taken off

My answer is that I believe yes - in a Thai court and in an Aust Court, her assets would be taken into account in a divorce case settlement decision.

But in an Aust Court the Australian assets would also be taken into account - and they will even do the searching to find exactly what assets/finances are in his name in Aust.

In a Thai court that is not the case, unless those Aust assets were gained during the marriage and she has to provide proof of that, and proof that the financial source was his/their money from Thailand.

If you must, get married in Thailand AND get divorced in Thailand too

Accept a 50/50 loss of all Thai assets - and move on.

PS - forget to mention part of my Plan A. Do not ever live with her in Australia - never ever - no matter what. Thais cannot gain a tourist Visa easily to enter Aust (not like us comning here). Basically you would need to commit to 'sponsor' and support her while she is in Aust - and that is a legal 'footprint' you do not ever want to create - unless you are happy to live together in Aust and therefore happy to risk being divorced in Aust.

[Rod Wallop]

Couldn't one remove assets from Australia before the divorce, or during the 12 month period?

Unfortunately, that can (and will) be deemed by the Family Court as deliberately attempting to reduce your assets prior to the divorce settlement, so as to reduce any financial settlement payment obligation you have as a result of the divorce. The Family Court would then include those assets in the financial settlement they impose, and then obtain an injunction against any overseas assets you have - remember the assets will have a record of the transfer out of Australia. The ony way I can see that strategy working, is if you did it over a long period of time well before any divorce - or before the marriage started. And if you bring assets into Thailand to avoid the Aust Family Court, they will become part of any financial settlement the Thai Court imposes if/when the divorce proceeding is done here. At this point, I would caution anyone against doing anything 'dubious' with regards to financial assets into and out of Thailand, leading up to or during a divorce. Unlike in Australia, where they will only go to extremes after a long period of 'pursuit', in Thailand they can arrest and detain you very easily - I strongly advise not to take that risk.

The best way to deal with what may be a 'looming' divorce, or in the lead up to getting married, is to get advice and plan well ahead and put things in place. The Aust Family Court is a bastion of feminazis that have an extremely strong anti-male bias, but they also have rules and proceedures that they must follow. Whilst it is true that all the assets of both parties in a marriage are on the table when it comes to a divorce, what can also be placed on that table is a pre-nuptual agreement, and also any 'proof' of what assets were held well before the relationship started. Remember, in Thailand the Courts view the marriage as starting when the marrigae is made official, but in Australia the Family Court views the commencement of the relationship and not the actual marriage date, as the date to start the review of all financial assets held by either spouse. So get together all financial records and 'proof' of what your financial assets were at the start of the relationship - and do it now.

Even if things are going great guns with the girlfriend/wife, it would be wise for any Aussie male to take steps now, for what may happen in the years ahead. By the way, pre-nuptual agreements can be made during a marriage (a nuptual agreement). They are a formal agreement on the splitting of any financial assets should a divorce (or death) ever occur in the future to either party. I would put it this way to the Thai GF/wife - tell her the only way to stop your relatives taking all your money in Australia and leaving her nothing, is to have a binding nuptual agreement in the event of a divorce or death. Wills can be (and often are) contested by family members in Australia - any claim on your estate in a Local/State Court by a GF or Wife overseas would be difficult for her to run (and very expensive). But the Family Court is second only to the High Court in Aust, and their ruling always over-rules any other Court proceedings/rulings.

Best not to get divorced in Thailand then. As I understand it, a Thai wife cannot divorce her husband unless he is basically thumping her, or abandoning the family?

[spidermike007]

She may have a right to income and assets you have acquired, but only during the course of the marriage. However, I would fight it. She will more than likely be unwilling to dish out 300,000 baht or so, to retain a good attorney in Oz. Right?

 

If the marriage is of limited duration, the wife brought nothing into it and made limited or no contributions from the outset. Stand you ground, if she contributes nothing that is exactly what she will gain, nothing. 
 

[Percy P]

On 5/12/2012 at 1:54 AM, irlguy1 said:

Unless you got a rock solid prenup your wife is entitled to half your shit. If you actually married her officially and not just a Thai ceremony then get yourself a good lawyer mate. Your marriage is legal and stands by the laws of marriage in your own country.

No she is no entitled to half his personal assets. She is only entitled to a proportion of the assets gained while being married .assets one has before marriage are ones personal property. What one has before marriage remains his or hers.Some get married thinking they are entitled to the other partners assets .Only assets gained while married.