HIV May Afflict Almost Half Asia-Pacific Transgenders: UN

[webfact]

HIV may afflict almost half Asia-Pacific transgenders: UN

BANGKOK, May 17, 2012 (AFP) - Nearly half of transgender people in the Asia-Pacific region could have HIV as poor healthcare and high-risk lifestyles push infection rates to "critical levels", a UN report said Thursday.

The region's estimated 9-9.5 million transgender population is "bearing the brunt of the HIV epidemic", the UN Development Programme study said, adding that figures suggest 49 percent of the community could be infected.

The figure is drawn from anecdotal evidence of infection rates among trans-women -- men who become women -- taken from the "scattered and often small-scale research" available across the region, the UNDP said.

Report author Sam Winter, of Hong Kong University, urged governments to take note of the "burning need to address a very human crisis", pointing out many transgender people end up working as prostitutes and having unsafe sex.

"Social exclusion, poverty and HIV infection contribute to what we call a 'stigma sickness slope' -- a downward spiral that is difficult to reverse," he said in the "Lost in Transition" study.

Transgender people also routinely suffer violence and prejudice while being offered narrow economic opportunities and scant psychological support, the report found.

Billed as the region's most comprehensive study, the report collates information from the last 12 years, painting a picture of hardship for many transgender people, who lack basic healthcare and emotional help.

It recorded cases of "backyard" sex change surgery including castration and the widespread use of unsafe industrial silicone for breast implants among those who cannot afford quality healthcare.

Often transgender people leave home at a young age in response to family disapproval, drop out off school because of bullying and struggle to find work, which pushes them into prostitution, it said.

But the study also highlighted positive developments, noting an increasingly confident transgender identity has taken root. It also detected greater will from the community to engage with mainstream services and policy discussions.

"The creation of advocacy networks, community-based organisations and non-government organisations devoted to empowering our communities is a source of joy," according to Thai transgender activist Prempreeda Pramoj Na Ayutthaya.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2012-05-17

[endure]

"The figure is drawn from anecdotal evidence of infection rates among trans-women -- men who become women -- taken from the "scattered and often small-scale research" available across the region, the UNDP said."

Rigorous research there...

[GentlemanJim]

May, might, maybe! Life is a terminal disease.

[Yunla]

The implants thing is global, the same dangerous industrial-silicon implants went into 40,000 UK women in the last decade.

A lot of Asian street-surgeons are actually skilled at their job but theres still the risk of infection and lack of emergency failsafes.

It is good to see Asian transgender people using the web and other media to empower themselves & protect their human rights. Hopefully future Thai governments will follow the west and grant transgender people the same rights as other citizens re: title & social status etc.

[lujanit]

The implants thing is global, the same dangerous industrial-silicon implants went into 40,000 UK women in the last decade.

Some reference here would be helpful. Are you talking about Dow Corning breast implants?

[pointoffew]

May, might, maybe! Life is a terminal disease.

Life is a sexually transmitted disease.

[pointoffew]

The implants thing is global, the same dangerous industrial-silicon implants went into 40,000 UK women in the last decade.

Some reference here would be helpful. Are you talking about Dow Corning breast implants?

Dow Corning was one, more recently - late last year - news broke about a French company, Poly Implant Prosthèse (not abbreviated PImP but PIP). Four years it had - apparently knowingly - sold breast implants made of silicon for industrial purposes, containing fuel additives, unsuitable for this purpose. Tens of thousands, if not more than a hundred thousand, women affected.

[DGS1244]

The implants thing is global, the same dangerous industrial-silicon implants went into 40,000 UK women in the last decade.

Some reference here would be helpful. Are you talking about Dow Corning breast implants?

Does it matter? getting picking there. Irrespective who made them there is a problem.

[sbk]

One post advocating quackery removed.

One rather bigoted off topic post removed.

Last time I looked, this topic was about HIV/AIDS among transgenders in the Asia Pacific region and not about breast implants in women from the UK.

[WebBKK123]

Sam Winter is famous around the ladyboy bars in nana plaza. Not for his "research" but for falling in love with ladyboy prostitutes and paying for their operations. I have yet to see an unbiased article from him. Its a shame that a family man and "researcher" abuses his power and position over the girls. IMO its just another try from Sam to get in the limelight. If really 50% are infected, then ask Sam why he continues to have sex with them. It doesnt make sense.

[Debothai]

It is probably above the real figure but it is reasonable to assume that ladyboys have a higher risk of contracting HIV...However if condoms are used then those individuals who prefer to engage in sex activites with ladyboys may reduce the risk. Personally, I don't understand why there is such a demand for ladyboys, they do seem to do a brisk business much more than normal prostitutes....Ask any ladyboy they will probably tell you that they have quite good sources of income. In common language: they sell quite well...It is also a little known fact that men who engage in sex with ladyboys, also are sometimes both the doer and the done by types...Whatever, ladyboys seem to be doing well...and are bound to increase in the future....

[toastie]

"...in recorded cases of "backyard" sex change surgery..."

The mind boggles.

[Oscar2]

sounds like rounding them up and putting them in a compound on one of the thai islands would be a good idea. they do this with HIV+ people in cuba and it works. would clean up the streets in pattaya as well.

[EyesWideOpen]

It is probably above the real figure but it is reasonable to assume that ladyboys have a higher risk of contracting HIV...However if condoms are used then those individuals who prefer to engage in sex activites with ladyboys may reduce the risk. Personally, I don't understand why there is such a demand for ladyboys, they do seem to do a brisk business much more than normal prostitutes....Ask any ladyboy they will probably tell you that they have quite good sources of income. In common language: they sell quite well...It is also a little known fact that men who engage in sex with ladyboys, also are sometimes both the doer and the done by types...Whatever, ladyboys seem to be doing well...and are bound to increase in the future....

Please no no no no no no no ....... I am getting tired of being propositioned on the street by men with long hair and breast implants. Regarding the HIV aspect of this story, I am not allowed to say what I think..........

Edited May 17, 2012 by EyesWideOpen

[pointoffew]

sounds like rounding them up and putting them in a compound on one of the thai islands would be a good idea. they do this with HIV+ people in cuba and it works. would clean up the streets in pattaya as well.

Looking for clean streets? Back home - wherever that may be for you - they surely are cleaner.

[techboy]

sounds like rounding them up and putting them in a compound on one of the thai islands would be a good idea. they do this with HIV+ people in cuba and it works. would clean up the streets in pattaya as well.

I do not care much for the ladyboys but I think that I like you even less.

[jaywalker]

Just watching the Crime & Investigation channel on TMN in Pattaya last night.

They were showing these transvestite hookers in Miami. One was missing teeth & the cop said "Dude, I'm 6 foot 4 and you tower over me...you're a scary guy".

I have to agree with the cop. Tall guys dressed like women are scary.

To each his own I suppose. My wonderful wife of 11 years is 4' 11" (1.5 meters) tall.

Condoms (onus on the couple) & legal prostitution (onus on the government) working together seems to be the only answer.

What are the aids statistics in Holland? I have no idea really.

Edited May 17, 2012 by jaywalker

[sirchai]

Report author Sam Winter, of Hong Kong University, urged governments to take note of the "burning need to address a very human crisis", pointing out many transgender people end up working as prostitutes and having unsafe sex.

What about those who "enjoy" their services?

Thailand could soon become the hub of lacking sexual education. Nobody's talking about what everybody already knows......

[Arkady]

"HONG KONG, 19/04/2012

For twelve years Associate Professor Sam Winter of the University of Hong Kong (HKU) has been working in rights and health for transgender people. There are transphobic people at HKU , as anywhere else. So his work in this area has benefited from the fact that he had ‘tenure to 60’ (that is, security of employment until 60).

Sam’s work now faces the axe. Why? He is approaching 60 and A KEY COMMITTEE HAS DECIDED THAT IT WOULD NOT BE IN HKU’S BEST INTERESTS FOR SAM TO BE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE HIS RESEARCH AND WRITING, AS WELL AS SERVICE BEYOND THE CAMPUS, AS A FULL-TIME STAFF MEMBER OF HKU."

Seems like there is some controversy in HK about extending Sam Winter's tenure beyond the age of 60.

[sirchai]

Just watching the Crime & Investigation channel on TMN in Pattaya last night.

They were showing these transvestite hookers in Miami. One was missing teeth & the cop said "Dude, I'm 6 foot 4 and you tower over me...you're a scary guy".

I have to agree with the cop. Tall guys dressed like women are scary.

To each his own I suppose. My wonderful wife of 11 years is 4' 11" (1.5 meters) tall.

Condoms (onus on the couple) & legal prostitution (onus on the government) working together seems to be the only answer.

What are the aids statistics in Holland? I have no idea really.

Hope your wife's a few years older, dude.

[earthpig]

Shocking statistic, i can only hope that it isn't true.

Gender Identity Disorder must be a horrifying curse. Add to that a HIV hyperepidemic and life begins to seem pretty unfair.

there seem to be so many suffering from GID in Thailand as opposed to anywhere else i have lived that i wonder if it isnt often a lifestyle/professional decision rather than the mental disorder which the APA catagorizes it to be. aren't most of these guys just out to make money by prostituting themselves and the market in female customers is just far too small to support them all?

of course any fellow who really shows up at the surgeon's office for castration is another matter entirely. No doubt he needs help big time.

i wonder what percentage of katoey are eunuchs?

[Yunla]

Shocking statistic, i can only hope that it isn't true.

Gender Identity Disorder must be a horrifying curse. Add to that a HIV hyperepidemic and life begins to seem pretty unfair.

there seem to be so many suffering from GID in Thailand as opposed to anywhere else i have lived that i wonder if it isnt often a lifestyle/professional decision rather than the mental disorder which the APA catagorizes it to be. aren't most of these guys just out to make money by prostituting themselves and the market in female customers is just far too small to support them all?

of course any fellow who really shows up at the surgeon's office for castration is another matter entirely. No doubt he needs help big time.

i wonder what percentage of katoey are eunuchs?

I sort of avoided the HIV part of this OP as they haven't researched it and its speculative. Its the same as the wider Thai HIV problem, most people agree the levels are very high but we don't really know.

Transgenderism I have a lot of experience in as I am related to a post op lady, and I studied the whole scene to better understand her & counsel her etc.

Common acceptance of definition is gender indentity disorder and gender dysphoria [GID & GD] are different in their severity, for example in UK 1/10 one in ten men are classed as having GID meaning they f.ex like long hair & traditionally feminine things and occasionally cross-dress or used to experiment in cross-dressing. They are usually transvestite and borderline/casual & don't have heavy psychological problems with it - more often societal problems when their secret 'hobby' is discovered.

Gender dysphoria is a completely different thing, it is an actual illness which carries a heavy suicide rate among people who are not treated, the only actual treatment for true GD is gender-reassignment surgery. People with GD who can not afford surgery or who are blocked from the NHS route frequently commit suicide. GD also starts earlier than the milder and different GID, with gender dysphoria starting at age 5 being frequently reported. GD is an illness with a cure, GID is more a confused psychological / personality trait that the person doesn't really associate as he or she full-time and is more fluid and changeable, totally different than GD cases where they see themselves as opposite to their birth gender often from childhood.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Yunla

[anterian]

Promiscuous anal sex is more risky than vaginal sex, oral sex is far less risky and I understand that most ladyboy prostitutes and their customers prefer this method (http://www.avert.org/oral-sex.htm).

To me the real question is why are there so many ladyboys in Thailand compared to other countries?

I can think of quite a few reasons, social, economic and environmental, these reasons seem to apply to other countries with a high proportion of ladyboys such as the Philippines and Brazil. However to discuss this would be off topic.

[EyesWideOpen]

Promiscuous anal sex is more risky than vaginal sex, oral sex is far less risky and I understand that most ladyboy prostitutes and their customers prefer this method (http://www.avert.org/oral-sex.htm).

To me the real question is why are there so many ladyboys in Thailand compared to other countries?

I can think of quite a few reasons, social, economic and environmental, these reasons seem to apply to other countries with a high proportion of ladyboys such as the Philippines and Brazil. However to discuss this would be off topic.

I have often wondered about that. I can certainly understand the issue of a woman trapped in a man's body. This occurs in a very small percentage of the population in most other countries. So not really why it appears in such a high percentage here...... Unless.....

[properjob]

Sam Winter is famous around the ladyboy bars in nana plaza. Not for his "research" but for falling in love with ladyboy prostitutes and paying for their operations. I have yet to see an unbiased article from him. Its a shame that a family man and "researcher" abuses his power and position over the girls. IMO its just another try from Sam to get in the limelight. If really 50% are infected, then ask Sam why he continues to have sex with them. It doesnt make sense.

This post by WebBKK123 ought to get the attention of moderators. A forum participant, protected by anonymity, makes very pointed accusations against an academic with a well-established and published track record in the field of transgender issues - http://web.hku.hk/~sjwinter/general/

I have no idea if the accusations above have the slightest merit, but whether or not they do, surely this is not the place to allow them exposure.

pj

[anterian]

Eyes wide open, if the Mods would allow me to widen this topic I would be happy to discuss these reasons.

[poanoi]

One thing i've been pondering for quite a while now:

can the viking gene CCR 32 be used as treatment for HIV if taken as a suppository ?

[geriatrickid]

"HONG KONG, 19/04/2012

For twelve years Associate Professor Sam Winter of the University of Hong Kong (HKU) has been working in rights and health for transgender people. There are transphobic people at HKU , as anywhere else. So his work in this area has benefited from the fact that he had ‘tenure to 60’ (that is, security of employment until 60).

Sam’s work now faces the axe. Why? He is approaching 60 and A KEY COMMITTEE HAS DECIDED THAT IT WOULD NOT BE IN HKU’S BEST INTERESTS FOR SAM TO BE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE HIS RESEARCH AND WRITING, AS WELL AS SERVICE BEYOND THE CAMPUS, AS A FULL-TIME STAFF MEMBER OF HKU."

Seems like there is some controversy in HK about extending Sam Winter's tenure beyond the age of 60.

His specialty is educational psychology, not public health and certainly not epidemiology. Every time he gets involved in these issues, he annoys the people that do the work and the research. It's akin to me offering assessments of the Thai railway system because I have been a rail passenger.

A word of caution: Asia Pacific includes China and India. These two countries have a massive problem with HIV and skew regional results. It is inappropriate to include countries with an excellent health care system such as Japan or Singapore with basket cases like Cambodia and India.

[geriatrickid]

One thing i've been pondering for quite a while now:

can the viking gene CCR 32 be used as treatment for HIV if taken as a suppository ?

Only way to determine the validity of your hypothesis is to have a clinical trial? Would you like to volunteer?

[sirchai]

Promiscuous anal sex is more risky than vaginal sex, oral sex is far less risky and I understand that most ladyboy prostitutes and their customers prefer this method (http://www.avert.org/oral-sex.htm).

To me the real question is why are there so many ladyboys in Thailand compared to other countries?

I can think of quite a few reasons, social, economic and environmental, these reasons seem to apply to other countries with a high proportion of ladyboys such as the Philippines and Brazil. However to discuss this would be off topic.

Lady boys are already accepted in primary school. This is going back to Thai culture and their beliefs. If a family has got three kids and one turns out to be a "third gender" it's mostly accepted.

The questionable reason for is that they believe the lady boy had been a woman in his former life who had sex with many men.

I know it sounds very weird for people who're not from Thailand.......