What It's Like In Thailand's Deadliest Prison

[webfact]

What It's Like In Thailand's Deadliest Prison

by T. M. Hoy

BANGKOK: -- Thai prison, like all prisons, reveals the dark side of a person's soul. It is how people behave when there are no constraints and outside limits are nonexistent. All the fury of the Thai people against the neo-colonial economic imperialism of the West is directed fully at Western prisoners; in the provincial prisons, at least, where little or no oversight exists.

The prisons in Bangkok are somewhat less deadly, as the personnel from the foreign embassies visit regularly, making sure that the worst of abuses are curbed.

But still...heroin addiction is rampant, madness is a regular side-effect, and no one emerges from the experience unscathed. A U.S. State Department study found that every year spent in a Thai prison is equivalent (in damage done to body and mind) to five years in a standard U.S. prison. The five-plus years I did are therefore roughly equivalent to doing twenty-five years in the U.S. prison system. (I was then given a treaty transfer and served an additional eleven years in U.S. federal prison).

Thai prison is a surreal place. Like Thai society itself, it's a strange mixture of casual brutality and indifference to human suffering, while being placed side-by-side with stoicism, introspection, and humor in the face of death.

In retrospect, that cauldron of viciousness and cruelty brings forth the whole spectrum of human behavior--from great evil to transcendent kindness, and mimics what I would assume those who survive a war must experience. [more…]

Full story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tm-hoy/what-its-like-in-bangkok-_b_1533902.html

-- HUFFINGTON POST 2012-05-22

[Superdude]

Already knew that the prison in Thailand is extreme and I wish never to know that experience either

[ratcatcher]

Maybe Mr Hoy has had conversations with ex P.O.W.s regarding their treatment at the hands of the V.C.?

Bang Kwang and its ilk may not be nice places, but then again they aren't supposed to be. Prisons in some countries are rather like country clubs.

As the old saying goes "If you can't do the time...........etc"

[Buchholz]

Are any of our long-time Chiang Mai resident members familiar with the Mr. Hoy's past conviction?

T. M. Hoy

http://indieaisle.com/tmhoy1

After extensive travel through Asia, he settled in Bangkok, and then Chiang Mai, located in Northern Thailand. While living there, he made a “tragic error in judgment” by not reporting a friend to the police for murder. In 1995, he was given a life sentence

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tm-hoy

[PattayaPhom]

Having purchased all publications by ex-cons serving in Thailands prisons, I dont think I will be buying his.....apart from 3of them all other publications are badly written and really are not anything new.....just another ex-con after an easy buck.....

[me313]

Mr. Hoy describes people being beaten to death by guards in this prison without any legal recourse. People on other posts for Thai Visa describe how murder can so easily be paid for in Thailand. He's trying to bring to light the violence and injustice of this penal system. It doesn't sound like he is trying to make an easy buck but trying to open people to the horrors that are hidden in Thai society. He then makes a comparison with the American prison system, saying it is even more brutal than the Thai system. Prison culture is also hidden and obscured in America and prisons are ways of destroying people's lives through a so-called legal system where they end up in prison, possibly raped or beaten or killed. This should be brought to people's attention more often.

[OzMick]

Life sentence "for not reporting a friend"? Life sentences are not handed down for minor offences, and that sounds like a VERY self-serving description of whatever he was charged with.

I suggest aiding and abetting wouldn't rate that, so possibly accessory to murder (or Thai equivalent)?

[Credo]

Having purchased all publications by ex-cons serving in Thailands prisons, I dont think I will be buying his.....apart from 3of them all other publications are badly written and really are not anything new.....just another ex-con after an easy buck.....

Yes but this one is different, he didn't do anything really wrong. He just made a "tragic error in judgment".

I have little interest in books such as these, but the movies are often quite watchable. When a society deprives people of their freedom, then that society needs to provide for their basic care. Prisons don't need to be nice places, but they do need to be livable.

[OzMick]

It is also possible that Mr Hoy was a victim of cultural differences, if you know what I mean. Being introduced to the judge as Mr (Insert your own term for female sexual organs) is not a great start to your defence.

[ratcatcher]

Mr. Hoy describes people being beaten to death by guards in this prison without any legal recourse. People on other posts for Thai Visa describe how murder can so easily be paid for in Thailand. He's trying to bring to light the violence and injustice of this penal system. It doesn't sound like he is trying to make an easy buck but trying to open people to the horrors that are hidden in Thai society. He then makes a comparison with the American prison system, saying it is even more brutal than the Thai system. Prison culture is also hidden and obscured in America and prisons are ways of destroying people's lives through a so-called legal system where they end up in prison, possibly raped or beaten or killed. This should be brought to people's attention more often.

"Prison culture is also hidden and obscured in America and prisons are ways of destroying people's lives through a so-called legal system where they end up in prison, possibly raped or beaten or killed."

I understand the point you are making, but how many prisoners in Thai, American or other jails "destroyed people's lives through their actions, in many cases by rape, beatings or murder"? I didn't even include scamming and theft and drug dealing.

A man who rapes a 12 year old girl, who gets caught and goes to jail often ends up enduring the same treatment he gave the girl.

There are many innocent souls unjustly incarcerated throughout the world, and my heart goes out to them. Those that actually do commit crimes and are truly guilty I have no sympathy for.

[hellodolly]

Mr. Hoy describes people being beaten to death by guards in this prison without any legal recourse. People on other posts for Thai Visa describe how murder can so easily be paid for in Thailand. He's trying to bring to light the violence and injustice of this penal system. It doesn't sound like he is trying to make an easy buck but trying to open people to the horrors that are hidden in Thai society. He then makes a comparison with the American prison system, saying it is even more brutal than the Thai system. Prison culture is also hidden and obscured in America and prisons are ways of destroying people's lives through a so-called legal system where they end up in prison, possibly raped or beaten or killed. This should be brought to people's attention more often.

The one big difference that he neglects is that the American system allows for better living conditions. Such as food and cells built for two or four that don't have up to 20 in them. Yes the violence is certainly there many is the prisoner who leaves the U. S. jail in a coffin.

[yachtbigsmile]

After spending only a year in Bangkoks finnest, I decieded not to transfer back to USA when I had the oppertunity

Thai prisons are a much better alternative, no rapes, little violence and you need not be a "skinHead" "Black" "Hells Angle" or "Hispanic" to survive... to me there was no question, Thai prison is a far safer place,

[Suradit69]

"Thai prison, like all prisons, reveals the dark side of a person's soul. It is how people behave when there are no constraints and outside limits are nonexistent."

I would have thought that the self-revelation of the dark side of someone's soul is what got him sent to prison in the first place.

Obviously the constraints & outside limits that most people operate within outside of prison were ignored by him and his complaint is that now he wants them for his own protection, a luxury not afforded his victims.

[Colabamumbai]

The prisons in Bangkok are less deadly because embassy staff visit them. Embassy staff have no say as to what goes on in a prison and can do nothing to prevent anything happening to an inmate. They may be able to ask the prison to put someone in protective custody (the hole), but can only make a request.

Just as they can do nothing for you other than take messages, enquire about your health etc. maybe see that you got a lawyer, but in most cases it is probably to late for that.

I have also written a book, unpublished that in part covers the subject of prisons both foreign and Canadian. The names were not changed to "protect the innocent".

I refuse to say more on the grounds that it would incriminate myself.

[DP25]

After spending only a year in Bangkoks finnest, I decieded not to transfer back to USA when I had the oppertunity

Thai prisons are a much better alternative, no rapes, little violence and you need not be a "skinHead" "Black" "Hells Angle" or "Hispanic" to survive... to me there was no question, Thai prison is a far safer place,

That story isn't going to sell any books

[Nisa]

A U.S. State Department study found that every year spent in a Thai prison is equivalent (in damage done to body and mind) to five years in a standard U.S. prison

Anyone have any luck finding this study?

[marinediscoking]

Something does not sound right about his story. After being jailed 5 years in thailand and then transfered to the US and then serve 11 years for not reporting his friend. In most transfer cases that i have read from US citizens transfered from other countries to the US, they rarely do more that a couple of years once in a US prison, as the US takes into account the harsh conditions of the foreign prisons and reduces the time greatly remaining on the sentence.

[Suradit69]

A U.S. State Department study found that every year spent in a Thai prison is equivalent (in damage done to body and mind) to five years in a standard U.S. prison

Anyone have any luck finding this study?

Since there is such a wide variety of prison environments in the US and such a wide variety of ages, physical conditions and mental states of persons when they first enter prison and not much objective data collected either in the US or Thailand on the state of individuals before or after their stay in prison, it seems like any "study" would simply be subjective and anecdotal.

US government agencies like to blow money on dubious studies, but this sounds like something the author manufactured to substantiate his point ... whatever that might be.

Something does not sound right about his story. After being jailed 5 years in thailand and then transfered to the US and then serve 11 years for not reporting his friend. In most transfer cases that i have read from US citizens transfered from other countries to the US, they rarely do more that a couple of years once in a US prison, as the US takes into account the harsh conditions of the foreign prisons and reduces the time greatly remaining on the sentence.

It does sound like a work of fiction, doesn't it? I wonder if he's been a regular contributor to ThaiVisa.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Suradit69

[belg]

so these days, they hire ex-cons to be journalists.... loooooooooool

[preahko]

Maybe Mr Hoy has had conversations with ex P.O.W.s regarding their treatment at the hands of the V.C.?

Bang Kwang and its ilk may not be nice places, but then again they aren't supposed to be. Prisons in some countries are rather like country clubs.

As the old saying goes "If you can't do the time...........etc"

Oh yes, because, you know, nobody ever gets falsely accused or imprisoned, right, tough guy?

[nosatisfaction]

It is also possible that Mr Hoy was a victim of cultural differences, if you know what I mean. Being introduced to the judge as Mr (Insert your own term for female sexual organs) is not a great start to your defence.

love it, especially for those whom don't have any notion of basic Thai

[crusader79]

After spending only a year in Bangkoks finnest, I decieded not to transfer back to USA when I had the oppertunity

Thai prisons are a much better alternative, no rapes, little violence and you need not be a "skinHead" "Black" "Hells Angle" or "Hispanic" to survive... to me there was no question, Thai prison is a far safer place,

That was the impression given by Jon Cole's Bangkok Hard Time, and one of the reasons he wrote it, i.e. to correct some of the impressions conveyed by other writers, which he thought unfair or even dishonest.

Edited May 22, 2012 by crusader79

[nosatisfaction]

After spending only a year in Bangkoks finnest, I decieded not to transfer back to USA when I had the oppertunity

Thai prisons are a much better alternative, no rapes, little violence and you need not be a "skinHead" "Black" "Hells Angle" or "Hispanic" to survive... to me there was no question, Thai prison is a far safer place,

why do inmates have access to internet when other , I didn't say normal, people have to pay for it?

[Ferangled]

so these days, they hire ex-cons to be journalists.... loooooooooool

God forbid hiring an ex-con....? Whatever next?! A black man for President, a woman as PM?!

Many brilliant journalists are "ex-cons" having spent time behind bars at some point or other chasing down sensitive stories or trying to expose corruption of those in power.

Pretty irrelevant really given this guy isn't a journalist, he's the author of a single book, which I guess he'd struggled to have written without being an ex-con, given the subject matter...

[nosatisfaction]

Bang Kwang and its ilk may not be nice places, but then again they aren't supposed to be. Prisons in some countries are rather like country clubs.

As the old saying goes "If you can't do the time...........etc"

I find this sort of view totally naive and medieval in outlook. How can we expect anyone to be integrated back into society if they are subject to criminality in prison? Take a troubled individual and send them to a breeding ground for vice and violence... great idea Einstein!

Most conveniently ignore the fact that the vast majority of people in jail are in for non violent crimes - failure to pay taxes, driving without a license etc. Most Governments would like us to believe that prisons are full of murderers, rapists and armed robbers but the facts are very different; such inmates make up a very small fraction of the total number of convicts.

One particular case will always stick in my mind - UK, painter & decorator supporting a family of 5 single handed, lost his license for speeding, continued to drive as vital to his work, caught driving without a license or insurance - 2 years in jail. His children watched in tears as he was lead away, then were promptly taken into care.

Next case - Grievous Bodily Harm, community service and a small fine, man left court laughing his head off and threatening to "do him in properly next time".

Next case - Cultivation of marijuana with intent to supply - community service and a small fine, man left court in his BMW M3 with a big smile on his face, smoking a large hand rolled "cigarette".

That is the reality of jails, they aren't filled with evil, violent cons, they're full of quite normal people who've either been unfortunate or stupid. Sadly by the time they leave they will probably have picked up a few nasty habits to bring back to society...

This painter could have sat on his arse living of benefits in a council house but instead got out there and tried to earn an honest living. He made a mistake, no one was hurt, he didn't profit from it, yet his and his families life were ruined as a result of it.

I detest those so quick to judge based on false preconceptions. If you really believe that jails should be nasty places akin to medieval dungeons with widespread torture and rape, you need locking up yourself; that sort of perverted view is, in my opinion, the real danger to society. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of what modern society is and should be.

Jail should be about education, rehabilitation and deprivation of freedom, no more and no less.

not reality of jails, reality of handling of justice

i feel sad for the painter, this is a very sad situation but a reality in our society, but still, rapists should experience the same thing as their victims. getting away from the main subject is not good but some civic feeling should remain

[Petertimo]

Something does not sound right about his story. After being jailed 5 years in thailand and then transfered to the US and then serve 11 years for not reporting his friend. In most transfer cases that i have read from US citizens transfered from other countries to the US, they rarely do more that a couple of years once in a US prison, as the US takes into account the harsh conditions of the foreign prisons and reduces the time greatly remaining on the sentence.

Instead of spending his whole life in jail he only spent another 11 years in the US. I would call that a reduced sentence.

[tragickingdom]

I have a few objections to the article. US prisons are fundamentally flawed, a country that has 25% of the world's prisoners and who think that they can point fingers are really out of touch. The US system is far more broken than the Thai system. Secondly Thai prisons are ran by the inmates not by the people working there. That is why you find so much contraband and why so many abuses are going on. Last but not least, a stem that is led by a politician "Chalerm" who should himself be in jail together with his sons is always rotten.

[happysanook]

Bang Kwang and its ilk may not be nice places, but then again they aren't supposed to be. Prisons in some countries are rather like country clubs.

As the old saying goes "If you can't do the time...........etc"

I find this sort of view totally naive and medieval in outlook. How can we expect anyone to be integrated back into society if they are subject to criminality in prison? Take a troubled individual and send them to a breeding ground for vice and violence... great idea Einstein!

Most conveniently ignore the fact that the vast majority of people in jail are in for non violent crimes - failure to pay taxes, driving without a license etc. Most Governments would like us to believe that prisons are full of murderers, rapists and armed robbers but the facts are very different; such inmates make up a very small fraction of the total number of convicts.

One particular case will always stick in my mind - UK, painter & decorator supporting a family of 5 single handed, lost his license for speeding, continued to drive as vital to his work, caught driving without a license or insurance - 2 years in jail. His children watched in tears as he was lead away, then were promptly taken into care.

Next case - Grievous Bodily Harm, community service and a small fine, man left court laughing his head off and threatening to "do him in properly next time".

Next case - Cultivation of marijuana with intent to supply - community service and a small fine, man left court in his BMW M3 with a big smile on his face, smoking a large hand rolled "cigarette".

That is the reality of jails, they aren't filled with evil, violent cons, they're full of quite normal people who've either been unfortunate or stupid. Sadly by the time they leave they will probably have picked up a few nasty habits to bring back to society...

This painter could have sat on his arse living of benefits in a council house but instead got out there and tried to earn an honest living. He made a mistake, no one was hurt, he didn't profit from it, yet his and his families life were ruined as a result of it.

I detest those so quick to judge based on false preconceptions. If you really believe that jails should be nasty places akin to medieval dungeons with widespread torture and rape, you need locking up yourself; that sort of perverted view is, in my opinion, the real danger to society. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of what modern society is and should be.

Jail should be about education, rehabilitation and deprivation of freedom, no more and no less.

it boils down to jobs and power. the law and prison is the biggest business there is and employs ridiculous amounts of people...

hear about the 30,000 drone planes that will be released into the public in the US?

[BookMan]

After spending only a year in Bangkoks finnest, I decieded not to transfer back to USA when I had the oppertunity

Thai prisons are a much better alternative, no rapes, little violence and you need not be a "skinHead" "Black" "Hells Angle" or "Hispanic" to survive... to me there was no question, Thai prison is a far safer place,

What about the issues of overcrowding, health care, Food? How were they?

[crazydrummerpauly]

Bang Kwang and its ilk may not be nice places, but then again they aren't supposed to be. Prisons in some countries are rather like country clubs.

As the old saying goes "If you can't do the time...........etc"

I find this sort of view totally naive and medieval in outlook. How can we expect anyone to be integrated back into society if they are subject to criminality in prison? Take a troubled individual and send them to a breeding ground for vice and violence... great idea Einstein!

Most conveniently ignore the fact that the vast majority of people in jail are in for non violent crimes - failure to pay taxes, driving without a license etc. Most Governments would like us to believe that prisons are full of murderers, rapists and armed robbers but the facts are very different; such inmates make up a very small fraction of the total number of convicts.

One particular case will always stick in my mind - UK, painter & decorator supporting a family of 5 single handed, lost his license for speeding, continued to drive as vital to his work, caught driving without a license or insurance - 2 years in jail. His children watched in tears as he was lead away, then were promptly taken into care.

Next case - Grievous Bodily Harm, community service and a small fine, man left court laughing his head off and threatening to "do him in properly next time".

Next case - Cultivation of marijuana with intent to supply - community service and a small fine, man left court in his BMW M3 with a big smile on his face, smoking a large hand rolled "cigarette".

That is the reality of jails, they aren't filled with evil, violent cons, they're full of quite normal people who've either been unfortunate or stupid. Sadly by the time they leave they will probably have picked up a few nasty habits to bring back to society...

This painter could have sat on his arse living of benefits in a council house but instead got out there and tried to earn an honest living. He made a mistake, no one was hurt, he didn't profit from it, yet his and his families life were ruined as a result of it.

I detest those so quick to judge based on false preconceptions. If you really believe that jails should be nasty places akin to medieval dungeons with widespread torture and rape, you need locking up yourself; that sort of perverted view is, in my opinion, the real danger to society. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of what modern society is and should be.

Jail should be about education, rehabilitation and deprivation of freedom, no more and no less.

At last...intelligence, balance, and a humane take on the reality and the possible value of imprisonment. Thanks.