Concept 2 Rower Model D (Exercise For Fat Loss)

[GarryP]

32 minutes ago, tropo said:

I wouldn't want to row with that. It's too bulbous exactly where you pull the handles to when you row. The Garmin strap is a low profile and more suited to rowing. I do hit the Garmin strap with the handles sometimes. I have a Runtastic HRM similar in design to that H7, but I don't use it on the rower.

I have never hit the garmin strap as when I pull the handle I bring it in slightly below my pecs. I don't think Concept would recommend it if that were an issue.  Any way, I will let you know how it goes.

[tropo]

26 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I have never hit the garmin strap as when I pull the handle I bring it in slightly below my pecs. I don't think Concept would recommend it if that were an issue.  Any way, I will let you know how it goes.

The strap is just below the pecs, exactly where you need to pull the handle to. I find it incredible that you've NEVER hit it. You must be pulling lower down. The only other way to avoid hitting it is to pull slightly short or higher. Higher is not good, so slightly below the strap is the best option. Concept2 integrated their PM with Garmin, because it's the highest quality. I had a Polar which rotted (the hard plastic broke) after using it for a year even when fastidiously washing them after every workout. I'm impressed with the quality of Garmin. You may have noticed that Dark Horse Rowing has never spoken of an HRM in any of his videos. I wonder why that is, especially considering that HRM integration is one of the important features of Concept2's PM technology.

Edited October 5, 2017 by tropo

[GarryP]

38 minutes ago, tropo said:

The strap is just below the pecs, exactly where you need to pull the handle to. I find it incredible that you've NEVER hit it. You must be pulling lower down. The only other way to avoid hitting it is to pull slightly short or higher. Higher is not good, so slightly below the strap is the best option. Concept2 integrated their PM with Garmin, because it's the highest quality. I had a Polar which rotted (the hard plastic broke) after using it for a year even when fastidiously washing them after every workout. I'm impressed with the quality of Garmin. You may have noticed that Dark Horse Rowing has never spoken of an HRM in any of his videos. I wonder why that is, especially considering that HRM integration is one of the important features of Concept2's PM technology.

Have you also noted the Dark Horse host's rowing position. He seems to draw his hands in way too high. Now I am not sure if that is because he is short in body,  but Concept2 recommends just below the ribs at the front. 

 

As for my Garmin (fake?), there was nothing wrong with the body and I was very happy with the fit. The problem was that it stopped working. I decided on the H7 as it gives me the opportunity to use it with my phone if I ever decide to use it when I go out on my bike.  

[alfieconn]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

The strap is just below the pecs, exactly where you need to pull the handle to. I find it incredible that you've NEVER hit it. You must be pulling lower down. The only other way to avoid hitting it is to pull slightly short or higher. Higher is not good, so slightly below the strap is the best option. Concept2 integrated their PM with Garmin, because it's the highest quality. I had a Polar which rotted (the hard plastic broke) after using it for a year even when fastidiously washing them after every workout. I'm impressed with the quality of Garmin. You may have noticed that Dark Horse Rowing has never spoken of an HRM in any of his videos. I wonder why that is, especially considering that HRM integration is one of the important features of Concept2's PM technology.

Use to pull to just below my pecs before i had the HRM so had make the movement a fraction lower, still sometimes hit the HRM but being as i'm not wacking the handle into my chest haven't had a problem.

 

For your info guy's unfortunately my gym doesn't have any Concept's 2's but a machine manufactured by Matrix so it is hard to compare my workout's with yourselves, generally do 1min intervals of intense and easy getting an average heartrate of 142bpm and getting to 155 bpm at the most intense.I usually log meters rowed and i must admit that the distance doesn't seem to be increasing as much as i expected, beginning of May i was probably doing approx 5,200 mtrs and a couple of days ago i done 5,644 mtrs but i must admit that i do find it hard to pace myself !

[GarryP]

12 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

Use to pull to just below my pecs before i had the HRM so had make the movement a fraction lower, still sometimes hit the HRM but being as i'm not wacking the handle into my chest haven't had a problem.

 

For your info guy's unfortunately my gym doesn't have any Concept's 2's but a machine manufactured by Matrix so it is hard to compare my workout's with yourselves, generally do 1min intervals of intense and easy getting an average heartrate of 142bpm and getting to 155 bpm at the most intense.I usually log meters rowed and i must admit that the distance doesn't seem to be increasing as much as i expected, beginning of May i was probably doing approx 5,200 mtrs and a couple of days ago i done 5,644 mtrs but i must admit that i do find it hard to pace myself !

At the suggestion of tropo I have started doing intervals but only on Saturday and Sunday. 500 meters/rest 1min. I do 14 sets. During the week I continue to do 30 minute sessions for which I average about 7,150 meters. My heart rate monitor did not work for long but while it did I was averaging about 135bpm and going up to 148 (which is supposedly a bit too high for me at 55 years old). I try to row 5 days a week, although that did not quite work out in August and September due to travel and illness.    

[alfieconn]

16 minutes ago, GarryP said:

At the suggestion of tropo I have started doing intervals but only on Saturday and Sunday. 500 meters/rest 1min. I do 14 sets. During the week I continue to do 30 minute sessions for which I average about 7,150 meters. My heart rate monitor did not work for long but while it did I was averaging about 135bpm and going up to 148 (which is supposedly a bit too high for me at 55 years old). I try to row 5 days a week, although that did not quite work out in August and September due to travel and illness.    

To know if 148BPM is high for you you need to find out your max Heart rate rather than use the 220 minus your age calculation, as in my case the 220 minus age calculation is lower than my actual max heart rate although not by too much.Incidently i am 56 Y/O and only row once a week but do other cardio workout's twice a week and and log  the 3 workout's heart rates for comparison.

Incidently i use the Polar app to monitor everything  and gauge everything from there.

Edited October 5, 2017 by alfieconn

[GarryP]

11 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

To know if 148BPM is high for you you need to find out your max Heart rate rather than use the 220 minus your age calculation, as in my case the 220 minus age calculation is lower than my actual max heart rate although not by too much.Incidently i am 56 Y/O and only row once a week but do other cardio workout's twice a week and and log  the 3 workout's heart rates for comparison.

Incidently i use the Polar app to monitor everything  and gauge everything from there.

Actually just rechecked and 148 is not the highest. According to the calculation my max should be 165. But according to most sites I should not exceed 85 percent of that for the most benefit. 

 

How do I go about finding my true maximum?

[tropo]

3 hours ago, GarryP said:

Have you also noted the Dark Horse host's rowing position. He seems to draw his hands in way too high. Now I am not sure if that is because he is short in body,  but Concept2 recommends just below the ribs at the front. 

 

As for my Garmin (fake?), there was nothing wrong with the body and I was very happy with the fit. The problem was that it stopped working. I decided on the H7 as it gives me the opportunity to use it with my phone if I ever decide to use it when I go out on my bike.  

I had noted that he pulls it very high. I can't say it's "too high" because it works for him and we all have different body mechanics. I don't think he has a short body - I see him as long overall. I notice that he brings his hands almost to the cage on the return, and the slide nearly hits the end of the rail in the pull so he gets a much greater range of motion than I can. Long lanky guys are made for rowing.

 

He made a very good point in a recent video - that we shouldn't care about rowing. At the end of the day, the important thing is that we move (exercise), stimulate the heart and circulatory system and strengthen our bodies in the process without causing injury. He noted that some extremely powerful individuals (eg WSM competitors Brian Shaw and Ross Love) are breaking records with what could be considered to be poor technique. That's what makes the SkiErg the superior machine of the two because the risk of injury is far lower than it is in rowing.

 

I gave up trying to teach my wife perfect technique and left her alone with "good enough" as she's still getting a good workout and the numbers she is posting are not important. I spent most of my rowing erg years rowing with poor technique and didn't even know what good technique was until more recently when I can learn about it online.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by tropo

[tropo]

12 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Actually just rechecked and 148 is not the highest. According to the calculation my max should be 165. But according to most sites I should not exceed 85 percent of that for the most benefit. 

 

How do I go about finding my true maximum?

I found my true maximum by testing it out. I did an exercise (this was walking/jogging up stairs) until I was about to drop dead and noted the heart rate. I was 57 at the time and I maxed out at 177. Probably with enough incentive I could have reached 180, but I left it at that LOL. 

 

I don't worry too much about percentages when I'm doing HIIT. I just push it as high as I can. If you're doing 500m intervals, then you probably won't want to hit your peak until near the end of it. Here's another method which you may "enjoy". You set the interval rest periods to variable, meaning you choose when you want to start your next interval. When you're ready you just hit the start button and go for it.

 

The advantage here is you can decide at what level of recovery you want to get to before your next interval. i.e. how low to let your heart rate drop. The harder you work your interval the longer it will take to get to your recovered level, but it also means you'll be able to work your interval harder. For example, I would do the interval and then row slowly until my HR reached 130 bpm and then go again. There is no set time to get to recovery HR - just as long as it takes

 

[TaveewatLim]

5 hours ago, GarryP said:

I have never hit the garmin strap as when I pull the handle I bring it in slightly below my pecs. I don't think Concept would recommend it if that were an issue.  Any way, I will let you know how it goes.

I wear chest strap at my rip cage and I've never hit HRM when I row but I fell uncomfortable with chest strap when my heart rate is over 160bpm then I will not use HRM when I row longer than 5000 meters.

 

5 hours ago, tropo said:

I had a Polar which rotted (the hard plastic broke) after using it for a year even when fastidiously washing them after every workout.

I used to broke my polar HRM because unproper maintainance, HR mornitor just want only wipe by dry cloth or paper, not have to wash it, wash only chest strap with plain water.

1 hour ago, tropo said:

Here's another method which you may "enjoy". You set the interval rest periods to variable, meaning you choose when you want to start your next interval. When you're ready you just hit the start button and go for it.

I just shift to interval training as your advice. I use variable interval and row 500m with set rest time to "undefied rest time" , with this setting I can do strength training and rowing interval.

 

 

 

 

 

[tropo]

2 hours ago, TaveewatLim said:

 

7 hours ago, tropo said:

I had a Polar which rotted (the hard plastic broke) after using it for a year even when fastidiously washing them after every workout.

I used to broke my polar HRM because unproper maintainance, HR mornitor just want only wipe by dry cloth or paper, not have to wash it, wash only chest strap with plain water.

3 hours ago, tropo said:

Here's another method which you may "enjoy". You set the interval rest periods to variable, meaning you choose when you want to start your next interval. When you're ready you just hit the start button and go for it.

I just shift to interval training as your advice. I use variable interval and row 500m with set rest time to "undefied rest time" , with this setting I can do strength training and rowing interval.

6

My Polar HRM chest strap plastic couldn't handle a year. I'm talking about the chest strap, which I washed well after workouts and rinsed - this was important to get rid of the salt. The Garmin is still going strong after over 5 years. Garmin is just much better quality than Polar. Many years ago Polar was the pioneer of HRM's, but it hasn't kept up. I wore my first Polar in the late 80's. 

 

I think it is very important to combine slower steady work with Interval training. Interval training builds up your strength, which you will never get if you just straight row all the time... with the added bonus it's not as tedious and doesn't take as long.

[GarryP]

My Polar HRM works great. It syncs with the PM5 monitor with barely any delay. Very happy with it. The only issue is that I do not think the strap will have a long life. There are already a couple of elastic threads showing. 

 

Anybody doing the Concept Halloween Challenge? 31 kms between 25 and 31 October so not an overly challenging challenge.  

 

 

[tropo]

12 minutes ago, GarryP said:

My Polar HRM works great. It syncs with the PM5 monitor with barely any delay. Very happy with it. The only issue is that I do not think the strap will have a long life. There are already a couple of elastic threads showing. 

 

Anybody doing the Concept Halloween Challenge? 31 kms between 25 and 31 October so not an overly challenging challenge.  

 

 

(Good to hear from someone again on this thread - I was getting lonely LOL)

 

I gave up on Polar products after my last one broke. My Garmin strap doesn't have a loose thread after 5 years. What about the transmitter on your chest - is it thick? Do you hit it?

 

Re the challenge - you must have started that already. That's a good challenge that won't tempt you to go too crazy. As I divide my meters between the rower and SkiErg these days, I don't do that much on each one. I averaged 100,000m per month in my first 2 months on the SkiErg, but now that my knees are improving I'm rowing a bit more and SkiErging a bit less. Having the 2 really makes my cardio sessions more enjoyable as I transfer between the 2 in one session, so I don't get so bored. I think overcoming boredom is the key to staying with cardio training long term.

 

LOL> It's like I'm trying to convince you guys to buy a SkiErg. If you do you won't regret it.

 

I found out the BikeErg won't ship to Asia until the end of 2018, so that's still a year to wait.

Edited October 27, 2017 by tropo

[GarryP]

The transmitter is larger than the Garmin but I have not hit it yet. 

 

I did not workout before work this morning as I had to be in the office by 7 am. However, I am still trying my best to exercise 5 days a week so I am looking about 140,000m per month. Yesterday, being off work I did a 30 minute session followed by eight 500m intervals. I hope to do the same again tomorrow and on Sunday. On Monday I will rest.  Luckily, boredom does not seem to be too much of an issue with me. But for my 30 minute minute sessions I always wear my earphones and listen to music. For intervals I do not need that distraction at all. 

 

I think I will give the BikeEg a miss.  I used to have a  upright exercise bike and also a secondhand spinning bike, but prefer the rower.    

[tropo]

5 hours ago, GarryP said:

The transmitter is larger than the Garmin but I have not hit it yet. 

 

I did not workout before work this morning as I had to be in the office by 7 am. However, I am still trying my best to exercise 5 days a week so I am looking about 140,000m per month. Yesterday, being off work I did a 30 minute session followed by eight 500m intervals. I hope to do the same again tomorrow and on Sunday. On Monday I will rest.  Luckily, boredom does not seem to be too much of an issue with me. But for my 30 minute minute sessions I always wear my earphones and listen to music. For intervals I do not need that distraction at all. 

 

I think I will give the BikeEg a miss.  I used to have a  upright exercise bike and also a secondhand spinning bike, but prefer the rower.    

I wouldn't like to train with headphones on, but I pump up the music on my home system when I row. It doesn't make rowing any less boring though. Maybe you need to get past your first couple of years before the boredom sets in, or maybe you're one of the lucky ones who can do endless cardio without boredom. A BikeErg will be a great combo with rowing, as you can give your back and arms a break. I used to do cardio like this at the sports club - swap from one machine to another and always included an exercycle session.

[TaveewatLim]

18 hours ago, GarryP said:

My Polar HRM works great. It syncs with the PM5 monitor with barely any delay. Very happy with it. The only issue is that I do not think the strap will have a long life. There are already a couple of elastic threads showing. 

 

Anybody doing the Concept Halloween Challenge? 31 kms between 25 and 31 October so not an overly challenging challenge.  

 

 

You can buy only strap if your old strap is worn out. It cost about 800B.

This year I didn't join any C2 challenging. I do interval workout between weight training and 500m row. My daily meter is just about 3500m.

[TaveewatLim]

Just completed 2,000,000  meters.

[tropo]

3 hours ago, TaveewatLim said:

Just completed 2,000,000  meters.

Well done! How long did that take you?

 

I'm nearly there myself. I will make it later this month. This is just on my new PM5. I did about 2M on my old PM4 too but didn't upload it as I was going and lost quite a bit when my log cards played up. They were are real pain in the *ss.

 

I'm now dividing my time between the SkyErg and the Rower, so no major meters every month. Next year I intend to get the BikeErg too, but I heard from headquarters that it won't be available in this area until the 3rd quarter (Spring) of next year.

 

 

[TaveewatLim]

6 hours ago, tropo said:

Well done! How long did that take you?

 

I'm nearly there myself. I will make it later this month. This is just on my new PM5. I did about 2M on my old PM4 too but didn't upload it as I was going and lost quite a bit when my log cards played up. They were are real pain in the *ss.

 

I'm now dividing my time between the SkyErg and the Rower, so no major meters every month. Next year I intend to get the BikeErg too, but I heard from headquarters that it won't be available in this area until the 3rd quarter (Spring) of next year.

 

 

I took almost 4 years to reach 2 million meters. 

[GarryP]

I completed my first million in November. I started recording my times/distances on 21 February using the  ErgData app, a week or so after buying the machine.  Working on the Holiday Challenge at the moment, which despite taking a week off to get married, should be easy enough. The leader on this challenge  is a 64 year old gentleman who has done 1,489,682 meters since 23 November 2017. An amazing figure, but doesn't he have anything else to do? That works out at nearly 74.5kms per day.

[tropo]

30 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I completed my first million in November. I started recording my times/distances on 21 February using the  ErgData app, a week or so after buying the machine.  Working on the Holiday Challenge at the moment, which despite taking a week off to get married, should be easy enough. The leader on this challenge  is a 64 year old gentleman who has done 1,489,682 meters since 23 November 2017. An amazing figure, but doesn't he have anything else to do? That works out at nearly 74.5kms per day.

 

3

He's doing himself far more harm than good. It's always the way - people take a good thing and spoil it by obsessing over it. Moderation is not in their dictionary. Do they have performance numbers so you can see how hard they are pushing?

 

Going on your first 8.3 months of rowing, you're averaging 120,000m per month. That's more than enough and 1.44 million a year. The SkiErg provides approximately the same intensity over time (calories burned/watts), so combined I'm averaging about that. My first 4 months on the SkiErg have averaged 90,000m/month. I was aiming for 100,000m a month but just fell short. There's no need to obsess about distance, as long as you're having a good workout. 

[tropo]

2 hours ago, TaveewatLim said:

I took almost 4 years to reach 2 million meters. 

How did you manage to row over 500k in 2018? Do you have a time machine? I want one of those too so I can go back to 1988 and start rowing correctly LOL.

[GarryP]

15 minutes ago, tropo said:

How did you manage to row over 500k in 2018? Do you have a time machine? I want one of those too so I can go back to 1988 and start rowing correctly LOL.

The 2018 Season started on 1 May 2017 and ends on 30 April 2018. 

 

What is your drag factor? I increased mine slightly and my performance went up too. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by GarryP

[tropo]

8 minutes ago, GarryP said:

The 2018 Season started on 1 May 2017 and ends on 30 April 2018. 

 

What is your drag factor? I increased mine slightly and my performance went up too. 

My drag factor is as a new machine because I keep the fan cage/blades very clean, but I'd have to test it to give you the exact number. My favourite damper setting is 5, with regular excursions to 6 and sometimes 7, but 6 and 7 are maintained for short durations. I don't find rowing at 7 or higher very comfortable. Higher damper settings allow me to activate the legs a bit more.

[TaveewatLim]

13 hours ago, GarryP said:

I completed my first million in November. I started recording my times/distances on 21 February using the  ErgData app, a week or so after buying the machine.  Working on the Holiday Challenge at the moment, which despite taking a week off to get married, should be easy enough. The leader on this challenge  is a 64 year old gentleman who has done 1,489,682 meters since 23 November 2017. An amazing figure, but doesn't he have anything else to do? That works out at nearly 74.5kms per day.

I'm join Holliday challenge too. Hope to get the pin of this year.

Holliday challenge is the only challenge that I join in this season.

 

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, TaveewatLim said:

I'm join Holliday challenge too. Hope to get the pin of this year.

Holliday challenge is the only challenge that I join in this season.

 

 

I hit 99,000 meters before work this morning so a bit behind you. My wife would not have been happy if I was still rowing during our wedding break last week. 

[TaveewatLim]

Mission completed.

[tropo]

4 hours ago, TaveewatLim said:

Mission completed.

I wonder, do they combine Row, Ski and Bike Erg meters? From the look of that certificate, they do. If I combine Ski and Row and can get some decent total distances.

[TaveewatLim]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

I wonder, do they combine Row, Ski and Bike Erg meters? From the look of that certificate, they do. If I combine Ski and Row and can get some decent total distances.

Yes it combine row and ski but for bike it count only half of total distances.

[superglue]

9 minutes ago, TaveewatLim said:

Yes it combine row and ski but for bike it count only half of total distances.

The result with be a painful ass and a smaller bank account.