Steroid Vacation In Thailand

[firestar]

... smoke their life away, GET THE DRIFT????

When I used to do power lifting several years ago you could get it from the docs, he would keep a check on you, now the enlightened ones have decided to make it S4, now you have to buy black market, well not in thailand, at least not 10 months ago, so if there are any life threatening medical conditions arising from steroids they are probably due to the quality purchased from unscrupulous dealers or the lack of knowledge or guidance.

Any athlete could suffer heart attack and I bet never took steriods.

The man that I trained with made it to the world power lifting titles many times, his health suffered from NARCOTICS abuse

His friends are black belt in martial arts and heavy weight powerlifters amongst others I have known, none of them suffered any problems either physical or psychological

You couch potatoes that surf the bars and the internet dont live in the real world, you see the world thru the bottom of your glass, you all trust doctors and take their drugs, if only you knew what your little pills are doing to you, Im sure you will shit yourself.

Mainstream use to tell people steroids would kill you, now it's the opposite, if you don't say it's harmless in reasonable quantities you are set upon by the bros as a misinformed couch potato idiot who doesn't know shit...

BROscience is unfortunately as tyrannical and narrow minded as the mainstream science it has replaced.

I did one light cycle, for boxing purposes, a tiny skin overgrowth on the side of my ribs who hadn't changed for years grew ten times bigger, was benign and had it removed still it got me thinking what if is was on my pancreas or liver.

Personally I believe adults should be allowed to make their own choices (whatever the drug) but ALL CAPS foaming at the mouth posts like yours don't really help your case.

Actually I need to post a P.S. its not the always the drugs that have a psychological affect, its one eyed narrow minded people that think they know everything after one stint on steriods that may tend to unstabilise someone.

My CAPS was intended to highlight the hypocricy and not for a cause/case, and foaming at the mouth!!!, can you actually do that when your having a laugh while your writing, you didnt find my post funny! , oh dear, you obviously understood what i was trying to put across just as many know sooo much about steroids and bikies/bikers etc etc and manage to form a maligned opinion on anything that makes them sound like they know something, its the only claim to fame some manage to achieve, well good on you and I hope your post helps you get a better nights sleep, better than taking drugs i guess. Just for your information, if you were taking a growth hormone that could have qwite possibly had something to do with your growth spot

My story was anecdotal, never said it was more than that (although I know a lot more about the subject than you might think).

but thank you for perfectly illustrating my post about BROscience intolerance.

as for my claims to fame penis lengh garbage.. feel free to PM we can compare our life achievements

[bangkokheat]

... smoke their life away, GET THE DRIFT????

When I used to do power lifting several years ago you could get it from the docs, he would keep a check on you, now the enlightened ones have decided to make it S4, now you have to buy black market, well not in thailand, at least not 10 months ago, so if there are any life threatening medical conditions arising from steroids they are probably due to the quality purchased from unscrupulous dealers or the lack of knowledge or guidance.

Any athlete could suffer heart attack and I bet never took steriods.

The man that I trained with made it to the world power lifting titles many times, his health suffered from NARCOTICS abuse

His friends are black belt in martial arts and heavy weight powerlifters amongst others I have known, none of them suffered any problems either physical or psychological

You couch potatoes that surf the bars and the internet dont live in the real world, you see the world thru the bottom of your glass, you all trust doctors and take their drugs, if only you knew what your little pills are doing to you, Im sure you will shit yourself.

Mainstream use to tell people steroids would kill you, now it's the opposite, if you don't say it's harmless in reasonable quantities you are set upon by the bros as a misinformed couch potato idiot who doesn't know shit...

BROscience is unfortunately as tyrannical and narrow minded as the mainstream science it has replaced.

I did one light cycle, for boxing purposes, a tiny skin overgrowth on the side of my ribs who hadn't changed for years grew ten times bigger, was benign and had it removed still it got me thinking what if is was on my pancreas or liver.

Personally I believe adults should be allowed to make their own choices (whatever the drug) but ALL CAPS foaming at the mouth posts like yours don't really help your case.

Actually I need to post a P.S. its not the always the drugs that have a psychological affect, its one eyed narrow minded people that think they know everything after one stint on steriods that may tend to unstabilise someone.

My CAPS was intended to highlight the hypocricy and not for a cause/case, and foaming at the mouth!!!, can you actually do that when your having a laugh while your writing, you didnt find my post funny! , oh dear, you obviously understood what i was trying to put across just as many know sooo much about steroids and bikies/bikers etc etc and manage to form a maligned opinion on anything that makes them sound like they know something, its the only claim to fame some manage to achieve, well good on you and I hope your post helps you get a better nights sleep, better than taking drugs i guess. Just for your information, if you were taking a growth hormone that could have qwite possibly had something to do with your growth spot

My story was anecdotal, never said it was more than that (although I know a lot more about the subject than you might think).

but thank you for perfectly illustrating my post about BROscience intolerance.

as for my claims to fame penis lengh garbage.. feel free to PM we can compare our life achievements

oh i see, this is about your penis length, please do compare your life achievements but not your penis, Im sure its longer, is one of them slagging off at others you never met trying to impress everyone pft

[wildorchid]

to each his own, all things in moderation, enter at your own risk, you reap what you sow, make your bed now lay in it, KARMA.

[hellodolly]

I have known many people that cant drink rum without going off the rails and thinking they are invincible, same applies to other alcohol affecting everyone differently, cop shops are full of them and if your lucky you can even catch the action live

GOVERNMENT WARNING, DRINK DRIVING KILLS

DOCTORS WARNING, STOP DRINKING OR YOU WILL DIE

OUTCOME OF AUTOPSY, DEATH FROM ALCOHOL POISONING

DID YOU READ THE NEWS, THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO CLASSIFY ALCOHOL AS AN S4 DRUG, they will catch you and charge you with consumption with the intent to harm yourself AND others (bit like a terrorist with a hand grenade)

GOVERNMENT WARNING, SMOKING KILLS, HARMS OTHERS, HARMS YOUR BABY, GIVES YOU CANCER, you seen the pictures on the packets?????

NEWS FLASH, GOVERNMENT TO INCREASE TAX'S AND TRAFFIC FINES DUE TO BANNING THE SALE OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS BECAUSE THEIR CONSCIENCE IS GETTING THE BETTER OF THEM

Fats food, alcohol, sugar, tobacco to name a few is the underlying cause to most medical problems, its your choice what you stuff in your mouth or your body and yes that includes steriods.

Im sure all this propaganda about steriods started because some politicians hot wife got porked by their hunk of a pool cleaner, so he decided to make it an S4 drug and try screw up the motivated individuals who are trying to do something of their choice with their body rather than go to places like pattaya to drink and smoke their life away, GET THE DRIFT????

When I used to do power lifting several years ago you could get it from the docs, he would keep a check on you, now the enlightened ones have decided to make it S4, now you have to buy black market, well not in thailand, at least not 10 months ago, so if there are any life threatening medical conditions arising from steroids they are probably due to the quality purchased from unscrupulous dealers or the lack of knowledge or guidance.

Any athlete could suffer heart attack and I bet never took steriods.

The man that I trained with made it to the world power lifting titles many times, his health suffered from NARCOTICS abuse

His friends are black belt in martial arts and heavy weight powerlifters amongst others I have known, none of them suffered any problems either physical or psychological

You couch potatoes that surf the bars and the internet dont live in the real world, you see the world thru the bottom of your glass, you all trust doctors and take their drugs, if only you knew what your little pills are doing to you, Im sure you will shit yourself.

Sorry to report to you that I don't drink or smoke to see the world. I get out in it and partake of it.

It is obvious from your post that you see it in the mirror.

There are medical uses for steroids but to just take them so you can look like a muscle head.

[firestar]

oh i see, this is about your penis length, please do compare your life achievements but not your penis, Im sure its longer, is one of them slagging off at others you never met trying to impress everyone pft

Errrr I am the one slagging off or wanting to compare penis lengh?!?

Who wrote this:

You couch potatoes that surf the bars and the internet dont live in the real world, you see the world thru the bottom of your glass, you all trust doctors and take their drugs, if only you knew what your little pills are doing to you, Im sure you will shit yourself.

to form a maligned opinion on anything that makes them sound like they know something its the only claim to fame some manage to achieve

What you fail to understand is that I have no problem whatsoever with steroid use, what bothers me is those complaining mainstream science imposes their views but then jump on anyone that doesn't share theirs, calling them couch potatoes, idiots brain washed...

[firestar]

oh i see, this is about your penis length, please do compare your life achievements but not your penis, Im sure its longer, is one of them slagging off at others you never met trying to impress everyone pft

Errrr I am the one slagging off or wanting to compare penis lengh?!?

Who wrote this:

You couch potatoes that surf the bars and the internet dont live in the real world, you see the world thru the bottom of your glass, you all trust doctors and take their drugs, if only you knew what your little pills are doing to you, Im sure you will shit yourself.

to form a maligned opinion on anything that makes them sound like they know something its the only claim to fame some manage to achieve

What you fail to understand is that I have no problem whatsoever with steroid use, what bothers me is that those complaining mainstream science imposes their views then jump on anyone that doesn't share theirs :;2 cents::

[firestar]

oh i see, this is about your penis length, please do compare your life achievements but not your penis, Im sure its longer, is one of them slagging off at others you never met trying to impress everyone pft

Errrr I am the one slagging off or wanting to compare penis lengh?!?

Who wrote this:

You couch potatoes that surf the bars and the internet dont live in the real world, you see the world thru the bottom of your glass, you all trust doctors and take their drugs, if only you knew what your little pills are doing to you, Im sure you will shit yourself.

to form a maligned opinion on anything that makes them sound like they know something its the only claim to fame some manage to achieve

What you fail to understand is that I have no problem whatsoever with steroid use, what bothers me is that those complaining mainstream science imposes their views then jump on anyone that doesn't share theirs ::2 cents::

Edited May 28, 2012 by firestar

[bangkokheat]

I have known many people that cant drink rum without going off the rails and thinking they are invincible, same applies to other alcohol affecting everyone differently, cop shops are full of them and if your lucky you can even catch the action live

GOVERNMENT WARNING, DRINK DRIVING KILLS

DOCTORS WARNING, STOP DRINKING OR YOU WILL DIE

OUTCOME OF AUTOPSY, DEATH FROM ALCOHOL POISONING

DID YOU READ THE NEWS, THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO CLASSIFY ALCOHOL AS AN S4 DRUG, they will catch you and charge you with consumption with the intent to harm yourself AND others (bit like a terrorist with a hand grenade)

GOVERNMENT WARNING, SMOKING KILLS, HARMS OTHERS, HARMS YOUR BABY, GIVES YOU CANCER, you seen the pictures on the packets?????

NEWS FLASH, GOVERNMENT TO INCREASE TAX'S AND TRAFFIC FINES DUE TO BANNING THE SALE OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS BECAUSE THEIR CONSCIENCE IS GETTING THE BETTER OF THEM

Fats food, alcohol, sugar, tobacco to name a few is the underlying cause to most medical problems, its your choice what you stuff in your mouth or your body and yes that includes steriods.

Im sure all this propaganda about steriods started because some politicians hot wife got porked by their hunk of a pool cleaner, so he decided to make it an S4 drug and try screw up the motivated individuals who are trying to do something of their choice with their body rather than go to places like pattaya to drink and smoke their life away, GET THE DRIFT????

When I used to do power lifting several years ago you could get it from the docs, he would keep a check on you, now the enlightened ones have decided to make it S4, now you have to buy black market, well not in thailand, at least not 10 months ago, so if there are any life threatening medical conditions arising from steroids they are probably due to the quality purchased from unscrupulous dealers or the lack of knowledge or guidance.

Any athlete could suffer heart attack and I bet never took steriods.

The man that I trained with made it to the world power lifting titles many times, his health suffered from NARCOTICS abuse

His friends are black belt in martial arts and heavy weight powerlifters amongst others I have known, none of them suffered any problems either physical or psychological

You couch potatoes that surf the bars and the internet dont live in the real world, you see the world thru the bottom of your glass, you all trust doctors and take their drugs, if only you knew what your little pills are doing to you, Im sure you will shit yourself.

Sorry to report to you that I don't drink or smoke to see the world. I get out in it and partake of it.

It is obvious from your post that you see it in the mirror.

There are medical uses for steroids but to just take them so you can look like a muscle head.

well then part of my post obviously doesnt apply to you does it? muscle head!! its usually the girls that woo the muscle heads and the guys call them freaks. Is it fear maybe or insecurity you suffer from?

[moe666]

Sure why not. I never advise people to use. I'm training drug free too. But I believe there should be a choice and those scare tactics are counter productive.

A couple of years ago there was an interview with 3 body builders in the states I believe they were in their 50s. Each of them had been useing various steriodial drugs for years to enhance their training. They all agreed that the governments tactics to demonize these drugs was a failure. They stated that the people who use steriods can see for themselves the results and if taken properly there are no side affects especially the roid rage, the physical problem. One of the gentleman stated that considering the use of steriods or over 30 years the only affect had been some man boobs.

[hellodolly]

I don't know how many people read the initial article and followed up on the link to the complete story.

So I thought I would post it here.

He says

"I take deca [a popular, slow-bulking, synthetic steroid] for my joints and muscle tears and I take human growth hormones, which is phenomenal in that it gives me enormous energy and makes me so much more alert."

Not up on body building but it seems to me that if I was getting joints and muscle tears instead of taking steroids it would be prudent to change my work out schedule.

The picture of him walking down a street in Pataya all bronzed up and scantly dressed (unless you are on the beach) tells me he does it because it will attract a lot of chicks and he can look in the mirror and admire himself.

Steroid user Tim 'Sharky' Ward in Pattaya. Photo: Anthony Johnson

TIM ''SHARKY'' WARD is an imposing former Gold Coast loan shark. He has also become an online social media celebrity among the amateur bodybuilding community, boasting more than 30,000 followers.

Now living in the Thai beach resort of Pattaya, he openly admits to being a full-time steroid user.

''I take testosterone, I take deca [a popular, slow-bulking, synthetic steroid] for my joints and muscle tears and I take human growth hormones, which is phenomenal in that it gives me enormous energy and makes me so much more alert.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.a...l#ixzz1wBXvZUc1

[firestar]

He doesn't do it for "the chicks", purely for attention. The facebook pics, the tats, the shirtless micro short walks... mommy issues if you ask me.

The picture of him walking down a street in Pataya all bronzed up and scantly dressed (unless you are on the beach) tells me he does it because it will attract a lot of chicks and he can look in the mirror and admire himself.

Edited May 28, 2012 by firestar

[KeyserSoze01]

Why have Zyzz as a role model. Ripped at 21 yrs old, heart explodes at 22.

Live fast, die young, leave a pretty corpse.

Look at Schwarzenegger or Silvester Stallone. Both filled themself up with Steroids and didn't explode.

No, they just deflated.

Then

Now

[gand]

I don't know how many people read the initial article and followed up on the link to the complete story.

So I thought I would post it here.

He says

"I take deca [a popular, slow-bulking, synthetic steroid] for my joints and muscle tears and I take human growth hormones, which is phenomenal in that it gives me enormous energy and makes me so much more alert."

Not up on body building but it seems to me that if I was getting joints and muscle tears instead of taking steroids it would be prudent to change my work out schedule.

The picture of him walking down a street in Pataya all bronzed up and scantly dressed (unless you are on the beach) tells me he does it because it will attract a lot of chicks and he can look in the mirror and admire himself.

Steroid user Tim 'Sharky' Ward in Pattaya. Photo: Anthony Johnson

TIM ''SHARKY'' WARD is an imposing former Gold Coast loan shark. He has also become an online social media celebrity among the amateur bodybuilding community, boasting more than 30,000 followers.

Now living in the Thai beach resort of Pattaya, he openly admits to being a full-time steroid user.

''I take testosterone, I take deca [a popular, slow-bulking, synthetic steroid] for my joints and muscle tears and I take human growth hormones, which is phenomenal in that it gives me enormous energy and makes me so much more alert.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.a...l#ixzz1wBXvZUc1

Don't body builders prefer men to women?

Q: Why is it hard for women to find men who are sensitive, caring and good looking?

A: Because those men already have boyfriends

[ttelise]

... smoke their life away, GET THE DRIFT????

When I used to do power lifting several years ago you could get it from the docs, he would keep a check on you, now the enlightened ones have decided to make it S4, now you have to buy black market, well not in thailand, at least not 10 months ago, so if there are any life threatening medical conditions arising from steroids they are probably due to the quality purchased from unscrupulous dealers or the lack of knowledge or guidance.

Any athlete could suffer heart attack and I bet never took steriods.

The man that I trained with made it to the world power lifting titles many times, his health suffered from NARCOTICS abuse

His friends are black belt in martial arts and heavy weight powerlifters amongst others I have known, none of them suffered any problems either physical or psychological

You couch potatoes that surf the bars and the internet dont live in the real world, you see the world thru the bottom of your glass, you all trust doctors and take their drugs, if only you knew what your little pills are doing to you, Im sure you will shit yourself.

Mainstream use to tell people steroids would kill you, now it's the opposite, if you don't say it's harmless in reasonable quantities you are set upon by the bros as a misinformed couch potato idiot who doesn't know shit...

BROscience is unfortunately as tyrannical and narrow minded as the mainstream science it has replaced.

I did one light cycle, for boxing purposes, a tiny skin overgrowth on the side of my ribs who hadn't changed for years grew ten times bigger, was benign and had it removed still it got me thinking what if is was on my pancreas or liver.

Personally I believe adults should be allowed to make their own choices (whatever the drug) but ALL CAPS foaming at the mouth posts like yours don't really help your case.

Actually I need to post a P.S. its not the always the drugs that have a psychological affect, its one eyed narrow minded people that think they know everything after one stint on steriods that may tend to unstabilise someone.

My CAPS was intended to highlight the hypocricy and not for a cause/case, and foaming at the mouth!!!, can you actually do that when your having a laugh while your writing, you didnt find my post funny! , oh dear, you obviously understood what i was trying to put across just as many know sooo much about steroids and bikies/bikers etc etc and manage to form a maligned opinion on anything that makes them sound like they know something, its the only claim to fame some manage to achieve, well good on you and I hope your post helps you get a better nights sleep, better than taking drugs i guess. Just for your information, if you were taking a growth hormone that could have qwite possibly had something to do with your growth spot

In response to earlier statement about narcotics. Opiates are much safer than steroids. Heroine is primarily dangerous due to risk of infection from injecting. The body can reach a state of homeostasis on most opiates, except for some of the synthetics such as methadone and Bupe/suboxone. Fentanyl not so sure about, but it is incredibly short acting.

Opiate can cause a slight decrease in testosterone, but nit in everyone. Liver may be a concern if taking opiates with tylenol.

Steroids, however can cause as follows:

Infection from injection sites or sepsis;

Complete shutdown natural test production

Shifts in the xy pituitary axis

Alterations in GH or IGF-1

Blood sugar issues

Gyno or man boobs like Steven Tyler's nice set

Severe acne

Hair loss that may be irreversible (DHT conversion)

Gastro issues that can necessary if oral ingestion of prohormones such as superdrol

Impotence

Agitation

Enlarged heart chambers particularly on right side which can result in congestive heart failure

Liver issues if ingesting oral PHs Luke superdrol, dbol and etc.

Enlarged jaw and gap tooth ala Arnie

Huge doses can increase blood pressure and cause kidney issues and cardiomyopathy

The thing is, we hear safe because studies are mainly for people taking HRT doses of test sus and etc. That still causes shut down and many of the other problems mentioned above, but this will not cause serious organ issues and cardiac issues.

HRT doses are not high enough to cause an increase in muscle mass or lean weight gains desired by body builders. These dudes are doing huge doses and they might as well as they still need a PCT to prevent permanent shut down and long-term problems whether doing 200 or 1000 test a week.

Edited May 28, 2012 by ttelise

[ttelise]

Sure why not. I never advise people to use. I'm training drug free too. But I believe there should be a choice and those scare tactics are counter productive.

A couple of years ago there was an interview with 3 body builders in the states I believe they were in their 50s. Each of them had been useing various steriodial drugs for years to enhance their training. They all agreed that the governments tactics to demonize these drugs was a failure. They stated that the people who use steriods can see for themselves the results and if taken properly there are no side affects especially the roid rage, the physical problem. One of the gentleman stated that considering the use of steriods or over 30 years the only affect had been some man boobs.

No side effects??? Whatever. No one with any sense says that. All of them have sides during a cycle and can have permanent sides if not a proper PCT in place. Some people say no sides when referring to HRT which is a low dose of test to keep guys in optimal range and restore sexual function, but not high enough for anabolic type muscle gains.

Guys like Sharky are screwed as they have compete shut down and guys doing long term HRT probably have complete shut down. For anabolic gains, one needs to cycle a nice huge dose or a combination of several. Anti e may be necessary during cycle as when you raise test, your body generally raises estrogen and other unwanteds such as SBGH. Then one needs to come off and kick start their system with several PCT drugs to stimulate LH or test production again and to keep estrogen at bay as E can remain high when test drops off when stopping cycle. Failure to do proper PCT will likely result in permanent shut down and permanent damage like gyno. I guess this is safe if you like man boobs and impotence issues.

Sharky has to be on a high dose of test for HRT and might as well do deca. The joints get trashed though when you use some anti Es and reduce your estrogen to nil. Sharky's system us so whacked that one day an erection won't be possible with a cocktail of Viagra, cilias and levitra all mixed together chased with yohimbee, goats weed and icharin.

Edited May 28, 2012 by ttelise

[NanaFoods]

I tend to trust the advice the UK governments gives me on health matters and the information I get from my primary news sources e.g. BBC (TV and on-line) and The Guardian newspaper.

[Shurup]

Can I suggest all those who got their info reading newspapers to just stop posting their nonsense?

[Shurup]

No side effects??? Whatever. No one with any sense says that. All of them have sides during a cycle and can have permanent sides if not a proper PCT in place. Some people say no sides when referring to HRT which is a low dose of test to keep guys in optimal range and restore sexual function, but not high enough for anabolic type muscle gains.

HRT is not enough for anabolic muscle gains? Perhaps you should look up the definition of anabolic. Even a natural low range amount is enough for anabolic gains.

Guys like Sharky are screwed as they have compete shut down and guys doing long term HRT probably have complete shut down.

What? Guys on HRT may have a complete shut down? Is it bad? Aren't they on HRT just because they were already "shut down" or better say weren't producing enough T to function properly? It must be very bad when your nuts don't make any T and then they're shut down to not making any T!

For anabolic gains, one needs to cycle a nice huge dose or a combination of several.

look above again at my reply about definition of anabolic.

Anti e may be necessary during cycle as when you raise test, your body generally raises estrogen and other unwanteds such as SBGH. Then one needs to come off and kick start their system with several PCT drugs to stimulate LH or test production again and to keep estrogen at bay as E can remain high when test drops off when stopping cycle. Failure to do proper PCT will likely result in permanent shut down and permanent damage like gyno. I guess this is safe if you like man boobs and impotence issues.

A permanent shutdown? What is that? What newspaper did you read it from?

Edited May 28, 2012 by Shurup

[Shurup]

In response to earlier statement about narcotics. Opiates are much safer than steroids. Heroine is primarily dangerous due to risk of infection from injecting. The body can reach a state of homeostasis on most opiates, except for some of the synthetics such as methadone and Bupe/suboxone. Fentanyl not so sure about, but it is incredibly short acting.

Opiate can cause a slight decrease in testosterone, but nit in everyone. Liver may be a concern if taking opiates with tylenol.

You forgot to mention the addiction to opiates, the fact that they have to crank up the dose to get their high (so many end up overdosing) and impotence among the other issues caused by screwing up their dopamine response.

Steroids, however can cause as follows:

Infection from injection sites or sepsis;

Complete shutdown natural test production

Shifts in the xy pituitary axis

Alterations in GH or IGF-1

Blood sugar issues

Gyno or man boobs like Steven Tyler's nice set

Severe acne

Hair loss that may be irreversible (DHT conversion)

Gastro issues that can necessary if oral ingestion of prohormones such as superdrol

Impotence

Agitation

Enlarged heart chambers particularly on right side which can result in congestive heart failure

Liver issues if ingesting oral PHs Luke superdrol, dbol and etc.

Enlarged jaw and gap tooth ala Arnie

Huge doses can increase blood pressure and cause kidney issues and cardiomyopathy

Whatever newspapers you're reading, you need to stop it, they don't make you smarter on the subject.

Do you even know what the Shift in xy pituitary axis mean?

Some of the things you mentioned in this quotation are only true at the higher doses of steroids, some of the things you said are nonsense and there is no such thing as a permanent shut down.

Gyno doesn't happen overnight, it can easily be prevented, there are many warning signs and only IF completely ignored the boobs will start growing. Even then at the early stages it can be reversed without surgery.

The thing is, we hear safe because studies are mainly for people taking HRT doses of test sus and etc. That still causes shut down and many of the other problems mentioned above, but this will not cause serious organ issues and cardiac issues.

HRT doses are not high enough to cause an increase in muscle mass or lean weight gains desired by body builders. These dudes are doing huge doses and they might as well as they still need a PCT to prevent permanent shut down and long-term problems whether doing 200 or 1000 test a week.

HRT is perfectly enough for lean muscle gains.

[Shurup]

Why have Zyzz as a role model. Ripped at 21 yrs old, heart explodes at 22.

Live fast, die young, leave a pretty corpse.

Look at Schwarzenegger or Silvester Stallone. Both filled themself up with Steroids and didn't explode.

No, they just deflated.

Then

Now

In my opinion Arnie looks fine for being 65. A lot better actually than many 20-30 y.o. I've seen shirtless in Thailand and I'm sure he can still whoop some <deleted> if he has to.

[Shurup]

Why have Zyzz as a role model. Ripped at 21 yrs old, heart explodes at 22.

Live fast, die young, leave a pretty corpse.

Look at Schwarzenegger or Silvester Stallone. Both filled themself up with Steroids and didn't explode.

Mate, Arnold took steroids only to maintain his muscle mass during the dieting period before a competition and not to gain muscles. Big difference! Nonetheless using steroids is just stupid!!! Andreas Münzer is the perfect example of what happens to you if you do steroids on a regular basis. One half of his liver had numerous table-tennis-ball sized tumors and the other had the same consistency as styrofoam. Check his wikipedia page for more info.

I just found out, that they deleted Münzer's steroid cycle from his wikipedia page, so I had to get it from somewhere else. Here it is:

Weeks 1-10 (before a competition)

ephedrine

aspirin

clenbuterol

valium

captagon-- scheduled 1 drug in the US, meaning no legitimate medical use-- it is an amphetamine-type stimulant--

cytomel

Weeks 1-5

500mg daily of test enanthate

152mg daily of parabolan

150mg daily of dianabol

150mg daily of halotestin

20 IU daily of HGH

20 IU daily of Insulin

Weeks 6-8

300mg daily of masteron

152mg daily of parabolan

250mg daily of winstrol tabs

150mg daily of halotestin

50mg daily of winstrol inj

24 IU daily of HGH

Weeks 9-10

200mg daily of masteron

100mg daily of winny inj

200mg daily of halotestin

400mg daily of winny tabs

24 IU daily of HGH

Insulin daily

IGF-1 daily

Days 1-3 leading up to show

aldactone, lasix

Oh, Arnie and others were openly taken them for muscle gains, it was an acceptable practice ane they were readily available OTC on pharmacies.

Most of the oral steroids can cause liver cancer if taken in large quantities or/and for the extended period of time.

[ttelise]

Not reading newspaper. Speaking from experience and knowledge of being a professional athlete all of my life.

I use an Endo that only works with and trains Olympic and professional athletes and she is a former Soviet Olympian and former endo/trainer for asobiet athletes. She was one of the European pioneers as an endo in administering hGH and steroids for performance gains.

I only did GH a short period of time to heal a broken femur I got in South Africa surfing Dungeons. I don't do or need steroids as my levels are in the 800 + range and my IGF-1 is 300 + at 45 so my natural levels are higher than most 25 year old athletes. I monitor and test frequently and will take hGH and test when my natural levels decline.

HRT is only indicated when test levels perhaps fall around 180 or lower or maybe 200 or so with severe symptoms on low testosterone.

HRT is test ordered by a doctor to get men back in the 500 or 600 range. The normal range depending on labs is like 180 to 1,100.

HRT, therefore, only places men in the normal range and this range is not high enough to get steroid like muscle gains. They will only get results consistent with a normal male and most men are around 500 these days. Gains are also offset because guys with low T generally see corresponding increases of SBGH, e, and e2 which can offset the newer higher test levels.

Even at low doses, HRT causes shut down. Anytime you introduce test, the testes stop producing. This is why you cycle steroids. Do six or eight weeks on and then do a post cycle therapy to stimulate LH in the testes so that the body may start naturally producing again and take substances to kick start system and reduce estrogen to decrease chances if getting gyno.

The longer you take steroids of any kind without stopping, the greater chance you have of permanent shutting down natural testosterone production. If you don't use a post cycle therapy immediately after a 6 or 8 week cycle, you may not be able to stimulate LH production in the testes ever again.

To get gains, one must take huge doses much higher than typical HRT prescribed by a doctor. You ate not looking for test levels of 600 here. Guys are looking to boost test well into the 1,500 or way more range.

HRT may typically be 200 mgs of test once or twice a week.

Body builders may shoot 500 mgs of test once or twice a week or more and stack it with one or more anabolic steroids along with other stuff such as b vitamins, one if several anti estrogens and maybe even hGH.

HRT shutdown:

The downside to going on hormone replacement therapy ordered by a doctor is that it is a life sentence. You stay on it and it shuts down what little natural production one may have left because it is generally not cycled.

There are exceptions to the rule, but I cannot tell you how many high school and college kids I hear every week that did roids without a PCT or took them too long and now have acne, cannot get an erection, have no energy, foggy brain amd are depressed as hell. They are screwed up big time and alot of them are permanently screwed until a doctor or endo will order HRT which us hard to get when young because it us a life sentence.

[ttelise]

Shrupp:

Haha, so many questions and points.

The hypothalamus-pituitary-gonadal hormone axis controls the release of sex hormones. This is thrown out of whack or homeostasis whenever steroids or hGH is used.

Gyno:

Gyno can happen over night and it is very difficult to control or stop. Old school nova or letrozole may be used to stop gyno developing during a cycle. May also try and use clomid or torefemine which is a potent newer AI.

Gyno starts as a bb under the nipple and some letro will knock it out and sometimes it won't. The letro also can cause problems as reducing estrogen to zero can be very bad for joints, sex drive, erections and etc. Men need estrogen at certain levels also.

I cannot tell you how many times, possibly weekly, I run into guys or hear about a high school or college kid running gear for like 10 weeks or more and not using a PCT afterward. The get rebound estrogen, have zero testosterone, cannot get or maintain an erection, have gyno starting, no energy, have acne and crying like a boitch because they are depressed from no testosterone. They also lose all of their gains and then some and many if them are permanently screwed and will end up on HRT for the rest of their life.

Edited May 29, 2012 by ttelise

[geriatrickid]

Actually, steroids are quit cheap and easy to produce. It is just the black market thing in most countries inflates the price. I see no reason that quality test could not be obtained in Thailand provided you knew what you are getting and who you are getting it from. Dudes like Sharkey will know quality once injected.

GH is another matter. I would not take shit sent from China, Mexico it Thailand unless know exactly where it is coming from. While we might not be able to score decent GH, those in the know may be able to get quality at the right price.

Oh yeah, birth control can be dangerous, especially some of the newer stuff like Mirena with synthetic progesterone. Synthetic progesterone can really screw up some women bad. The sad thing is most doctors write it off as post partum issues or early menopause issues because big pharma says so or at least their hot little communication majors they hire as drug reps tell doctors so.

Again I ask, how do you know the steroids provided off script meet basic quality requirements? You state that they can be tested. Yes, that is possible. However, do you think any of these people on steroid junkets test the products? Get real. None of these people buying these drugs in the black market have the slightest clue as to the quality of the products and they most certainly do not know what they are buying because they haven't the slightest clue as to where the drugs came from or who manufactured them.

If it is a normal occurrence for there to be contaminants in legitimately produced drugs, what do you think the likelihood will be for illegally distributed products? In bonafide drugs, there are batch runs that become contaminated when filters disintegrate or ATIs are defective or the wrong dose is created. Legitimate manufacturers will typically pick this up at the production source or shortly after the product is distributed. Products will be immediately recalled and removed so that the negative implications are contained. Do you think any of these black marketers give a <deleted> if there is a recall? Do you think they are even monitoring the products, or have quality assurance mechanisms in place?

This entire thread is a tangent focusing on legitimacy of the use of the drugs, when the core issue is that the products are unverified, manufactured under unverified conditions and more often than not are impure. Any idiot that purchases these drugs from some black marketeer is bereft of common sense. TVF is filled with people complaining about the quality of products in Thailand and yet these same people will purchase drugs from some scuzzball. Brilliant.

[hellodolly]

Had a friend in Canada who was a body builder. Won some competitions. They were for natural body builders not the chemical produced one's. He looked pretty darn good to me.

He told me that it took a lot of work but was worth it. He not only looked good but felt proud that he had done it the natural way.

Now I can not say that he didn't take some of those Body building powders that you see in some health food stores or gym's.

[hellodolly]

Actually, steroids are quit cheap and easy to produce. It is just the black market thing in most countries inflates the price. I see no reason that quality test could not be obtained in Thailand provided you knew what you are getting and who you are getting it from. Dudes like Sharkey will know quality once injected.

GH is another matter. I would not take shit sent from China, Mexico it Thailand unless know exactly where it is coming from. While we might not be able to score decent GH, those in the know may be able to get quality at the right price.

Oh yeah, birth control can be dangerous, especially some of the newer stuff like Mirena with synthetic progesterone. Synthetic progesterone can really screw up some women bad. The sad thing is most doctors write it off as post partum issues or early menopause issues because big pharma says so or at least their hot little communication majors they hire as drug reps tell doctors so.

Again I ask, how do you know the steroids provided off script meet basic quality requirements? You state that they can be tested. Yes, that is possible. However, do you think any of these people on steroid junkets test the products? Get real. None of these people buying these drugs in the black market have the slightest clue as to the quality of the products and they most certainly do not know what they are buying because they haven't the slightest clue as to where the drugs came from or who manufactured them.

If it is a normal occurrence for there to be contaminants in legitimately produced drugs, what do you think the likelihood will be for illegally distributed products? In bonafide drugs, there are batch runs that become contaminated when filters disintegrate or ATIs are defective or the wrong dose is created. Legitimate manufacturers will typically pick this up at the production source or shortly after the product is distributed. Products will be immediately recalled and removed so that the negative implications are contained. Do you think any of these black marketers give a <deleted> if there is a recall? Do you think they are even monitoring the products, or have quality assurance mechanisms in place?

This entire thread is a tangent focusing on legitimacy of the use of the drugs, when the core issue is that the products are unverified, manufactured under unverified conditions and more often than not are impure. Any idiot that purchases these drugs from some black marketeer is bereft of common sense. TVF is filled with people complaining about the quality of products in Thailand and yet these same people will purchase drugs from some scuzzball. Brilliant.

geriatrickid you are getting scarey you make a lot of sense. You say

"Products will be immediately recalled and removed so that the negative implications are contained" by reputable manufacturers. I wonder if they all get destroyed or some disreputable employes sell them on the black market.

[nurofiend]

Can I suggest all those who got their info reading newspapers to just stop posting their nonsense?

no... no you can't.

[ttelise]

Actually, steroids are quit cheap and easy to produce. It is just the black market thing in most countries inflates the price. I see no reason that quality test could not be obtained in Thailand provided you knew what you are getting and who you are getting it from. Dudes like Sharkey will know quality once injected.

GH is another matter. I would not take shit sent from China, Mexico it Thailand unless know exactly where it is coming from. While we might not be able to score decent GH, those in the know may be able to get quality at the right price.

Oh yeah, birth control can be dangerous, especially some of the newer stuff like Mirena with synthetic progesterone. Synthetic progesterone can really screw up some women bad. The sad thing is most doctors write it off as post partum issues or early menopause issues because big pharma says so or at least their hot little communication majors they hire as drug reps tell doctors so.

Again I ask, how do you know the steroids provided off script meet basic quality requirements? You state that they can be tested. Yes, that is possible. However, do you think any of these people on steroid junkets test the products? Get real. None of these people buying these drugs in the black market have the slightest clue as to the quality of the products and they most certainly do not know what they are buying because they haven't the slightest clue as to where the drugs came from or who manufactured them.

If it is a normal occurrence for there to be contaminants in legitimately produced drugs, what do you think the likelihood will be for illegally distributed products? In bonafide drugs, there are batch runs that become contaminated when filters disintegrate or ATIs are defective or the wrong dose is created. Legitimate manufacturers will typically pick this up at the production source or shortly after the product is distributed. Products will be immediately recalled and removed so that the negative implications are contained. Do you think any of these black marketers give a <deleted> if there is a recall? Do you think they are even monitoring the products, or have quality assurance mechanisms in place?

This entire thread is a tangent focusing on legitimacy of the use of the drugs, when the core issue is that the products are unverified, manufactured under unverified conditions and more often than not are impure. Any idiot that purchases these drugs from some black marketeer is bereft of common sense. TVF is filled with people complaining about the quality of products in Thailand and yet these same people will purchase drugs from some scuzzball. Brilliant.

Dude, I have nonclue what you are asking or trying to say. I simply stated:

(1) AAS and PH are cheap, easy to produce and I believe that it would be possible to get quality gear in Thailand;

(2) Body builders taking that stuff all the time can tell quality; and

(3) Guys like Sharky would probably kick some little Thai dudes arse if he sold him bad gear and dude shot himself up with it.

HGH is a bit more difficult. I personally would not do any hGH that did not come from a US pharmacy and it will run a couple thousand a month. The Chinese stuff is very hit or miss, and yes I know several guys who have their GH spun amd tested when importing it from China or Mexico. I would imagine real GH could be obtained in Thailand, but it is going to cost some dough. My point was I would not buy cheap GH in Thailand or anywhere for that matter.

You have no proof either. Only speculation. I know many body builders and have several friends that have juiced for 25 or 30 years. These guys know quality when using it and would not buy, much less travel all the way to Thailand for, bad gear. Even Mexico ships out solid quality gear for cheap prices, but I would nit do GH from Mexico for several reasons.

[ttelise]

Had a friend in Canada who was a body builder. Won some competitions. They were for natural body builders not the chemical produced one's. He looked pretty darn good to me.

He told me that it took a lot of work but was worth it. He not only looked good but felt proud that he had done it the natural way.

Now I can not say that he didn't take some of those Body building powders that you see in some health food stores or gym's.

Unfortunately, it is almost impossible for anyone to come close to winning any professional competitions without something. He may not do steroids, but I bet he is doing oral prohormones which are precursors and basically the same thing. They even require a PCT when you cycle off. They have many that are legal, then FDA catches them and bans those, and the makers create new analogs that have not been banned yet.

The guys these days are modern chemical freaks. I much prefer the old school Arnie look over these modern chemical freak dudes. They are insanely big now.

Edited May 29, 2012 by ttelise

[bangkokheat]

... smoke their life away, GET THE DRIFT????

When I used to do power lifting several years ago you could get it from the docs, he would keep a check on you, now the enlightened ones have decided to make it S4, now you have to buy black market, well not in thailand, at least not 10 months ago, so if there are any life threatening medical conditions arising from steroids they are probably due to the quality purchased from unscrupulous dealers or the lack of knowledge or guidance.

Any athlete could suffer heart attack and I bet never took steriods.

The man that I trained with made it to the world power lifting titles many times, his health suffered from NARCOTICS abuse

His friends are black belt in martial arts and heavy weight powerlifters amongst others I have known, none of them suffered any problems either physical or psychological

You couch potatoes that surf the bars and the internet dont live in the real world, you see the world thru the bottom of your glass, you all trust doctors and take their drugs, if only you knew what your little pills are doing to you, Im sure you will shit yourself.

Mainstream use to tell people steroids would kill you, now it's the opposite, if you don't say it's harmless in reasonable quantities you are set upon by the bros as a misinformed couch potato idiot who doesn't know shit...

BROscience is unfortunately as tyrannical and narrow minded as the mainstream science it has replaced.

I did one light cycle, for boxing purposes, a tiny skin overgrowth on the side of my ribs who hadn't changed for years grew ten times bigger, was benign and had it removed still it got me thinking what if is was on my pancreas or liver.

Personally I believe adults should be allowed to make their own choices (whatever the drug) but ALL CAPS foaming at the mouth posts like yours don't really help your case.

Actually I need to post a P.S. its not the always the drugs that have a psychological affect, its one eyed narrow minded people that think they know everything after one stint on steriods that may tend to unstabilise someone.

My CAPS was intended to highlight the hypocricy and not for a cause/case, and foaming at the mouth!!!, can you actually do that when your having a laugh while your writing, you didnt find my post funny! , oh dear, you obviously understood what i was trying to put across just as many know sooo much about steroids and bikies/bikers etc etc and manage to form a maligned opinion on anything that makes them sound like they know something, its the only claim to fame some manage to achieve, well good on you and I hope your post helps you get a better nights sleep, better than taking drugs i guess. Just for your information, if you were taking a growth hormone that could have qwite possibly had something to do with your growth spot

In response to earlier statement about narcotics. Opiates are much safer than steroids. Heroine is primarily dangerous due to risk of infection from injecting. The body can reach a state of homeostasis on most opiates, except for some of the synthetics such as methadone and Bupe/suboxone. Fentanyl not so sure about, but it is incredibly short acting.

Opiate can cause a slight decrease in testosterone, but nit in everyone. Liver may be a concern if taking opiates with tylenol.

Steroids, however can cause as follows:

Infection from injection sites or sepsis;

Complete shutdown natural test production

Shifts in the xy pituitary axis

Alterations in GH or IGF-1

Blood sugar issues

Gyno or man boobs like Steven Tyler's nice set

Severe acne

Hair loss that may be irreversible (DHT conversion)

Gastro issues that can necessary if oral ingestion of prohormones such as superdrol

Impotence

Agitation

Enlarged heart chambers particularly on right side which can result in congestive heart failure

Liver issues if ingesting oral PHs Luke superdrol, dbol and etc.

Enlarged jaw and gap tooth ala Arnie

Huge doses can increase blood pressure and cause kidney issues and cardiomyopathy

The thing is, we hear safe because studies are mainly for people taking HRT doses of test sus and etc. That still causes shut down and many of the other problems mentioned above, but this will not cause serious organ issues and cardiac issues.

HRT doses are not high enough to cause an increase in muscle mass or lean weight gains desired by body builders. These dudes are doing huge doses and they might as well as they still need a PCT to prevent permanent shut down and long-term problems whether doing 200 or 1000 test a week.

I think to be truly fair you can say that most prescription drugs take for example, antibiotics, my naturopath describes them as being like a hand grenade going off in your body being indiscriminate. I have been doing natural therapies for years and have learnt so much not just about my own body but also about side affects from taking pharmaceuticals, even blood pressure pills are disastrous, I have had hi blood pressure and tried different herbs etc and finally found that acupuncture did the job, In short there are treatments that dont harm you if you look for them, as far as steroids go, its a short cut to get big quick, IF my memory serves me right the ration is 7 to 1 being that to get what it takes 7 years naturally to achieve you can do in 12 months, (something like that just to demonstrate the results) but once you achieve muscle mass then lose it say from non use, it will come back very fast, even naturally, look at arnies pic someone posted, his body does look like an old mans, put him in the gym for a month naturally and see the difference