Yellow Shirt Protests Force House To Adjourn Indefinitely

[phl]

"what they are doing now", or trying to do, is debating the reconciliation bill, which would require both sides to make unpleasant compromises. It probably won't be passed, but debating it is part of the government process.

And the time to apply pressure would be now, before a bill is rushed through and set in stone, which i'm sure is precisely what Thaksin would have been hoping for. Do it so quickly that nobody notices, like the way he got his passport back. Of course passing a bill is a much trickier affair that is hard to hide from the public. Harder still when the front pages are full of all this sort of stuff.

If they were applying pressure legally I don't think anyone would object to what they're doing.

How to apply pressure legally when government does not respect or follow the law?

also what is illegal about demonstrating?

[philw]

The Miracle Year looks like it's going pear shaped already.

All proceeding as expected, not miraculous at all. If any conflicts were actually resolved, now THAT would really be a miracle.

And probably they will, notwithstanding the seemingly panic stricken fear mongerers on here.

[philw]

"what they are doing now", or trying to do, is debating the reconciliation bill, which would require both sides to make unpleasant compromises. It probably won't be passed, but debating it is part of the government process.

And the time to apply pressure would be now, before a bill is rushed through and set in stone, which i'm sure is precisely what Thaksin would have been hoping for. Do it so quickly that nobody notices, like the way he got his passport back. Of course passing a bill is a much trickier affair that is hard to hide from the public. Harder still when the front pages are full of all this sort of stuff.

If they were applying pressure legally I don't think anyone would object to what they're doing.

How to apply pressure legally when government does not respect or follow the law?

also what is illegal about demonstrating?

Can you show a few ways the current government does not respect or follow the law ???

[Reasonableman]

The Miracle Year looks like it's going pear shaped already.

All proceeding as expected, not miraculous at all. If any conflicts were actually resolved, now THAT would really be a miracle.

And probably they will, notwithstanding the seemingly panic stricken fear mongerers on here.

Good to have your steady hand at the helm PW.

[gand]

When laws are not respected nor enforced, you have anarchy.

[Mitker]

The Miracle Year looks like it's going pear shaped already.

All proceeding as expected, not miraculous at all. If any conflicts were actually resolved, now THAT would really be a miracle.

Indeed.

On one side a pay-per-vote strategy to clear the way for a dictator-to-be on the run

On the other side, a group with a predominantly right analysis of the problem but fundamentally wrong solutions.

Between them: a big void.

That smells bad. Like last year.

[phl]

Can you show a few ways the current government does not respect or follow the law ???

even the idea of debate to whitewash convicted criminal is already breaking the law

members of the parliament going to visit, kiss and shake hands with convicted criminal on the run is breaking the law.

member of the parliament personally delivering passport to a convicted criminal is breaking the law.

government allowing live broadcast of speeches by convicted criminal on the run is breaking the law

i hope its enough ways, unless of course you consider all of the above to be respectful and following the law

[gand]

Is the parliament overruling/usurping the judiciary also a coup?

[sjjmmi]

The Miracle Year looks like it's going pear shaped already.

All proceeding as expected, not miraculous at all. If any conflicts were actually resolved, now THAT would really be a miracle.

[bristolgeoff]

i will be watching with interest if it does happen.nothing to surprising it happened before

[heybruce]

How any democratically-minded person here can support the PAD is beyond me...

Don't worry. Your ignorance is forgiven. If you haven't figured out by now that the PAD are fighting for the triumph of rule of law over the dictatorial Thaksin regime, then you will probably never understand. It is only too bad that the PAD is forced into positions where they have to break the law in order to stop the travesty of justice that Thaksin would inflict on Thailand for the benefit of himself.

Rule of law is the very foundation of any democracy. The PAD supports it. Thaksin doesn't. Simple as that really. Everything else is simply people reacting in predictable ways to that basic fact.

When Thaksin submits to the rule of law, and places himself subservient to it, then all the problems stop. As long as he doesn't, the problems don't. Since his personality means he will never do it, nothing short of his demise is ever going to bring peace.

So they're breaking the law in order to preserve it? Isn't that an oxymoron, right up there with "fighting for peace"?

I could write about how the law in Thailand is easily ignored by the rich and well connected of all political stripes, how libel laws effectively hobble the press from doing it's duty as the "fourth estate" of a free society, and other laws limiting free speech that are too sensitive to mention on TV, But I'm not interested in joining the endless debates on these subjects.

So I'm back to my original point: For all its flaws, Thailand is a democracy and has a democratically elected government operating within the law in attempting to debate a legitimate bill (yes, it is legitimate even if it is clearly unpopular with many people). Illegal actions committed to prevent this government from doing its job are against the ideals of democracy, rule of law, and the best interests of Thailand.

Also, a minority party that maintains that a democratically elected government isn't legitimate unless it's a government they approve of isn't really a democratic party, even if they name themselves "Peoples Alliance for Democracy".

[Lite Beer]

Parliament will resume next week; Yellow Shirts take the weekend off

BANGKOK, June 1 - Thailand's House of Representatives will reconvene on Wednesday and Thursday (June 6-7) to consider reconciliation bills but the situation must then be evaluated to decide whether the meeting can proceed, even as alternate venue has been prepared, according to House of Representatives Secretary-General Pitoon Pumhiran.

Later Retired Maj-Gen Chamlong Srimuang and two more of the four key PAD leaders announced that today's demonstration was ended, but the PAD will regroup Tuesday at 3pm at Makhawan Rangsan Bridge near Government House.

They said the next gathering would be prolonged and that the demonstrators stand ready to carry their protest anywhere--depending on the situation.

Some opposition Democrat Party MPs--including Suthep Thaugsuban and Jurin Laksanawisit—did not leave Parliament this afternoon as they were uncertain about the timing of the House sitting to deliberate the reconciliation bills.

House Speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont earlier cancelled the reconciliation bills debate scheduled for today as yellow shirt activists and protesters blocked the lawmakers access to parliament.

Mr Pitoon told them that he had coordinated with Mr Somsak who confirmed that the House session was postponed to June 6 and 7 to consider the reconciliation bills.

However, he said, the situation would be evaluated next week as to whether the session could resume and initially an alternate venue was prepared, but it depends on the final decision of the Speaker.

On June 5, Mr Pitoon said, the House will set to vote in the third reading of the draft constitution amendment and consider the international cooperation frameworks under Article 190 of the constitution which stipulating that any international treaties and agreements must first be approved by parliament.

But the vote on the third reading of the draft charter amendment could not proceed because the Constitution Court agreed to consider the legality of the draft constitutional amendment and issue an injunction to suspend the process until the court ruling.

The court accepted five petitions lodged by a group of Senators and Democrat MPs challenging the legality of the draft charter amendment.

The Court also ordered the Cabinet, House of Representatives, Pheu Thai Party and the Chatthaipattana Party to submit their statements on the charter amendments within 15 days.

A hearing was scheduled for July 5-6 at 9.30am.

Meanwhile, Sondhi Limthongkul, one of four top yellow shirt leaders, announced what he called a victory after Parliament adjourned and postponed debate on the reconciliation bill to next week.

"It is our first step in halting the House deliberating the reconciliation bill,” he said. “The PAD (Yellow Shirts) will keep a close watch on when the bill will be brought up for consideration."

The PAD key leader also claimed another victory as the Constitution Court agreed to consider petitions querying the legality of the charter amendment draft which resulted in the parliament to suspend consideration. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-06-01

[phl]

How any democratically-minded person here can support the PAD is beyond me...

Don't worry. Your ignorance is forgiven. If you haven't figured out by now that the PAD are fighting for the triumph of rule of law over the dictatorial Thaksin regime, then you will probably never understand. It is only too bad that the PAD is forced into positions where they have to break the law in order to stop the travesty of justice that Thaksin would inflict on Thailand for the benefit of himself.

Rule of law is the very foundation of any democracy. The PAD supports it. Thaksin doesn't. Simple as that really. Everything else is simply people reacting in predictable ways to that basic fact.

When Thaksin submits to the rule of law, and places himself subservient to it, then all the problems stop. As long as he doesn't, the problems don't. Since his personality means he will never do it, nothing short of his demise is ever going to bring peace.

So they're breaking the law in order to preserve it? Isn't that an oxymoron, right up there with "fighting for peace"?

I could write about how the law in Thailand is easily ignored by the rich and well connected of all political stripes, how libel laws effectively hobble the press from doing it's duty as the "fourth estate" of a free society, and other laws limiting free speech that are too sensitive to mention on TV, But I'm not interested in joining the endless debates on these subjects.

So I'm back to my original point: For all its flaws, Thailand is a democracy and has a democratically elected government operating within the law in attempting to debate a legitimate bill (yes, it is legitimate even if it is clearly unpopular with many people). Illegal actions committed to prevent this government from doing its job are against the ideals of democracy, rule of law, and the best interests of Thailand.

Also, a minority party that maintains that a democratically elected government isn't legitimate unless it's a government they approve of isn't really a democratic party, even if they name themselves "Peoples Alliance for Democracy".

let me ask you AGAIN, in case you missed it the first time,

How is demonstrating breaking the law?

[sjjmmi]

How any democratically-minded person here can support the PAD is beyond me...

Don't worry. Your ignorance is forgiven. If you haven't figured out by now that the PAD are fighting for the triumph of rule of law over the dictatorial Thaksin regime, then you will probably never understand. It is only too bad that the PAD is forced into positions where they have to break the law in order to stop the travesty of justice that Thaksin would inflict on Thailand for the benefit of himself.

Rule of law is the very foundation of any democracy. The PAD supports it. Thaksin doesn't. Simple as that really. Everything else is simply people reacting in predictable ways to that basic fact.

When Thaksin submits to the rule of law, and places himself subservient to it, then all the problems stop. As long as he doesn't, the problems don't. Since his personality means he will never do it, nothing short of his demise is ever going to bring peace.

So they're breaking the law in order to preserve it? Isn't that an oxymoron, right up there with "fighting for peace"?

I could write about how the law in Thailand is easily ignored by the rich and well connected of all political stripes, how libel laws effectively hobble the press from doing it's duty as the "fourth estate" of a free society, and other laws limiting free speech that are too sensitive to mention on TV, But I'm not interested in joining the endless debates on these subjects.

So I'm back to my original point: For all its flaws, Thailand is a democracy and has a democratically elected government operating within the law in attempting to debate a legitimate bill (yes, it is legitimate even if it is clearly unpopular with many people). Illegal actions committed to prevent this government from doing its job are against the ideals of democracy, rule of law, and the best interests of Thailand.

Also, a minority party that maintains that a democratically elected government isn't legitimate unless it's a government they approve of isn't really a democratic party, even if they name themselves "Peoples Alliance for Democracy".

let me ask you AGAIN, in case you missed it the first time,

How is demonstrating breaking the law?

In my view blocking traffic is breaking the law unless you are using tanks

Edited June 1, 2012 by sjjmmi

[ianf]

Well at least we can now see the yellow shirts for what they really are.

If there is a coup it will be the second time that a democratically elected government is removed with the help of the army and the conservative forces that cannot bear any other party having power.

I think until the military is brought to heel this country is a basket case.

I would arrest the lot of them (yellow shirts) and put them to work on prison farms.

Most of them are government servants and a few months of hard work would do them good, lazy ba$^erds!

What an extraordinary post that shows no understanding whatsoever of the situation!

[gand]

How any democratically-minded person here can support the PAD is beyond me...

How any democratically-minded person here can support the PTP/red shirts is beyond me...

[ianf]

Let me remind some of the posters above that democracy is far more than just voting.

The fundamental basis of democracy is respect for the rule of law.

Without that respect there can be no democracy.

It is quite clear that the red movement and their leadership have no respect for the rule of law.

Therefore, it follows, that they have no concept of democracy.

[ianf]

I would also question the posters who claim that this is a democratically elected government.

In any advance democracy the PTP would not have got away with their tactics or with having a 'leader' who is a criminal on the run.

The wholesale destruction of the opposition's election posters would not have been allowed.

And then that is without analysing their two major 'policy' platforms: free computers and 300 baht a day.

These were not policies but bribes that were carefully designed, in the Thaksin style, to buy votes without sending any money or appearing to contravene election procedure.

But bribes they were and they succeeded with this undemocratic tactic to sway voters in their direction.

That's without talking about peer pressure in areas where red shirts were able to bully, cajole or threaten their fellow villagers.

Personally, I don't think that there was anything democratic about this election.

Edited June 1, 2012 by ianf

[OzMick]

How any democratically-minded person here can support the PAD is beyond me...

Don't worry. Your ignorance is forgiven. If you haven't figured out by now that the PAD are fighting for the triumph of rule of law over the dictatorial Thaksin regime, then you will probably never understand. It is only too bad that the PAD is forced into positions where they have to break the law in order to stop the travesty of justice that Thaksin would inflict on Thailand for the benefit of himself.

Rule of law is the very foundation of any democracy. The PAD supports it. Thaksin doesn't. Simple as that really. Everything else is simply people reacting in predictable ways to that basic fact.

When Thaksin submits to the rule of law, and places himself subservient to it, then all the problems stop. As long as he doesn't, the problems don't. Since his personality means he will never do it, nothing short of his demise is ever going to bring peace.

So they're breaking the law in order to preserve it? Isn't that an oxymoron, right up there with "fighting for peace"?

I could write about how the law in Thailand is easily ignored by the rich and well connected of all political stripes, how libel laws effectively hobble the press from doing it's duty as the "fourth estate" of a free society, and other laws limiting free speech that are too sensitive to mention on TV, But I'm not interested in joining the endless debates on these subjects.

So I'm back to my original point: For all its flaws, Thailand is a democracy and has a democratically elected government operating within the law in attempting to debate a legitimate bill (yes, it is legitimate even if it is clearly unpopular with many people). Illegal actions committed to prevent this government from doing its job are against the ideals of democracy, rule of law, and the best interests of Thailand.

Also, a minority party that maintains that a democratically elected government isn't legitimate unless it's a government they approve of isn't really a democratic party, even if they name themselves "Peoples Alliance for Democracy".

Democracy as I know has an independent judiciary to enforce the laws of the legislature. Now the legislature wants to over-ride the judiciary for the direct benefit of a select group of people closely associated with, and actually members of, the legislature.

There is an immense conflict of interest in that proposed action, and as it appears to be having the direct opposite effect of its claimed purpose, then it immediately arouses the perception of corruption.

Blocking traffic seems to me to be a minor offence compared to passing legislation for self-benefit. As Thaksin should well remember, people will just not tolerate that sort of <deleted>.

[Baloo22]

Would you like Red Icing or Yellow icing on your cupcake??

Will it really make any difference in the lives of the average people here?

Thailand is a land of 10,000 laws, very few of which are enforced. Or, they are enforced only upon person A, and only when person B pays the police or government official to do so. On and on and on.

IMHO, Thailand's number one problem is the systemic corruption that permeates every part of Thai society. What difference will any laws passed by Reds or Yellows make when enforcement can be avoided by simple payment to the proper police "officer" or government official.

Example1: Last year, one day and night of heavy rain flooded most of south Pattaya. Hundreds of homes and small shops damaged by flood waters. Turns out a "canal" (drainage ditch) that was part of the drainage "system" would have carried much of that water out to the sea. Except that several parts had been filled in and structures build on it. How in the world could that happen?? The right payment to the right official. So what if hundreds of people get their homes flooded.

Example2: I came up to Chiang Mai this March during the "smoky season". Smoke from all kinds of fires was causing health risks to thousands of people. Some airline flights into Chiang Rai to be cancelled the smoke was so thick. Large signs were put up with pics of the PM and some other politico and saying "Don't Burn". Does anyone think that the police were enforcing any kind of "burn ban" on anybody? Forgeddaboutit!!!

Example3: Multiply Example1 and 2 by thousands throught Thailand. On and on and on and on.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Baloo22

[Babcock]

Well at least we can now see the yellow shirts for what they really are.

If there is a coup it will be the second time that a democratically elected government is removed with the help of the army and the conservative forces that cannot bear any other party having power.

I think until the military is brought to heel this country is a basket case.

I would arrest the lot of them (yellow shirts) and put them to work on prison farms.

Most of them are government servants and a few months of hard work would do them good, lazy ba$^erds!

Spoken like a true Red-shirt thug - Adhere to my wishes or be forced to work in the 'prison farm' - Real democratic that mate

Coup lover

[maidu]

Let me remind some of the posters above that democracy is far more than just voting.

The fundamental basis of democracy is respect for the rule of law.

Without that respect there can be no democracy.

It is quite clear that the red movement and their leadership have no respect for the rule of law.

Therefore, it follows, that they have no concept of democracy.

agree. The current problem stems from PT's total fixation on doing all they can to cushion their guru, and get him back the money he was fined. The money, for Thaksin and the others, is more important than anything else, though gaining as much power as possible is a close second (because it enables them to amass more money).

Neither T nor the PT clan have denied that the 43 billion Baht will be returned (paid from Thailand's coffers) if this travesty plays out the way they want it.

[phl]

In my view blocking traffic is breaking the law unless you are using tanks

LOL, , in that case half of Thai population including traffic police should be arrested, as creating traffic and traffic jams seems to be the habit on daily basis.

My favorite (not actual me doing it)is parking the car outside 7-11, right on the corner of cross roads, at least 1 meter away from the kerb, in a soi where 2 cars can hardly fit

Or a somtam guy pushing his cart in the middle of the road, totally oblivious to cars or traffic lights.

Edited June 1, 2012 by phl

[Babcock]

Well at least we can now see the yellow shirts for what they really are.

If there is a coup it will be the second time that a democratically elected government is removed with the help of the army and the conservative forces that cannot bear any other party having power.

I think until the military is brought to heel this country is a basket case.

I would arrest the lot of them (yellow shirts) and put them to work on prison farms.

Most of them are government servants and a few months of hard work would do them good, lazy ba$^erds!

What an extraordinary post that shows no understanding whatsoever of the situation!

oh didn't we have a lovely coup

[tragickingdom]

The yellow shirts are fascists not more or less. They deserve a life firing zone. There is no bigger crime in a democracy than blocking the work of a parliament. The ultra rightist Nation should make that very clear to the three readers that they still have. Interesting enough PAD is led by a man who is waiting a lengthy jail sentence for corruption and defrauding creditors and investors. The police com missionary and his fine officers who allowed the blocking of parliament should be immediately be put out of their misery and send home.

There will be no coup, the military know that the outside world would spit on them and that the voters will be unstoppable and will really come out with a million people to tach the elite a lesson.

[gand]

Well at least we can now see the yellow shirts for what they really are.

If there is a coup it will be the second time that a democratically elected government is removed with the help of the army and the conservative forces that cannot bear any other party having power.

I think until the military is brought to heel this country is a basket case.

I would arrest the lot of them (yellow shirts) and put them to work on prison farms.

Most of them are government servants and a few months of hard work would do them good, lazy ba$^erds!

Spoken like a true Red-shirt thug - Adhere to my wishes or be forced to work in the 'prison farm' - Real democratic that mate

Coup lover

Do you equate the red shirts with the red guard or the khner rouge or both?

[phl]

The yellow shirts are fascists not more or less. They deserve a life firing zone. There is no bigger crime in a democracy than blocking the work of a parliament. The ultra rightist Nation should make that very clear to the three readers that they still have. Interesting enough PAD is led by a man who is waiting a lengthy jail sentence for corruption and defrauding creditors and investors. The police com missionary and his fine officers who allowed the blocking of parliament should be immediately be put out of their misery and send home.

There will be no coup, the military know that the outside world would spit on them and that the voters will be unstoppable and will really come out with a million people to tach the elite a lesson.

They did not block the work of Parliament, they blocked the roads. Esteemed members of the Parliament could always walk instead of being driven in, or air lifted

Demonstrations which gather a large number of people usually do happen to block roads as people can not climb trees, and last time i checked demonstrations were perfectly legal and does fall into democracy, to which you refer.

Edited June 1, 2012 by phl

[gand]

The yellow shirts are fascists not more or less. They deserve a life firing zone. There is no bigger crime in a democracy than blocking the work of a parliament. The ultra rightist Nation should make that very clear to the three readers that they still have. Interesting enough PAD is led by a man who is waiting a lengthy jail sentence for corruption and defrauding creditors and investors. The police com missionary and his fine officers who allowed the blocking of parliament should be immediately be put out of their misery and send home.

There will be no coup, the military know that the outside world would spit on them and that the voters will be unstoppable and will really come out with a million people to tach the elite a lesson.

It is only ok if the red shirts do it?

[h90]

Everyone should not forget the basics:

Democracy is the tool to find the best leader for us among ourself. So we don't have some evil dictator and the normal people can focus on their job, not needing to read every detail of every law, because we have elected the best of us to find the best solution for us.

If we have a super rich elite who just buy themself into power with the only purpose to change the rules/laws so they can get even more rich and use the normal population just as useful idi0ts at the election and as asset that brings them the money than the complete concept of Democracy failed.

Any discussion about if something is democratic is than nonsense. This kind of Democracy isn't different than any dictatorship.

[culicine]

The People's Alliance for Democracy keeps trying to disrupt the democratic process and remove democratically elected leaders. I can only assume their name is some kind of attempt at humor.

I don't get involved in Thai politics, but I do think election results should be respected and elected officials allowed to do their jobs.

With rampant vote buying there can be no democracy in Thailand. Thailand is a democracy in name only. Only when all voters can make EDUCATED decisions, free from being paid off, will I consider this a democratic country. There is no incentive for any government to to educate the populace - they will soon find out what their elected members really stand for.