Democrat-Led Chaos On House Floor Was Unavoidable: Abhisit

[OzMick]

So we have just had the judgment on TRT. It's been in the news.

30,000 baht was the sum involved. An entire government and party banned for THIS?.

1/ the crime was committed

2/ the sum involved is irrelevant

3/ the party was banned not the government - they were free to reform (which they did) and form another coalition

4/ the rest not worthy of comment

Edited June 2, 2012 by OzMick

[bigbamboo]

Everything is Thaksin's fault...everything that goes bad in the world is down to him, the floods, the droughts, the earthquakes, the famines, the plagues...having read the political 'comments' over the past few weeks I now understand that everything is down to him....we would be living in nirvana if we could just put him in jail and throw away the key ....

Abhisit is a saint and totally right about everything...like the pope he's infallible... clearly, if Democrats behave abominably it's because Thaksin behaved abominably 6 years ago....if Yellow shirts are forced to organize coups and violence on the streets to get their way, well, it's Thaksin's fault for having won the elections 10 years ago...really if people are so stupid to elect Thaksin then yellows and Dems should be able to use violence to correct the result...it's only fair because Thaksin is evil incarnate...and it's only fair that coup organizers could write a constitution forgiving their illegal acts, but it's morally bankrupt for the party elected to rule the country to try to get their man off yadayadayadayadayadayadayadayadayada

Of course everything is not Thaksin's fault. That blame can be shared along with politicians and generals of all persuasions.

The current crisis however is primarily Thaksin's fault in that he could end it tomorrow if he truly loved Thailand and it's people as much as he loves money, power and himself.

[Moruya]

I don't think any self-respecting human from any nation in the world would want to stand idly by whilst the remaining pillars of society are raped and pillaged by one family and its cohorts.

This isn't democracy in motion its a violation of principles and morals.

This is not a bill for reconciliation it's a piece of legislation that's being enacted to benefit one family. It would be better called the shinawatra law.

Sent from my dog.

[bigbamboo]

Translated from Khun Korn's Facebook:

Why are the Dems so adamant about opposing the reconciliation (read "get out of jail free") bill? Some see the Dems actions in parliament as being inappropriate and perhaps even barbaric.

Why can't we just let it go and let bygones be bygones, some ask...

The simple answer is: if we let this Bill pass then Thaksin will in effect reverse two court decisions, get his money back, be able to run for office again - as someone who has done no wrong.

The more complex answer is: Thailand will become a democracy in name, but in effect we will have a parliament that can do anything, even reverse court decisions and turn wrongs into rights.

Any society where leaders can whitewash themselves of corruption verdicts is a weak and unstable one.

One of our neighbors, the Philippines is also sliding into a slippery slope, not because of the on-going corruption investigation on former President Arroyo but because President Aquino has been allegedly accused of illegally interfering with the Supreme Court - resulting from a personal vendetta by President Aquino following a landmark Supreme Court ruling in 2011 to break up Hacienda Luisita, a giant sugar estate owned by the president's clan.

Thailand's respect for the rule of law is no better, even though we have agencies like the DSI (Dept of Special Investigations), the Chief of the DSI seems to change his position / policy every time there is a change in government. He once found Thaksin being guilty of corruption, today he is reversing his decision.

Worse, is when the parliament rams through a Bill that reverses a judicial ruling for self-interest - that is the lowest of low.

If we don't fight now, there might be nothing left to fight for. Our behavior in parliament is a reflection of how we feel about the "Amnesty Bill" - absolutely, totally, unmentionably unacceptable.

As a Financier I can understand him not knowing the nuances of the Judicial System but surely even Korn must realise that the DSI can only recommend to the Attorney General that charges are forwarded to the courts. He cannot decide the outcome of the investigation. Talk about disrespect for the Rule of Law!

Thailand's respect for the rule of law is no better, even though we have agencies like the DSI (Dept of Special Investigations), the Chief of the DSI seems to change his position / policy every time there is a change in government. He once found Thaksin being guilty of corruption, today he is reversing his decision.

'Even Korn'?........... you mean the only internationally respected Finance Minister to come out of Thailand.

[gand]

I can't wait for mr T to return to Thailand and be charged with High Treason.

[KKvampire]

Everything is Thaksin's fault...everything that goes bad in the world is down to him, the floods, the droughts, the earthquakes, the famines, the plagues...having read the political 'comments' over the past few weeks I now understand that everything is down to him....we would be living in nirvana if we could just put him in jail and throw away the key ....

Abhisit is a saint and totally right about everything...like the pope he's infallible... clearly, if Democrats behave abominably it's because Thaksin behaved abominably 6 years ago....if Yellow shirts are forced to organize coups and violence on the streets to get their way, well, it's Thaksin's fault for having won the elections 10 years ago...really if people are so stupid to elect Thaksin then yellows and Dems should be able to use violence to correct the result...it's only fair because Thaksin is evil incarnate...and it's only fair that coup organizers could write a constitution forgiving their illegal acts, but it's morally bankrupt for the party elected to rule the country to try to get their man off yadayadayadayadayadayadayadayadayada

the level of intelligence of some on TV

[metisdead]

A post using all caps has been removed as well as the replies. Posting in all capitals or in all bold, and using large or unusual fonts and colors is bad netiquette.

[Babcock]

'

Have you read the cr*p sondhi leader of the pad comes out with?

The rich western nations (USA) are trying to colonize Thailand.

I referred to landdestroyer website above. He subscribes to their thinking.

Do you know of sondhi's alleged "Finland accord" between thaksin and the redshirts.

He claimed their plans were for

1) removal of the monarchy

2)western style democracy

3)privatization of all state monopolies

4)overarching capitalist system to be introduced

5) once all this is achieved communism to be introduced to remove capitalist system

Source for all this

Erm... A redshirt guard who erm... Couldn't be produced

The damage was done to thaksin especially the claim for the overthrow of the monarchy.

State unions joined the pad (until recently when they realized that with the pad they would not in future be allowed to vote!)

Now sondhi is convicted for real serious fraud. Over 100 million dollars he borrowed from the banks after falsifying his books. It was a breathtaking fraud. Real fraud and he has a 20 year prison sentence.

The last time he went bankrupt for over 100 million dollars the democrat government appointed his former CFO as the CEO of the bank he owed

The money too.

Guess what? He got "forgiven" the money he owed!

Now his media empire is bankrupt again not unlike the nation. Not enough subscribers.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Babcock

[KKvampire]

Translated from Khun Korn's Facebook:

Why are the Dems so adamant about opposing the reconciliation (read "get out of jail free") bill? Some see the Dems actions in parliament as being inappropriate and perhaps even barbaric.

Why can't we just let it go and let bygones be bygones, some ask...

The simple answer is: if we let this Bill pass then Thaksin will in effect reverse two court decisions, get his money back, be able to run for office again - as someone who has done no wrong.

The more complex answer is: Thailand will become a democracy in name, but in effect we will have a parliament that can do anything, even reverse court decisions and turn wrongs into rights.

Any society where leaders can whitewash themselves of corruption verdicts is a weak and unstable one.

One of our neighbors, the Philippines is also sliding into a slippery slope, not because of the on-going corruption investigation on former President Arroyo but because President Aquino has been allegedly accused of illegally interfering with the Supreme Court - resulting from a personal vendetta by President Aquino following a landmark Supreme Court ruling in 2011 to break up Hacienda Luisita, a giant sugar estate owned by the president's clan.

Thailand's respect for the rule of law is no better, even though we have agencies like the DSI (Dept of Special Investigations), the Chief of the DSI seems to change his position / policy every time there is a change in government. He once found Thaksin being guilty of corruption, today he is reversing his decision.

Worse, is when the parliament rams through a Bill that reverses a judicial ruling for self-interest - that is the lowest of low.

If we don't fight now, there might be nothing left to fight for. Our behavior in parliament is a reflection of how we feel about the "Amnesty Bill" - absolutely, totally, unmentionably unacceptable.

I have no respect for this man.

The same man ( a pad member) who accused thaksin of avoiding tax on the sale of his company having done the exact same thing already. "well I'm not the PM."

The "assets scrutiny committee" set up by his pad colleagues after the coup only ever scrutinized the assets of one man.

As thaksin himself has said:

"the charges (and the convictions) are a joke. Everybody knows this."

6 yrs after the coup and no substantial charges have been brought against thaksin.

All we ever hear is (sinister voices off) further more serious charges are being prepared.

We saw plenty of blatant examples of corruption under the abhisit regime.

Let's not forget after the demonstrations the redshirts were labelled terrorists and 150 major presumed donors to the udd had their accounts frozen etc.

Remember the aim in seizing thaksin's assets was supposed to thwart the udd but and the bbc and others (Rachel harvey, good reporter, not yet charged with LM unlike Jonathan head, 2 counts!) showed funds were raised through gala dinners raffles etc. By the poor.

My brother went to Winchester

With Korn, they're the same age and he doesn't remember him.

What's one more stockbroker amongst many. That's what most of my brothers contempories

seem to go on to do.

How daring!

Makes me think of Cameron's father. Very rich.

But then I'm supposed to be a Tory

well what utter garbage.so Thaksin was convicted but as your PTPUDD buddies claim it was all a fix by the judges who didnt happen to be on Thaksins payroll.

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

In its constant strive to attract foreign investment, Thailand has neglected to establish controls for any funds being transferred into the Kingdom from abroad. Meanwhile, control mechanisms do exist for outgoing funds. This is, for example, one of the reasons why it was discovered that former prime minister – and since fugitive convicted criminal – Thaksin Shinawatra had transferred his shares in Shin Corporation to a mailbox company in the British Virgin Islands audaciously called “Ample Rich Co., Ltd.”, a name that haunts him to this day. The influx of foreign funds has paralyzed Thailand in its actions how to trace the origins of such payments, which has effectively transformed the country into one of the easiest places where to hide your ill-gotten wealth – and made it attractive to the mafia.

http://www.thailawfo...a-thailand.html

"Share Transfers - The fascinating Ample Rich Tax Case comes to an end" By Steven Herring, April 2012

http://www.sherrings...s-to-an-end.php

"Thaksin accused over 'hot money'" May 1, 2007

"DSI uncovers links to laundering and other irregularities, Surayud charges"

http://www.nationmul...es_30033107.php

"Special Report: Thaksin´s 76 bn THB asset seizure case" News Date : 10 Febuary 2010

http://thainews.prd....id=255302100028

"TRT was found guilty of allowing its former leader, ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, to abuse Thailand's April 2006 election as a "tool for monopolizing power" -- specifically for instigating the hiring and paying of smaller political parties to participate in the election. TRT now will be disbanded, and all of its present and former executives will be banned from domestic politics for five years"

"The party used the parliamentary election as "a means to achieve totalitarian power," Judge Vichai Chuenchompoonuj said. "It goes to show that the ... defendant does not believe in the democratic system." Associated Press

"During his five years as premier, Thaksin had grown too big for his fine Italian shoes for the establishment's liking. Even the king's speeches chastised Thaksin, whose wealth - second only to that of the monarchy - bought immense power and sway. He touched the masses through simple, though dubious, policies putting money in their pockets and health care in their hands. "It's a clash of elites within the Thai ruling class. Thaksin and the palace were

competing for the same things politically and economically, particularly the hearts and minds of the masses," said Kevin Hewison, professor of Asian studies at the University of Carolina at Chapel Hill."

"The Thai Rak Thai's crimes are very dangerous to democracy," Judge Krairerk Kasemsant said as Thai Rak Thai officials, including several former Thaksin cabinet colleagues, sat stone-faced as the verdict was read out."

http://www.sulak-siv...d=193&Itemid=77

O this is all anti thaksin made up lies according to the TV loons

[metisdead]

A defamatory post has been removed.

[Jingthing]

'

Have you read the cr*p sondhi leader of the pad comes out with?

...

I agree there is some pretty crazy stuff! But that doesn't translate to being a redhead either. Do you we have to choose?

[hellodolly]

Another stellar example of how the Democrat party under the titular leadership of Mr. Abhisit lost another opportunity to position itself as an alternative to the other political parties. A feeble excuse is given by Mr. Abhisit to explain away his inability to maintain party discipline. There are parliamentary procedures that can be used to hold up a bill and through which those opposed can both oppose a bill and make the governing party look foolish. Unfortunately, the Democrats did not heed the advice of some of its sitting MPs that have the knowledge and instead, the Democrat "managers" allowed some members to run wild.

Thailand needs an alternative to the the PTP and as long as Mr. Abhisit cannot command the respect of his MPs to the point that they will follow a proper strategy or maintain discipline in the House, the Democrats will never be perceived as that alternative. The Democrats could have thought this out, devised a plan and stuck to that plan, but planning and discipline are apparently foreign concepts. Maybe, the vote would have been lost, but the Democrats could have staked out the moral higher ground and been seen as the voice of reason. Now, they are no better than a rowdy mob. How can they be taken seriously?

The military leadership will pay attention to those that are strong and have discipline.Is it any wonder, why the military is distancing itself from Mr. Abhisit and his flighty coterie of well dressed and nicely coiffed advisers?

Truly you are completely out of touch with reality. The government proposes a plan to white wash their leader of all his crimes including the one he is convicted of and give him 46.000.000,000 baht and his sister 900,000,000 baht and you defend them for cutting of debate.

You then go on to say there is a way for them to make the governing party look foolish. When you get your head out of some where you will realize that looking foolish would be an improvement for the PT.

[hellodolly]

Translated from Khun Korn's Facebook:

Why are the Dems so adamant about opposing the reconciliation (read "get out of jail free") bill? Some see the Dems actions in parliament as being inappropriate and perhaps even barbaric.

Why can't we just let it go and let bygones be bygones, some ask...

The simple answer is: if we let this Bill pass then Thaksin will in effect reverse two court decisions, get his money back, be able to run for office again - as someone who has done no wrong.

The more complex answer is: Thailand will become a democracy in name, but in effect we will have a parliament that can do anything, even reverse court decisions and turn wrongs into rights.

Any society where leaders can whitewash themselves of corruption verdicts is a weak and unstable one.

One of our neighbors, the Philippines is also sliding into a slippery slope, not because of the on-going corruption investigation on former President Arroyo but because President Aquino has been allegedly accused of illegally interfering with the Supreme Court - resulting from a personal vendetta by President Aquino following a landmark Supreme Court ruling in 2011 to break up Hacienda Luisita, a giant sugar estate owned by the president's clan.

Thailand's respect for the rule of law is no better, even though we have agencies like the DSI (Dept of Special Investigations), the Chief of the DSI seems to change his position / policy every time there is a change in government. He once found Thaksin being guilty of corruption, today he is reversing his decision.

Worse, is when the parliament rams through a Bill that reverses a judicial ruling for self-interest - that is the lowest of low.

If we don't fight now, there might be nothing left to fight for. Our behavior in parliament is a reflection of how we feel about the "Amnesty Bill" - absolutely, totally, unmentionably unacceptable.

I have no respect for this man.

The same man ( a pad member) who accused thaksin of avoiding tax on the sale of his company having done the exact same thing already. "well I'm not the PM."

The "assets scrutiny committee" set up by his pad colleagues after the coup only ever scrutinized the assets of one man.

As thaksin himself has said:

"the charges (and the convictions) are a joke. Everybody knows this."

6 yrs after the coup and no substantial charges have been brought against thaksin.

All we ever hear is (sinister voices off) further more serious charges are being prepared.

We saw plenty of blatant examples of corruption under the abhisit regime.

Let's not forget after the demonstrations the redshirts were labelled terrorists and 150 major presumed donors to the udd had their accounts frozen etc.

Remember the aim in seizing thaksin's assets was supposed to thwart the udd but and the bbc and others (Rachel harvey, good reporter, not yet charged with LM unlike Jonathan head, 2 counts!) showed funds were raised through gala dinners raffles etc. By the poor.

My brother went to Winchester

With Korn, they're the same age and he doesn't remember him.

What's one more stockbroker amongst many. That's what most of my brothers contempories

seem to go on to do.

How daring!

Makes me think of Cameron's father. Very rich.

But then I'm supposed to be a Tory

Korn a PAD member? No other serious charges against Thaksin? Gala dinners by the poor? You must be joking......

I was thinking more delusional out of control. Let Thaksin come back and there will be a handful of charges.

Besides I believe Thaksin is afraid to come back he knows the people he has teed off and knows that they also have contacts with people who wear black shirts.

[animatic]

The bottom line is not everyone who is your enemies friend is your friend,

you just have one focal point of common dislike.

Just because one group is acting against a 2nd group,

that doesn't mean a 3rd group acting against the 2nd

is in cahoots with the first.

There are things that all parties involved can be ALL blamed for,

and there are some who can be blamed for more aspects than others.

But if you objectively look at the most common, always present negative aspect,

it typically can be seen as the fulcrum that makes most ALL the other parts go into movement against each other.

Remove that one catalytic destructor, and all settles down eventually to a more natural equilibrium.

And when equilibrium is reached natural progress can also resume.

Sadly Thailand is far from that possibility.

"6 yrs after the coup and no substantial charges have been brought against thaksin."

Wholly incorrect.

The charges have been brought, but by his never coming to court for a first round,

they have stopped at that. Under Thai law not coming in to acknowledge the charges

STOPS THE CHARGES SHORT.

Which is the main reason Thaksin has remained off shore, it STOPS THE CHARGES,

But is also why we are at this pass again; PAD versus PTP over legislation to give Thaksin amnesty. It is the ONLY way he can set foot in Thailand an NOT have the charges start up again.

Edited June 2, 2012 by animatic

[hellodolly]

Everything is Thaksin's fault...everything that goes bad in the world is down to him, the floods, the droughts, the earthquakes, the famines, the plagues...having read the political 'comments' over the past few weeks I now understand that everything is down to him....we would be living in nirvana if we could just put him in jail and throw away the key ....

Abhisit is a saint and totally right about everything...like the pope he's infallible... clearly, if Democrats behave abominably it's because Thaksin behaved abominably 6 years ago....if Yellow shirts are forced to organize coups and violence on the streets to get their way, well, it's Thaksin's fault for having won the elections 10 years ago...really if people are so stupid to elect Thaksin then yellows and Dems should be able to use violence to correct the result...it's only fair because Thaksin is evil incarnate...and it's only fair that coup organizers could write a constitution forgiving their illegal acts, but it's morally bankrupt for the party elected to rule the country to try to get their man off yadayadayadayadayadayadayadayadayada

the level of intelligence of some on TV

same as room Celsius temperature.

Edited June 2, 2012 by hellodolly

[Moruya]

'

Have you read the cr*p sondhi leader of the pad comes out with?

The rich western nations (USA) are trying to colonize Thailand.

I referred to landdestroyer website above. He subscribes to their thinking.

Do you know of sondhi's alleged "Finland accord" between thaksin and the redshirts.

He claimed their plans were for

1) removal of the monarchy

2)western style democracy

3)privatization of all state monopolies

4)overarching capitalist system to be introduced

5) once all this is achieved communism to be introduced to remove capitalist system

Source for all this

Erm... A redshirt guard who erm... Couldn't be produced

The damage was done to thaksin especially the claim for the overthrow of the monarchy.

State unions joined the pad (until recently when they realized that with the pad they would not in future be allowed to vote!)

Now sondhi is convicted for real serious fraud. Over 100 million dollars he borrowed from the banks after falsifying his books. It was a breathtaking fraud. Real fraud and he has a 20 year prison sentence.

The last time he went bankrupt for over 100 million dollars the democrat government appointed his former CFO as the CEO of the bank he owed

The money too.

Guess what? He got "forgiven" the money he owed!

Now his media empire is bankrupt again not unlike the nation. Not enough subscribers.

I think that most Westerners on here don't take a shining to Red Shirt principles

I think that most Westerners on here don't adopt Yellow Shirt principles either

It's not a case of this camp or that camp for me - I have no time for anyone who tries to screw the people.

With mobile (smart) phones comes information. The PC has been bypassed. Facebook, Twitter et al bring views to the people.

In time the proletariat will tune in to the facts.

How many onn here would accept the "reconciliation bill" if it had disclaimers to make Thaksin, Sondhi, Jatuporn etc, face the proper legal processs?

[lungmi]

The "fighting" in parliament in Taiwan and South Korea have some parallels. For Taiwan I have the quote of my son (student at the National University of Taipeh at this time):

Corrupt family wanted to take over the Constitution. In South Korea I think the same problem.

[h90]

Another stellar example of how the Democrat party under the titular leadership of Mr. Abhisit lost another opportunity to position itself as an alternative to the other political parties. A feeble excuse is given by Mr. Abhisit to explain away his inability to maintain party discipline. There are parliamentary procedures that can be used to hold up a bill and through which those opposed can both oppose a bill and make the governing party look foolish. Unfortunately, the Democrats did not heed the advice of some of its sitting MPs that have the knowledge and instead, the Democrat "managers" allowed some members to run wild.

Thailand needs an alternative to the the PTP and as long as Mr. Abhisit cannot command the respect of his MPs to the point that they will follow a proper strategy or maintain discipline in the House, the Democrats will never be perceived as that alternative. The Democrats could have thought this out, devised a plan and stuck to that plan, but planning and discipline are apparently foreign concepts. Maybe, the vote would have been lost, but the Democrats could have staked out the moral higher ground and been seen as the voice of reason. Now, they are no better than a rowdy mob. How can they be taken seriously?

The military leadership will pay attention to those that are strong and have discipline.Is it any wonder, why the military is distancing itself from Mr. Abhisit and his flighty coterie of well dressed and nicely coiffed advisers?

Truly you are completely out of touch with reality. The government proposes a plan to white wash their leader of all his crimes including the one he is convicted of and give him 46.000.000,000 baht and his sister 900,000,000 baht and you defend them for cutting of debate.

You then go on to say there is a way for them to make the governing party look foolish. When you get your head out of some where you will realize that looking foolish would be an improvement for the PT.

I still think he is cheating her, she deserves half of it for destroying the rule of law.

[geriatrickid]

Biased b***it.and I tell you why.PTP are so wedded to the ultimate result of getting their beloved fugitive criminal ex PM back and facing no legal charges.Taking any moral high ground and sitting back will achieve nothing. The Thai people who are not Thaksin lackies need to wake up and see what ir going on

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

There are two very distinct issues here. One is the PTP strategy that you perceive and the other is the conduct of the Democrats. They are quite distinct. The Democrats have made multiple claims to being the party that stands for upholding the law, of the having the moral higher ground etc. If so, they then must behave accordingly. This issue is one of the Democrats having a clear and disciplined position. The party does not have that and it will never have it as long as Abhisit and his team of lightweights are unable to lead and to enforce party discipline.

The Democrats are in a marginalized position and have insufficient electorate support with which to be able to win elected office. The only way they can build the support is to reach outside their voting "block". This cannot be achieved unless the Democrats differentiate themselves. If the Democrats were to establish themselves as the bonafide party of honesty and integrity they would crush their rivals at the polls. Having tantrums in the House, disrespecting the House, not dealing with corruption within the party and other inappropriate behaviours means that the Democrats will continue to sink in the polls playing only to their core supporters.

Thailand needs a political party that is an alternative to the PTP and the Democrats are not that alternative. Neither Abhisit, nor Korn have the depth, the strength , nor the understanding of the country with which to builkd such a party. That is why key backers have been quietly leaving the Democrats. The military is now leaning towards the incumbent government and that speaks volumes. This isn't about the sins and crimes of the PTP, Thaksin or some guy up in Issan. this is all a bout the Democrats falling apart under pressure. There were and are experienced people in the Democrats that are trying to help Abhisit, but he does not appear to listen and is instead relying on his coterie of fluffies.

[OzMick]

Biased b***it.and I tell you why.PTP are so wedded to the ultimate result of getting their beloved fugitive criminal ex PM back and facing no legal charges.Taking any moral high ground and sitting back will achieve nothing. The Thai people who are not Thaksin lackies need to wake up and see what ir going on

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

There are two very distinct issues here. One is the PTP strategy that you perceive and the other is the conduct of the Democrats. They are quite distinct. The Democrats have made multiple claims to being the party that stands for upholding the law, of the having the moral higher ground etc. If so, they then must behave accordingly. This issue is one of the Democrats having a clear and disciplined position. The party does not have that and it will never have it as long as Abhisit and his team of lightweights are unable to lead and to enforce party discipline.

The Democrats are in a marginalized position and have insufficient electorate support with which to be able to win elected office. The only way they can build the support is to reach outside their voting "block". This cannot be achieved unless the Democrats differentiate themselves. If the Democrats were to establish themselves as the bonafide party of honesty and integrity they would crush their rivals at the polls. Having tantrums in the House, disrespecting the House, not dealing with corruption within the party and other inappropriate behaviours means that the Democrats will continue to sink in the polls playing only to their core supporters.

Thailand needs a political party that is an alternative to the PTP and the Democrats are not that alternative. Neither Abhisit, nor Korn have the depth, the strength , nor the understanding of the country with which to builkd such a party. That is why key backers have been quietly leaving the Democrats. The military is now leaning towards the incumbent government and that speaks volumes. This isn't about the sins and crimes of the PTP, Thaksin or some guy up in Issan. this is all a bout the Democrats falling apart under pressure. There were and are experienced people in the Democrats that are trying to help Abhisit, but he does not appear to listen and is instead relying on his coterie of fluffies.

So please explain how being nice and playing by the rules stops a party with an majority from pushing through what appears to be a self-serving corrupt bill?

[philw]

Biased b***it.and I tell you why.PTP are so wedded to the ultimate result of getting their beloved fugitive criminal ex PM back and facing no legal charges.Taking any moral high ground and sitting back will achieve nothing. The Thai people who are not Thaksin lackies need to wake up and see what ir going on

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

There are two very distinct issues here. One is the PTP strategy that you perceive and the other is the conduct of the Democrats. They are quite distinct. The Democrats have made multiple claims to being the party that stands for upholding the law, of the having the moral higher ground etc. If so, they then must behave accordingly. This issue is one of the Democrats having a clear and disciplined position. The party does not have that and it will never have it as long as Abhisit and his team of lightweights are unable to lead and to enforce party discipline.

The Democrats are in a marginalized position and have insufficient electorate support with which to be able to win elected office. The only way they can build the support is to reach outside their voting "block". This cannot be achieved unless the Democrats differentiate themselves. If the Democrats were to establish themselves as the bonafide party of honesty and integrity they would crush their rivals at the polls. Having tantrums in the House, disrespecting the House, not dealing with corruption within the party and other inappropriate behaviours means that the Democrats will continue to sink in the polls playing only to their core supporters.

Thailand needs a political party that is an alternative to the PTP and the Democrats are not that alternative. Neither Abhisit, nor Korn have the depth, the strength , nor the understanding of the country with which to builkd such a party. That is why key backers have been quietly leaving the Democrats. The military is now leaning towards the incumbent government and that speaks volumes. This isn't about the sins and crimes of the PTP, Thaksin or some guy up in Issan. this is all a bout the Democrats falling apart under pressure. There were and are experienced people in the Democrats that are trying to help Abhisit, but he does not appear to listen and is instead relying on his coterie of fluffies.

Spot fxxxxg on.

Succinct and to the point.

True as well.

[beammeup]

    Translated from Khun Korn's Facebook:

    

    Why are the Dems so adamant about opposing the reconciliation (read "get out of jail free") bill? Some see the Dems actions in parliament as being inappropriate and perhaps even barbaric.

    

    Why can't we just let it go and let bygones be bygones, some ask...

right wing is not the only alternative to     

    The simple answer is: if we let this Bill pass then Thaksin will in effect reverse two court decisions, get his money back, be able to run for office again - as someone who has done no wrong.

    

    The more complex answer is: Thailand will become a democracy in name, but in effect we will have a parliament that can do anything, even reverse court decisions and turn wrongs into rights.

    

    Any society where leaders can whitewash themselves of corruption verdicts is a weak and unstable one.

    

    One of our neighbors, the Philippines is also sliding into a slippery slope, not because of the on-going corruption investigation on former President Arroyo but because President Aquino has been allegedly accused of illegally interfering with the Supreme Court - resulting from a personal vendetta by President Aquino following a landmark Supreme Court ruling in 2011 to break up Hacienda Luisita, a giant sugar estate owned by the president's clan.

    

    Thailand's respect for the rule of law is no better, even though we have agencies like the DSI (Dept of Special Investigations), the Chief of the DSI seems to change his position / policy every time there is a change in government. He once found Thaksin being guilty of corruption, today he is reversing his decision.

    

    Worse, is when the parliament rams through a Bill that reverses a judicial ruling for self-interest - that is the lowest of low.

    

    If we don't fight now, there might be nothing left to fight for. Our behavior in parliament is a reflection of how we feel about the "Amnesty Bill" - absolutely, totally, unmentionably unacceptable.

I have no respect for this man.

The same man ( a pad member) who accused thaksin of avoiding tax on the sale of his company having done the exact same thing already. "well I'm not the PM."

The "assets scrutiny committee" set up by his pad colleagues after the coup only ever scrutinized the assets of one man.

As thaksin himself has said:

"the charges (and the convictions) are a joke. Everybody knows this."

6 yrs after the coup and no substantial charges have been brought against thaksin.

All we ever hear is (sinister voices off) further more serious charges are being prepared.

We saw plenty of blatant examples of corruption under the abhisit regime.

Let's not forget after the demonstrations the redshirts were labelled terrorists and 150 major presumed donors to the udd had their accounts frozen etc.

Remember the aim in seizing thaksin's assets was supposed to thwart the udd but and the bbc and others (Rachel harvey, good reporter, not yet charged with LM unlike Jonathan head, 2 counts!) showed funds were raised through gala dinners raffles etc. By the poor.

My brother went to Winchester

With Korn, they're the same age and he doesn't remember him.

What's one more stockbroker amongst many. That's what most of my brothers contempories

seem to go on to do.

How daring!

Makes me think of Cameron's father. Very rich.

But then I'm supposed to be a Tory

Korn a PAD member? No other serious charges against Thaksin? Gala dinners by the poor? You must be joking......

Look it up.

If you want to post I suggest you appraise yourself of the facts.

Perhaps you didn't know but socialism is banned in thailand.

That's right. Only right wingers need apply.

Are you suggesting that anyone who opposes Thaksin is a right winger?

[gand]

UFB, how anybody would want to expunge the criminal record of TS. They should be calling for treason charges against him.

[bigbamboo]

Unfortunately Thailand is hopelessly divided with a useless, less corrupt but less popular political grouping on one side and a useless, more popular but even more corrupt political grouping on the other.

If only there was a middle way.

Edited June 3, 2012 by bigbamboo

[thaicbr]

Unfortunately Thailand is hopelessly divided with a useless, less corrupt but less popular political grouping on one side and a useless, more popular but even more corrupt political grouping on the other.

If only there was a middle way.

What about naming that new PAO Yolanda the new Prime Minister. After all she has the looks AND had the balls

Edit. To correct information

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

Edited June 3, 2012 by thaicbr

[EvilDrSomkid]

Unfortunately Thailand is hopelessly divided with a useless, less corrupt but less popular political grouping on one side and a useless, more popular but even more corrupt political grouping on the other.

If only there was a middle way.

Yep, that pretty much sums it up. Tragic, isn't it.

And it is in both groups' interest to keep the masses uneducated.

[udonguy]

So we have just had the judgment on TRT. It's been in the news.

30,000 baht was the sum involved. An entire government and party banned for THIS?.

1/ the crime was committed

2/ the sum involved is irrelevant

3/ the party was banned not the government - they were free to reform (which they did) and form another coalition

4/ the rest not worthy of comment

They do this in the US? Any other country? NO. It's ridiculous to ban a whole party on a technicality

[udonguy]

Biased b***it.and I tell you why.PTP are so wedded to the ultimate result of getting their beloved fugitive criminal ex PM back and facing no legal charges.Taking any moral high ground and sitting back will achieve nothing. The Thai people who are not Thaksin lackies need to wake up and see what ir going on

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

There are two very distinct issues here. One is the PTP strategy that you perceive and the other is the conduct of the Democrats. They are quite distinct. The Democrats have made multiple claims to being the party that stands for upholding the law, of the having the moral higher ground etc. If so, they then must behave accordingly. This issue is one of the Democrats having a clear and disciplined position. The party does not have that and it will never have it as long as Abhisit and his team of lightweights are unable to lead and to enforce party discipline.

The Democrats are in a marginalized position and have insufficient electorate support with which to be able to win elected office. The only way they can build the support is to reach outside their voting "block". This cannot be achieved unless the Democrats differentiate themselves. If the Democrats were to establish themselves as the bonafide party of honesty and integrity they would crush their rivals at the polls. Having tantrums in the House, disrespecting the House, not dealing with corruption within the party and other inappropriate behaviours means that the Democrats will continue to sink in the polls playing only to their core supporters.

Thailand needs a political party that is an alternative to the PTP and the Democrats are not that alternative. Neither Abhisit, nor Korn have the depth, the strength , nor the understanding of the country with which to builkd such a party. That is why key backers have been quietly leaving the Democrats. The military is now leaning towards the incumbent government and that speaks volumes. This isn't about the sins and crimes of the PTP, Thaksin or some guy up in Issan. this is all a bout the Democrats falling apart under pressure. There were and are experienced people in the Democrats that are trying to help Abhisit, but he does not appear to listen and is instead relying on his coterie of fluffies.

So please explain how being nice and playing by the rules stops a party with an majority from pushing through what appears to be a self-serving corrupt bill?

You're joking right? They have a majority they WON the election - was it it with you? Are you blind?

[MikeOboe57]

Biased b***it.and I tell you why.PTP are so wedded to the ultimate result of getting their beloved fugitive criminal ex PM back and facing no legal charges.Taking any moral high ground and sitting back will achieve nothing. The Thai people who are not Thaksin lackies need to wake up and see what ir going on

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

There are two very distinct issues here. One is the PTP strategy that you perceive and the other is the conduct of the Democrats. They are quite distinct. The Democrats have made multiple claims to being the party that stands for upholding the law, of the having the moral higher ground etc. If so, they then must behave accordingly. This issue is one of the Democrats having a clear and disciplined position. The party does not have that and it will never have it as long as Abhisit and his team of lightweights are unable to lead and to enforce party discipline.

The Democrats are in a marginalized position and have insufficient electorate support with which to be able to win elected office. The only way they can build the support is to reach outside their voting "block". This cannot be achieved unless the Democrats differentiate themselves. If the Democrats were to establish themselves as the bonafide party of honesty and integrity they would crush their rivals at the polls. Having tantrums in the House, disrespecting the House, not dealing with corruption within the party and other inappropriate behaviours means that the Democrats will continue to sink in the polls playing only to their core supporters.

Thailand needs a political party that is an alternative to the PTP and the Democrats are not that alternative. Neither Abhisit, nor Korn have the depth, the strength , nor the understanding of the country with which to builkd such a party. That is why key backers have been quietly leaving the Democrats. The military is now leaning towards the incumbent government and that speaks volumes. This isn't about the sins and crimes of the PTP, Thaksin or some guy up in Issan. this is all a bout the Democrats falling apart under pressure. There were and are experienced people in the Democrats that are trying to help Abhisit, but he does not appear to listen and is instead relying on his coterie of fluffies.

So please explain how being nice and playing by the rules stops a party with an majority from pushing through what appears to be a self-serving corrupt bill?

You're joking right? They have a majority they WON the election - was it it with you? Are you blind?

Even after winning an election they are still bound to the rules and legal regulations - something that is obviously way too difficult to understand for the PTP and its supporters. That is why they are attacking the Constitution Court, the last democratic stronghold blocking the route to kleptocracy.

[smutcakes]

Even after winning an election they are still bound to the rules and legal regulations - something that is obviously way too difficult to understand for the PTP and its supporters. That is why they are attacking the Constitution Court, the last democratic stronghold blocking the route to kleptocracy.

Is this the same constitutional court whose judges were caught on tape up to no good. I am glad there are people of such noble standing blocking the route to kleptocracy.