Thailand News

[sriracha john]

After that they dragged her out to sea to a boat and used that to tow her further out, where the Reading University student drowned.

First we've heard of this aspect, yes?

[LaoPo]

After that they dragged her out to sea to a boat and used that to tow her further out, where the Reading University student drowned.

First we've heard of this aspect, yes?

Correct, but also the "I'm sinking, I'm sinking" (see Georges post 361) which was heard by the couple who found the mobile-phone, is new to me...

LaoPo

[phuketsiam]

it's all getting stranger and stranger

even the uk's guardian referred to the DNA tests as allegedly .... the other day

its getting to the point where the two fisherman are not on trial but the Thai justice system (oxymoron)

Thasksin should stay out of judicial matters, but he just has to stick his big foot in everywhere doen't he, and usually f***'s things up.

Edited January 13, 2006 by phuketsiam

[sriracha john]

Making this whole "fast-track to the lethal injection" all the more questionable as to it's appropriateness and correctness.

Reminds me of the saying, "dead men tell no tales."

[kat]

After that they dragged her out to sea to a boat and used that to tow her further out, where the Reading University student drowned.

First we've heard of this aspect, yes?

After that they dragged her out to sea to a boat and used that to tow her further out, where the Reading University student drowned.

First we've heard of this aspect, yes?

Correct, but also the "I'm sinking, I'm sinking" (see Georges post 361) which was heard by the couple who found the mobile-phone, is new to me...

LaoPo

Yes. A first for both quotes.

Edited January 13, 2006 by kat

[seonai]

Johpa I think it's obvious that some posters - plus me - think your comments are out of touch. Most fishermen do not take drugs and are lovely family orientated men. Take a look around you to see this.

Seonai

and about the way western women dress etc and the way they often behave..... it is certainly NEVER an excuse for rape..... but it encourages these young Thai men in ways you cannot understand........ they have never seen their women like farangs except in bars where you can buy sex

Seonai

Edited January 13, 2006 by seonai

[Khun Jean]

Johpa I think it's obvious that some posters - plus me - think your comments are out of touch. Most fishermen do not take drugs and are lovely family orientated men. Take a look around you to see this.

Seonai

For someone so in touch you make the same statement only turn it around, which is equally untrue.

It is well known that local people are afraid of the fisherman.

They should not be afraid of MOST of them but as always a FEW will give them a bad image.

If you take a look around, you'll see many spots along the beach where fisherman live. Often it is land just taken by them leaving the owner so afraid they will not even report it. I know cases where the landowner had to pay them a large amount of money to leave the land. Land which they occupied illegally. Threats of killing familymembers if they were to be send away are used. This experience will be told to other people creating a common scare for fisherman.

If these kind of threats are made, there is little that a normal person can do.

It is one of the reasons Thai people are accepting bad behaviour and 'mai pen rai'ing things happening around them. It was(is) a necessity to stay alive and live in "harmony".

There is still a lot of 'jungle' law around. And sometimes it raises its ugly head where you least expect it.

My father in law, now in his seventies, was a tough guy. He had to be with six daughters. It kept their family save. Boredom, alcohol, smoking can change a loving husband and father into an animal. But they would still be afraid of someone stronger than them.

Stories told by my wife and her sisters painted a dark picture about village live. Parts of that "survival of the strongest" are still here.

I am from Amsterdam and in this city there are areas you are not very save when you walk there at night. In these areas MOST people are also lovely family orientated people. They will be asleep at night while the FEW that are 'criminal/dangerous/strange' rule the streets. At those moments ALL the people you will encounter are dangerous.

Does it make Amsterdam a dangerous place to live, no. Are there places to be avoided, yes.

It is better to know than to find out.

[seonai]

Khun Jean,

My point was simple. I see your point also. I live in a place where fishermen are the most important men on the island. So this concept is beyond me.

Seonai

[allexx]

Khun Jean,

My point was simple. I see your point also. I live in a place where fishermen are the most important men on the island. So this concept is beyond me.

Seonai

mai pen rai

[dr_Pat_Pong]

"Mr. Wirat said that the hotel will provide free accommodation and food for the victim’s family members for a week if they want to travel to the island."

That is a kind gesture, but would the family be likely to choose Ko Samui, or even Thailand as their next holiday destination? I doubt it.

There are still a couple of policemen outside New Hut on either side of the road... Not quite sure what they are there for at this late stage.

The two rapists are to be shot sometime in the next month.

They were not from Samui and were horny fishermen that had come to look for sex VCD's and tragically, found Katherine instead.

Execution in Thailand is by lethal injection.

[sriracha john]

Fishermen await fate after lightning trial

· Thai pair could get death sentence next week

· Case concluded 17 days after backpacker's murder

Saturday January 14, 2006

Two Thai fishermen who pleaded guilty to raping and murdering a Welsh backpacker will learn on Wednesday if they are to be executed, after their trial was completed in six hours yesterday.

While the evidence against Bualoi Posit, 23, and Wichai Somkhaoyai, 24, over the January 1 attack on Katherine Horton appears to be watertight, the unprecedented speed of the investigation and trial has raised questions about the impartiality of Thailand's police and judicial authorities.

Murder cases usually take months to conclude in Thailand, but in this instance the interval between the incident and sentencing will be just 17 days. The police pulled out all the stops after prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra warned the publicity of the case was harming the country's reputation and tourism industry.

Bualoi and Wichai were arrested on Monday following the deployment of more than 100 of Thailand's best detectives to the island of Koh Samui, where the 21-year-old Reading University student was attacked while talking to her mother in Cardiff during a late evening walk along Lamai beach.

They were charged on Wednesday, the 156-page police file was given to prosecutors on Thursday, who arranged a special after-hours court hearing that day for pleas to be entered, and the trial was held yesterday.

The prosecution called eight witnesses and the defence none. The defendants, who were barefoot, manacled and in leg chains, were twice offered the chance to give evidence but it was suggested on both occasions that their statements would suffice.

Both times they merely nodded, although considering their education level is almost non-existent it is doubtful they truly understood the situation.

At one point Bualoi was asked by his lawyer, Amarin Nuimai, if he regretted his actions. He replied: "If I could roll the time back I would not have done it," to which Wichai nodded. Unfortunately for them, this was after the judges had left the courtroom. Mr Amarin denied the proceedings had been conducted with undue haste. "We have followed standard procedures," he said.

The evidence against the two defendants includes their confessions and DNA taken from Ms Horton's body. The forensic expert who did the tests, Pattana Kitkailart, told the court yesterday the odds of the defendants' DNA matching that found were six billion to one.

Sunai Phasuk, a representative of Human Rights Watch in Thailand, welcomed the police's "exemplary" work but it also "highlighted the disturbing trend of double standards and the lack of independence of the police and courts.

"When there's political pressure they can take swift action to solve a case quickly," he said.

"But with ordinary cases or when there's no political interest in bringing justice to the victims, like in southern Thailand, usually nothing happens."

He was referring to three mostly Muslim provinces in the otherwise overwhelmingly Buddhist country where dozens of members of the security forces have been accused of crimes while suppressing an insurgency since 2004 but none has been brought to trial.

Somsri Hananuntahuk, the head of Amnesty International in Thailand, said the government must also take some of the blame for Ms Horton's death.

"Cases like this involving fishermen have happened in the past but the victims have been illegal migrants or Burmese, so no one cares.

[Virgil]

good job, it shows what the thai police can do if they get off their asses and put 100% into something.. Its a shame it takes international pressure to make this happen though

What??????????? Are you kidding? The Thai police do as good a job of investigating crime and solving cases as any police force. Most murders in Thailand are solved by police, whether they involve tourists or not. They use DNA testing just like any other police force. In fact, they might use it more ... DNA testing in Thailand is likely to be cheaper than in most western countries.

I'm reminded of a matter in 2004, I think, where two Thai prostitutes were murdered in Darwin, NT, Australia. They were tied up and drowned in a croc infested river. Their bodies were recovered before the crocs got them. It was months before the Australian police pressed charges. There was plenty of international pressure over that one.

I think the Thai police do a pretty good job, especially considering the weather they have to contend with ... every bloody day! I've seen plenty of police in America, UK, Japan, France, Italy ... oh! the Italian Police ... and various countries in Africa, all appearing to be "not-too-busy". But I've also seen police in each of those countries do a fine job. Especially the Thai police.

Congrats to them for catching the bastards who did this. And "poo poo" to police bashing.

===================================================================

Virgil; anyone who actually knows what he/she is talking about (viz. having lived in this Kingdom for a substantial period) will totally agree with you !

It's oh so easy to criticise the Thai Police, but beware, because there's a big difference between "street-cops" and "criminal investigative cops" in this country.

These chaps take their jobs very seriously and are very motivated and highly skilled in the various disciplines of their chosen carreers - ergo; a good many of them have been trained in the US, Canada & OZ.

But hey; don't take it for granted: just try and rob a bank, or something - and see how you go . . . . . . .

My point exactly Jaapfries (this reply is not meant to criticise you, btw). Anyone who understands how policing works will know that your average foot patrol officer is taught three things about murder investigations: 1. Detain everyone at the scene, 2. Dont touch anything, 3. Leave the rest to the specialists. Each police officer is given his position for a reason .... I've lived in Japan, Indonesia, Thailand and Australia and officers are the same in EVERY country. Frankly, on a stinking hot day in Ubon Ratchathani, I can understand why a cop is reluctant to direct traffic during the rich farang S.E. Asian Bicycle Road Race. Pity the poor sod in that charcoal grey uniform.

Regarding unsolved murders in Thailand: Australia averages more than one murder per day, with a population of 20m. How many murders are committed daily in Thailand? To have 2500 unsolved murders is not unrealistic given the size of the population. While certain crimes in Thailand are on the decrease, the fact that Thailand is a thoroughfare for the smuggling of drugs, contraband, prohibited animals and species, as well as people trafficing can't be ignored. These types of crimes lead to an increase in murder rates.

That the police have not completed reports MAY NOT BE unreasonable. I'm reasonably sure that many of the murders involve illegal immigrants - either as victim or purpetrator. Not all, but many. Just look at the issues in the south for example. How many Thai soldiers and police have been murdered down there in the last 2 years? More than one per day on average, if my memory serves me correctly. How many well trained forensic officers does the Thai Police Force have? Not enough, I can assure you.

Virgil

Anyone who has seen these two guys on tv has probably also noticed that they seem very aware of their future.

This case has drawn so much international attention that a life sentence is most likely out of question..

A sad ending story for all of the involved.

I agree Iom. Nobody on this earth has the right to take life - not even as a punishment for murder. I would prefer that the be sent to goal for the rest of their life and be required to write the name of their victim on a piece of paper everyday - so they never forget.

Virgil

We probably don't get to know about it untill now when unfortunately these two smugs decide to rape anybody that comes their way and it happened to be Katherine.

In their statement, according to TV 3, they state that they've been watching pron vdo's or dvd's and than decided to go to land and rape somebody.

<deleted> unreal but I'm almost afraid to know how many times this happens with Thai girls.

My thoughts exactly. We also don't know how many times these beasts have already raped and harmed other innocent people, or possible innocent soi dogs, for that matter.

I agree ... but Kat: innocent thai girls are going to conceal what happened and not report it to the authorities for fear of shaming their family. At least you can tell when the innocent soi dogs have been raped - its the odd way they walk and the excessive attention that they pay to their behinds.

On a serious note: I wouldn't be surprised it this has become a sort of "sub-culture" for visiting fisherman in the area - to arrive at night, commit the act and then piss off in their boats. I'd be surprised if it was the first time for those two guys.

Virgil

[LaoPo]

Fishermen await fate after lightning trial

· Thai pair could get death sentence next week·

Case concluded 17 days after backpacker's murder

Saturday January 14, 2006

Two Thai fishermen who pleaded guilty to raping and murdering a Welsh backpacker will learn on Wednesday if they are to be executed, after their trial was completed in six hours yesterday.

While the evidence against Bualoi Posit, 23, and Wichai Somkhaoyai, 24, over the January 1 attack on Katherine Horton appears to be watertight, the unprecedented speed of the investigation and trial has raised questions about the impartiality of Thailand's police and judicial authorities.

Murder cases usually take months to conclude in Thailand, but in this instance the interval between the incident and sentencing will be just 17 days. The police pulled out all the stops after prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra warned the publicity of the case was harming the country's reputation and tourism industry.

Bualoi and Wichai were arrested on Monday following the deployment of more than 100 of Thailand's best detectives to the island of Koh Samui, where the 21-year-old Reading University student was attacked while talking to her mother in Cardiff during a late evening walk along Lamai beach.

They were charged on Wednesday, the 156-page police file was given to prosecutors on Thursday, who arranged a special after-hours court hearing that day for pleas to be entered, and the trial was held yesterday.

The prosecution called eight witnesses and the defence none. The defendants, who were barefoot, manacled and in leg chains, were twice offered the chance to give evidence but it was suggested on both occasions that their statements would suffice.

Both times they merely nodded, although considering their education level is almost non-existent it is doubtful they truly understood the situation.

At one point Bualoi was asked by his lawyer, Amarin Nuimai, if he regretted his actions. He replied: "If I could roll the time back I would not have done it," to which Wichai nodded. Unfortunately for them, this was after the judges had left the courtroom.

Mr Amarin denied the proceedings had been conducted with undue haste. "We have followed standard procedures," he said.

The evidence against the two defendants includes their confessions and DNA taken from Ms Horton's body. The forensic expert who did the tests, Pattana Kitkailart, told the court yesterday the odds of the defendants' DNA matching that found were six billion to one.

Sunai Phasuk, a representative of Human Rights Watch in Thailand, welcomed the police's "exemplary" work but it also "highlighted the disturbing trend of double standards and the lack of independence of the police and courts.

"When there's political pressure they can take swift action to solve a case quickly," he said.

"But with ordinary cases or when there's no political interest in bringing justice to the victims, like in southern Thailand, usually nothing happens."

He was referring to three mostly Muslim provinces in the otherwise overwhelmingly Buddhist country where dozens of members of the security forces have been accused of crimes while suppressing an insurgency since 2004 but none has been brought to trial.

Somsri Hananuntahuk, the head of Amnesty International in Thailand, said the government must also take some of the blame for Ms Horton's death.

"Cases like this involving fishermen have happened in the past but the victims have been illegal migrants or Burmese, so no one cares.

BJ: what is the source of this article?

Thai Justice...and SO many questions...Hope nobody understand me wrong but Justice HAS to be done...Thailand or everywhere else in the world.

But this leaves so many questions; unfortunately!

WHAT happened to the counter-expertise from the UK/England/Wales..anybody knows?

LaoPo

[Virgil]

Diolch yn fawr i MIB o Cymru

Llugaid am Llugaid

Amen

TRANSLATION

Thank you to the MIB from Wales.

Eye for an eye.

Amen.

Gareth1 !

"An eye for an eye" comes from the Old Testament of the Bible - that part that is shared with the Q'ran. It is the New Testament that separates Christians from Muslims. The New Testament talks of forgiveness. Albeit not without it's consequences.

Virgil

[Virgil]

They now have these two men's DNA profiles and the 'samples' from within the body of the victim. Could anybody tell me if they are matched then that would be conclusive? What I mean is, there is not way that they would be 'made' to match is there? I just didn't like the fact that the PM ordered the police to find the culprits. The police should be doing their utpmost in any case. What would happen if there was no DNA match and the PM had ordered the police to find somebody. A tich up would be very difficult in the UK due to the amount of red tape and proffessional objectivity of those involved but how about Thailand?

DNA testing proticol for criminal investigations is a very thorough process. Governments legislate the process so that it is difficult to question in court. For example, one country that I have lived in ensures that the victim and accused are never at the same address until DNA testing has been completed. Ie: they are interviewed at separate police stations. DNA samples are physically taken from these separate addresses and sent to separate labs. Each lab does not know if it is receiving the sample from the victim or the accused. The results of each sample are sent back to the police who then send these results to an independent expert. Meanwhile, each lab gets the other sample to test and each lab must then report on whether the sample matches the first one or not. The police will have a report from each lab plus the independent report. They must score 3 out of 3.

Not wishing to elaborate too much but, in this particular case, I suspect that the police have been able to get other samples from the victim for testing too - such as pubic hair, skin under fingernails, bite marks on either victim or accused ... I could go on.

In short, it is reasonably safe to say that the Thai police will be making every effort to see that the DNA testing and other forensic evidence is thorough and conclusive. Regrettably, it appears that some of the evidence at the scene was tampered with - such as the note and shoes. As to the confession - remember that statements will have to match the evidence as found. For me, the only question that arises seems to relate to the tides and currents of the area and reports that the body could not have washed up where it did. So, who made that statement and under what authority? Expect a police launch with a dye test in the near future - if it hasn't already been done.

Virgil

Well, I didn't want to spoil everyone's mood about the culprits being found, but the note and shoe thing still don't add up for me. What are the odds that a note left out ends up in a trash bin and her shoes are taken on the night of her murder? Very strange.

But maybe the guy who saw her shoes saw incorrectly, and some early morning cleaning staff removed the note, I dunno.

If these guys are the right guys, I hope they suffer in a miserable hel_l-hole for the rest of their lives.

*edit: If I remember correctly, the guy said first her shoes were gone, and then at 2:30 a.m. or so he saw her shoes outside near the front door. Maybe he was mistaken about the shoes.

Kat,

I don't think the guy ever said that the shoes were inside the bungalow. Please check post #150 in this thread, that's where the quotes originate from.

They now have these two men's DNA profiles and the 'samples' from within the body of the victim. Could anybody tell me if they are matched then that would be conclusive? What I mean is, there is not way that they would be 'made' to match is there? I just didn't like the fact that the PM ordered the police to find the culprits. The police should be doing their utpmost in any case. What would happen if there was no DNA match and the PM had ordered the police to find somebody. A tich up would be very difficult in the UK due to the amount of red tape and proffessional objectivity of those involved but how about Thailand?

Hadrian,

To the best of my knowledge, DNA samples can't be messed around with.

If they fit, they're guilty. AFAIK they not only confessed but also the DNA evidence fits them.

What I don't understand, the police claims that the DNA samples ties both of them to the murder but one guy refuses to plead guilty on the rape charge. That doesn't make sense to me.

Limbos,

The DNA sample might be from skin under nails, bite marks, hair, or blood injested by the victim if she bit the accused. The samples might have come from clothing or other personal belongings. The samples might actually prove that one of the accused did not rape the victim at all.

Virgil

Swimming at night with all those sharks, mariners are not that stupid

You're right. The fishermen knew they were safe ..... sharks sleep at night !!!!!!!!

[Virgil]

I do too, but the way things are coming together it seems pretty strange. Something just "ain't clicking"...

Right Patsycat,

As time goes on you will find more pieces of the jigsaw start to fit into place. I can assure you that investigators are eager to have the story straighened out. The problem is, the fishermen's story of a random drunken event without planning doesn't match the evidence. Let me put this scenario to you:

2 men watch a porno and agree that the WILL find a girl and rape her. They motor the boat closer to shore - in a different position to where it was in the morning. The swim/wade into shore - say 50m, intent on finding a victim. They see a western girl - just like the one in the porno (perhaps) and they grab her. But she's bigger, stronger, more confident than your average Thai girl. She screams, struggles and fights back. 2 guys have never had this happen before (maybe they are in the habit of raping girls from small coastal villages). They panic. They hit the victim until she is unconcious and do what the intended to do (at least one of them does). Now they have a body instead of a shy Thai girl who would normally run away. They don't know what to do about it. They drag it back out into the water. Maybe drag it down the other end of the beach or something or move their boat. I'm only speculating ... but does this better fit the evidence as found?

Virgil

I really hope all the DNA testing has been done correctly as the Horton family needs a accurate resolution and not a bandaid solution.

With all this discussion about DNA I remembered something my friend (who works in forensics) had told me. If a person receives a bone marrow transplant the receiver will then have the donor's DNA in their body as well as their own. Apparently it replicates in the hip/pelvic region..... I am no expert at all (and i know it doesn't relate to this case) but I found the information fascinating....

Yes Lisa,

This is correct. There will also be anti-rejection drugs in the body and/or antibodies attacking the foreign tissue. It is very easy to check for this in a standard blood test.

Virgil

Can they detect the 2 different DNA-samples,from the supects, found within the vagina (if that was the case?)?

I assume they would have been 'mixed' (the 2 suspects-samples).

Also: I never read any answer as to which extent they could have detected 'samples' from the victims' body as she was floating in the (salt)sea for 8-10 hours, if not more...

Do you have an answer to that, or do you know experts who could tell?

LaoPo

Yes, the DNA of the two suspects if they both had penetrated her without condoms, and left traces of sperm, would be detected, I made reference to mixed samples previously....they would detect 3 profiles....hers and the accused mens....and possibly also anyone else she may have slept with in the last 24 hours or so. Not that I am saying that, that happened. The accuseds samples would have been mixed...and also the girls DNA would be mixed in there as well....If the guy who said he didnt rape her is telling the truth then DNA testing would disclude him from being a contributor to the sample. Each persons DNA is unique...you could only get a 100% result if you matched a persons DNA against his own DNA. As DNA is unique then it can be determined from the accuseds samples what probability there is of the accused contributing to the sample from the victim.

The sperm would still be detectable in a body even after floating in the sea water for that long. It would take some very vigorous water action within the vagina to wash it all out, remember that the sperm would be deep in the vagina. Also as the body swells the orifices would close up trapping the semen inside and away from any washing action. A DNA profile can be created from a single cell so a large sample is not required...for instance if you pick up a book and put it down again your profile can be picked up from that....sweat, dead skin cells etc...

gburns57au,

I'm glad someone else here knows a little about DNA testing.

Virg'

yeah the one day trial is joke, how long did it take that policeman in kanchanaburi to be dealt with, i remeber the case was ajourned for 6 weeks for no real reason,and the whole time the guy was out on bail, why does anyone think this is restoring Thailands reputation, its not, its making it worse, so so sad, for everyone really

He pleaded not guilty so it had to be investigated and then put to trial....these guys have pleaded guilty.....no trial as such is required....they go to court, enter a plea and be dealt with...how long do you think that will take....????

A trial will still proceed in order to establish the facts for the record, including motive, premeditation, etc. A trial will still proceed to establish that the confession is real. Rules of evidence still apply. The confession is but one piece of evidence.

[Wes Turner]

but it encourages these young Thai men in ways you cannot understand........ they have never seen their women like farangs except in bars where you can buy sex...

...And beat them up and kill them?

No excuse can be made, we decided many hundreds of years ago that we, as human animals, would have law and order for reasons of self preservation.

As a Darwinian I could argue that rape is as natural as murder, eating or going to the toilet - which it is, but that's beside the point.

[kat]

My point exactly Jaapfries (this reply is not meant to criticise you, btw). Anyone who understands how policing works will know that your average foot patrol officer is taught three things about murder investigations: 1. Detain everyone at the scene, 2. Dont touch anything, 3. Leave the rest to the specialists. Each police officer is given his position for a reason .... I've lived in Japan, Indonesia, Thailand and Australia and officers are the same in EVERY country. Frankly, on a stinking hot day in Ubon Ratchathani, I can understand why a cop is reluctant to direct traffic during the rich farang S.E. Asian Bicycle Road Race. Pity the poor sod in that charcoal grey uniform.

Regarding unsolved murders in Thailand: Australia averages more than one murder per day, with a population of 20m. How many murders are committed daily in Thailand? To have 2500 unsolved murders is not unrealistic given the size of the population. While certain crimes in Thailand are on the decrease, the fact that Thailand is a thoroughfare for the smuggling of drugs, contraband, prohibited animals and species, as well as people trafficing can't be ignored. These types of crimes lead to an increase in murder rates.

That the police have not completed reports MAY NOT BE unreasonable. I'm reasonably sure that many of the murders involve illegal immigrants - either as victim or purpetrator. Not all, but many. Just look at the issues in the south for example. How many Thai soldiers and police have been murdered down there in the last 2 years? More than one per day on average, if my memory serves me correctly. How many well trained forensic officers does the Thai Police Force have? Not enough, I can assure you.

Virgil

Anyone who has seen these two guys on tv has probably also noticed that they seem very aware of their future.

This case has drawn so much international attention that a life sentence is most likely out of question..

A sad ending story for all of the involved.

I agree Iom. Nobody on this earth has the right to take life - not even as a punishment for murder. I would prefer that the be sent to goal for the rest of their life and be required to write the name of their victim on a piece of paper everyday - so they never forget.

Virgil

We probably don't get to know about it untill now when unfortunately these two smugs decide to rape anybody that comes their way and it happened to be Katherine.

In their statement, according to TV 3, they state that they've been watching pron vdo's or dvd's and than decided to go to land and rape somebody.

<deleted> unreal but I'm almost afraid to know how many times this happens with Thai girls.

My thoughts exactly. We also don't know how many times these beasts have already raped and harmed other innocent people, or possible innocent soi dogs, for that matter.

I agree ... but Kat: innocent thai girls are going to conceal what happened and not report it to the authorities for fear of shaming their family. At least you can tell when the innocent soi dogs have been raped - its the odd way they walk and the excessive attention that they pay to their behinds.

On a serious note: I wouldn't be surprised it this has become a sort of "sub-culture" for visiting fisherman in the area - to arrive at night, commit the act and then piss off in their boats. I'd be surprised if it was the first time for those two guys.

Virgil

Virgil, your comment above about underreporting is correct. It is commond knowledge here that has been substantiated by both local and foreign reports. There is also a lack of documentation and correct standardized data from which unassailable statistics and comparisons can be gleaned. However, in spite of this, there have been reliable research on the much higher incidence of sexual abuse and assault.

You miss one very important point in your comparison of the homicide reports, and that is the lack of standardized and reliable reporting and documentation mechanisms. Pattaya seems to be one area that has a very high number of sucides that miraculously kill themselves with their hands tied behind their backs.

[nonthaburial]

The world media are full of the trial of the two scumbags who supposedly murdered the Welsh lady on Samui. Thaksin has intervened saying that justice must be done urgently to help heal the negative impact on Thai tourism(noteThai tourism not to comfort the girls parents etc)

After this public statement, Batman and Robin went into overdrive and within days had the two in custody who pleaded no contest. World records were broken as the trial was ordered immediately and judging by reports, no defence witnesses were called and again judging be reports the two are likely to be sentenced and could face the death penalty by the middle of next week!

Hurrah for the Thai justice system (at long long last) but why do I smell a rat and wonder if these two guys are being stiched up in public to entice the tourists back. Why did it need Thaksin to get involved to kickstart Batman and Robin ? Are we sure these guys have not been framed to get a quick completion? are we sure that everything is above board here ?

Food for thought!

;

[simon43]

Don't be silly. This is Thai justice at it's finest!!!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Tell the Muslim's

[Lilyflower]

but it encourages these young Thai men in ways you cannot understand........ they have never seen their women like farangs except in bars where you can buy sex...

...And beat them up and kill them?

No excuse can be made, we decided many hundreds of years ago that we, as human animals, would have law and order for reasons of self preservation.

As a Darwinian I could argue that rape is as natural as murder, eating or going to the toilet - which it is, but that's beside the point.

just for the sake of 'balance' Wes...

here are the words seonai posted immediately before the bit you quoted...

and about the way western women dress etc and the way they often behave..... it is certainly NEVER an excuse for rape.....

the one thing everyone on this thread seems to agree on is that there is no excuse for those who did this. i think that was seonai's point also.

on a separate subject (maybe one for somewhere away from this thread...???) i didn't realise that darwinians thought that rape/murder are as natural as eating, etc. that's also a biblical principle... interesting thought!

[leftcross]

I say hang them first and then ask questions later.

If they have got the wrong pair ... there are plenty more fishermen in the sea

[Maestro]

Hurrah for the Thai justice system (at long long last) but why do I smell a rat and wonder if these two guys are being stiched up in public to entice the tourists back.

See also the articles in the Guardian and The Sun.

There does seem to be clear DNA evidence, in addition to the confession. Why waste money on a lengthy trial and incarceration?

-----------------

Maestro

[gburns57au]

After this public statement, Batman and Robin went into overdrive and within days had the two in custody who pleaded no contest. World records were broken as the trial was ordered immediately and judging by reports, no defence witnesses were called and again judging be reports the two are likely to be sentenced and could face the death penalty by the middle of next week!

Why would you call defence witnesses when there is no defence being offered..??

On a plea of guilty there is no trial needed...just a hearing to present the state case, take the pleas and arrange a date for sentencing.

The use of the word "trial" in the Thai reports should not be taken in the same context as we would normally use it.

Edited January 14, 2006 by gburns57au

[steve w]

After this public statement, Batman and Robin went into overdrive and within days had the two in custody who pleaded no contest. World records were broken as the trial was ordered immediately and judging by reports, no defence witnesses were called and again judging be reports the two are likely to be sentenced and could face the death penalty by the middle of next week!

Why would you call defence witnesses when there is no defence being offered..??

On a plea of guilty there is no trial needed...just a hearing to present the state case, take the pleas and arrange a date for sentencing.

The use of the word "trial" in the Thai reports should not be taken in the same context as we would normally use it.

they don,t call it trial but pre-sentancing then sentencing(gonna be on wednesday)

[stumonster]

what has struck me about the 'DNA' evidence was it was originally taking 5 days to produce a result to clear the locals and tourists whho had to submit a sample - then with these fishermen it seemed to be less than 24 hours turnaround.

[sriracha john]

Is it possible to meld this thread into:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55993

Things can get quite muddled with 2 or 3 threads on the same topic.

[gburns57au]

I'm glad someone else here knows a little about DNA testing.

Virg'

Many hours spent in court listening to and seeing DNA reports presented by the people that actually make the reports and also some that actually do the testing.

[george]

Got drunk, watched porn, swam to shore

Raped a 'farang'

Click for image:

(WARNING! Picture is strong) http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/rr.jpg

SURAT THANI: --Two Thai fishermen accused of raping and murdering British student Katherine Horton made this claim to fellow crewmates: She was 'delicious'.

The two had been on board a fishing trawler that had anchored off the Thai island resort of Koh Samui.

They got drunk while watching a porn movie and then decided to swim to shore and rape the first foreign tourist they saw, the police said.

That was when Welsh student Horton, 21, had just stepped away from her beach hut to get better reception for her handphone while speaking to her mother back home.

In Wales, Mrs Elizabeth Horton heard a bloodcurdling scream from her daughter, then silence.

As she frantically called anyone she could think of in a desperate bid to get help for her daughter on the other side of the world, the young woman was being beaten and raped.

The two drunk men then dragged her into the sea and swam back to their trawler to boast to crewmates about their deed.

'Delicious, very delicious,' shouted Bualoi Posit, 23, and Wichai Somkhaoyai, 24, as they climbed back on board, according to the British newspaper, The Telegraph.

They bragged to the three other crewmen that 'they had just raped a foreigner' until an appalled deckhand told them to shut up, Thai police spokesman Lieutenant General Ajiravid Subarnbhesaj told the paper.

CREWMEN'S TESTIMONY

Testifying in the murder trial yesterday, crewman Sama Ae said: 'Wichai came aboard at about midnight and told me he'd raped and killed a 'farang' (foreigner) girl. Both he and Bualoi were shouting 'Roi, Roi',' reported Scotland's Evening News.

Roi is the southern Thai word for delicious and is usually used to describe food.

Mr Sama told the court he had said to Wichai that his business was his own and that Mr Sama did not want trouble. He also saw a bruise and swelling on Bualoi's forehead.

His testimony was followed by that of another crew member, 51-year-old Somporn Sangthong, who looked after the boat's engine.

Mr Somporn told the court most of the crew had been drinking whisky on the evening of New Year's Day after selling their catch to another boat. At around 7pm they finished their drink and began watching a pornographic movie.

He said: 'Wichai and Bualoi left the boat and I watched a war movie with the remaining crew member. I went down to the engine room at around 11pm and saw Bualoi climbing back onto the boat with an empty plastic oil canister. We use them to help us swim to shore.

'Bualoi had a shower, changed his clothes and came out shouting roi, roi, roi. I asked him what he'd been doing and he just told me he'd been having a fantastic time. I saw a large bruise on Bualoi's forehead and scratches on his back.'

As soon as Ms Horton's body was found, around 10am the next day, the police focused their investigation on the seven fishing boats anchored near where she had been attacked, reported the Daily Mail.

Click to see larger image

FISHING BOATS INVESTIGATED

Crews on six vessels willingly agreed to be interviewed and provide hair and saliva samples for DNA comparison.

The seventh vessel, the suspects' trawler, was already an hour away and its crew refused to return to port.

Thai authorities sent speedboats out to accost the vessel and arrested Wichai and Bualoi after speaking to all the crew members.

The pair were flown to Bangkok for forensic tests. Their DNA samples matched those recovered from Ms Horton's body, Thai police told the British media.

The two fishermen confessed to the crime after six hours of interrogation, the police said.

Neither is from Koh Samui.

Their boat is based in Sichol, some 225km away. It had dropped anchor off Koh Samui on New Year's eve, the day Ms Horton and her classmate Ruth Adams arrived on the island.

RESIDENTS' ANGER

The crime has sparked considerable anger in Koh Samui and not just among foreign tourists.

When the suspects were taken back to the island to 'walk' the police through their alleged crime, they were attacked by angry locals who are furious at the impact they fear the worldwide publicity would have on tourism, the source of their livelihood.

Major Gen Aswin Kwanmuang, deputy head of Thailand's central investigation bureau, gave this account of the attack to The Telegraph.

Wichai and Bualoi had been drinking heavily and watching pornographic DVDs on New Year's Day when one of them announced: 'I want to rape someone.'

They swam to shore in the middle of the night using empty petrol cans as floats.

'When they saw Katherine, they talked to each other and said, 'This woman is beautiful',' Major Gen Aswin said.

'At that time, she was on the phone.'

Bualoi grabbed Ms Horton from behind while Wichai hit her on the head with a beach umbrella pole, knocking her unconscious.

HANDPHONE DROPPED

They did not realise that her handphone had fallen in the sand, with the call to her mother still connected.

'They dragged her by the neck about 30m down the beach (to a secluded area),' Major Gen Aswin said.

'Then she was raped.'

Miss Horton was beaten again until the duo thought she was dead and thrown into the sea, Major Gen Aswin added.

The men then swam back to their trawler to brag about their deed.

Ms Horton's body washed up on shore about 3km from where she was attacked.

The court heard that British tourist Christopher Burrows, who along with his wife had found Ms Horton's handphone on the beach, heard a faint voice calling out in English: 'I'm sinking, I'm sinking.'

Ms Horton had arrived at the Lamai Beach resort the day before with Ms Adams. They were midway through a two-week backpacking jaunt around Thailand and were scheduled to return home to complete the final year of their psychology degrees at Reading University.

The case was moved from Koh Samui to Surat Thani because the police feared local anger could lead to unrest, reported The Guardian.

In a one-day trial yesterday, Bualoi and Wichai pleaded guilty to murder and rape, which can carry the death sentence by lethal injection.

VERDICT NEXT WEEK

The court will deliver a verdict on Wednesday. Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has called for the most severe penalty for the two.

'They deserve the most severe penalty because they have done huge damage to the country,' he said.

Hi-tech trail led to killers

THE murder would most likely have remained unsolved if the police had not discovered a hi-tech trail that led to her alleged killers, reported The Nation newspaper in Thailand.

With no witnesses to the crime, Ms Katherine Horton's handphone provided the first lead.

It was found by the Burrows, a couple who were on a late-night stroll along the beach and handed in to a nearby bar before she was reported missing.

The last call listed on the phone was made at 21.30 on 1 Jan. When the police called the number, Ms Horton's mother told them how the call had ended with a piercing scream.

Her service operator in Britain was able to tell which direction Ms Horton was moving in during that 10-minute call by tracking which network pole had first registered the call and which one had picked it up when it ended.

A police re-enactment led them to the spot where the handphone had been found.

And where Ms Horton was attacked by her two alleged rapists.

GOOGLE HELP

The police then used Google Earth to confirm the spot by comparing it with the phone signal records.

They were able to narrow their investigation to the fishing boats anchored within swimming distance of that spot.

Ms Horton's body had been washed by ocean currents about 3km down the beach and was found about 10 hours after the attack.

-- asia1.com.sg 2006-01-15