Few Qualms Over Corruption: Thai Poll

[LuckyLew]

Sad state when people accept corruption from their leaders

Either they have never known anything different and that just

assume it is ok or maybe they want to work for the gov;t and

get in on the gravy train

sad sad sad

[swillowbee]

If one takes this survey and article seriously, it paints a very bleak picture of a failed state. Is Thailand a failed state or just working up to it rapidly?

.

As they say, "Good apples do not come from bad barrels."

And the 68% of the surveyed Thais who now practice and endorse corruption both: (i) vote, and (ii) they breed.

As a barrel of apples, Thailand is far beyond the 51% tipping point. Corruption has become a Thai cultural value. Can there be any doubt about the continuing spead of social decay? ... seems a mathematical certainty ... sad to think about it this way, but view this as Thailand's high water mark.

Edited June 11, 2012 by swillowbee

[jonclark]

I find the overt corruption more refreshing and "honest" than the more covert and sophisticated corruption that exists in developed countries like the USA and Great Britain. When westerners point the finger at Thailand, I find it quite amusing. Either they are blind to the widespread corruption in their own political systems, or they are in complete denial. At least I have access in Thailand because I am just as able to slip an official a couple of thousand baht as much as the next guy. In the USA, I am not allowed access.

Thank you. I quite agree. Unfortunately, it doesn't make it helpful for most people in either country.

Corruption in western countries is slightly more discreet and works at higher levels - such as lobbying groups etc.

In Thailand it exists at all levels of society and is endemic. Try giving a UK or US policeman $50 after they have pulled you over for speeding, DUI or possession and see if you get the same response from the policeman as you would a policeman in Thailand. If you are confident that the western police officer would give the same response to your bribe as the Thai police officer, then I challenge you to go to the states or the UK commit a crime and see if your bribe is accepted by the attending officer(s) and you walk away from the crime without being arrested.

And I am fairly sure once the media get hold of any corruption allegations against a politician or policeman, for example, they would publicly name and shame and hound that person (rightly or wrongly) until they get to the truth, as it is deemed in the public's interest to not have corrupt government officials. In Thailand the most we see is the cryptic 'a politician whose name starts with Q has received money .....' in the newspaper and then the story disappears.

So whilst I agree that corruption exist in both societies there are subtle but significant differences in how it is handled and perceived by the two societies.

But then a guilty and convicted corrupt policeman/woman in the US or the UK would lose his/her job AND a very lucrative pension

And therein lies the major difference between the two societies

[Pseudolus]

It's funny. I was watching a program last night on the D-Day landings with a load of old timers talking about the horrific stuff they went through. Then another one on Prince Philip where someone said "if you want to understand a man, think about what was happening in his world in his early 20's".

Aside from my usual comment about lack of positive male role models for Thai males (what have they got, korean wannabee boy bands, and corrupt officials with the morals of a pitt bull terrier in a bad mood) they also lack a history where the country has endured horrific events (self caused or not) and come through the other side through strength of Character. The whole country is like a teenage girl stamping her feet screaming to her daddy that she wants things her way or not at all. Immature, myopic, and believe that just because thescum of the world come here to shag their hookers that they are the premier country in Asia.

People on here keep posting that pic from Singapore with the pool on top of the sands building and asking where in Bangkok it is. Answer? something like that will never be in Bangkok because the extortion money would preclude it in planning, the builders and architects would never be paid; the contracts would be given to local mates then who would make a mess of it so even if it did get erected it would fall apart in a minute whilst all along the line all the HiSo fools make bundles of money.

Dreamers; the lot of them. Living in their shacks with their extended families not realising that the access to corrupt money they so dearly aspire to is the very reason their life for ever and generations after them will be in that same shack earning bread line money.

[gand]

Thais embrace their Kleptocracy "rule by thieves"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy

[JohnAllan]

"On a road to nowhere with self-serving MPs." "Politics is the ruin of our school system."

What irony that the subject matter of those two headlines on TV, preceded the corruption poll results, since it is corruption, underwritten by the kind of complacency the poll reflects, that begets the others.

[shanahan]

Larger countries just hide their corruption better. Look at Ben Bernanke, chairman of the U.S. Federal Reserve - he "lost" almost $600 million and has not been brought to task. I've been following this one closely, and it appears that it will be swept under the rug. And this is just one case of just about every U.S. politician, each of which should be hanging their head in shame.

The culture of the corruption in Thailand is the main difference to the legal corruption that takes place in the west. Some people from the west show shock and disbelief at the boldness and scale of the corruption in Thailand, but fail to notice just how bad it is in the west too. Refer to the above quote for example.

[silent]

How can you educate Thais on corruption? Most will admit it's here and it happens. Try to explain why it's completely rotten and backwards and most stick their fingers in their ears and start singing 'la la la la'.

Lalalala. The difference between here and there then seems to be the level of sophistication that the wool's pulled over the eyes by the sound of things, and of course the expense to taxpayers for the inquiry.

At least here they're honest to themselves about corruption being a fact of life that nothing can really be done about.

[rkidlad]

How can you educate Thais on corruption? Most will admit it's here and it happens. Try to explain why it's completely rotten and backwards and most stick their fingers in their ears and start singing 'la la la la'.

Lalalala. The difference between here and there then seems to be the level of sophistication that the wool's pulled over the eyes by the sound of things, and of course the expense to taxpayers for the inquiry.

At least here they're honest to themselves about corruption being a fact of life that nothing can really be done about.

As long as people believe nothing can be done about it, is as long as there will be corruption. Here or there.

[steenasger]

Corruption everywhere in Thailand = lack of resources for the development of the country.

[silent]

How can you educate Thais on corruption? Most will admit it's here and it happens. Try to explain why it's completely rotten and backwards and most stick their fingers in their ears and start singing 'la la la la'.

Lalalala. The difference between here and there then seems to be the level of sophistication that the wool's pulled over the eyes by the sound of things, and of course the expense to taxpayers for the inquiry.

At least here they're honest to themselves about corruption being a fact of life that nothing can really be done about.

As long as people believe nothing can be done about it, is as long as there will be corruption. Here or there.

Coodles. I agree but I guess after most of this life agin it, heroics and rose coloured prescriptions was giving me alsheimers.

[apetley]

I find the overt corruption more refreshing and "honest" than the more covert and sophisticated corruption that exists in developed countries like the USA and Great Britain. When westerners point the finger at Thailand, I find it quite amusing. Either they are blind to the widespread corruption in their own political systems, or they are in complete denial. At least I have access in Thailand because I am just as able to slip an official a couple of thousand baht as much as the next guy. In the USA, I am not allowed access.

Exactly what sort of access are you referring to?

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Pseudolus]

I find the overt corruption more refreshing and "honest" than the more covert and sophisticated corruption that exists in developed countries like the USA and Great Britain. When westerners point the finger at Thailand, I find it quite amusing. Either they are blind to the widespread corruption in their own political systems, or they are in complete denial. At least I have access in Thailand because I am just as able to slip an official a couple of thousand baht as much as the next guy. In the USA, I am not allowed access.

So you are quite OK for a terrorist to slip a security guard in a airport a few dollars to let him through and sit on a plane next to your family? Is that ok? It could easily happen here. Easily. How about some rich guy in the US runs his car into your family as they are crossing the street, and then buys his way out of it. Is that ok as well? How about the building in the US where your folks live is erected on a flood plane and poorly built which crumbles and kills them just because the a politicians unemployable son thought he could make money from it, and then not be accountable. Is that ok? I think you would be straight onto your lawyers even reading this, let alone if it actually happened.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Pseudolus

[Woodcaulk]

Larger countries just hide their corruption better. Look at Ben Bernanke, chairman of the U.S. Federal Reserve - he "lost" almost $600 million and has not been brought to task. I've been following this one closely, and it appears that it will be swept under the rug. And this is just one case of just about every U.S. politician, each of which should be hanging their head in shame.

Spot on. Add Barney Frank and Chris Dodd whose damage cannot even be measured....I see no point in hanging their heads in shame, ...they should be hanging from their necks at the end of a stout rope. I would so enjoy seeing their feet kicking right before they shit themselves and go still forever.

[Johpa]

Corruption everywhere in Thailand = lack of resources for the development of the country.

The lack of resources results more from profits being extracted and then re-invested out of the country. But yes, corruption also deprives the government of capital to properly develop infrastructure. However, I have come to believe that in the imagined "free market" where the invisible hand is allowed to wank away, corruptioin is inevitable. Just look at the US banking industry. Now that is real corruption.

By the way, a nearly identical poll was conducted by a Thai university a generation ago and the results are unchanged.

Chaiyo!

[EyesWideOpen]

This poll does not speak well of the analytical powers of this group of twenty somethings. A person needs to step back and look at the actual net effect of corruption on a macro scale. It is simple. It is the large scale movement of capital from the underclass to the upper class. Thus keeping the underclass in a permanent state of poverty and poor education, and keeping the upper class in new Mercedes cars and surrounded by mia nois. The fact the underclass here accepts this situation, and more bizarrely covets it, is a tribute to the propaganda propagated by the upper class.

Edited June 11, 2012 by EyesWideOpen

[gand]

Corruptitalism, portends a sad future for humanity.

[Jingthing]

Youth is normally the age of more idealistic values. In other words you'd expect acceptance of corruption to INCREASE with age and in a healthy society you'd expect low tolerance among youth. That the majority of Thai youth are OK with it is not at all surprising considering the political history of Thailand, but still depressing.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Jingthing

[waza]

It's funny. I was watching a program last night on the D-Day landings with a load of old timers talking about the horrific stuff they went through. Then another one on Prince Philip where someone said "if you want to understand a man, think about what was happening in his world in his early 20's".

Aside from my usual comment about lack of positive male role models for Thai males (what have they got, korean wannabee boy bands, and corrupt officials with the morals of a pitt bull terrier in a bad mood) they also lack a history where the country has endured horrific events (self caused or not) and come through the other side through strength of Character. The whole country is like a teenage girl stamping her feet screaming to her daddy that she wants things her way or not at all. Immature, myopic, and believe that just because thescum of the world come here to shag their hookers that they are the premier country in Asia.

People on here keep posting that pic from Singapore with the pool on top of the sands building and asking where in Bangkok it is. Answer? something like that will never be in Bangkok because the extortion money would preclude it in planning, the builders and architects would never be paid; the contracts would be given to local mates then who would make a mess of it so even if it did get erected it would fall apart in a minute whilst all along the line all the HiSo fools make bundles of money.

Dreamers; the lot of them. Living in their shacks with their extended families not realising that the access to corrupt money they so dearly aspire to is the very reason their life for ever and generations after them will be in that same shack earning bread line money.

Dont forget that for half the lives of those polled Thaksin has been the dominant political role model and over the last 6 years they have been constantly exposed to violent protests, complete civil disobedience and a polarised society where even student from differing schools violently attack and kill each other with little repercussions. The reality is the amnesty bill re-inforces the notion that bad behaviour is OK and never punished or easily forgiven.

Edited June 11, 2012 by waza

[surangw]

I think many would be more suspicious of an official not asking for tea money than one that does.

( ulterior motives)

[AleG]

Youth is normally the age of more idealistic values. In other words you'd expect acceptance of corruption to INCREASE with age and in a healthy society you'd expect low tolerance among youth. That the majority of Thai youth are OK with it is not at all surprising considering the political history of Thailand, but still depressing.

My same thoughts, I'm afraid acceptance and collusion in corruption is probably higher in older groups.

[seminomadic]

It's funny. I was watching a program last night on the D-Day landings with a load of old timers talking about the horrific stuff they went through. Then another one on Prince Philip where someone said "if you want to understand a man, think about what was happening in his world in his early 20's".

Aside from my usual comment about lack of positive male role models for Thai males (what have they got, korean wannabee boy bands, and corrupt officials with the morals of a pitt bull terrier in a bad mood) they also lack a history where the country has endured horrific events (self caused or not) and come through the other side through strength of Character. The whole country is like a teenage girl stamping her feet screaming to her daddy that she wants things her way or not at all. Immature, myopic, and believe that just because thescum of the world come here to shag their hookers that they are the premier country in Asia.

People on here keep posting that pic from Singapore with the pool on top of the sands building and asking where in Bangkok it is. Answer? something like that will never be in Bangkok because the extortion money would preclude it in planning, the builders and architects would never be paid; the contracts would be given to local mates then who would make a mess of it so even if it did get erected it would fall apart in a minute whilst all along the line all the HiSo fools make bundles of money.

Dreamers; the lot of them. Living in their shacks with their extended families not realising that the access to corrupt money they so dearly aspire to is the very reason their life for ever and generations after them will be in that same shack earning bread line money.

Quoted because it was so off-the-chain-awesome it bears repeating.

When a relatively large percentage of your GDP comes from tourism and your people rely on cheating foreigners to the extent they do, the young female metaphor couldn't be more appropriate.... a dumb dizzy broad who just smiles real nice but does basic arithmetic with her fingers and toes. Thailand's already lost. I'm here for travel and fun and don't kid myself that this is a country with a bright future.

[Huayrat]

And this is why they will always be a 3rd world country.... no surprises here move along

[osiboy]

how contradictory ,........to think they can live in a more just society and accept corruption ???

[seminomadic]

An extension of my thinking from my previous post's line of thought, I'm compelled to quote a contemporary English artist vis-a-vis this matter:

"NOOOOOOOO FYOOOO-CHAH

NOOOOOOOO FYOOOO-CHAH

NOOOOOOOO FYOOOO-CHAH FOR YOUUUUUUUUU....."

[seminomadic]

God save the queen

The fascist regime

They made you a moron

Potential H-bomb

God save the queen

She ain't no human being

There is no future

In England's dreaming

Don't be told what you want

Don't be told what you need

There's no future, no future,

No future for you

God save the queen

We mean it man

We love our queen

God saves

God save the queen

'Cause tourists are money

And our figurehead

Is not what she seems

Oh God save history

God save your mad parade

Oh Lord God have mercy

All crimes are paid

When there's no future

How can there be sin

We're the flowers in the dustbin

We're the poison in your human machine

We're the future, your future

God save the queen

We mean it man

We love our queen

God saves

God save the queen

We mean it man

And there is no future

In England's dreaming

No future, no future,

No future for you

No future, no future,

No future for me

Good lyrics, like poetry, stand the test of time, y'know?

[dionys]

"Behind every great fortune there is a great crime." Balzac(?)

"It is not unusual for people to want to be financially better off, and there are 3 methods - good fortune, hard work and criminality.

Hence lotteries are popular despite appalling odds, and filthy rich criminals are admired because where are the publicly lauded role models who earned their money through entrepreneurship, skill and dedication?"

A hard work? Would you be so kind and name one?

[MB1]

Just pathetic...monkey see, monkey do!....They see the corrupt driving around in the mercedes and bmw's and just want they're "piece of the pie" someday...why are we surprised by this. Wanna be Thaksins.....sick

Thai's probably include corruption as part of the Thai School curriculum, that said tongue in cheek.

Corruption in Thailand I see as a problem that just aint going to go away it's from the top all the way down to bottom and just IMO a part of Thai life.

[gand]

Ordinarily transparency would defeat corruption, but since it is celebrated here, I doubt transparency would work.

http://www.transparency.org/

THE GLOBAL CALL CONTINUES: HOW ARE YOU FIGHTING CORRUPTION?

http://www.transparency.org/news/feature/a_global_call_how_are_you_fighting_corruption

[xthAi76s]

Larger countries just hide their corruption better. Look at Ben Bernanke, chairman of the U.S. Federal Reserve - he "lost" almost $600 million and has not been brought to task. I've been following this one closely, and it appears that it will be swept under the rug. And this is just one case of just about every U.S. politician, each of which should be hanging their head in shame.

The culture of the corruption in Thailand is the main difference to the legal corruption that takes place in the west. Some people from the west show shock and disbelief at the boldness and scale of the corruption in Thailand, but fail to notice just how bad it is in the west too. Refer to the above quote for example.

The quote has been referred to like it's some scholarly written article in a peer-reviewed journal or something. LOL

This is such a tired argument, and it's one that is indicative of a very juvenile thought process. People point to examples of criminals, and then use such examples to argue that "see, it happens everywhere". Of course, the argument is NEVER that it does not happen everywhere. The difference here, for example, is discussing the differences in attitudes towards the practice.

A few differences between Thailand and the US:

1. You would NEVER find a poll of people in the US who think & admit corruption is OK as long as they benefit. Strikingly, neither very poor people nor the very rich or anyone in-between would accept, conceptually, corruption in any significant numbers. We are taught to think that it is fundamentally wrong and while it may benefit a few, it would likely do more harm than good.

2. Borne out of our education and belief that corruption is wrong, once uncovered, evidences or suspicions of corruption are brought into the public domain (by a truly free media -- which does NOT exist in Thailand, btw) for all to criticize and deride (because Americans have free speech -- which Thais do NOT have really, at all) and for the legal authorities to correct through a robust legal process that is not perfect but cares to try to be (which Thailand does NOT have really, at all).

3. When the law in the US is found to have a flaw that allows for systematic abuse, it is taken to task to be changed. It sometimes takes much time, but it generally gets done by a legal body which is largely (not wholly) honest and not easily manipulated by other interests. Can the same be said for Thailand? Of course not. In Thailand, the laws are changed with every new government, often not based on sound legal principles to protect rights, but more often manipulated in an amateur manner to benefit a few people.

Please stop comparing Thai corruption (or that of most any 3rd world country) to more selective, governed and often corrected abuses in developed countries like the US.

Edited June 12, 2012 by xthAi76s