Scottish Football...The Dereliction Thread.

[johnh101]

Too many foreign players and no long term strategy in place. Hibs had a cracking youth program going 10-15 years ago but saw their upcoming stars poached by the Glasgow clubs continually.

Its a sad state of affairs all right.

, Saw this today

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18520776

wonder whether this will improve the club long term

My Connection was poor so couldn't listen to either interviews.

I feel sorry for Willie Miller, but I have heard alot of "<deleted> does he do anyway" recently from folks back home.

Stuart Milne, the Chairman and swinger of the Miller axe, in my opinion, is the one who needs to GTF out of the club.

He's one of the richest men in Scotland but hardly even throws his spare change into Aberdeen.

[smokie36]

36-0 John....

[johnh101]

36-0 John....

Aye, but what folks forget is that Bon Accord FC were actually Orion Cricket Club.

Aberdeen F.C. was formed following the merger of three city clubs, Aberdeen, Victoria United and Orion Football Club, in 1903. (Wiki)

Therefore the actual history is that Arbroath beat an Aberdeen cricket club 36-0, not Aberdeen Football Club.

[smokie36]

36-0 John....

Aye, but what folks forget is that Bon Accord FC were actually Orion Cricket Club.

Aberdeen F.C. was formed following the merger of three city clubs, Aberdeen, Victoria United and Orion Football Club, in 1903. (Wiki)

Therefore the actual history is that Arbroath beat an Aberdeen cricket club 36-0, not Aberdeen Football Club.

You think I've not heard that excuse before?

I remember our "crew" heading up there once...musta been about 15 at the time....clueless we were....your lot just laughed at us...barstewards that yis are...anyway...my one and only brush with the ned lifestyle I'm happy to admit!

[ScotsExpat]

36-0 John....

Aye, but what folks forget is that Bon Accord FC were actually Orion Cricket Club.

Aberdeen F.C. was formed following the merger of three city clubs, Aberdeen, Victoria United and Orion Football Club, in 1903. (Wiki)

Therefore the actual history is that Arbroath beat an Aberdeen cricket club 36-0, not Aberdeen Football Club.

You think I've not heard that excuse before?

I remember our "crew" heading up there once...musta been about 15 at the time....clueless we were....your lot just laughed at us...barstewards that yis are...anyway...my one and only brush with the ned lifestyle I'm happy to admit!

Didnae ken that Arbroath had a 'crew'. Thought the ned element from Arbroath ended up at Tannadice every other weekend..

Stand Free ASC.....

[smokie36]

Not much of one...home and away solidly for a couple of years....Stenhousemuir and Berwick were good runs....but I widnae fancy Peterhead!

[mrbojangles]

This is just conjecture, but a point was made that if you went back 20 years (pre-premiership) all good first division English teams had a Scot or two in their side. It is true.

So has the Premier League had an adverse effect on the quality of Scottish players? It is often said that it has affected the depth of English talent.

Not enough young players are getting regular top flight games (both English and Scots), and are thus restricted to playing in lower leagues, be that the SPL or football league.

Just a thought.

It begs the question Why?....its not as if there is a shortage of young players.....is it desire...coaching...cheaper foreign options?

I don't know...but something is clearly wrong!!

We don't have as many Scots in the EPL due to the language barrier. We understand the Italians, Argies and French, much easier than we do a Scot

[smokie36]

This is just conjecture, but a point was made that if you went back 20 years (pre-premiership) all good first division English teams had a Scot or two in their side. It is true.

So has the Premier League had an adverse effect on the quality of Scottish players? It is often said that it has affected the depth of English talent.

Not enough young players are getting regular top flight games (both English and Scots), and are thus restricted to playing in lower leagues, be that the SPL or football league.

Just a thought.

It begs the question Why?....its not as if there is a shortage of young players.....is it desire...coaching...cheaper foreign options?

I don't know...but something is clearly wrong!!

We don't have as many Scots in the EPL due to the language barrier. We understand the Italians, Argies and French, much easier than we do a Scot

That's rich coming from a Mancunian...mind you...at least it wasn't a scouser!

[NoshowJones]

From memory and without googling I will say Dundee Utd...maybe 1987.

I did Google, because I couldn't remember !

Since 1965, when Kilmarnock won the title, only Aberdeen, (in 1980, 1984, &1985), and Dundee United (in 1983) have taken the title away from Rangers and Celtic. That statistic in itself should be obvious that something seriously needs to change, for the good of the game as a whole, in Scotland.

Just goes to show...my memory is shot....I think '87 Dundee Utd made the UEFA Cup final....maybe that's what confused me.

Its a disgrace whatever. Bring back two leagues of twenty clubs. Much better.....this current set up is only so the "big two" can play each other four times a season.

And they have a veto over the other ten clubs in the league....absolutely ridiculous!

The Scottish premier league is all about money, up to last season, there were four old firm games per season, the other teams in the league are only interested in money, the money they get when they played Celtic, and the late Rangers. In a, say, eighteen team league would only have two old firm games a season, which would give all the teams the chance to bring through more talented players, but, as I said, it is all about money, and that is what will ruin the Scottish game even more in the future.

[NoshowJones]

Scottish football is a total mess and we all know Celtic will win the spl this season,and for some strange reason the celtic mob think its good.

Celtic don't have a "mob", that word belongs to the late cheating Glasgow Rangers, who should be stripped of the league titles they "won" during the last 12 years.

[NanLaew]

Not much of one...home and away solidly for a couple of years....Stenhousemuir and Berwick were good runs....but I widnae fancy Peterhead!

It's PeterHEID! And if you think that's bad, how about the Broch?!

But looking back at those four years when Aberdeen and Dundee United kept the 'Auld Firm' from the top, what caused that loss of momentum from the 'also rans' that resulted in declining quality Scottish players and their inevitable and significant presence in English league teams? I recall a spell when Scotland's national team qualified for consecutive Word Cups and weren't Celtic the first British cub to take home the European Cup; all with home-grown players, coaches and managers?

Scrap the SPL, get back to three full-size divisions with some sensible inductions from the minor leagues. The Dutch just readjusted their league structure when they introduced a third league in 2010-11. Oh yes, and INVEST in the game. I haven't seen that mentioned in Alex Salmond's independence plans though.

That's not going to happen so dump [insert whatever name Rangers end up with] in the third and give the 12th slot in the SPL to one of the two teams mentioned earlier. I am a Rangers fan (but prefer Peterhead now) and IMHO they don't deserve any better treatment just because of their legacy.

Scotland is too small to compete financially with EPL, Serie A and the Bundesliga. So make it more exciting and approach the KNVB for a 'joint' Premier League with a 'trimmed' Eredivisie. That would pitch Celtic, Hearts and Dundee up against Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV Eindhoven twice a year. Generally one-hour flights to away games and a night out in Amsterdam.

[theblether]

A conversation took place in my shop yesterday involving sundry Rangers and Celtic fans, and at the end of it there was total agreement, that's a miracle..........here's a transcript of the conversation. I'm a Motherwell fan.

Rangers fan..........what about this boycott of the SPL teams?

Me.........................it's a disgrace, as per usual Rangers want to bully the rest of the league

Celtic fan...............aye that's right, noo you know how it feels getting bullied by the establishment club

Me........................shuttit ya rocket, the two yee's are as bad as each uther!!

Celtic fan 2...........naw wur no......they ( blah blah blah chip on shoulder, the Queen's a Rangers fan blah blah kinda thing )

Me.......................haud oan a minute, I've just heard that Iceland have ran out o chips, can you go over and lend them the one's on your shoulder????

Celtic fans...........eh?? we've no goat chips oan oor shoulders!! ( frothing at mouth, eyes bulging. Charles Green is a front for Craig Whyte, Craig Whyte is a front for David Murray, David Murray is a front for the Queen, blah blah )

Me......................have a biscuit and shut up.......look at the state of the two o yeez.........

Celtic fans then munch biscuits while replaying conspiracy theory number 3 million through their heids.........

Me....................So this boycott you were oan aboot, the problem with you Rangers fans is that you make it impossible for people to help youz.......

Rangers fan 1.Eh??? Hows that then, it's no oor fault, a big boy did it an ran away!!!

RFC 2.............aye!! why should w e pay the price fur wan man, it's no right!!

Me..................Craig Whyte? and David Murray??? That's two ya pair o daft bastids.......whit school did ye go tae.........

RFC 1............theblether you piss me off wi aw yer smart arse facts.........gie me a biscuit.

So now we're all munching biscuits pure ragin at everythin!!!

So I said.......what aboot this boycott then????

RFC.............The Celtic fans have said that if the SPL try to change the voting structure they will boycott every away game in the SPL.

( to people that don't know, the Old Firm have a blocking vote on every issue in the SPL, to win a vote you need to vote 11-1, the Old firm have two votes and they never vote against each other ).

me...............your effin jokin........Rangers fans want to boycott everybody because they've went bust, Celtic fans want to boycott everybody because they want to dictate to the rest of the league???? aw come oan.......

Celtic fans stop munchin biscuits....................you know wit??? they said......for the first time in ma life, I can see why the rest o the teams hate the Old Firm.........

Rangers fans.........aye that's right, wit an effin farce........ no wonder we're hated.

At this point I handed round a tin of biscuits and the Old Firm fans sat and munched some more biscuits..........united in their shame.............

I forgot to mention what the biscuits were..............they were Club biscuits................Club 12 biscuits to be exact

Edited June 24, 2012 by theblether

[smokie36]

Good to see you buy the cheap multipacks mate. Proper Calvinist tendencies you're showing there.

[theblether]

Good to see you buy the cheap multipacks mate. Proper Calvinist tendencies you're showing there.

Woooooshhhhh Smokie........that's not like you!!! the fixture list for next season in the SPL was issued as 11 teams plus Club 12.

Do try to keep up.

[smokie36]

Good to see you buy the cheap multipacks mate. Proper Calvinist tendencies you're showing there.

Woooooshhhhh Smokie........that's not like you!!! the fixture list for next season in the SPL was issued as 11 teams plus Club 12.

Do try to keep up.

Tsk....tsk...I knew that of course...but you must remember....the twelfth team is of no importance to me...as the mighty Arbroath are in the Second Division...and on the up.

Speak to a Stenhousemuir fan...they are following developments with some interest.

[theblether]

Good to see you buy the cheap multipacks mate. Proper Calvinist tendencies you're showing there.

Woooooshhhhh Smokie........that's not like you!!! the fixture list for next season in the SPL was issued as 11 teams plus Club 12.

Do try to keep up.

Tsk....tsk...I knew that of course...but you must remember....the twelfth team is of no importance to me...as the mighty Arbroath are in the Second Division...and on the up.

Speak to a Stenhousemuir fan...they are following developments with some interest.

Stenhousemuir have a fan???

[smokie36]

Good to see you buy the cheap multipacks mate. Proper Calvinist tendencies you're showing there.

Woooooshhhhh Smokie........that's not like you!!! the fixture list for next season in the SPL was issued as 11 teams plus Club 12.

Do try to keep up.

Tsk....tsk...I knew that of course...but you must remember....the twelfth team is of no importance to me...as the mighty Arbroath are in the Second Division...and on the up.

Speak to a Stenhousemuir fan...they are following developments with some interest.

Stenhousemuir have a fan???

[smokie36]

Thinking about the logistics if they end up in the third division....they will attract decent crowds at Ibrox on the "its no fair!" ticket....but away from home?

Bumper pay days for the lower leagues and well...I'd love to see who they draw in the Scottish Cup first round.

[theblether]

Thinking about the logistics if they end up in the third division....they will attract decent crowds at Ibrox on the "its no fair!" ticket....but away from home?

Bumper pay days for the lower leagues and well...I'd love to see who they draw in the Scottish Cup first round.

All my Rangerspals want to start from the 3rd and work their way back, various reasons why......I think it's an idea too, it will be refreshing for everyone, interesting to watch, blah blah.

[Jockstar]

Thinking about the logistics if they end up in the third division....they will attract decent crowds at Ibrox on the "its no fair!" ticket....but away from home?

Bumper pay days for the lower leagues and well...I'd love to see who they draw in the Scottish Cup first round.

All my Rangerspals want to start from the 3rd and work their way back, various reasons why......I think it's an idea too, it will be refreshing for everyone, interesting to watch, blah blah.

I'm all for that. we can't play in Europe for 3 years anyway. So if we got into the SPL and won it. We can't play in the CL. What's the point? So lets freshen things up for everyone.

[mrbojangles]

A conversation took place in my shop yesterday involving sundry Rangers and Celtic fans, and at the end of it there was total agreement, that's a miracle..........here's a transcript of the conversation. I'm a Motherwell fan.

Rangers fan..........what about this boycott of the SPL teams?

Me.........................it's a disgrace, as per usual Rangers want to bully the rest of the league

Celtic fan...............aye that's right, noo you know how it feels getting bullied by the establishment club

Me........................shuttit ya rocket, the two yee's are as bad as each uther!!

Celtic fan 2...........naw wur no......they ( blah blah blah chip on shoulder, the Queen's a Rangers fan blah blah kinda thing )

Me.......................haud oan a minute, I've just heard that Iceland have ran out o chips, can you go over and lend them the one's on your shoulder????

Celtic fans...........eh?? we've no goat chips oan oor shoulders!! ( frothing at mouth, eyes bulging. Charles Green is a front for Craig Whyte, Craig Whyte is a front for David Murray, David Murray is a front for the Queen, blah blah )

Me......................have a biscuit and shut up.......look at the state of the two o yeez.........

Celtic fans then munch biscuits while replaying conspiracy theory number 3 million through their heids.........

Me....................So this boycott you were oan aboot, the problem with you Rangers fans is that you make it impossible for people to help youz.......

Rangers fan 1.Eh??? Hows that then, it's no oor fault, a big boy did it an ran away!!!

RFC 2.............aye!! why should w e pay the price fur wan man, it's no right!!

Me..................Craig Whyte? and David Murray??? That's two ya pair o daft bastids.......whit school did ye go tae.........

RFC 1............theblether you piss me off wi aw yer smart arse facts.........gie me a biscuit.

So now we're all munching biscuits pure ragin at everythin!!!

So I said.......what aboot this boycott then????

RFC.............The Celtic fans have said that if the SPL try to change the voting structure they will boycott every away game in the SPL.

( to people that don't know, the Old Firm have a blocking vote on every issue in the SPL, to win a vote you need to vote 11-1, the Old firm have two votes and they never vote against each other ).

me...............your effin jokin........Rangers fans want to boycott everybody because they've went bust, Celtic fans want to boycott everybody because they want to dictate to the rest of the league???? aw come oan.......

Celtic fans stop munchin biscuits....................you know wit??? they said......for the first time in ma life, I can see why the rest o the teams hate the Old Firm.........

Rangers fans.........aye that's right, wit an effin farce........ no wonder we're hated.

At this point I handed round a tin of biscuits and the Old Firm fans sat and munched some more biscuits..........united in their shame.............

I forgot to mention what the biscuits were..............they were Club biscuits................Club 12 biscuits to be exact

Brilliant blether. I found maesel treyin to read it witha scottish accent

[smokie36]

You have no idea mrboj...a fortnight with theblether and I'll be incomprehensible too!

[smokie36]

maesel treyin

masel tryin'

Yer lucky ya radge....usually ah charge fir this likes.......

[mrbojangles]

maesel treyin

masel tryin'

Yer lucky ya radge....usually ah charge fir this likes.......

Did I get "mates rates"

[smokie36]

maesel treyin

masel tryin'

Yer lucky ya radge....usually ah charge fir this likes.......

Did I get "mates rates"

No...you owe me one....I like to keep a few mods on retainer.

[ScotsExpat]

To all the fans of TTFKAGR, I have to ask a question...

Why is is that the slient yet massive majority that believes that demotion to the 3rd Div is the right and proper thing to do are never heard?

To a man, almost, every Govan man I have spoken to have agreed that there has been wrong doing and the best thing for everyone is to start again, do your penance and work your way up...

Yet the Weegia would have the world believe that every blue nose is frothing at the mouth at the idea that there have been rules broken and that SEVCO 5088 should gain automatic admittance to the SPL.

Whilst I am no fan of TTFKAGR (I'm a typical sheep shagger!!), I have to admit a grudging sympathy for those that have had their voices drowned out by the slavering minority who are ready to petrol bomb players for 'turning their back', death threats to those in positions of power who have 'stabbed Rangers in the back' and cannot see what everyone else can..

Rangers are dead, and all that is happening now is a disservice to a team that, for all I feel about them, deserve better from their own...

[ScotsExpat]

I make no apologies for the copy and paste, as this must be one of the most beautifully written pieces on Scottish football I have ever read. from the pages of http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/what-now-for-rangers/comment-page-110/#comments Rangers Tax Case

Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:

22/06/2012 at 10:14 am

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Good Morning,

The late Jock Stein was manager of Dunfermiline, Hibernian, Celtic, Leeds United and the Scottish National team. He had many famous sayings but two in particular resonate this morning.

“Without fans who pay at the turnstile, football is nothing. Sometimes we are inclined to forget that. The only chance of bringing them into stadiums is if they are entertained by what happens on the football field.”

and

“We don’t just want to win the European Cup. We want to do it playing good football, to make neutrals glad we won it, pleased to remember how we did it.”

Stein, was a working class football man, a decent man, a man who could see what football was made of, what it needed, what it meant and what it was— namely a game, a pasttime, an entertainment, and an escape from the daily toil, the job, the boss, the employee, the shop stewards and yes in days gone by even the wife!

Today, life in general is more sophisticated and, in certain respects, more complex than it was when Stein was either a player or a manager. Yet it is clear that in certain basic ways, life is actually as simple and as straightforward as it ever was.

The two quotes above show the man, who might just be the ultimate Scottish Football man, refer to the fans who pay at the turnstyle and to the neutral. The fan and the neutral can be one and the same man woman or child– with a passion for the game in general and one team in particular.

Some of the press articles this morning seem to be completely distant from both the wisdom of Stein, and what appears to be the overwhelming voice of the very fans and the neutrals that Stein talked about– in quotes that are often churned out by the same journalists. It is a shame that they recall these quotes so often yet appear to have never– ever— understood them.

Football is not there to be “rigged” by committees who announce in advance that THEY have decided that there can be a reshaping of leagues and organisations so that what once was Rangers FC can be transported into this league or that!

Have the MSM not realised what the club committees have realised that TV contracts and sponsorhips disappear like snow of a dyke if the fans at the turnstiles turn on their heels and never pass through the turnstiles? Do the SFA and SPL not get the fact that TV revenue, TV advertising and its worth are ultimately determined by straight forward market forces made up of those same fans and a good number of neutrals who will tune in at any given time if the game is attractive enough, but who have made it abundantly clear that rigging the rules, shifting the sand beneath the football fan’s feet, and generally departing from the rules of natural justice which everyone signed up to in the first place is sure to guarantee one thing and one thing only– and that is that the football fan and the neutral will walk away and turn off. The TV Company and the advertiser will notice eventually… and then they too will walk away because that in fact is their job. Turning off the football fan is like turning off the life support system. Football people– contrary to what others might say– do walk away when they see something that they are not comfortable with.

If anyone doubts what I say above then let me give you a more than pertinent example.

I know of one Ibrox employee who walked away from the regime at Ibrox many years ago now. The man concerned, like Stein, was and is a good man, a football man. He knew about the EBT scheme at Ibrox– and says that everyone did— with no exceptions. He had a great job at the club, was well paid, enjoyed the football part of the job, and on the face of it he was in the dream job in many respects.

Yet, he quit and walked away from all of that purely because his own personal and moral compass told him that what was happening within the walls and up the marble staircase was wrong. It was, if not absolutely corrupt, sufficiently dodgy for him to be uncomfortable with the whole set up. He didn’t sleep comfortably in his bed and apparently was just not happy within his own skin. He could not control the big picture at Ibrox, or change the fiscal policies at the club as he was only an employee.

What he could control was himself, and so the decision was made to turn on his heel and walk away—- to another job right enough with less money, fewer perks, no EBT’s, no dodgy dealings—- but with better self respect, peace of mind and many a better night’s sleep.

They say that boxing is a noble art, and you often hear retired boxers heap praise on guys that they once battered and/or feared in the ring. There is often a nobility about a retired boxer. Similarly, in many cases footballers turn out to be ordinary blokes who sample the pain of losing, the joy of winning, but ultimately the sheer fantastic experience of just playing at the highest level that they can achieve. They will play in great games and not so great games– all of which provide them with memories, stories, tales jokes and laughs. So it is with the fan who can only dream of being good enough to play in front of the crowd.

And it is in those dreams that the real soul of the football fan lies. All football fans have dreams. The Dunfermiline fan might have a different dream to the Hearts fan or the Celtic fan. The Celtic fan may have a different dream to the Thistle fan or the Barcelona fan, who both in turn have different dreams to the Malaga fan or the Morton fan. However when dreams are removed altogether by committee decision, by blazer posturing, by self interested quango expediency, then the fan ceases to remain a fan, a season ticket holder a customer, a newspaper buyer and a consumer.

This morning it is as clear as day that fans of all hues and with many differing dreams are of the one opinion– we are being mucked about and we don’t like it. They don’t want dictated to by football politicians or men in committee rooms, they want a game, a fair game, with rules that everyone adheres to, plays by, and are imposed where necessary for good or bad. If that is not available, then you don’t have a sport, an entertainment, a pastime and a game to follow.

As Stein says you have– nothing— without the fans. Take his word for it, not mine!

AS for the posturing that is going on at Ibrox and around it, then I have to say that I see virtually no one who is interested in the game or indeed the fans. I don’t mean that they are not interested in what was Rangers FC or the fans of Rangers FC– all the parties mentioned in the press in connection with the club are seemingly interested in the “Rangers fans”. The Truth is that they are actually interested in their money and their won self interests. They are not interested in The Neutrals or the fans who pay at the turnstiles of any other club, whose views are not to be considered or taken on board if it prejudices their interests and their financial ambitions.

Everything about the situation at Ibrox is unclear. There is no clarity and transparency about anything, yet it is seriously suggested and propogated by the press that the whole of Scottish Football will dance and bend and contort to the tune of unknown people, with unclear ambitions, with unseen finances, undisclosed histories and unchecked arrogance. A league of any sort is an association of different parties who come together for a common purpose. It ceases to be a league when one of those parties starts to bully or blackmail or threaten. It ceases to be a league when one member can breach its rules and flaunt its regulations without fear of punishment and the pre agreed consequences.

I do not know if anyone can rescue the club that once was Rangers now. There are many who have walked away during the Murray era and who will never return in all likliehood. I am told that one of the consortium of McColl/Smith and Park have no intention of investing in Rangers in any shape or form long term. They would help with an initial purchase of the assets from Green but beyond that they want their money back and out. I do not see long term investors there. I do not see long term investors anywhere. I do not see what is going to attract the genuine football fan with no alternative agenda and I do not see anything to attract the neutral. I do not see what once was Rangers escaping the transgressions of the past and I can’t see how any football fan ( whether neutral or no ) can expect them to. I see Mess— complete, total and utter bloody mess. And what you do with mess is wipe it up!

Lastly, there has been some chat earlier about John Clark, the Lisbon Lion who played for Celtic and Morton, and who later managed Clyde, Cowdenbeath and Stranraer. I do not know the man well, but have met him on a couple of occasions under different circumstances over a number of years. I will leave it to others to talk about his footballing exploits, and will only say that Mr Clark is just a lovely lovely man. A real nugget of a human being and that football and life in general would be much the richer and a far nicer and fairer place if there were more John Clark’s in this world.

However, there are not. There is but one John Clark and a really nice guy he is too.

[theblether]

@scotsexpat

A lot to digest................the root of it should be it's only a game, but you know it's far more than that for a lot for people, and for some the football is almost a by product of a cult they have signed up to.

I think a lot of us are heartily scunnered about what has happened to our game over the last 25 years, never mind the last few months. My team, Motherwell, have indicated that we are looking at another potential administration irrespective of the decision that we make in connection with Rangers, damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I remember going to Fir Park when I when Alex Ferguson brought St Mirren for a Scottish Cup tie, 23,000 in our wee stadium, we won 2-1 and the atmosphere was amazing. I saw Dalglish, McGrain, Davie Cooper, and many others work their magic. I was there when Rangers fans invaded the pitch and went on to beat us 5-3, and there the night Andy Lynch scored two own goals in the last 5 minutes, a night when Celtic could have won the Title, but instead went home nursing a 3-0 defeat.

West Brom turned up for a friendly, Willie Pettigrew and Peter Marinello of Motherwell, had a pre-match sprint race against Laurie Cunningham and Cyril Regis, Pettigrew was built like a whippet and he skelped the three of them.

Atmosphere??? Amazing.......Players??? Legendary.......Money??? never spoken about. The players were fans with shirts on.

Now, for many players , the game has all the money in the world , but I can guarantee you..............we were richer back then.

Edited June 25, 2012 by theblether

[ScotsExpat]

@scotsexpat

A lot to digest................the root of it should be it's only a game, but you know it's far more than that for a lot for people, and for some the football is almost a by product of a cult they have signed up to.

I think a lot of us are heartily scunnered about what has happened to our game over the last 25 years, never mind the last few months. My team, Motherwell, have indicated that we are looking at another potential administration irrespective of the decision that we make in connection with Rangers, damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I remember going to Fir Park when I when Alex Ferguson brought St Mirren for a Scottish Cup tie, 23,000 in our wee stadium, we won 2-1 and the atmosphere was amazing. I saw Dalglish, McGrain, Davie Cooper, and many others work their magic. I was there when Rangers fans invaded the pitch and went on to beat us 5-3, and there the night Andy Lynch scored two own goals in the last 5 minutes, a night when Celtic could have won the Title, but instead went home nursing a 3-0 defeat.

West Brom turned up for a friendly, Willie Pettigrew and Peter Marinello of Motherwell, had a pre-match sprint race against Laurie Cunningham and Cyril Regis, Pettigrew was built like a whippet and he skelped the three of them.

Atmosphere??? Amazing.......Players??? Legendary.......Money??? never spoken about. The players were fans with shirts on.

Now, for many players , the game has all the money in the world , but I can guarantee you..............we were richer back then.

A pretty good summation, bletherer.

The question has to be how did the change happen? Was it Sky money that suddenly changed the face of football? Was it the creation of the SPL?

As a Dons fan of the Fergie era, I can only look back and scratch my head at the way football has changed, on both sides of the border, over the last 30 years.

I remember Aberdeen vs Ipswich, Aberdeen vs Liverpool in late 70's, early 80's. Battles of Britain, evenly matched (on occasions!!) with the vast majority of players on the park being Scots.

You also, at the same time, had kids out playing footie, a la 'Jumpers for Goalposts', trying to emulate the Warks, Millers, Strachans and Dalglish's.

When I am back home nowadays, the closest I see kids to a footie field is the PC screen. The players pulling on the shirts are not fans, they are the new celebrities.

I am not saying it will be easy to change this mindset, but I believe Scottish football is in the perfect position to attempt to address the failings of the last 20 odd years and bring football back to teh people it was originally supposed to be for, the fan.

[oldgit]

@scotsexpat

A lot to digest................the root of it should be it's only a game, but you know it's far more than that for a lot for people, and for some the football is almost a by product of a cult they have signed up to.

I think a lot of us are heartily scunnered about what has happened to our game over the last 25 years, never mind the last few months. My team, Motherwell, have indicated that we are looking at another potential administration irrespective of the decision that we make in connection with Rangers, damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I remember going to Fir Park when I when Alex Ferguson brought St Mirren for a Scottish Cup tie, 23,000 in our wee stadium, we won 2-1 and the atmosphere was amazing. I saw Dalglish, McGrain, Davie Cooper, and many others work their magic. I was there when Rangers fans invaded the pitch and went on to beat us 5-3, and there the night Andy Lynch scored two own goals in the last 5 minutes, a night when Celtic could have won the Title, but instead went home nursing a 3-0 defeat.

West Brom turned up for a friendly, Willie Pettigrew and Peter Marinello of Motherwell, had a pre-match sprint race against Laurie Cunningham and Cyril Regis, Pettigrew was built like a whippet and he skelped the three of them.

Atmosphere??? Amazing.......Players??? Legendary.......Money??? never spoken about. The players were fans with shirts on.

Now, for many players , the game has all the money in the world , but I can guarantee you..............we were richer back then.

A pretty good summation, bletherer.

The question has to be how did the change happen? Was it Sky money that suddenly changed the face of football? Was it the creation of the SPL?

As a Dons fan of the Fergie era, I can only look back and scratch my head at the way football has changed, on both sides of the border, over the last 30 years.

I remember Aberdeen vs Ipswich, Aberdeen vs Liverpool in late 70's, early 80's. Battles of Britain, evenly matched (on occasions!!) with the vast majority of players on the park being Scots.

You also, at the same time, had kids out playing footie, a la 'Jumpers for Goalposts', trying to emulate the Warks, Millers, Strachans and Dalglish's.

When I am back home nowadays, the closest I see kids to a footie field is the PC screen. The players pulling on the shirts are not fans, they are the new celebrities.

I am not saying it will be easy to change this mindset, but I believe Scottish football is in the perfect position to attempt to address the failings of the last 20 odd years and bring football back to teh people it was originally supposed to be for, the fan.

North or south of the border,it's the same problem.If you're a young,talented Scottish or English footballer,you have to have to have the mental toughness as well as the ability to push on,especially in the UK where most of the top foreign players come for the money.Too many times,I see home grown youngsters playing within their comfort zone...armchair footballers I call them....and not pushing on.They need the hunger to succeed and,for whatever reason, it just isn't there anymore.Whether they're afraid to make a mistake for fear of getting pulled off or turfed out,I don't know.

James McFadden is an example of someone with bundles of talent who should have been a miles better than he is.Maybe the injury two seasons ago put him back but it's so frustrating when you see talent wasted.