Thai Police Hunt For Portuguese Men In Phi-Phi Island Hotel Death Case

[ManInSurat]

Only one of the men would have had to have handed in their passport to the hotel when staying in one room.

I disagree. I just returned from Phuket 2 weeks ago. Everywhere we stayed on the island, each and every hotel demanded my passport as well as my g/f's passport or Thai ID as well. They never asked for my son's ID. This seems to be a Phuket thing and possibly other islands in the area as well. Makes sense to me.

Ah fair enough. I stand corrected. I'm married to a Thai too and this has happened to me in BKK also. A more interesting question would be, if our wives were Western and not a lady and not our wives, would they still have asked for it?

They're off the hook though now.

EDIT : Stop reading my thoughts Justaword!

Edited June 22, 2012 by ManInSurat

[Beetlejuice]

Are the police sure the portuguese guys name is Tinto, I have a suspition his name might have been Tonto, if so, I think I might have found his accomplice...

Sorry, I just could not resist

Sorry nothing really funny about the tragic deaths of two young girls.

Are the police sure the portuguese, Portuguese guys, guy`s name is Tinto, I have a suspition suspician his name might may have been Tonto, if so, I think I might may have found his accomplice.

I would first learn to spell before you crack jokes at the expense of someone else`s suffering.

Sorry something really tragic about the spelling and grammar lesson in relation to the tragic deaths of two young girls.

It`s a display of ignorance.

Obviously these morons don`t have children of their own.

Tragedy can strike any of us or those nearest and dearest at anytime.

If something like this were to affect these idiots on a personal level, than I very much doubt that they would see a humorous side to it.

[w11guy]

"There were neither signs of fighting, nor robbery, but we found many kinds of over-the-counter-drugs, including ibuprofen, which can cause serious effects on the stomach."

Really, ibuprofen is the most dangerous drug they found in their room?

I've never been a basher but this one has finally got to me.

Good god, where is Columbo when we need him.

They didn't say Ibuprofen was the most dangerous. They said it was one of many drugs found. Where do you get the idea that it was the most dangerous. In fact, Ibuprofen can kill.

[cowslip]

"but we found many kinds of over-the-counter-drugs, including ibuprofen, which can cause serious effects on the stomach."" - talk about clutching at straws - they just blame anything and everyone rather than face up to the possibility it may be the blame lies with a local business.

[moskito]

it MUST be the Ibuprofen.... HOW PATHETIC

Have the Authorities already tried to connected the case with the other two young dead ladies on the very same Island called PHE PHE ???

I guess this case now will undergo the same explanations at last... Wait another month or year and nobody will talk about it anymore....except

Family and friends.....

[Hellhound66]

it MUST be the Ibuprofen.... HOW PATHETIC

Have the Authorities already tried to connected the case with the other two young dead ladies on the very same Island called PHE PHE ???

I guess this case now will undergo the same explanations at last... Wait another month or year and nobody will talk about it anymore....except

Family and friends.....

Except that the autopsies were done in Bangkok, blood and tissue samples have been delivered to Canadian authorities before embalming and the bodies just arrived in Canada for a second autopsy.

And as for Ibuprofen if mixed with large quantities of alcohol and or chemical substances of an undetermined nature can cause severe stomach bleeding which may or may not be a contributing factor in their deaths.

E essa é a história até agora

[lonexpat]

Nice try. Biggest load of dribble I"ve heard in a long time. Glad you made it but I don" t see the similarities between you being a complete and utter <deleted> and two young girls dying

"There were neither signs of fighting, nor robbery, but we found many kinds of over-the-counter-drugs, including ibuprofen, which can cause serious effects on the stomach."

Really, ibuprofen is the most dangerous drug they found in their room?

I've never been a basher but this one has finally got to me.

Good god, where is Columbo when we need him.

You can buy valium, clonazepam, xanax, tramadol, you name it, it can be bought without script in a lot of pharmacies here. If you mix benzos with alcohol and maybe a little opiates, you can get yourself into a very very intoxicated state where you pass out and can choke on your own vomit or die from where your breathing becomes so shallow it eventually stops. I should know, way back I was using valium and other benzos daily and one day I drank a lot of whisky with a lot of benzos and I don't remember 2 whole days after that incident. My GF came back from work to find me in a room full of vomit and with blue lips, but I was not dead luckily. She helped me back to recovery and everything from that point for a good week is hazy. I honestly think these girls maybe were very intoxicated and ended up dying because of it, alcohol plus benzos is really quite a dangerous mix. I could be wrong because they have both died, we shall have to wait and see.

[chickenslegs]

Are the police sure the portuguese guys name is Tinto, I have a suspition his name might have been Tonto, if so, I think I might have found his accomplice...

Sorry, I just could not resist

Sorry nothing really funny about the tragic deaths of two young girls.

Are the police sure the portuguese, Portuguese guys, guy`s name is Tinto, I have a suspition suspician his name might may have been Tonto, if so, I think I might may have found his accomplice.

I would first learn to spell before you crack jokes at the expense of someone else`s suffering.

Oh dear. The correct spelling is suspishun

[ttelise]

Wow, too much for me too keep up with post wise.

Interesting points:

(1) Perhaps toxicology, or at least preliminary findings, are revealing toxins such as chemicals or poisons so NOW the Thai investigators are finally looking for people or interest. If tox test came back clean and food pathogens present, no need to look for anyone except resturant owners.

(2) As indicated on first day, Thai authorities have probably finally put their heads to gether and figured out that best way to deal with issue is to blame on a farang and say: "We got him, all is safe now" or "He is gone, all is safe now."

(3) Not sure of the time line, but garden variety food poosing may not act that quickly or at leats not related to some thing they ate for dinner that night if they were already showing symptoms at 1:00 a.m. that evening.

(4) If severe intoxication sufficient to cause death, they would have been stumbling around or been carried back to room. Benzos and etc will definitely show up in toxicology as that stuff stays in system a while. Tramadol not going to cause any worries when combined with alcohol. If benzo issue sufficient to cause death, they would have been very lethargic and perhaps not mobile when going back to room.

Drugs and food poisoning are less and less likely the true cause, unless got a hold of toxic shrooms.

[GeorgeO]

Thai investigators are looking for two Portuguese men, who were seen on closed-circuit cameras escorting Noemi and Audrey Belanger back to their hotel room.

So, it takes a week before they can act on security camera footage. I'm guessing it was not so easy to pin this one on Ibuprofen.

So there is obviously significant effort going into this case to show that this was some external influence (farang) that caused these deaths! One can only hope that similar efforts will be placed into the attacks, and the murder of an elderly lady, that were recently reported in Phuket!

[moskito]

it MUST be the Ibuprofen.... HOW PATHETIC

Have the Authorities already tried to connected the case with the other two young dead ladies on the very same Island called PHE PHE ???

I guess this case now will undergo the same explanations at last... Wait another month or year and nobody will talk about it anymore....except

Family and friends.....

Except that the autopsies were done in Bangkok, blood and tissue samples have been delivered to Canadian authorities before embalming and the bodies just arrived in Canada for a second autopsy.

And as for Ibuprofen if mixed with large quantities of alcohol and or chemical substances of an undetermined nature can cause severe stomach bleeding which may or may not be a contributing factor in their deaths.

E essa é a história até agora

nah, sure, you must be a doctor or pharmacist (: I hope the Canadian autopsie is better as in the last case, two years ago, here. When I remember there was samples also send to Bangkok....but never explained what the true case of the death has been.

I am stupid and belive a little bit more what eyewitnesses say...like in the first thread about this case posted by a member here... The eywitness talked about heavy chemical smell in the bungalow where his fiance died earlier....

Anyway, I hope there will be a good explanation for the 4+5 death woman on the island of Phe Phe.....but I not doubt it, know since the authorities work together with the Canadians.

may the girls rest in peace

[Nisa]

Thai TV news were showing stills from the video and room tonight. Show the Portugese guy holding hands with one girl in the hallway. Only the two were in the picture. Says he was staying in the hotel and something about him leaving a note saying he was sorry but had to go to Phuket (not sure who the note was to). They have been unable to locate him in Phuket. They also spoke about and showed images of CSI and masked and gloved workers going through the room. The Portugese guy is not a suspect (as of yet, there is no crime) but they want to speak to him since he knew the girls and was last seen with them. They think he may already be back in Portugal but didn't appear to attribute that thought to any source. The photos also appeared to show at least one girl (hard to see the other twin bed because lots if investigators and medical looking people in the room) was lying on the bed but it appeared both were on their separate beds and the one girl appeared in a normal sleeping position on her back. Pictured were blurred but looked like she was wearing a shirt and either black shorts or a skirt and was on top of the covers or at least somebody by that point had pulled down the covers. There was no obvious sign of blood or vomit on the bed that I could tell and it just looked like they blurred her but the photo was not up long enough to make any detailed observations. Channel 3.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Nisa

[davidstipek]

I had the experience of a farang who drugged a friend of mine and he would of died if i didn't check on him. Here is the story.

Back in 1992 I was living at Cowboy Guest house in Chiang Mai for 3 month stay. I met a journalist named Richard who was also doing a long stay and I showed him around North Thailand as I could speak Thai and new many nice villages. . . etc.

........to get into his room. He was laying their lifeless and would not respond to my trying to wake him up. Next to his bed was a heroin kit with needles, spoon, heroin and everying to make it look like a drug overdose. I ran downstairs and flagged a Songteaw. 3 of us carried Richard to the Songteaw and rushed him to McCormick hospital. Richard did survive but only barely. His laptop, money, passport and anything of value from his room was stolen.

Be careful,

Randy

... are you sure his "LAPTOP" got stolen . . . . how come, a LAPTOP in 1992 ????????

All you have to do is open a new tab, go to Google and type 1992 laptop and get this.... It took me less than 30 seconds to do.

1992 Laptop and this 1992 Laptop and this too IBM Think Pad 1992.

Or alternatively, you could read someone else's story and pick it apart without doing any research on the subject whatsoever to find that minor ridiculously trivial detail that will make you "King of Pedanticland", if only for a few minutes.

Whatever turns you on man.

P.S. If you don't know what Google is.... Google it.

I agree with you! I still have a Compac Presario that is vintage 1991. Sure it's slow, had to do massive updates thru the years to keep my wife happy. Luckly Both her and the Laptop work at the same speed, so she's really happy!

So I agree with you completely, people forget there were computers,laptop, MSN and the Internet prior to 1992. Just seems apparent that he couldn't afford one, not the same for the rest of us!

I think hers had 250 mb memory card and 2 slots, so you can react to what 2 gb did to her brain (yes I love my wife, in her slow steady way)

[ManInSurat]

Thai TV news were showing stills from the video and room tonight. Show the Portugese guy holding hands with one girl in the hallway. Only the two were in the picture. Says he was staying in the hotel and something about him leaving a note saying he was sorry but had to go to Phuket (not sure who the note was to). They have been unable to locate him in Phuket. They also spoke about and showed images of CSI and masked and gloved workers going through the room. The Portugese guy is not a suspect (as of yet, there is no crime) but they want to speak to him since he knew the girls and was last seen with them. They think he may already be back in Portugal but didn't appear to attribute that thought to any source. The photos also appeared to show at least one girl (hard to see the other twin bed because lots if investigators and medical looking people in the room) was lying on the bed but it appeared both were on their separate beds and the one girl appeared in a normal sleeping position on her back. Pictured were blurred but looked like she was wearing a shirt and either black shorts or a skirt and was on top of the covers or at least somebody by that point had pulled down the covers. There was no obvious sign of blood or vomit on the bed that I could tell and it just looked like they blurred her but the photo was not up long enough to make any detailed observations. Channel 3.

So it would seem to me, that if the Thai media are reporting this in Thai, even knowing they desperately try to wrongly sheild their populace from negative news stories and are coming out and categorically not laying the blame at Tinto's door - they're not presenting evidence and allowing the public to draw wrong conclusions from the connections.

They could have easily spun this if they wanted to.

Was there any insinuation that it could be connected to the 2009 case in the news item? Are they giving any impression of foul play? Is there any inference of negligence here?

And now Mr Cynical in the Tin Foil Hat comes out to play...

Could it be they're straight batting this as Canada has the bodies and will almost definitely know cause of death very soon, if they don't already?

There's been people touting Tuesday as a possible release day for the toxicology report coming out. Remarkably fast turnourd given previous cases.

(Ok, tin foil's off now.)

Edited June 22, 2012 by ManInSurat

[ttelise]

it MUST be the Ibuprofen.... HOW PATHETIC

Have the Authorities already tried to connected the case with the other two young dead ladies on the very same Island called PHE PHE ???

I guess this case now will undergo the same explanations at last... Wait another month or year and nobody will talk about it anymore....except

Family and friends.....

Except that the autopsies were done in Bangkok, blood and tissue samples have been delivered to Canadian authorities before embalming and the bodies just arrived in Canada for a second autopsy.

And as for Ibuprofen if mixed with large quantities of alcohol and or chemical substances of an undetermined nature can cause severe stomach bleeding which may or may not be a contributing factor in their deaths.

E essa é a história até agora

nah, sure, you must be a doctor or pharmacist (: I hope the Canadian autopsie is better as in the last case, two years ago, here. When I remember there was samples also send to Bangkok....but never explained what the true case of the death has been.

I am stupid and belive a little bit more what eyewitnesses say...like in the first thread about this case posted by a member here... The eywitness talked about heavy chemical smell in the bungalow where his fiance died earlier....

Anyway, I hope there will be a good explanation for the 4+5 death woman on the island of Phe Phe.....but I not doubt it, know since the authorities work together with the Canadians.

may the girls rest in peace

Haha, for last time . . . These girls would have had to take an entire bottle of Mortin, plus drank PGA and been predisposed to ulcer before potential bleeding gastric issues.

The problem with internet researching . . . The net pages you guys read are stating nothing more than what drug companies list as black box warnings or listed on patient package inserts. One must understand what a black box warning truly is before formulating such conclusions.

Drug manufacturers provide black box warnings on labels for one purpose, to circumvent potential liability. These black box warning arise as the result of controlled studies run for and paid by the companies who own patent. (Conflict of interest here . . ., but that is our system).

You could literally have 1 or 2 out 10,000 in a study to suffer from gastric bleeding and might list as a warning. The 1 or 2 individuals could have also been either predisposed to ulcers or geriatrics with other health factors. Drug companies then list to avoid liability if a patient should experience an issue covered by the black box warnings (subject to exceptions beyond purview of this discussion).

So just because you read it could happen means very, very little. The reaility is motrin is very innocuous and very, very, very unlikely to cause bleeding in a healthy young adult and most young adults consume alcohol.

I litigated the Vioxx and Celebrex mass tort cases for several years and have seen studies and deposed many experts regarding the safety and efficiacy of these drugs compared to other NSAIDs including Mortin. Mortin did not cause, precipitate, exacerbate, or contribute to their deaths unless: (1) They each ate a whole bottle (puking it up would have fixed that problem); (2) drank pure grain alcohol; (3) they had been taking large amounts long term; AND (not or) (4) had a prexisting ulcer and bleeding disorder.

Edited June 22, 2012 by ttelise

[Nisa]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

[dingdang]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

yes, everywhere people die, but

- a hospital full of "food poisonings" is NOT normal

- and 4 unexplained deaths on this island in a few years...?

no...

if there is a bacteria that makes so many people sick and kills some - then "ok" - but it has to be identified and a travel warning raised...

people could perhaps prepare with proper medication, avoid some foods or been tested before they travel - or stay away...

there seems a particular problem on phi phi.. too many deaths, too young people and too little explanation...

the virus/bacteria/source has to be identified...

Edited June 22, 2012 by dingdang

[Nisa]

Thai TV news were showing stills from the video and room tonight. Show the Portugese guy holding hands with one girl in the hallway. Only the two were in the picture. Says he was staying in the hotel and something about him leaving a note saying he was sorry but had to go to Phuket (not sure who the note was to). They have been unable to locate him in Phuket. They also spoke about and showed images of CSI and masked and gloved workers going through the room. The Portugese guy is not a suspect (as of yet, there is no crime) but they want to speak to him since he knew the girls and was last seen with them. They think he may already be back in Portugal but didn't appear to attribute that thought to any source. The photos also appeared to show at least one girl (hard to see the other twin bed because lots if investigators and medical looking people in the room) was lying on the bed but it appeared both were on their separate beds and the one girl appeared in a normal sleeping position on her back. Pictured were blurred but looked like she was wearing a shirt and either black shorts or a skirt and was on top of the covers or at least somebody by that point had pulled down the covers. There was no obvious sign of blood or vomit on the bed that I could tell and it just looked like they blurred her but the photo was not up long enough to make any detailed observations. Channel 3.

So it would seem to me, that if the Thai media are reporting this in Thai, even knowing they desperately try to wrongly sheild their populace from negative news stories and are coming out and categorically not laying the blame at Tinto's door - they're not presenting evidence and allowing the public to draw wrong conclusions from the connections.

They could have easily spun this if they wanted to.

Was there any insinuation that it could be connected to the 2009 case in the news item? Are they giving any impression of foul play? Is there any inference of negligence here?

And now Mr Cynical in the Tin Foil Hat comes out to play...

Could it be they're straight batting this as Canada has the bodies and will almost definitely know cause of death very soon, if they don't already?

There's been people touting Tuesday as a possible release day for the toxicology report coming out. Remarkably fast turnourd given previous cases.

(Ok, tin foil's off now.)

No, they were not reporting it irresponsibly or like idiots if that is your question or wish. It is an ongoing investigation where police and medical personal are not releasing all the private details and theories for morons who are not trained in investigations, poisoning, pharmaceuticals or other medical illnesses to speculate for their own pleasure and to bread fear when all the facts are not in. But it appears there are some statements being made such as the Portugese guy is not a suspect in a crime because a crime has not even been determined but when people including English based media and expat forums ignorantly believe somebody is being hunted for a crime, they appear to have come out and cleared that up. So, no the reporters have not gone through all the numerous investigators and medical professional notes, photos, videos, tests and so on and reported on them. Like anywhere else, they talk to other non-professionals who have limited info (like the girl who partied with them) and try to speculate on what has been officially released.

[ManInSurat]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

While I'd like to side with you on this one Nisa, the statistic that more Brits die in Thailand every year than any other place in the world (aside from the UK obviously) makes it hard for me to do that. (Source.)

Don't get me wrong, I love this place like no other. It is a perilous place though where people seem to die in suspicious circumstances too regularly for it to be coincidental.

Maybe it just attracts the wrong type of person. For hedonists this place can be a death sentence.

My take on it.

Edited June 22, 2012 by ManInSurat

[ManInSurat]

Thai TV news were showing stills from the video and room tonight. Show the Portugese guy holding hands with one girl in the hallway. Only the two were in the picture. Says he was staying in the hotel and something about him leaving a note saying he was sorry but had to go to Phuket (not sure who the note was to). They have been unable to locate him in Phuket. They also spoke about and showed images of CSI and masked and gloved workers going through the room. The Portugese guy is not a suspect (as of yet, there is no crime) but they want to speak to him since he knew the girls and was last seen with them. They think he may already be back in Portugal but didn't appear to attribute that thought to any source. The photos also appeared to show at least one girl (hard to see the other twin bed because lots if investigators and medical looking people in the room) was lying on the bed but it appeared both were on their separate beds and the one girl appeared in a normal sleeping position on her back. Pictured were blurred but looked like she was wearing a shirt and either black shorts or a skirt and was on top of the covers or at least somebody by that point had pulled down the covers. There was no obvious sign of blood or vomit on the bed that I could tell and it just looked like they blurred her but the photo was not up long enough to make any detailed observations. Channel 3.

So it would seem to me, that if the Thai media are reporting this in Thai, even knowing they desperately try to wrongly sheild their populace from negative news stories and are coming out and categorically not laying the blame at Tinto's door - they're not presenting evidence and allowing the public to draw wrong conclusions from the connections.

They could have easily spun this if they wanted to.

Was there any insinuation that it could be connected to the 2009 case in the news item? Are they giving any impression of foul play? Is there any inference of negligence here?

And now Mr Cynical in the Tin Foil Hat comes out to play...

Could it be they're straight batting this as Canada has the bodies and will almost definitely know cause of death very soon, if they don't already?

There's been people touting Tuesday as a possible release day for the toxicology report coming out. Remarkably fast turnourd given previous cases.

(Ok, tin foil's off now.)

No, they were not reporting it irresponsibly or like idiots if that is your question or wish. It is an ongoing investigation where police and medical personal are not releasing all the private details and theories for morons who are not trained in investigations, poisoning, pharmaceuticals or other medical illnesses to speculate for their own pleasure and to bread fear when all the facts are not in. But it appears there are some statements being made such as the Portugese guy is not a suspect in a crime because a crime has not even been determined but when people including English based media and expat forums ignorantly believe somebody is being hunted for a crime, they appear to have come out and cleared that up. So, no the reporters have not gone through all the numerous investigators and medical professional notes, photos, videos, tests and so on and reported on them. Like anywhere else, they talk to other non-professionals who have limited info (like the girl who partied with them) and try to speculate on what has been officially released.

Not a wish, simply a question.

I'm really saying that there are easily citeable instances from past cases, even ones extremely similar to this, where Thailand's response to an incident like this could be viewed as being difficult to the extent that they might be hiding something.

It is fair to level the criticism at the Thai government that they deal with cases like this with almost no transparency at all.

You can see from my post history that I'm normally branded a Thai apologist, so I'm not a basher. I'll try and defend the reputation of my adopted home, but only if I think it's genuinely merited.

As for breeding fear and unsubstantiated speculation? Welcome to the internetz my friend.

"Feedest ye notte yon trolles."

Edited June 22, 2012 by ManInSurat

[moskito]

will you PLEEEEEASE read Ryans post, before assuming further..... its a little bit longer, but I guess he is on the right way... Ryans is the post a little bit down on the page http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1769166 THANK YOU - and let me know what your thoughts are AFTER you read it....

[dingdang]

...to speculate on what has been officially released.

to avoid this happening, police everywhere holds press conferences, where information is given to the public and the press...

what did they say in the press conference?

Edited June 22, 2012 by dingdang

[Nisa]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

yes, everywhere people die, but

- a hospital full of "food poisonings" is NOT normal

- and 4 unexplained deaths on this island in a few years...?

no...

if there is a bacteria that makes so many people sick and kills some - then "ok" - but it has to be identified and a travel warning raised...

people could perhaps prepare with proper medication, avoid some foods or been tested before they travel - or stay away...

there seems a particular problem on phi phi.. too many deaths, too young people and too little explanation...

the virus/bacteria/source has to be identified...

2 unexplained deaths. Not 4. It is incredibly normal to not know a cause of death for a month after while autopsy and toxicology information is examined. A nurse at the hospital was quoted as saying they see cases of food poisoning each day. The hospital is not even a real hospital and is more a triage center with one doctor on duty. It is to treat minor ailments or stabilize people to be transported to a real hospital. They say the number of food poisoning cases they see is not unusual with most being treated right there. Up to 10,000 visitors visit the island each day with a good deal of them there to party and get a bit wild as well as not having built up local tolerances to everything from bacteria in food to the mosquito breed there.

Instead of being drama queens, why not wait until the facts are in and instead of putting on blinders, compare the island to any other party haven beach town and then consider the stage of development of that particular country. Sure, it is human nature to speculate and be curious but lets not pretend things have or have not happened based on personal emotions.

[mommysboy]

it MUST be the Ibuprofen.... HOW PATHETIC

Have the Authorities already tried to connected the case with the other two young dead ladies on the very same Island called PHE PHE ???

I guess this case now will undergo the same explanations at last... Wait another month or year and nobody will talk about it anymore....except

Family and friends.....

Except that the autopsies were done in Bangkok, blood and tissue samples have been delivered to Canadian authorities before embalming and the bodies just arrived in Canada for a second autopsy.

And as for Ibuprofen if mixed with large quantities of alcohol and or chemical substances of an undetermined nature can cause severe stomach bleeding which may or may not be a contributing factor in their deaths.

E essa é a história até agora

nah, sure, you must be a doctor or pharmacist (: I hope the Canadian autopsie is better as in the last case, two years ago, here. When I remember there was samples also send to Bangkok....but never explained what the true case of the death has been.

I am stupid and belive a little bit more what eyewitnesses say...like in the first thread about this case posted by a member here... The eywitness talked about heavy chemical smell in the bungalow where his fiance died earlier....

Anyway, I hope there will be a good explanation for the 4+5 death woman on the island of Phe Phe.....but I not doubt it, know since the authorities work together with the Canadians.

may the girls rest in peace

Haha, for last time . . . These girls would have had to take an entire bottle of Mortin, plus drank PGA and been predisposed to ulcer before potential bleeding gastric issues.

The problem with internet researching . . . The net pages you guys read are stating nothing more than what drug companies list as black box warnings or listed on patient package inserts. One must understand what a black box warning truly is before formulating such conclusions.

Drug manufacturers provide black box warnings on labels for one purpose, to circumvent potential liability. These black box warning arise as the result of controlled studies run for and paid by the companies who own patent. (Conflict of interest here . . ., but that is our system).

You could literally have 1 or 2 out 10,000 in a study to suffer from gastric bleeding and might list as a warning. The 1 or 2 individuals could have also been either predisposed to ulcers or geriatrics with other health factors. Drug companies then list to avoid liability if a patient should experience an issue covered by the black box warnings (subject to exceptions beyond purview of this discussion).

So just because you read it could happen means very, very little. The reaility is motrin is very innocuous and very, very, very unlikely to cause bleeding in a healthy young adult and most young adults consume alcohol.

I litigated the Vioxx and Celebrex mass tort cases for several years and have seen studies and deposed many experts regarding the safety and efficiacy of these drugs compared to other NSAIDs including Mortin. Mortin did not cause, precipitate, exacerbate, or contribute to their deaths unless: (1) They each ate a whole bottle (puking it up would have fixed that problem); (2) drank pure grain alcohol; (3) they had been taking large amounts long term; AND (not or) (4) had a prexisting ulcer and bleeding disorder.

I agree. What possible combination of motrin, alcohol and recreational drugs such as speed/yaba consumed even in large quantities could possibly go on to produce the symptoms described ?, and even if such severe poisoning were achievable how on earth would anyone be able to walk back to their room in the manner decribed?

If there is such a combination, please someone say what it is.

The point is there has to be another toxin, which is the stand alone cause of death.

[Nisa]

...to speculate on what has been officially released.

to avoid this happening, police everywhere holds press conferences, where information is given to the public and the press...

what did they say in the press conference?

You can read numerous quotes from numerous news sources which quote the information police have provided and just like everywhere else, they don't give a blow by blow and keep details to themselves while (and even after) the investigation is on going. Please don't pretend police in the west are in the habit of releasing details of an ongoing investigation. Again, stop being led by emotions and step back into reality.

[ginjag]

Nisa, I am not gunning for you at all, but your defence again is normal you, I honestly would love to have your attitude regarding coincidental deaths, non cover-ups-be lenient to young drivers that kill.

Seemingly there are not enough highly qualified forensics, or things get cleaned up in rooms etc, too early, the authorities are afraid of monetary losses rather than the definate truths. There always will be cases unexplained. Example Downtown-rooms cleaned and stripped and redecorated/refurbished-evidence clouded, and then the place is demolished ??? nowhere is perfect and here is an example BUT there is such a thing as law of averages, sorry but here that seems NOT to apply.

[dingdang]

the people who died on phi phi had one (other) thing in common: they were not in drugs...

Edited June 22, 2012 by dingdang

[dingdang]

...to speculate on what has been officially released.

to avoid this happening, police everywhere holds press conferences, where information is given to the public and the press...

what did they say in the press conference?

You can read numerous quotes from numerous news sources which quote the information police have provided and just like everywhere else, they don't give a blow by blow and keep details to themselves while (and even after) the investigation is on going. Please don't pretend police in the west are in the habit of releasing details of an ongoing investigation. Again, stop being led by emotions and step back into reality.

long winded...

so there are no press conferences...

[mommysboy]

In the US many kids die each year over spring break. Not sure why so many people find so many conspiracy theories and shock in the number of younger people dying on an island which in a less developed nation which is basically like an all year round spring break and where there are lots of bacteria outsiders may not have built any immunity too as well as it being a place they are unfamiliar with and it being a place where drugs are readily available and where there are drugs there are bad people. As for the deaths two years ago, people dying without being able to confirm the initial cause of particular organ failures is not at all uncommon. One body of the bodies was cremated (assuming with the consent of next of kin as is law) and one body was autopsied in Norway where the cause of death was also unable to be determined.

Wake up people, in less devloped nations people die of things at higher rates and die of things they may not have in a more developed nation or in a city with lots of medical staff and not on an island with very limited medical facilities.

But I guess if bashing helps to inflate an obviously low self-esteem then go right on.

yes, everywhere people die, but

- a hospital full of "food poisonings" is NOT normal

- and 4 unexplained deaths on this island in a few years...?

no...

if there is a bacteria that makes so many people sick and kills some - then "ok" - but it has to be identified and a travel warning raised...

people could perhaps prepare with proper medication, avoid some foods or been tested before they travel - or stay away...

there seems a particular problem on phi phi.. too many deaths, too young people and too little explanation...

the virus/bacteria/source has to be identified...

2 unexplained deaths. Not 4. It is incredibly normal to not know a cause of death for a month after while autopsy and toxicology information is examined. A nurse at the hospital was quoted as saying they see cases of food poisoning each day. The hospital is not even a real hospital and is more a triage center with one doctor on duty. It is to treat minor ailments or stabilize people to be transported to a real hospital. They say the number of food poisoning cases they see is not unusual with most being treated right there. Up to 10,000 visitors visit the island each day with a good deal of them there to party and get a bit wild as well as not having built up local tolerances to everything from bacteria in food to the mosquito breed there.

Instead of being drama queens, why not wait until the facts are in and instead of putting on blinders, compare the island to any other party haven beach town and then consider the stage of development of that particular country. Sure, it is human nature to speculate and be curious but lets not pretend things have or have not happened based on personal emotions.

Yes and keep on abstracting and distracting and you know what the whole thing didn't happen at all, and black is white, and we really don't need to consider these terrible deaths, because they become a small stat, correlated with trends, and regressed out of existence to show that in fact there isn't a problem at all!

Wake up smell the poison!

[Nisa]

Thai TV news were showing stills from the video and room tonight. Show the Portugese guy holding hands with one girl in the hallway. Only the two were in the picture. Says he was staying in the hotel and something about him leaving a note saying he was sorry but had to go to Phuket (not sure who the note was to). They have been unable to locate him in Phuket. They also spoke about and showed images of CSI and masked and gloved workers going through the room. The Portugese guy is not a suspect (as of yet, there is no crime) but they want to speak to him since he knew the girls and was last seen with them. They think he may already be back in Portugal but didn't appear to attribute that thought to any source. The photos also appeared to show at least one girl (hard to see the other twin bed because lots if investigators and medical looking people in the room) was lying on the bed but it appeared both were on their separate beds and the one girl appeared in a normal sleeping position on her back. Pictured were blurred but looked like she was wearing a shirt and either black shorts or a skirt and was on top of the covers or at least somebody by that point had pulled down the covers. There was no obvious sign of blood or vomit on the bed that I could tell and it just looked like they blurred her but the photo was not up long enough to make any detailed observations. Channel 3.

So it would seem to me, that if the Thai media are reporting this in Thai, even knowing they desperately try to wrongly sheild their populace from negative news stories and are coming out and categorically not laying the blame at Tinto's door - they're not presenting evidence and allowing the public to draw wrong conclusions from the connections.

They could have easily spun this if they wanted to.

Was there any insinuation that it could be connected to the 2009 case in the news item? Are they giving any impression of foul play? Is there any inference of negligence here?

And now Mr Cynical in the Tin Foil Hat comes out to play...

Could it be they're straight batting this as Canada has the bodies and will almost definitely know cause of death very soon, if they don't already?

There's been people touting Tuesday as a possible release day for the toxicology report coming out. Remarkably fast turnourd given previous cases.

(Ok, tin foil's off now.)

No, they were not reporting it irresponsibly or like idiots if that is your question or wish. It is an ongoing investigation where police and medical personal are not releasing all the private details and theories for morons who are not trained in investigations, poisoning, pharmaceuticals or other medical illnesses to speculate for their own pleasure and to bread fear when all the facts are not in. But it appears there are some statements being made such as the Portugese guy is not a suspect in a crime because a crime has not even been determined but when people including English based media and expat forums ignorantly believe somebody is being hunted for a crime, they appear to have come out and cleared that up. So, no the reporters have not gone through all the numerous investigators and medical professional notes, photos, videos, tests and so on and reported on them. Like anywhere else, they talk to other non-professionals who have limited info (like the girl who partied with them) and try to speculate on what has been officially released.

Not a wish, simply a question.

I'm really saying that there are easily citeable instances from past cases, even ones extremely similar to this, where Thailand's response to an incident like this could be viewed as being difficult to the extent that they might be hiding something.

It is fair to level the criticism at the Thai government that they deal with cases like this with almost no transparency at all.

You can see from my post history that I'm normally branded a Thai apologist, so I'm not a basher. I'll try and defend the reputaion of my adopted home, but only if I think it's genuinely merited.

As for breeding fear and unsubstantiated speculation? Welcome to the internetz my friend.

"Feedest ye notte yon trolles."

Well lets take this case ... what cover up has taken place? And although this is not the west and it is idiotic to believe things should happen here like the west, what has happened since this incident that would not have happened in the west beyond a bunch of keyboard sleuths who regularly bash Thailand to use this as another instance to bash Thailand even if it means speculating the girls were held at gun point by police while they died to prevent them from getting help.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Nisa