Nasa Project May Be Delayed: Thai-US Ties

[webfact]

THAI-US TIES

Nasa project may be delayed

The Nation

MPs, senators to debate operation as legislature 'consulted' under Article 179

BANGKOK: -- Time appeared to be running out on the US National Aeronautics and Space Administration's weather-research project yesterday as Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra announced that the Cabinet had decided to put it to a parliamentary debate.

"As the [parliamentary] checking process is slow, it might lead Nasa to decide to withdraw the project, because it faces time constraints," Yingluck told reporters after the Cabinet meeting.

"We have lost a chance to develop our capability for weather forecasting," she said. "Thanks to all the scientists for their efforts to explain this matter. The government will seek all other possible ways to get more information for scientific purposes."

The project, for which Nasa requested the use of U-tapao airbase by its weather-surveillance aircraft in August and September, has become a political issue, with opposition lawmakers voicing suspicions over possible ulterior motives by Washington.

The Democrat Party has alleged that the United States might be conducting the research for military purposes to contain China in Asia and the Pacific, and claimed the Thai government offered the use of U-tapao in exchange for a US visa for fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Yingluck said her government had not made any legally binding commitment to Nasa, adding that the project had not yet begun. Concerned agencies have tried to clarify the matter, but there remain suspicions in many quarters, including in the opposition camp, over Thailand's national interests and security, she said.

"The allegation is very serious. To ensuree transparency, the government agrees to use the Parliament mechanism to scrutinise the project," Yingluck said.

Asked whether the project could be renewed, she said it was up to Parliament and public opinion.

The government's deputy spokes-man, Chalitrat Chantarubeksa, said the Cabinet decided to put the Nasa project through a parliamentary debate in accordance with Article 179 of the Constitution, not Article 190 as demanded by the opposition.

Article 179 says the Cabinet can seek opinions from Parliament in cases involving important problems of administration. Parliament does not make any resolution in such debates.

Article 190 says agreements with foreign countries or international organisations need parliamentary approval if they result in a change in territory or sovereignty over territory or have implications on national economic or social security.

The Council of State and the Foreign Ministry's Treaties and Legal Affairs departments earlier told the Cabinet that parliamentary scrutiny of the Nasa project was not required under Article 190.

Foreign Minister Surapong Towichukchaikul said the Cabinet was still worried as the opposition had twisted the issue by saying Nasa had a hidden agenda to conduct research for military purposes to contain China.

"We have good relations with both China and the US, but Opposition Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva keeps saying that the government has not been clear on the issue," he said.

Science, Technology and Environment Minister Prodprasob Surassawadee and Defence Minister Sukampol Suwannathat gave all the details of the project to the public via the mass media every day, Surapong said.

To make clear to the public that the government has no hidden interests, the Cabinet will consult Parliament in accordance with Article 179 of the Constitution, he said.

Parliament will open for its next session on August 1, which will miss Nasa's deadline for beginning the project. "The delay is not in the national interest; the opposition has overly politicised the issue," Surapong said.

"We cannot accept the allegation of failing to protect the national interest made by the opposition," he said.

Surapong said he would inform the US of the Cabinet's decision and ask Nasa to begin the project next year, since time was running out to begin the project this year.

Anond Snidvongs, executive director of the Geo-Informatics and Space Technology Development Agency, said scientists felt uncomfortable continuing with the project, as it was widely misunderstood and could ignite political conflict.

"The delay might give us a 'strange' reputation among the international community, but we have to avoid internal social conflict," he said.

Abhisit said there would have been no problems if the government had used parliamentary channels long ago to make all things clear. It seemed the project was put on hold and has an unclear future now, he said.

The government should be aware of the fact that the public wanted to know about the project, but sat on it for months, he said. "The country lost this opportunity because the government lacks transparency," Abhisit said.

Activist Suriyasai Katasila of the Green Politic Group said the Cabinet should put the Nasa project before Parliament in accordance with Article 190, rather than Article 179. The group will ask the Administrative Court to terminate the project, he said.

-- The Nation 2012-06-27

[webfact]

U-TAPAO

Cabinet decision 'very disappointing'

CHULARAT SAENGPASSA,

PONGPHON SARNSAMAK

THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- Leading scientists and climate experts said yesterday that they were disappointed with the Cabinet's decision to take Nasa's request to use U-tapao to Parliament.

Thailand has lost a very good opportunity to learn some valuable information about weather conditions.

"By not making a decision now, you have killed the project, because it was meant to go into full swing by August," said Narisara Thongboon-choo, a lecturer at King Mongkut's Institute of Technology Lat Krabang.

"Nasa only has a month to put all the equipment in place for the project to be launched as scheduled. It will not be able to wait to hear from the Parliament, which will only resume its session on August 1."

Narisara has participated in two Nasa missions, one in Hong Kong and the other in the United States.

"It takes years to prepare for [such a] project, to invite more than 300 scientists and doctorate students to work on it," she explained. "How can everybody adjust their schedules if the project is postponed?"

She said her team had informed Nasa of the Cabinet's decision, but had not received a reply as of press time. She believes the US space agency will prefer to scrap the project instead of postponing it.

Asked whether the agency might move the project to Singapore, Narisara said: "I don't think so, because it is quite complicated and not easy to start anew."

Associate Professor Serm Janjai, from Silpakorn University's department of physics, explained that Nasa was planning to study weather in Thailand during the months of August and September because the conditions during this period are good for collecting aerosol samples.

The monsoon period in October will not be conducive to this research, he said. Hence if the Parliament were to approve the use of U-tapao in early August, there would not be enough time to conduct the study.

"The team needs at least a month to move all the equipment over and another three weeks to set it up," Serm explained. Like Narisara, he believes that Thailand has lost a very good opportunity.

"It's over. Thai scientists will not get another opportunity to work with an organisation like Nasa. Also, it will be difficult for agencies like Nasa to seek to collaborate with the government," he said.

Narisara said she could not understand why certain figures worked so hard to block this project.

"I don't know what is their intention - whether they really don't understand the project or intend to misrepresent it," she said. "Also, I would like to ask MPs from both the government and opposition benches if they would be able to come up with adequate funds for a project of this scale."

She said if Thailand loses this chance with Nasa, she will propose that the project be handed over to EarthTec. "It will require a little over Bt1 billion," she said.

-- The Nation 2012-06-27

[Moruya]

Here are a few points that the PTP government should consider....

They had the details back in August/September last year. Why was it not put on the table until so late? Too busy with your pardon Thaksin bills?

Surapong - foreign minister - were you so busy helping Thaksin with passports and things?

Surapong and Plodprasop - do you not know parliamentary procedure well enough to have known that this needs to be dsicussed at parliament?

Yingluck - are you so naive to think that the PTP government can just do what the hell it wants because it has a mandate?

Quit blaming other people - the blame lies with you!!!!!

[cloudhopper]

'"The delay might give us a 'strange' reputation among the international community, but we have to avoid internal social conflict," he said.'

Good luck on both counts children. I'm beginning to appreciate why "Lord of the Flies" was required reading in junior high school.

[lannarebirth]

'"The delay might give us a 'strange' reputation among the international community, but we have to avoid internal social conflict," he said.'

Good luck on both counts children. I'm beginning to appreciate why "Lord of the Flies" was required reading in junior high school.

Do you think they even know what aeronautical or space even means? Never forget they turned down the world wide web when those cables wanted to land here. "How Much Will You Pay Us"? was the Thai response. Now it's in Malaysia and we all suffer for that. Idiots just doesn't seem an appropriate word. What's the next lowest one on the intellect scale?

[canman]

'"The delay might give us a 'strange' reputation among the international community, but we have to avoid internal social conflict," he said.'

Good luck on both counts children. I'm beginning to appreciate why "Lord of the Flies" was required reading in junior high school.

Do you think they even know what aeronautical or space even means? Never forget they turned down the world wide web when those cables wanted to land here. "How Much Will You Pay Us"? was the Thai response. Now it's in Malaysia and we all suffer for that. Idiots just doesn't seem an appropriate word. What's the next lowest one on the intellect scale?

Actually idiot is the correct classification as moron and imbecile are higher up on the IQ scale:

50-69, Moron. 20-49, Imbecile. below 20, Idiot

[geriatrickid]

My heart goes out to Thailand's small group of educated talented scientists that chose to remain and to try to contribute to the country. The one chance a group of them has at accessing advanced equipment, and of working with one of the world's better scientific groups, and they get shat on.

I expect that there will be ramifications.

The U.S. sourced research grants and funding for various public health initiatives comes up for review soon. The applied research community is relatively small and they have good memories. Given the option of cutting a program in Thailand or one elsewhere under the mandatory funding reductions, I don't think one needs a crystal ball to see what will happen. Thailand has lost both status, respect and more importantly, a one in a lifetime opportunity for some of its post doc students and their profs. When the U.S. was engaged in its quest to reach the moon two generations of kids were inspired to consider the sciences, to be bold and to dream. Having access to a NASA might have inspired some Thai kids, not that those in power care. Maybe instead of sing song contests to distract kids they could offer interesting diversions in science.. Sorry, but the fear of science and this project brings to mind the khmer rouge approach to people that wore eyeglasses.

Edited June 27, 2012 by geriatrickid

[sirchai]

" Whether a research or an important place to observe other countries via drones?"

American tax payers will appreciate all invested money...........

U- Tapao the airport, where all the Russians fly in directly from Moscow?

Even those - for Thai men- 'exotic women'- without a passport, working in Pattaya and Bangkok in the horizontal business...........

Was like that around 15 years ago......

Edited June 27, 2012 by sirchai

[NowImEasy]

Maybe PM Yingluck and the governments' mistake was to announce the science project at about the same time that it was announced that the US military was seeking permission to station US forces there, in a long term lease arrangement. To many people (not myself) the NASA project was seen as part of the Military base plan.

As strange as it sounds, the US can possibly lease space at Cam Ran Bay, which they built. The Vietnamese people and gov't are very much more pro-American than the Thais.

[Lifer]

Ignorant and like an ostrich with head in the sand. Don't help our people in need, we can do it ourselves. We see how they do that!

[daboyz1]

Chotthee stated this in the previous thread: This is incorrect.

Now he want to sell off U-Tapao in Sattahip, just to exchange from a US non-immigrant visa (Green Card).

A green card (I-551) is an immigrant visa, not a non-immigrant visa.

Continuous residence must be upheld in the U.S. If a green card holder leaves the U.S. for between 6 months and 1 year without a re-entry permit, the green card could be considered abandoned. If the green card holder leaves for more than 1 year, the green card is considered abandoned.

You may be found to have abandoned your permanent resident status if you:

• Move to another country intending to live there permanently
  
• Remain outside of the United States for more than 1 year without obtaining a reentry permit or returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned, any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year
  
• Remain outside of the United States for more than 2 years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year
  
• Fail to file income tax returns while living outside of the United States for any period
  
• Declare yourself a “nonimmigrant” on your tax returns
  

Source:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=3f443a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=3f443a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

[Moruya]

Chotthee stated this in the previous thread: This is incorrect.

Now he want to sell off U-Tapao in Sattahip, just to exchange from a US non-immigrant visa (Green Card).

A green card (I-551) is an immigrant visa, not a non-immigrant visa.

Continuous residence must be upheld in the U.S. If a green card holder leaves the U.S. for between 6 months and 1 year without a re-entry permit, the green card could be considered abandoned. If the green card holder leaves for more than 1 year, the green card is considered abandoned.

You may be found to have abandoned your permanent resident status if you:

• Move to another country intending to live there permanently
  
• Remain outside of the United States for more than 1 year without obtaining a reentry permit or returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned, any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year
  
• Remain outside of the United States for more than 2 years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year
  
• Fail to file income tax returns while living outside of the United States for any period
  
• Declare yourself a “nonimmigrant” on your tax returns
  

Source:

http://www.uscis.gov...000082ca60aRCRD

I think the inferrence was that the visa would come without any playing by the rules - a sort of "short circuit" if you like.

There you are you mister Thaksin - here's your green card, have a nice life. Thanks for the clouds by the way.

[LomSak27]

think the inferrence was that the visa would come without any playing by the rules - a sort of "short circuit" if you like.

There you are you mister Thaksin - here's your green card, have a nice life. Thanks for the clouds by the way.

Do any of you have any first hand facts about this VISA or Green Card or is this just remour served up for local consumption. Being that the US would LOVE to stay out of thai intercine political battles this is one of the craziest ideas I have heard.

But if you have some facts post em, don't be shy,

If not I will consider it nothing more than the usual barking at the moon.

Edited June 27, 2012 by LomSak27

[daboyz1]

Chotthee stated this in the previous thread: This is incorrect.

Now he want to sell off U-Tapao in Sattahip, just to exchange from a US non-immigrant visa (Green Card).

A green card (I-551) is an immigrant visa, not a non-immigrant visa.

Continuous residence must be upheld in the U.S. If a green card holder leaves the U.S. for between 6 months and 1 year without a re-entry permit, the green card could be considered abandoned. If the green card holder leaves for more than 1 year, the green card is considered abandoned.

You may be found to have abandoned your permanent resident status if you:

• Move to another country intending to live there permanently
  
• Remain outside of the United States for more than 1 year without obtaining a reentry permit or returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned, any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year
  
• Remain outside of the United States for more than 2 years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year
  
• Fail to file income tax returns while living outside of the United States for any period
  
• Declare yourself a “nonimmigrant” on your tax returns
  

Source:

http://www.uscis.gov...000082ca60aRCRD

I think the inferrence was that the visa would come without any playing by the rules - a sort of "short circuit" if you like.

There you are you mister Thaksin - here's your green card, have a nice life. Thanks for the clouds by the way.

Not likely. U.S. doesn't need Thailand in this case. I'm sure the Philippines are still kicking themselves about closing Clark AFB and Subic Bay. They'd probably be more than happy to have this project. Also, it doesn't sounds like the "spying on China" conspiracies some are throwing out here. Satellites are much better anyway.

It's just more B.S. Thai politics at the end of the day.

[Moruya]

think the inferrence was that the visa would come without any playing by the rules - a sort of "short circuit" if you like.

There you are you mister Thaksin - here's your green card, have a nice life. Thanks for the clouds by the way.

Do any of you have any first hand facts about this VISA or Green Card or is this just remour served up for local consumption. Being that the US would LOVE to stay out of thai intercine political battles this is one of the craziest ideas I have heard.

But if you have some facts post em, don't be shy,

If not I will consider it nothing more than the usual barking at the moon.

The direct inferrence from the Dems was that a deal had been struck with the US as I outlined above. Clouds for Green Card.

[kruangfaifar]

think the inferrence was that the visa would come without any playing by the rules - a sort of "short circuit" if you like.

There you are you mister Thaksin - here's your green card, have a nice life. Thanks for the clouds by the way.

Do any of you have any first hand facts about this VISA or Green Card or is this just remour served up for local consumption. Being that the US would LOVE to stay out of thai intercine political battles this is one of the craziest ideas I have heard.

But if you have some facts post em, don't be shy,

If not I will consider it nothing more than the usual barking at the moon.

I thought that this thread is about NASA using U-Tapao

[blundaman]

to all them unbelieverz out there, click yo heelz and get with the pogrom..

[Moruya]

My heart goes out to Thailand's small group of educated talented scientists that chose to remain and to try to contribute to the country. The one chance a group of them has at accessing advanced equipment, and of working with one of the world's better scientific groups, and they get shat on.

I expect that there will be ramifications.

The U.S. sourced research grants and funding for various public health initiatives comes up for review soon. The applied research community is relatively small and they have good memories. Given the option of cutting a program in Thailand or one elsewhere under the mandatory funding reductions, I don't think one needs a crystal ball to see what will happen. Thailand has lost both status, respect and more importantly, a one in a lifetime opportunity for some of its post doc students and their profs. When the U.S. was engaged in its quest to reach the moon two generations of kids were inspired to consider the sciences, to be bold and to dream. Having access to a NASA might have inspired some Thai kids, not that those in power care. Maybe instead of sing song contests to distract kids they could offer interesting diversions in science.. Sorry, but the fear of science and this project brings to mind the khmer rouge approach to people that wore eyeglasses.

My heart goes out to all the people of this country for voting is such a bunch of one eyed, useless hobgoblins

[LomSak27]

Ok M., you just confirmed: this is nothing but Barking at the stars courtesy of the DEMOCRATS

I did not think it was anything more than that but always like to double check,

By the way any new information on the

1 Robe ceremony at the Emerald Buddha

2 Erwan shrine vandalism

3 Finland Plot

No - just another story with ABSOLUTELY NO FACTS to back it up. Uh HUH, and why am I not suprised. I never did much care for Thaksin but when the Democrats pull these Donkeys out of a hat, I do not think highly of them either.

Gotta go, I'm working on my shelter for the CORONAL MASS EJECTION event coming up next month and watching Doomsday Preppers. Catch you post Apocalypse

Edited June 27, 2012 by LomSak27

[attrayant]

Did she really say "To ensuree transparency [...]"?

[Moruya]

Ok M., you just confirmed: this is nothing but Barking at the stars courtesy of the DEMOCRATS

I did not think it was anything more than that but always like to double check,

By the way any new information on the

1 Robe ceremony at the Emerald Buddha

2 Erwan shrine vandalism

3 Finland Plot

No - just another story with ABSOLUTELY NO FACTS to back it up. Uh HUH, and why am I not suprised. I never did much care for Thaksin but when the Democrats pull these Donkeys out of a hat, I do not think highly of them either.

Gotta go, I'm working on my shelter for the CORONAL MASS EJECTION event coming up next month and watching Doomsday Preppers. Catch you post Apocalypse

Please don't hurry back. Make sure you do a thorough job

[noitom]

Whatever happened to that Thai big cheese who was pontificating that parliament needn't be involved in this decision. It doesn't concern Thai sovereignty. Bring him in front and center. Let's have a look at him.

• 
  

• Quote
  
• MultiQuote
  

[TinoThailand]

Nothing bad about the Thai and Thailand where I live... But what a show again. Who they think they can fool all the time?

Half a year ago you could come up with aticle 179 and 190 or whatever I red. So weak to point at some article why they are only ther to guide you in YOUR JOB!

[TinoThailand]

Chotthee stated this in the previous thread: This is incorrect.

Now he want to sell off U-Tapao in Sattahip, just to exchange from a US non-immigrant visa (Green Card).

A green card (I-551) is an immigrant visa, not a non-immigrant visa.

Continuous residence must be upheld in the U.S. If a green card holder leaves the U.S. for between 6 months and 1 year without a re-entry permit, the green card could be considered abandoned. If the green card holder leaves for more than 1 year, the green card is considered abandoned.

You may be found to have abandoned your permanent resident status if you:

• Move to another country intending to live there permanently
  
• Remain outside of the United States for more than 1 year without obtaining a reentry permit or returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned, any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year
  
• Remain outside of the United States for more than 2 years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year
  
• Fail to file income tax returns while living outside of the United States for any period
  
• Declare yourself a “nonimmigrant” on your tax returns
  

Source:

http://www.uscis.gov...000082ca60aRCRD

I think the inferrence was that the visa would come without any playing by the rules - a sort of "short circuit" if you like.

There you are you mister Thaksin - here's your green card, have a nice life. Thanks for the clouds by the way.

Not likely. U.S. doesn't need Thailand in this case. I'm sure the Philippines are still kicking themselves about closing Clark AFB and Subic Bay. They'd probably be more than happy to have this project. Also, it doesn't sounds like the "spying on China" conspiracies some are throwing out here. Satellites are much better anyway.

It's just more B.S. Thai politics at the end of the day.

You're right, they miss a nice oppertunity, specially for the people who dream about this and it's there job. Hold back again by ther goverments.

I agree no spying, what is there to spy on? Secret tom yum ingedients?

[Moruya]

Chotthee stated this in the previous thread: This is incorrect.

Now he want to sell off U-Tapao in Sattahip, just to exchange from a US non-immigrant visa (Green Card).

A green card (I-551) is an immigrant visa, not a non-immigrant visa.

Continuous residence must be upheld in the U.S. If a green card holder leaves the U.S. for between 6 months and 1 year without a re-entry permit, the green card could be considered abandoned. If the green card holder leaves for more than 1 year, the green card is considered abandoned.

You may be found to have abandoned your permanent resident status if you:

• Move to another country intending to live there permanently
  
• Remain outside of the United States for more than 1 year without obtaining a reentry permit or returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned, any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year
  
• Remain outside of the United States for more than 2 years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year
  
• Fail to file income tax returns while living outside of the United States for any period
  
• Declare yourself a “nonimmigrant” on your tax returns
  

Source:

http://www.uscis.gov...000082ca60aRCRD

I think the inferrence was that the visa would come without any playing by the rules - a sort of "short circuit" if you like.

There you are you mister Thaksin - here's your green card, have a nice life. Thanks for the clouds by the way.

Not likely. U.S. doesn't need Thailand in this case. I'm sure the Philippines are still kicking themselves about closing Clark AFB and Subic Bay. They'd probably be more than happy to have this project. Also, it doesn't sounds like the "spying on China" conspiracies some are throwing out here. Satellites are much better anyway.

It's just more B.S. Thai politics at the end of the day.

You're right, they miss a nice oppertunity, specially for the people who dream about this and it's there job. Hold back again by ther goverments.

I agree no spying, what is there to spy on? Secret tom yum ingedients?

anyone for tiddly winks?

[TinoThailand]

Really, poor scientists! Work so hard and all the goverment want is you to study on something that the outcome is proven already because of the Thai mentality.

[Markaew]

Maybe Yingluck is worried that the facade of Thai people being normal will come down if outside people see them close up.

[crobe]

It is a shame that this might be cancelled - it wil have longer lasting impact on on Thailand's image in the science community

Edited June 27, 2012 by crobe

[EvilDrSomkid]

It is a shame that this might be cancelled - it wil have longer lasting impact on on Thailand's image in the science community

It will be cancelled. As said in the article, NASA will probably scrap the whole project.

A once in a lifetime opportunity has been lost completely.

Any time spent by the Thai agencies or Parliamant on debating this is a complete and utter waste of time.

The deadline was June 26th. That was YESTERDAY!

Well, done Thai politicians.

You will not look "strange" to the international community, you will look like the incompetent children that you are.

This time, ALL the Thai MPs look like asses.

The PTP for sitting on this and dithering for months, busy with their fill-our-pockets and put-our-cronies-in-place agenda.

The Dems for making a bunch of noise about sovereignty issues and possible security issues with the PRC.

The other parties are inconsequential.

Edited June 27, 2012 by EvilDrSomkid

[gerry1011]

By building so many "stories" to discredit the PT government, I believe that in the (not so) long run the Democrats are just hurting themselves.

Little by little, more and more people, among the minority who still listen to them, get tired of their low level political games and realize that they are really not able to do anything else than barking.

It is clear that they are putting all their energy in disturbing whatever they can, as well as jeopardizing any type of reconciliation.

I wish they would start a new strategy trying to make more people respect them and their ideas... if they have any, of course.