Phi Phi Poisonings: Autopsy Results On Canadian Sisters ‘Inconclusive’

[davidstipek]

^ as the bodies were embalmed before leaving Thailand, I wouldn't hope for too much. We can only hope the Thai police labs are testing for a lot of different compounds.

And then that we will get full disclosure of results.

[snicker]

That Thai forensics team did not take sample until 5 days after discovery , possibly 7 days after death does not bode well, either.

At least that blatant mis information of food poisoning isn't going to hold water, anymore. I hope.

Re the Portuguese guy,

I have read a post that about a media " report" re a note from him being in the room proves something or,.. 'nother about his inocence or involvement but it seems the cops haven't considered it could have been slipped under the door and the the maid or more likely untrained cops first on the scene picked it up off the floor and set it on a table.

regardless, I don't think dope-date- rapers escort victims home and then don't rape them. Or had he (or they?)

The police quoted claims that no violence occured therefore no foul play is also suspect .

Wow... I don't think Canadian Team is going to find anything either. Once Thailand Embalmed the bodies... all fluids drained and replaced with a foreign substance they screwed everyone! Believe me they knew before they embalmed that the family had requested an autopsy in Canada. I think somebody in the forensics team has some explaining to do... FAST!

Bodies should have been frozen and shipped on ice, purely a fact!

The next logical step:

If Thailand couldn't find (or did not want to... for sake of Tourism) This would insure that noone else found anything either!

Insane!

I know Good Doctors in Thailand, 5 Star... trouble is they work in Hospitals and are not on call for the Police...(tea money...)

If I Die you all know who the cimminals are..... and the motive!

[BarnicaleBob]

So far four people have been found dead in their hotel rooms in Phi Phi and another seven in Chiang Mai, as well as two more in other parts of Thailand all within the past 3 years. God only know how many others have successfully swept under the carpet that we don’t know about. Also keep in mind these are for the most only the western tourist that we know about because the deaths of Thais in hotel rooms has not drawn any attention at all.

All these people have had the same similar deaths, vomiting and organ failure and in all case this came on while they were in their beds. In all cases no drugs or poison has been found in the bodies and the cause of death was organ failure.

It must be something in the environment or the hotel rooms, yet I never have heard of any protection or investigation or testing of beds and other things of the death scenes, the rooms they died in. Oh yes, maybe months later after the rooms had been cleaned and in some cases beds replaced. (In the case of the Downtown Inn, the owners remodeled it and then a few months after that they tore it down. WHY were there more deaths nobody knows about?) They need to secure the rooms until the investigation is complete the next time this happens.

At the very least Thai authorities need to recognize the above patterns and to act differently the next time it happens.

They need to at least find a name for these kinds of deaths; “Thai Sudden Hotel Death Syndrome” or something like that.

[Nisa]

Sad for the family that the cause of death couldn't be wrapped up quickly but unless the cause was an obvious toxin, infection..., I am not sure what other conclusion people would expect at 2 weeks from only a preliminary autopsy in what is likely going to be some kind of deadly toxin case.

2 weeks isn't even enough time to get a full toxicology report back and based on this report, it would appear they "might" not even have them cut them open as there is no mention of what organs failed or stomach content. Typically there would be some announcement of cause of death such as dehydration or a particular organ failure with unknown reasons for the failure. Hopefully in about a month the Canadian team who has performed a full autopsy will have determined the initial cause of death and they might even announce the resulting reason (dehydration, heart failure...) for death before then.

Again, just sad the family has to wait but am sure the coroner's office in Canada had prepared them that this will likely take some time to get any definitive answers.

Your other post denies saying this, but paragraph 2, sentence 1 says 2 weeks not enough time to get toxicology report back.

No, I said "full toxicology report back"

What is so hard for you to grasp. According the the Canadian Coroner's office ...

"The completion of autopsies can take hours or days, and the publication of the official report weeks or months,"

http://www.winnipegf...ampaign=/canada

Realize, I simply asked if you knew if Arsenic was an easy substance to detect because you seemed sure this was the cause of death and if it wasn't an easy thing to detect and took time then it is still a possibility they haven't got results back on this yet.

And please stop firing idiotic questions off to me (while ignoring my question) which I never in anyway shape or form claimed to have the answers.

So then you do agree that two weeks was sufficient time for Thai authorities to get back a full toxicology report? . . . Assuming no back up at lab,

Lets just agree to disagree because it seems like we are speaking different languages.

[Nisa]

Wondering why we've heard so little about the two sister's girlfriend who landed herself in the hospital for three days.

She fled to Malaysia.

Edit: See: http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/food-poison-scot-flees-thailand-1-2371209

Edited June 28, 2012 by Nisa

[ttelise]

^ as the bodies were embalmed before leaving Thailand, I wouldn't hope for too much. We can only hope the Thai police labs are testing for a lot of different compounds.

And then that we will get full disclosure of results.

[snicker]

That Thai forensics team did not take sample until 5 days after discovery , possibly 7 days after death does not bode well, either.

At least that blatant mis information of food poisoning isn't going to hold water, anymore. I hope.

Re the Portuguese guy,

I have read a post that about a media " report" re a note from him being in the room proves something or,.. 'nother about his inocence or involvement but it seems the cops haven't considered it could have been slipped under the door and the the maid or more likely untrained cops first on the scene picked it up off the floor and set it on a table.

regardless, I don't think dope-date- rapers escort victims home and then don't rape them. Or had he (or they?)

The police quoted claims that no violence occured therefore no foul play is also suspect .

Wow... I don't think Canadian Team is going to find anything either. Once Thailand Embalmed the bodies... all fluids drained and replaced with a foreign substance they screwed everyone! Believe me they knew before they embalmed that the family had requested an autopsy in Canada. I think somebody in the forensics team has some explaining to do... FAST!

Bodies should have been frozen and shipped on ice, purely a fact!

The next logical step:

If Thailand couldn't find (or did not want to... for sake of Tourism) This would insure that noone else found anything either!

Insane!

I know Good Doctors in Thailand, 5 Star... trouble is they work in Hospitals and are not on call for the Police...(tea money...)

If I Die you all know who the cimminals are..... and the motive!

My guess, and I may be wrong, they simply ran mass spec or gas chromotagraphy and looked for spikes relating to drugs and common toxins. Warafarin, all drugs and etc, would hit like a MFer if those were of sufficient quantity to cause death. To rule out certain other poisons perhaps such as arsenic and blow fish poisiton, the may have to resort to other more specific methodology/test that focuses on the substances and they would possible need to obtain tissue samples not normally utilized for regular toxicology in the form of mass spec.

This is why aresnic can go unnoticed because if officials do not suspect it, they may never look for it or find it by running specific test for it.

That being said, Thais could have done all of this in 2 weeks including cultures for any bacterium I am aware of. I just doubt they did as, people have mentioned, no deaths from toxins need to go unsolved in this day and age. We have technology to figure anything out.

[ttelise]

Your other post denies saying this, but paragraph 2, sentence 1 says 2 weeks not enough time to get toxicology report back.

No, I said "full toxicology report back"

What is so hard for you to grasp. According the the Canadian Coroner's office ...

"The completion of autopsies can take hours or days, and the publication of the official report weeks or months,"

http://www.winnipegf...ampaign=/canada

Realize, I simply asked if you knew if Arsenic was an easy substance to detect because you seemed sure this was the cause of death and if it wasn't an easy thing to detect and took time then it is still a possibility they haven't got results back on this yet.

And please stop firing idiotic questions off to me (while ignoring my question) which I never in anyway shape or form claimed to have the answers.

So then you do agree that two weeks was sufficient time for Thai authorities to get back a full toxicology report? . . . Assuming no back up at lab,

Lets just agree to disagree because it seems like we are speaking different languages.

Yep, your speaking denial and I'm speaking science.

But to imply or insinuate they killed themselves . . . You say you have children. Go give them a big hug and be thankful you can because this Candadian father cannot do this now . . .

Edited June 28, 2012 by ttelise

[MEL1]

So many doctors present, and yet such bullshit.

Time to calm it down or not?

Argue all you like, but you'll get nothing realistic until an official Canadian announcement.

-mel.

[Nisa]

So far four people have been found dead in their hotel rooms in Phi Phi and another seven in Chiang Mai, as well as two more in other parts of Thailand all within the past 3 years. God only know how many others have successfully swept under the carpet that we don’t know about. Also keep in mind these are for the most only the western tourist that we know about because the deaths of Thais in hotel rooms has not drawn any attention at all.

All these people have had the same similar deaths, vomiting and organ failure and in all case this came on while they were in their beds. In all cases no drugs or poison has been found in the bodies and the cause of death was organ failure.

It must be something in the environment or the hotel rooms, yet I never have heard of any protection or investigation or testing of beds and other things of the death scenes, the rooms they died in. Oh yes, maybe months later after the rooms had been cleaned and in some cases beds replaced. (In the case of the Downtown Inn, the owners remodeled it and then a few months after that they tore it down. WHY were there more deaths nobody knows about?) They need to secure the rooms until the investigation is complete the next time this happens.

At the very least Thai authorities need to recognize the above patterns and to act differently the next time it happens.

They need to at least find a name for these kinds of deaths; “Thai Sudden Hotel Death Syndrome” or something like that.

While agree something is odd in the rash of mystery deaths, it is my understanding the deaths up North happened over a 6 week period before they were tied together and a number of folks didn't stay at the hotel. In this case, there were numerous reports of all sorts of CSI and other agencies going through the room for at least days afterwards and there is nothing to indicate how long the room was closed or if it is even open now or if the agencies hauled off everything from the room. So, it does seem they jump on this case a lot faster and were more thorough in terms of checking the room.

[Nisa]

So many doctors present, and yet such bullshit.

Time to calm it down or not?

Argue all you like, but you'll get nothing realistic until an official Canadian announcement.

-mel.

Lets hope anyway. I don't think even with all the international involvement with the deaths up North that any definitive cause of death was found. At least according to the last I read .. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14543759

[waza]

How bizzar

[Thaifever]

no deaths from toxins need to go unsolved in this day and age. We have technology to figure anything out.

agreed. you won't find anything if you don't look for it. this case was botched from the beginning as the thai police were insinuating the girls were druggies since they "had pills all over the room which are dangerous when taken with alcohol." Ya, people are dropping like flies after taking ibuprofen to wean off a little hangover.

why would anyone expect more from the thai police. the tourism industry shall be defended at all cost.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Thaifever

[Nisa]

I guess having unknown causes of deaths in hotels as opposed to a cause (even if murdered) does wonders for the tourist industry.

Murders are forgotten fairly quickly (especially when you can pin it on anyone you like as many believe is easy to do here) but mystery deaths drag on a very long time in the press.

[Dukeleto]

Concerned tourists should show their unhappiness by voting with their tourist dollars by boycotting Phi Phi until this investigation is solved. This may light a fire under the investigation and get it moving rapidly. Unlikely to occur but if enough people stop going it will make all the difference. I certainly won't be punting Phi Phi to anyone I know until this is resolved, how could I in all conscience. What a tragic tragic saga for the family of these two poor girls.

[ttelise]

I guess having unknown causes of deaths in hotels as opposed to a cause (even if murdered) does wonders for the tourist industry.

Murders are forgotten fairly quickly (especially when you can pin it on anyone you like as many believe is easy to do here) but mystery deaths drag on a very long time in the press.

Not when the authorities seemingly blame victims such as partying (consumption of shrooms) or drinking and taking drugs (Mortin) . . . They do just enough to cast doubt to protect the all mighty baht.

Besides a family losing two young daughters at the same time, the thing that pisses me off is you and the Thai authorities keep making all this stuff about toursim (GREED). That is just bs. Who cares about tourism. The word toursim should not even play a role or be utterred.

My old law firm represented hotel chains and upscale hotels. We had murders, rapes and deaths at these hotels and never once have I ever seen anything to suggest a cover up. We had to defend civil suits in most of these. Cops and foresnics always had cause of death. No bs about will this or won't this effect our business.

I am sorry, but the Thai system of worry first about GREED and second about life is bunk and you apparently have been there long enough to buy into and accept it.

Edited June 28, 2012 by ttelise

[cdnski12]

I am always amazed how causually farangs gobble down potentially contaminated food in Thailand, where refrigeration is marginal at best. Admittedly, I eat seafood salad sometimes when I am atThai beaches. I know that I'm taking a risk. I usually just have a few beers. The food should be cooked to be safe. There is a poisonous "Red Tide" (algae) which is endemic along the N/W Coast of N America, usually during spring time. It produces similar symptoms. There are many algaes world wide. Some are highly poisonous.

[Thai at Heart]

No suprise there, Chiang Mai Downtown Inn all over again. No known cause of death can't harm tourism. No need to hunt down the porgugese guys then now as they have no idea how these poor girls died.

You should see another publication from cnx lauds the owner of downtown inn as some kind of economic savior

[britmaveric]

Tourists will keep coming to Phi Phi anyone who thinks differently is in dream land. Shame about the deaths but life goes on and this ultimately will end up as forum fodder when next unexplained death occurs.

[ttelise]

Tourists will keep coming to Phi Phi anyone who thinks differently is in dream land. Shame about the deaths but life goes on and this ultimately will end up as forum fodder when next unexplained death occurs.

Yep, meaningless forum fodder, unless of course it is your daughters that turn up dead.

[Nisa]

Tourists will keep coming to Phi Phi anyone who thinks differently is in dream land. Shame about the deaths but life goes on and this ultimately will end up as forum fodder when next unexplained death occurs.

Yep, meaningless forum fodder, unless of course it is your daughters that turn up dead.

I can't think of anything less helpful to the parents than reading the posts here ... not one thing I recall having read on this thread that would be the least bit helpful or comforting to them, including my posts.

[PoodMaiDai]

Of course it was inclusive........what else would they possibly say?? This was a forgone conclusion. All we can do is wait for the results of the Canadian autopsy to hear the truth. You almost have to get a laugh out of the expertise of the Thais performing the autopsy . A poison so powerful it drops two healthy girls in their tracks, and yet they cannot find what it was.....

This is turning into an exact repeat of the Chiang Mai deaths. Absolutely pathetic.....

I think the government pretty well has the angles covered. Declare their own autopsy results as inconclusive. If the Canadian autopsy cannot find anything due to the fact that Thailand embalmed the body as well as decomposition, then case closed. If Canada comes up with a poison, then Thailand can declare it must have been done by the Portuguese men who have left. Case closed , and tourism can get back to normal...

Although given the deaths that have occurred in hotel rooms in Phi Phi, I am not sure why anyone in their right mind would go there..

And when Canada says what it is, Thailand will say they are wrong.

[Hellhound66]

Tourists will keep coming to Phi Phi anyone who thinks differently is in dream land. Shame about the deaths but life goes on and this ultimately will end up as forum fodder when next unexplained death occurs.

Yep, meaningless forum fodder, unless of course it is your daughters that turn up dead.

I can't think of anything less helpful to the parents than reading the posts here ... not one thing I recall having read on this thread that would be the least bit helpful or comforting to them, including my posts.

Actually you have always been very fair with your postings. Unfortunately, Rohypnol, GHB and Ketamine have a window of circa 72 hours before they vanish -poof -never to be seen again. This case is over. Even if they did find something there is no way they can pin it on anybody. Did you spike the girls drinks? No! End of story. I feel very sorry for the parents but the 47 hours it took to realise that there was something wrong and "possibly" the lack of initiative to interview the people allegedly involved before they scarpered points 100% to no definitive outcome. The Canadians are autopsying embalmed bodies although they may have tissue samples which they specifically asked for but if the Thais found nothing then the Canadians will not either.

Are the Thai authorities to blame here? - I don't believe so. If you don't have a cause of death how can you hold anyone or ask them pertinent questions until the cause of death is known. By the time the bodies got to Bangkok for autopsy it would have already been 5 days.

The hotel is not without blame -47 hours of not calling the room or checking up on the guests is a huge error on their part -even if there was a DND posted.

My heart goes out to the Belanger family.

[Bender]

thailand is a huge farce. Nothing more, nothing less than an a depressing joke.

[redroo]

The room and the beds should allso be tested for poison.

[softgeorge]

I will be very surprised if the results of the independent autopsies being conducted in Montreal, come back inconclusive. It sounds very odd to have two people just drop dead at the same time in such a horrible way, leaving no trace of what might have killed them. My condolences to the family.

It is not odd in Thailand, Think back to Chiangmai where 7 just dropped dead in thier rooms, autopsies inconclusive and all just written off as "COINCIDENCE"

[softgeorge]

Of course it was inclusive........what else would they possibly say?? This was a forgone conclusion. All we can do is wait for the results of the Canadian autopsy to hear the truth. You almost have to get a laugh out of the expertise of the Thais performing the autopsy . A poison so powerful it drops two healthy girls in their tracks, and yet they cannot find what it was.....

This is turning into an exact repeat of the Chiang Mai deaths. Absolutely pathetic.....

I think the government pretty well has the angles covered. Declare their own autopsy results as inconclusive. If the Canadian autopsy cannot find anything due to the fact that Thailand embalmed the body as well as decomposition, then case closed. If Canada comes up with a poison, then Thailand can declare it must have been done by the Portuguese men who have left. Case closed , and tourism can get back to normal...

Although given the deaths that have occurred in hotel rooms in Phi Phi, I am not sure why anyone in their right mind would go there..

And when Canada says what it is, Thailand will say they are wrong.

exactly

[webfact]

PHI PHI ISLAND

Autopsy result for Canadian sisters due next week

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Bangkok's Ramathibodhi Hospital director said the autopsy results for the two Canadian sisters who were found mysteriously dead on Phi Phi Island should be released next week.

Despite confirming that the tissue samples had already been tested and results submitted to the Institute of Forensic Medicine at Police General Hospital, Dr Surasak Leelaudomlipi refused to elaborate because this is an ongoing case and the relatives of the deceased women wanted to keep to keep things confidential.

Audrey and Noemi Belanger, both in their 20s, were found dead at the Palm Residence Hotel on June 15.

-- The Nation 2012-06-29

[apetley]

Will be interesting to see if the results now scheduled to be released next week are as inconclusive as Krabi police seems to think.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

[kanderson]

very disrespectful language - sorta like "flaming" in any case.

"Dude, you are one messed up soul. You must be the loneliest, most desprate old geiser on here"

[Bluespunk]

Inconclusive or inconvenient?

[lujanit]

The results are inconclusive because the Thai's want them to be inconclusive. After all the tourism industry might suffer if the cause was found to be local incompetence or worse. Shocker!!!!

The bodies were embalmed in an attempt to prevent the true cause of death being known although tissue and hair samples may prove otherwise. Were the Canadians prevented from taking samples prior to embalming? If so, why?

The Portuguese guy is just a red herring. He is not Thai, enough said.

The cops here have no interest in the matter because there is no money in it for them. I say this because I know personally that the cops in Phuket have no interest in investigating anything in which they cannot make money.

Now all please bow down and make merit to the almighty God of money

Edit: my typing

Edited June 29, 2012 by lujanit