Old Expats In Thailand - Possible Hell On Earth?

[jamescollister]

Was back in OZ a few years ago, friend of mine, 2 years younger then me. He was thinking of taking early retirement and moving here, but had read all the horror stories and kept putting it off so as to make more money just to be safe. Died last year, 2 houses and would have had a good pension if he had live to see it.

Worry about today, tomorrow will take care of itself. Don't get any brownie points for being the riches man in the graveyard. Jim

I completely agree, but you can have a good life here without buying land and houses.

Renting is very cheap, and many very nice Thai ladies already have their own properties ......

OK so you spend a little to put in a nice shower and toilet, and some proper furniture.

But when you get to the state of giving your lady money for land, and not keeping enough in your bank for your visa extension ....... beyond daft.

Everyone is free do do as they like with their money. Last year on a similar thread one guy said he would rather go home in a box rich, than fly cattle class broke. I've been broke many a time, but life goes on. Take a chance or play safe, we make a choice everyday, whether to spend money or get on that death trap motorbike, all you can hope for is as much fun as possible before they put you in the ground.

An interesting life is not found in a bank balance. Jim

[Mario2008]

1 post deleted, see post 59.

[dksharron]

You are forward planning.

1. Do not get married

2. Do not stay here based on a marriage visa (then he will not be dependent on anyone)

3. Do not buy a house in a wife's name. Condos are OK instead.

4. If a pension is not large enough to support him, then he should be working longer in his own country, or not live here.

Basically, we are all here on extended tourist visas, regardless of what they are called. No form of visa really gives us any more rights here than another. No one has a residency permit. A small number have applied and received Thai citizenship. I am not really familiar with anything between a visa to stay here for a limited number of days, and citizenship.

A few of the problems which you noted were based on difficulties in a marriage and on a lack of money. I see both of these problems happening in the West as well. I also see a way to avoid at least some of them by not being married and not buying a house in a wife's name.

I have met many people who do not do anything for work here, and they are not financially able to retire, but are simply spending time here, and when they have run out of money, or while they are running out of money, blame it on Thailand. They, for the most part, cannot do anything here for work, nor do they wish to learn the language, or or or...

The OP notes that Thais are allowed to do everything in many other countries, and another thing they do is learn to speak, read and write the language.

The world has changed a lot in the past 25 years since I first came here, and Thailand has as well. A blue collar worker who had saved a little money, owned a house, and had a small pension used to be able to come here and retire in style. NO LONGER!!!

We aint as well-to-do as we used to be!

What percentage of Thai people graduated from high school or college in 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000, 2010? The percentage keeps increasing, as does their productivity, as does their income. This means those of us who live here must pay more and more for everything, as they as employees are better and better paid, and also we have more competition for goods and services from these better paid employees. This is called development. Also, our Western currencies are depreciating for many reasons, but it is not the Thai's fault, nor their responsibility to keep a certain exchange rate.

The future is not looking good for Joe America or Joe(insert Western country) for a joyful retirement here on his pension. He will be able to purchase a lot less goods and services in the future than he believes. He will need to work longer, save and invest more, AND not get married and especially not buy a house for his wife or depend on her for a visa.

[dude007]

Well, my vision was to live somewhere upcountry when I would be old and without any income, and not have to worry about some 90 day reporting or renewing of the visa every year. Oh dear, I will have to find another country for this dream then, Burma here I come

Farang the 90 day reporting is the scourge of living there unfortunately.

Have a look at Malaysia, they are more welcoming! If your google "retirement in Malaysia" loads of info available.

I would strongly recommend the same. Start from the idea and the thought that you are nowhere welcome as a "farang" here in this part of the world, but keep in mind that the country who is expressing this the most through their rules and regulations is for sure THAILAND! Racist at 100% and all annoyances with a "Thai smile".

Luckily, I have NOT a Thai wife and stay on a retirement visa (much better and friendly in Phuket than in Bangkok), carefuling keeping both options open: my house in Europe and my residences in BKK and Phuket. Can't be safe enough. The last that I trust is the Thai Government!

Also for my medical care, I don't trust these amaat-doctors anymore: way too expensive and no guarantee for any improvement. First question "Do you have an insurance", which answer has immediate impact on your bill by a factor 2...

[ezadventurer]

I find this very unfair and worrying, especially when Thais are accepted in other countries with the same rights as the residents when they decide to live abroad and have a family there. Is Thailand a racist country then? I think it is

I think you have made one mistake on your comparison between Thailand and other countries. I would argue that Thailand treats old, poor farangs about the same as old, poor Thais; don't expect much government assistance if you can get any at all. Perhaps others here can provide more concrete answers, but most old Thais without money have a retirement plan that is called family. If you don't have money or family, then I would guess when you cannot take care of yourself that you will have major problems. For those with a good wife, my only concern would be if something untoward happens to your spouse such as death or serious illness as well. Who will take care of you then? If you don't have children that you have raised, then you will be at the mercy of the extended family. Your relationship with them and their values should be an important part of your decision and plan to stay here into old age.

[crocken]

I had such a neighbor.

His temporary (64 years something) pension was around 20k Baht.

He smoked 80 cigs/day and drank at least 10 bottles of Chang/day.

Had a GF with 10 year youg girl (not his)

No visa, avoided MIB.

Was not living in hell.

When his last days were obvious GF wanted him treated at private hospital although he had no cash.

Farangs obliged and promised to collect funds to pay his hospital bill.

That never materialized.

5 days later private hospital moved him to government hospital where he died a few hours later.

No one cared after that, only his GF was left with the private hospital bill.

His corpse remained in the fridge for months, but I guess he did not care

that is a sad story and i have seen the same thing happen in Sakon nakhon ...normally other farangs come to the ladies help...still very sad.

[wooly]

Billd766 Judging by all the horror stories I have read, and heard first hand, I would say you are one of the very lucky few. Long may it continue - but I hope to Ch*** your wife doesn't read your post and get ideas. :-)

falang07 - As to the prospect of old age IMHO I would suggest a bit of in-depth research and planning while you still,hopefully, have lots of time to prepare. Its a bit like eating chicken soup "Will it do me any good? Well it can't hurt!" Always a good idea to have a Plan B up your sleeve.

[holm]

If the farang house is in the thai wifes name, it is possible on the Land department to make a note on the Land Deed that you can stay in the house the rest of your life. The she cannot sell it because nobody will buy a house where you have to sta too.. You have to sign on Land Department if she try to sell.

Make a lawyer set it up. I have my property in that way

[TinoThailand]

Would they be any better off back in their home counties, old, poor, sick and homeless. Seen some guys buried around Issan that have not done a visa in over 7 years. One didn't even have a current passport.

And of course the other option, just drink yourself to death. Jim

Homeless back in my home country I would not survive 1 winter.. Well I think

[Gladiator]

Falang 07

May in be that impersonal and rude to ask how old you are?

Gladiator

[topt]

If the farang house is in the thai wifes name, it is possible on the Land department to make a note on the Land Deed that you can stay in the house the rest of your life. The she cannot sell it because nobody will buy a house where you have to sta too.. You have to sign on Land Department if she try to sell.

Make a lawyer set it up. I have my property in that way

I think you are referring to a Usufruct - which if done correctly supposedly gives you the right to live in said abode until your death?

[wooly]

If the farang house is in the thai wifes name, it is possible on the Land department to make a note on the Land Deed that you can stay in the house the rest of your life. The she cannot sell it because nobody will buy a house where you have to sta too.. You have to sign on Land Department if she try to sell.

Make a lawyer set it up. I have my property in that way

Excuse my scepticism; but do you really think that would work - legal or not. Naturally for your sake I hope that it would. Please do not overlook the fact that you are, presumably - a foreigner in Thailand. I've learned that there are two words in this country which don't work very well together, especially when used in a sentence regarding a legal dispute. They are Thailand and falang.

[lostinisaan]

I know a few foreigners holding different nationalities living in this wonderful country for many years.

​All of them are around 70 and not in a good situation.

​MOST of them are without any insurance and an expensive operation would be impossible for them.

​I've visited some at village hospitals, health care and hygienic circumstances unbelievable. They're in big rooms where almost every day a patient died. Not something I'd like to experience, to be honest.

The only reason that they don't go back is that they wouldn't have anything or anybody back home.

Most of them can't eat Thai food, even after 20 years living here. Most of them can't even order a noodle soup using Thai, when alone.

Most of them built big houses, bought cars and bikes and more. But now their wives are wealthy.

I see many of them just paying good money for a better nurse. Majority of them who'd produced kids being around 60 aren't happy fathers, nor the kids seem to have a good relationship with their daddies.

When those older men go to school meetings, all others are talking about the boy/girl with his/her grandfather.

Some of them had heart attacks, because they wanted to improve their sexuality using chemical help.

To answer the OP's question:

It seems to very difficult to live a happy life here when you're older. This is just my own opinion and shouldn't bother anybody else.

[Gary A]

I love my Thai wife and I do trust her ............ BUT, I still have my Thai bank account and my US bank accounts in my own name. My condo in Jomtien was purchased before we got married and is in my name. My pickup truck is also in my name. Trust is one thing but blind stupid trust is another thing.

What would happen if my wife should die before I do? Why would I subject my financial well being to her family?

She does have the PIN number to my Thai bank account and she can get that money from the ATM if I am not able or if I should pass away unexpectedly.

[holm]

Excuse my scepticism; but do you really think that would work - legal or not. Naturally for your sake I hope that it would. Please do not overlook the fact that you are, presumably - a foreigner in Thailand. I've learned that there are two words in this country which don't work very well together, especially when used in a sentence regarding a legal dispute. They are Thailand and falang.

My lawyer told me and made it. Later our Land Deed was stolen, and I talked with them on the Land Department and they confirmed when we got the new, that it is legal and I have to sign when the property has to be sold.

[billd766]

Billd766 Judging by all the horror stories I have read, and heard first hand, I would say you are one of the very lucky few. Long may it continue - but I hope to Ch*** your wife doesn't read your post and get ideas. :-)

falang07 - As to the prospect of old age IMHO I would suggest a bit of in-depth research and planning while you still,hopefully, have lots of time to prepare. Its a bit like eating chicken soup "Will it do me any good? Well it can't hurt!" Always a good idea to have a Plan B up your sleeve.

There ARE a lot of horror storeis around but there are many more people than me who aren't in one and if a "good family thread" gets opened it usualled gets trahsed on the first page which is why most lucky guys dont post here.

I have known quite a few friends over the years in Thailand and of the 15 or so marriages only perhaps 3 have failed. Maybe because they moved back to the husbands country, perhaps because a few like me live up country and not in the farang ghettos of Payyaya or Phuket, others perhaps because they were a bit older than their wives and are more tolerant, some because of their wives, children and their extended families.

I don't thing there is any one reason why some are luckier than others.

Many posters warn to live as far as you can from your wives families as they will be forever a millstone around your neck.

Each to their own as my mother in law is a nice old stick a year younger than me and she lives in a small house that we built with something along those lines about 20 metres from the back of our house and she is no problem. My father in law still lives in BKK at Bang Na keeping an eye on his grandchildren and when he quits that he is ALWAYS welcome here..

I suppose families, wives and in laws are much the same the world over. It's like playing darts or the lottery, you pay your money and make your choice.

Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't.

[smotherb]

Would they be any better off back in their home counties, old, poor, sick and homeless. Seen some guys buried around Issan that have not done a visa in over 7 years. One didn't even have a current passport.

And of course the other option, just drink yourself to death. Jim

or just marry another nice or not so nice Thai wife

[peterdes]

I fit that profile mostly.

I am 68, married to a Thai with a dual nationality son, house and everything except my motorbikes registered in my wifes name.

I am on a retirement visa extension and not a marriage one. got enough pension monet to keep me going unless the GBP drops to 35 or so.

So far after 19 years of knowing my wife, 12 years of marriage, 8 years of our son I read this post.

Thank you for your concern but speaking for myself I don't have any worries or problems that I can see in the future.

Quite frankly I have had a great life and a good 19 years relationship with my Thai wife and if it all ended tomorrow I would wish her all the best for her future life with our son who I would dearly miss, pack my bags and move along.

Unlike a few posters on TVF I came into the marriage knowing that I would not be legally able to own much and one of the things I did in my marriage was to ensure that my wife would be well looked after and have a reasonably comfortable life.

I am aware that when I was born many years ago I came into the world with nothing and was surrounded by my parents and my brothers love.

My parents are long dead though my brother is still alive and the love is now the love of my family.

I am also aware that when I die if I only have 10 baht and nowhere to live or a gazillion baht, 20 houses, 50 cars and anything else I want in the world, sure as sh1t when I die I can't take it with me but I can take the love of my family.

What is worth the most?

Very well said.

This is for everybody, look behind and think about when you have seen your wife or girlfriend. They have something special. Ones you are connected, this feeling will never go away.

I complete agree with the above

I lost my daughter last year , 21 years old.

There is nothing left in live that can change my mind of not staying in Thailand

Good day to all and please enjoy live without to meany arguments .

Peter

[TommoPhysicist]

There ARE a lot of horror storeis around but there are many more people than me who aren't in one and if a "good family thread" gets opened it usualled gets trahsed on the first page which is why most lucky guys dont post here.

..............................

Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't.

Very optimistic post ...... and yet, in another thread you admit to not having enough money left in the bank to renew your extension of stay.

Looking back, with that fact in mind, was it really such a good idea to build that house and pay for that land?

Oh, but you believe in an open and honest relationship ..... the kind where you say 'Darling, I have 800k in a Thai bank' ...... and then she goes on and on and on until you weaken and let her spend it. So much for honesty, eh!

Edited July 1, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[a99az]

Now that you understand the problems you could face here in the future I guess you will make a wise choice before you commit and not fall into the Fly Thai trap.

[smotherb]

You seem to have a negative attitude to life when in reality life is good so make the best of it that you can while you are here.

I actually have a very positive attitude to life.

Life here is good, and I am positive that my planning will continue ensuring that my life is good.

Those who give all their money away to a woman .......... they go home unhappy (eventually).

But in two posts, you alluded to personally knowing of 11 unfortunates who like yourself, were financially hosed in some way or another by their chosen female partner. The odds on that are akin to personally knowing the last 11 Formula 1 Champions. Is it a hobby that keeps you in touch with the similarly scotched, jaded, bitter and twisted?

What a non-equitable analogy you draw. You are equating the numbers of us who know formula 1 champions to the number of us married to a foreign woman and getting hosed. I submit no such mathmatical equalivalence can possibly exist. I know no formula 1 champion and do not even know anyone who does. However, after 45 years of living in Souotheast Asia, I know dozens of men married to Thais, Filipinas, Vietnamese and, yes, even married to their own home country women who have been duped and lost everything. The only difference is in your home country you have some rights. So why don't we just marry our own? Why? Think of the consequences of having to wake-up every morning . . . . . ah, I digress.

Are so many men just plain stupid? Well, in truth, that could be it, because no doubt, some are. However, I believe there is a more physiological explanation having to do with possession of the world famous 'marvelous product'--you know, the one you have, but you can sell, and you still have it.

[SICHONSTEVE]

1) A foreigner buying a house in his wifes name is against the law, do it and you deserve all you get.

2) A sensible foreigner keeps 800k in a hidden bank account for use in a marital emergency.

Quite frankly I have had a great life and a good 19 years relationship with my Thai wife and if it all ended tomorrow I would wish her all the best for her future life with our son who I would dearly miss, pack my bags and move along.

Unlike a few posters on TVF I came into the marriage knowing that I would not be legally able to own much and of the things I did in my marriage was to ensure that my wife would be well looked after and have a reasonably comfortable life.

An extremely sensible outlook on living in Thailand.

I didnt buy my wife a house at all.She had some land up here in the countryside and I gave her the money to buy the land next door.

I paid for the house etc and also for another plot of land that she owns up the road a bit.

Where is it against the law for my wife to own a house and land in her name?

It isn't mine it belongs to my wife and son

If I give her the money to do so and sign it off at the amphur that it was her money it is HER house and land not mine.

We have a joint bank account in Thailand and she can see how much is there at any time she wants.

Also a sensible man who loves and trusts his wife has no need of a hidden bank account.

I have no secrets from my wife and indeed why should I?

It seems from many of your posts you do not trust your wife.

I and many friends who have married Thais don't have this problem.

My sentiments precisely!!!!

[Suradit69]

If he is really that poor then he could potter along here on ed visas or border runs or whatever, until he gets ill but then he would have to clear off back home pretty sharpish if he wanted subsidised/free health care.

Thailand is fine if you have money, even if you're old and not well, but it is not a country in which I would choose to be poor and ill.

Being (relatively) old and having had one serious illness I can say I am far happier here than I would be back in the US. I received /am receiving excellent medical treatment from BHP. I do own my own condo and have comprehensive medical coverage. As Darrel said, if you're poor and expect charitable medical treatment, you'd probably be better off in your home country where you would probably have access to help.

Thais are not racist, but they have had unfortunate experiences with farang who don't inspire much trust. Unlike some people on TV I don't expect everyone in Thailand to love me, but I have found good Thai friends upon who I can depend for help if needed. As would be true anywhere, friendship and trust develop over time and can't be bought in a bar.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Suradit69

[KrabiMan]

@Tommo - Foreigners may have a house registered in their own name, however they may not own the land underneath the house. Many foreigners will put the house in their name and secure the land via a Long Term Lease on the land which gives them the right to live there. Once the foriegner passes away, the land reverts back to the Thai wife.

[TommoPhysicist]

@Tommo - Foreigners may have a house registered in their own name, however they may not own the land underneath the house. Many foreigners will put the house in their name and secure the land via a Long Term Lease on the land which gives them the right to live there. Once the foriegner passes away, the land reverts back to the Thai wife.

And yet

In one of my examples of loss a Devonshire lady had her lease destroyed by the Land Office after a bribe was paid by the landowner.

In another example my Manchurian pal can't do anything with a property he has a 26 years of lease remaining, because nobody would buy a leasehold of less than 30 years, and the landowner refuses to budge (as is his right).

If you own something (a lease) that you can't sell and nobody would buy ...... do you really own it?

PS

Longest I ever lived in a house was 10 years. So what good would a 30 year lease, that nobody would buy with 20 years remaining, be to me?

Edited July 1, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[jamescollister]

@Tommo - Foreigners may have a house registered in their own name, however they may not own the land underneath the house. Many foreigners will put the house in their name and secure the land via a Long Term Lease on the land which gives them the right to live there. Once the foriegner passes away, the land reverts back to the Thai wife.

And yet

In one of my examples of loss a Devonshire lady had her lease destroyed by the Land Office after a bribe was paid by the landowner.

In another example my Manchurian pal can't do anything with a property he has a 26 years of lease remaining, because nobody would buy a leasehold of less than 30 years, and the landowner refuses to budge (as is his right).

If you own something (a lease) that you can't sell and nobody would buy ...... do you really own it?

PS

Longest I ever lived in a house was 10 years. So what good would a 30 year lease, that nobody would buy with 20 years remaining, be to me?

If you are married and buy/build a house, all the bits of paper [leases etc ] are worthless, , Who gets what will be decided by the family court, just like in the west. Jim

[TommoPhysicist]

@Tommo - Foreigners may have a house registered in their own name, however they may not own the land underneath the house. Many foreigners will put the house in their name and secure the land via a Long Term Lease on the land which gives them the right to live there. Once the foriegner passes away, the land reverts back to the Thai wife.

And yet

In one of my examples of loss a Devonshire lady had her lease destroyed by the Land Office after a bribe was paid by the landowner.

In another example my Manchurian pal can't do anything with a property he has a 26 years of lease remaining, because nobody would buy a leasehold of less than 30 years, and the landowner refuses to budge (as is his right).

If you own something (a lease) that you can't sell and nobody would buy ...... do you really own it?

PS

Longest I ever lived in a house was 10 years. So what good would a 30 year lease, that nobody would buy with 20 years remaining, be to me?

If you are married and buy/build a house, all the bits of paper [leases etc ] are worthless, , Who gets what will be decided by the family court, just like in the west. Jim

So there you go, better to rent and keep your cash secret and hidden.

Family court (world over) can't dispense what it doesn't know exists.

[blazes]

This is one of the most depressing threads I have ever read on ThaiVisa.

I have had several Thai girlfriends, all of them lovely pooying, who were not gold diggers, and some very frugal indeed, to the point of being miserly (even if I were the beneficiary of their frugal natures).

But reading all these responses makes me hesitate even more over marriage. I come and go from Thailand, so am not one of those living here 12 months of the year, but it seems to me that a farang is much better off becoming like a Thai guy and just hiring a gik, whom he can meet once or twice a week, give her an agreed sum of money, and live alone the rest of the time. Cheaper than committing your whole fortune to one pooying.....and if things go wrong, you are on the next plane to wherever.....

[RBOP]

60s to 70s is not old. It all depends how you feel about yourself and your health. Its a lot cheaper here to go to the hospital than western countries. Enjoy your retirement.

[TommoPhysicist]

I have had several Thai girlfriends, all of them lovely pooying, who were not gold diggers, and some very frugal indeed, to the point of being miserly (even if I were the beneficiary of their frugal natures).

But reading all these responses makes me hesitate even more over marriage. I come and go from Thailand, so am not one of those living here 12 months of the year, but it seems to me that a farang is much better off becoming like a Thai guy and just hiring a gik, whom he can meet once or twice a week, give her an agreed sum of money, and live alone the rest of the time. Cheaper than committing your whole fortune to one pooying.....and if things go wrong, you are on the next plane to wherever.....

Don't let it put you off, you can have the time of your life and a great marriage/relationship/family/children here.

Just don't buy anything you can't carry or drive away, and don't leave your life savings on the bedside table.

How hard can that be?

Edited July 1, 2012 by TommoPhysicist