Staying Alive At Any Price?

[soi41]

Saw on another thread about the quality of life of old people in Thailand, someone mentioning the importance of good healthcare after the age of 75. Made me think, that if you had a good and hopefully exciting life for 75 years, why is it so important to prolong it for another 5-10 years at big costs both economically and quality of life wise?

I have just turned 60, still healthy, had a life like most of us, with its ups and downs. Quite content with my situation, but if I should get seriously ill tomorrow, I would not be afraid to die. Ofcourse I hope I will live for another many years, but should that not be in my cards, I would think back of the good times in my life and let nature have its course. Rather that than surviving and living a not dignified life.

Your thoughts?

[Trembly]

Quality, not quantity!

[giddyup]

If by "letting nature take it's course" meant a long slow agonising death, I'd be thinking about alternatives. When do you make the decision that you no longer want any kind of medical care or treatment to preserve your life? I was recently diagnosed with high blood pressure (I'm nearly 70) and am now on medication which has brought it back to normal. Should I have refused medication and taken the chance of heart attack or stroke? After all, I am prolonging my life by taking medication.

[soi41]

If by "letting nature take it's course" meant a long slow agonising death, I'd be thinking about alternatives. When do you make the decision that you no longer want any kind of medical care or treatment to preserve your life? I was recently diagnosed with high blood pressure (I'm nearly 70) and am now on medication which has brought it back to normal. Should I have refused medication and taken the chance of heart attack or stroke? After all, I am prolonging my life by taking medication.

Sorry, maybe I was not clear enough. Ofcourse I take painkillers when needed. Just like you should take your bloodpressure medication. I was more thinking about situations you became dependant on other people to live your daily life.

[Darrel]

"....if I should get seriously ill tomorrow, I would not be afraid to die."

You're not. I'm not. But many are terrified. I have no idea why. And I dont see why getting ill has anything to do with it; we are all going to go sometime, sooner or later, suddenly or agonisingly slowly, and I am ready for it today no matter how it comes.

And life is surprisingly tenacious even for those who accept that it will end. My mother, a firm believer in life-after-death and reincarnation, was sure that she was going to recover from generalised cancer enough to get out of bed and move around with a portable oxygen bottle. She didn't, but she didnt die for another 2 months in spite of not eating and being on morphine for much of that time.

[giddyup]

If by "letting nature take it's course" meant a long slow agonising death, I'd be thinking about alternatives. When do you make the decision that you no longer want any kind of medical care or treatment to preserve your life? I was recently diagnosed with high blood pressure (I'm nearly 70) and am now on medication which has brought it back to normal. Should I have refused medication and taken the chance of heart attack or stroke? After all, I am prolonging my life by taking medication.

Sorry, maybe I was not clear enough. Ofcourse I take painkillers when needed. Just like you should take your bloodpressure medication. I was more thinking about situations you became dependant on other people to live your daily life.

I agree with you there. Nothing could be worse that being bed-ridden and totally dependant on other people for your every need. I just hope that I would have the guts to avoid this if it happened to me.

[giddyup]

"....if I should get seriously ill tomorrow, I would not be afraid to die."

You're not. I'm not. But many are terrified. I have no idea why. And I dont see why getting ill has anything to do with it; we are all going to go sometime, sooner or later, suddenly or agonisingly slowly, and I am ready for it today no matter how it comes.

And life is surprisingly tenacious even for those who accept that it will end. My mother, a firm believer in life-after-death and reincarnation, was sure that she was going to recover from generalised cancer enough to get out of bed and move around with a portable oxygen bottle. She didn't, but she didnt die for another 2 months in spite of not eating and being on morphine for much of that time.

As Woody Allen said "I'm not afraid of death, I just don't want to be there when it happens". Even though death is inevitable, it's still the fear of the unknown. Somebody put it rather well when they said, "you didn't worry about what you were before you were born, so why worry about what you will be after you die".

[dick turpin]

Think by residing in Thailand you stand a very

good chance of not dying through natural causes

or old age.....

[Gary A]

I'm also one of those people who are not afraid to die. What I am afraid of is being a vegetable or facing a long painful lingering death. Hopefully I will have some advance warning.

I have no idea about life after death and I am not a religious person. If there is an afterlife, good, if not, why worry about it, we certainly can't change that. It's all about quality of life and a quick painless end when it is time.

[StreetCowboy]

If by "letting nature take it's course" meant a long slow agonising death, I'd be thinking about alternatives. When do you make the decision that you no longer want any kind of medical care or treatment to preserve your life? I was recently diagnosed with high blood pressure (I'm nearly 70) and am now on medication which has brought it back to normal. Should I have refused medication and taken the chance of heart attack or stroke? After all, I am prolonging my life by taking medication.

Sorry, maybe I was not clear enough. Ofcourse I take painkillers when needed. Just like you should take your bloodpressure medication. I was more thinking about situations you became dependant on other people to live your daily life.

I know what you mean - when you can no longer grow your own food, or generate your own electricity, or develop your own operating system, and your dependent on others for your medical treatment whenever you have an accident, and on others to provide you with light and air conditioning.

I was OK relying on God to provide the sunlight and the moon, but now, when I rely on others even for the basic needs of getting back to see the family every couple of weeks...

I suppose it depends on what level of dependency we are willing to accept. Of course, most of us draw the line at incompetent bumbling senility, but unfortunately, the minority who don't are disproportionately represented amongst the bumblingly senile. My dear old gradmother said "Oh, I hope I never end up like that" long after it became ironic

SC

SC

[pattayadingo]

I'm also one of those people who are not afraid to die. What I am afraid of is being a vegetable or facing a long painful lingering death. Hopefully I will have some advance warning.

I have no idea about life after death and I am not a religious person. If there is an afterlife, good, if not, why worry about it, we certainly can't change that. It's all about quality of life and a quick painless end when it is time.

Cannot disagree with this.

[TommoPhysicist]

For the first 50 years my life in the UK was worthless tedium.

My last 5 years in Thailand have made the whole thing worthwhile, if I die tomorrow, no problem.

(But another 5 years like the last 5 would be really good)

[Ron19]

I'm also one of those people who are not afraid to die. What I am afraid of is being a vegetable or facing a long painful lingering death. Hopefully I will have some advance warning.

I have no idea about life after death and I am not a religious person. If there is an afterlife, good, if not, why worry about it, we certainly can't change that. It's all about quality of life and a quick painless end when it is time.

Cannot disagree with this.

Same Same!

[brit1984]

This is an amazing world and I want to stay here for as long as possible.

I don't mind (and would probably prefer) if someone else wipes my bum.

[isanbirder]

A friend of mine in Chiangmai (some of you may have known him) had to have both his legs amputated. Subsequently, further medical complications resulted in him having to be castrated.... and then he went blind. But he still clung to life. Finally, mercifully, he died. Another friend of his said he hadn't been able to eat, and looked like somebody from Belsen.

At his funeral, the crematorium attendant asked me if I would like to have a last look at him. God forbid!

What quality of life did he have? What would I have done in similar circumstances? The answer is, I think I would rather have died.... but would I?

[Pacificperson]

I had a dog put down not too long ago. The vet agreed that in this case it was for the best as there was no hope.

My thought was that it was sad that when I am in the same position, there will be no one to do the same for me.

[Ulysses G.]

I guess that I am the only one who is afraid to die, but, most likely, I am not going to have a choice in the matter anyway.

[Beetlejuice]

DEPRESSING.

Next.

[geriatrickid]

I do not want to die. As stressful as my life can be, I have worked too hard to just say, mmkay, I'm crippled or incapacitated and I'm just going to toss the towel in and float away.......

I have obligations to some furry critters and I know that as long as I am breathing that I am doing some good for others.Perhaps some people are not in that position, or would be unwilling to fight for life. That's their personal choice, not mine. On the other hand, if I was a vegetable, I have no problem with the plug being pulled as I wouldn't want to spend my remaining days with tubes stuck in me, on life support, incapacitated. However, Mr. Death is going to have to fight it out with me in oher situations.I know that even with terminal cancer, there are painful actions I can take to prolong my life a few months or years. I will do it. I worked hard to put money aside for such a situation. That extra time will allow me to close things off and put my affairs in order. Besides, I want to keep living just to piss off those who want my money. Better yet, when I die and the critters get my money, I'll have the last laugh. On the other hand, if I am run down by an idiot driver, I'll never know, so who cares......

Edited July 6, 2012 by geriatrickid

[WebBangkok]

Wifes Grand father passed away about 3 weeks ago, the bloke was 97 years old.

Before he passed, he couldnt eat anything and I wanted to take him to the hospital.

His reponse in Thai "Dont let him take me to the hospital, I am too old"

I have to admit, I was thinking <deleted> at first, but then thought, well he is pretty f@#king old, I guess he can't be f@#ked to live anymore.

I am thinking, if I make 80, I will probably want to pull the plug too.

[Darrel]

.... Mr. Death is going to have to fight it out with me in oher situations.I know that even with terminal cancer, there are painful actions I can take to prolong my life a few months or years. I will do it.

Have you ever seen someone die slowly, knowing that nothing can be done?

I have, twice.

When my time comes (and please God/Buddha/whatever let me be run down by a bus rather than contract some awful wasting disease) I will not hang on for one minute more than necessary.

[soi41]

I do not want to die. As stressful as my life can be, I have worked too hard to just say, mmkay, I'm crippled or incapacitated and I'm just going to toss the towel in and float away.......

I have obligations to some furry critters and I know that as long as I am breathing that I am doing some good for others.Perhaps some people are not in that position, or would be unwilling to fight for life. That's their personal choice, not mine. On the other hand, if I was a vegetable, I have no problem with the plug being pulled as I wouldn't want to spend my remaining days with tubes stuck in me, on life support, incapacitated. However, Mr. Death is going to have to fight it out with me in oher situations.I know that even with terminal cancer, there are painful actions I can take to prolong my life a few months or years. I will do it. I worked hard to put money aside for such a situation. That extra time will allow me to close things off and put my affairs in order. Besides, I want to keep living just to piss off those who want my money. Better yet, when I die and the critters get my money, I'll have the last laugh. On the other hand, if I am run down by an idiot driver, I'll never know, so who cares......

What you are descriping here was somehow, what I had in mind when I started this thread. If diagnosed with terminal cancer, I would try keep my self painfree for as long as possible and when that is not doable anymore, I'll drink my "Mexican medicine" and hopefully while waiting for it to work, think about all the good times I have had. I know it is very easy to say while still healthy, but that is my plan.

I mentioned the content of this thread to my wife, and she knows my position on this. After thinking about it for about 10 secs it came: "but who is going to feed the dogs?" Talking about having a pragmatic attitude towards death.

[transam]

I do not want to die. As stressful as my life can be, I have worked too hard to just say, mmkay, I'm crippled or incapacitated and I'm just going to toss the towel in and float away.......

I have obligations to some furry critters and I know that as long as I am breathing that I am doing some good for others.Perhaps some people are not in that position, or would be unwilling to fight for life. That's their personal choice, not mine. On the other hand, if I was a vegetable, I have no problem with the plug being pulled as I wouldn't want to spend my remaining days with tubes stuck in me, on life support, incapacitated. However, Mr. Death is going to have to fight it out with me in oher situations.I know that even with terminal cancer, there are painful actions I can take to prolong my life a few months or years. I will do it. I worked hard to put money aside for such a situation. That extra time will allow me to close things off and put my affairs in order. Besides, I want to keep living just to piss off those who want my money. Better yet, when I die and the critters get my money, I'll have the last laugh. On the other hand, if I am run down by an idiot driver, I'll never know, so who cares......

BUT, why should money come into any of life's equations. ?

[StreetCowboy]

I do not want to die. As stressful as my life can be, I have worked too hard to just say, mmkay, I'm crippled or incapacitated and I'm just going to toss the towel in and float away.......

I have obligations to some furry critters and I know that as long as I am breathing that I am doing some good for others.Perhaps some people are not in that position, or would be unwilling to fight for life. That's their personal choice, not mine. On the other hand, if I was a vegetable, I have no problem with the plug being pulled as I wouldn't want to spend my remaining days with tubes stuck in me, on life support, incapacitated. However, Mr. Death is going to have to fight it out with me in oher situations.I know that even with terminal cancer, there are painful actions I can take to prolong my life a few months or years. I will do it. I worked hard to put money aside for such a situation. That extra time will allow me to close things off and put my affairs in order. Besides, I want to keep living just to piss off those who want my money. Better yet, when I die and the critters get my money, I'll have the last laugh. On the other hand, if I am run down by an idiot driver, I'll never know, so who cares......

BUT, why should money come into any of life's equations. ?

Its important to some people.

I suppose they use it as a yardstick by which to measure themselves, in the absence of other values; or perhaps it is a substitute for other religions that you and I might deem more spiritual; I don't know. But it does seem to be important to a lot of people on this forum. Some of them view it like virginity, and believe that if you can avoid paying for sex, you're as pure as a virgin. Others seem to see it as the obverse of sex. Anyway, it seems to be important to a lot of people on this forum.

Its important to me. I use it to pay for my children's education, and also for various other, more ephemeral pleasures. THough at the end of the day, it is only an 'exchange particle' that allows me to trade labour for those things, with the advantage of being able to be stored (well, not in my case, but other people seem to...)

GKid seems to want ot use it as a means to posthumously vent his spleen against his relatives, and no doubt his anticipation of that may accelerate its occurrence.

Anyway, to get back on topic; I am sure we all of us do not want to live a long and glorious senility of bumbling and incontinent imcompetent insensibility, but it is putting a big burden on those around us to judge when that threshold is reached, if we are no longer able to make that judgement for ourselves, nor able to perform the necessary concluding measures, so perhaps it would be prudent and courteous to forego a couple of good years, for the benefit of those around us, and to avoid a lasting distasteful memory.

SC

Edited July 6, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[transam]

I do not want to die. As stressful as my life can be, I have worked too hard to just say, mmkay, I'm crippled or incapacitated and I'm just going to toss the towel in and float away.......

I have obligations to some furry critters and I know that as long as I am breathing that I am doing some good for others.Perhaps some people are not in that position, or would be unwilling to fight for life. That's their personal choice, not mine. On the other hand, if I was a vegetable, I have no problem with the plug being pulled as I wouldn't want to spend my remaining days with tubes stuck in me, on life support, incapacitated. However, Mr. Death is going to have to fight it out with me in oher situations.I know that even with terminal cancer, there are painful actions I can take to prolong my life a few months or years. I will do it. I worked hard to put money aside for such a situation. That extra time will allow me to close things off and put my affairs in order. Besides, I want to keep living just to piss off those who want my money. Better yet, when I die and the critters get my money, I'll have the last laugh. On the other hand, if I am run down by an idiot driver, I'll never know, so who cares......

BUT, why should money come into any of life's equations. ?

Its important to some people.

I suppose they use it as a yardstick by which to measure themselves, in the absence of other values; or perhaps it is a substitute for other religions that you and I might deem more spiritual; I don't know. But it does seem to be important to a lot of people on this forum. Some of them view it like virginity, and believe that if you can avoid paying for sex, you're as pure as a virgin. Others seem to see it as the obverse of sex. Anyway, it seems to be important to a lot of people on this forum.

Its important to me. I use it to pay for my children's education, and also for various other, more ephemeral pleasures. Though at the end of the day, it is only an 'exchange particle' that allows me to trade labour for those things, with the advantage of being able to be stored (well, not in my case, but other people seem to...)

GKid seems to want to use it as a means to posthumously vent his spleen against his relatives, and no doubt his anticipation of that may accelerate its occurrence.

Anyway, to get back on topic; I am sure we all of us do not want to live a long and glorious senility of bumbling and incontinent incompetent insensibility, but it is putting a big burden on those around us to judge when that threshold is reached, if we are no longer able to make that judgment for ourselves, nor able to perform the necessary concluding measures, so perhaps it would be prudent and courteous to forgo a couple of good years, for the benefit of those around us, and to avoid a lasting distasteful memory.

SC

Weeeeeeeeeeeeell, l shall read your post another, three times , BUT, l do understand it, really.

[trainman34014]

Don't think about death; it will come in its own good time. Think about living and enjoy every moment that you have left. The old addage ''Every man dies, not every man really lives'' comes to mind.

[notmyself]

Somebody put it rather well when they said, "you didn't worry about what you were before you were born, so why worry about what you will be after you die".

Mr. Clemens was once asked whether he feared death. He said that he did not, in view of the fact that he had been dead for billions and billions of years before he was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.

Attributed to Mark Twain.

Edited July 6, 2012 by notmyself

[theblether]

[impulse]

BUT, why should money come into any of life's equations. ?

Its important to some people.

I suppose they use it as a yardstick by which to measure themselves, in the absence of other values; or perhaps it is a substitute for other religions that you and I might deem more spiritual; I don't know. But it does seem to be important to a lot of people on this forum. Some of them view it like virginity, and believe that if you can avoid paying for sex, you're as pure as a virgin. Others seem to see it as the obverse of sex. Anyway, it seems to be important to a lot of people on this forum.

Money is a lot like sex and food. Those who have plenty don't often dwell on it.

Try going without for a few months and see if it doesn't become extremely important....

I'm with the OP, once it's clear that my quality of life is not acceptable and won't be improving, I'd prefer it to be over. Especially if I become a financial burden on my loved ones.

And any American that thinks they have enough money, insurance, annuities and assets to prevent becoming a burden is probably fooling themselves- health care in the USA can drain even a very impressive portfolio long before the bills quit piling up.

If you've got a few $$$ billion stashed away, you're probably okay. Heck, even a few $$$ million would probably make it okay- but not 100% secure.

I can't speak for the citizens of more advanced countries with universal health care...

Edited July 7, 2012 by impulse

[Ulysses G.]

I can't speak for the citizens of more advanced countries with universal health care...

You mean the countries that are on the verge of bankruptcy because of entitlements?