Stock-Futures Commission Trading Fees-Who Is Lower?

[how241]

I have a stock-futures trading account with Kasikorn. It seems like the commission fees are VERY high, especially for the futures trading. Has anyone compared commission fees with Siam Bank(SCB) or KrungSri bank ? Are they all about the same ? If you trade often, those commission fees really add up fast. I am mainly interested in a local Thailand trading account. Thanks for any info.

[fletchsmile]

I have an account with KGI. Very happy with their service and platforms. I mainly trade SET50 options rather than futures. Their commission rates including futures are listed on the following link. These exclude VAT so you need to add on 7%.

http://www.kgieworld..._Commission.asp

Do you have a link for all Kasikorn's commissions? I'd be particularly interested in the SET50 options. The commissions mount up on these too so would be nice to get an idea of what others are charging.

[how241]

I have an account with KGI. Very happy with their service and platforms. I mainly trade SET50 options rather than futures. Their commission rates including futures are listed on the following link. These exclude VAT so you need to add on 7%.

http://www.kgieworld..._Commission.asp

Do you have a link for all Kasikorn's commissions? I'd be particularly interested in the SET50 options. The commissions mount up on these too so would be nice to get an idea of what others are charging.

Here is a link to Kasikorns fees. It might not open for a non-customer.

https://we45.settrade.com/brokerpage/011/St...tivescomeng.pdf

[how241]

I have an account with KGI. Very happy with their service and platforms. I mainly trade SET50 options rather than futures. Their commission rates including futures are listed on the following link. These exclude VAT so you need to add on 7%.

http://www.kgieworld..._Commission.asp

Do you have a link for all Kasikorn's commissions? I'd be particularly interested in the SET50 options. The commissions mount up on these too so would be nice to get an idea of what others are charging.

Here is a link to Kasikorns fees. It might not open for a non-customer.

https://we45.settrad...tivescomeng.pdf

Thanks for your info. It looks like the fees are almost the same as your account with KGI,

if I am reading their fee schedule correctly. As I am new to this I would appreciate your feedback on the fee comparisions. Thanks

[fletchsmile]

Yes they look very similar, and virtually the same on most things for individual customers. The main diff is that Kasikorn lists the exchange fees separately, so you need to add 2 columns, whereas KGI has the exchange fees included in the price.

I recall a few years back they passed some legislation standardising commission fees on many things, but didn't think it was this close.

On indices: the SET50 options contract are 82.39 per contract if no discount. The SET50 futures are about 5 times that. Given that the options are 200 baht per index point and futures 1,000 baht per index point I guess that's not unexpected.

The fees on normal SET stocks at around 0.25% are not unreasonable.

[how241]

Yes they look very similar, and virtually the same on most things for individual customers. The main diff is that Kasikorn lists the exchange fees separately, so you need to add 2 columns, whereas KGI has the exchange fees included in the price.

I recall a few years back they passed some legislation standardising commission fees on many things, but didn't think it was this close.

On indices: the SET50 options contract are 82.39 per contract if no discount. The SET50 futures are about 5 times that. Given that the options are 200 baht per index point and futures 1,000 baht per index point I guess that's not unexpected.

The fees on normal SET stocks at around 0.25% are not unreasonable.

Thanks for your time in looking in to this. Although I was hoping to find somewhere with a lower prices, it's good to know that I am not over-paying. As I am new to this I can't comment on the trading platform but Kasikorn's seems to work OK for me. Thanks again.

[fletchsmile]

You're welcome.

Have you come across "OneClick" software by "Settrade"? This has some useful stuff on it. I think it is available to various brokers in addition to their own software. You have to download it, and sign in thru your broker. I found it by accident, and when I downloaded it, it asks for your broker so I assume it is also available to other brokers.

It has a lot of useful info and tools on it to supplement the brokers/KGI's own trading platform. For me I find it very useful as it shows theoretical values of options as well as all the greeks. It also has info on stocks. It automatically accesses your live trades/ portfolio. Only works on internet explorer. Attached is the manual - there's only a Thai version. Most of it is reasonably intuitive tho' and you can just click on various menus and see what happens. I trade thru KGI's own software, but this is a useful add-on for info.

[how241]

You're welcome.

Have you come across "OneClick" software by "Settrade"? This has some useful stuff on it. I think it is available to various brokers in addition to their own software. You have to download it, and sign in thru your broker. I found it by accident, and when I downloaded it, it asks for your broker so I assume it is also available to other brokers.

It has a lot of useful info and tools on it to supplement the brokers/KGI's own trading platform. For me I find it very useful as it shows theoretical values of options as well as all the greeks. It also has info on stocks. It automatically accesses your live trades/ portfolio. Only works on internet explorer. Attached is the manual - there's only a Thai version. Most of it is reasonably intuitive tho' and you can just click on various menus and see what happens. I trade thru KGI's own software, but this is a useful add-on for info.

Thanks for that. I'll take a look at it, maybe my g/f can translate it.

[emsfeld]

The Futures round trip costs are ridiculously expensive. How can they expect any retail flow with fees that high? I don't understand as equities commissions are quite reasonable.

[how241]

The Futures round trip costs are ridiculously expensive. How can they expect any retail flow with fees that high? I don't understand as equities commissions are quite reasonable.

I agree with you. Unless you hold and wait for a big profit, many times the commissions eat up 25% or more of the profits. Another problem with the futures is that they don't trade so much so there can be a lack of liquidity. The Set50 and Gold seem to trade a lot but the stock futures are quiet.

[how241]

The Futures round trip costs are ridiculously expensive. How can they expect any retail flow with fees that high? I don't understand as equities commissions are quite reasonable.

I am only quessing that the futures commissions are so high because the total Baht amount involved is so much higher then when you trade stocks, due to the margin leverage.

[emsfeld]

I am only quessing that the futures commissions are so high because the total Baht amount involved is so much higher then when you trade stocks, due to the margin leverage.

Not sure. The contract multiplier for the eg ES is $50 so the notional much higher than for the SET50 Futures. Like you say, you'd have to make at least four ticks to break even on your position (that is if the commissions are on a per roundturn basis which I doubt - I think they're per side). Probably more on average as I doubt there's only a one tick spread (have never looked at SET50 Futures data so wouldnt know). Seems really feasible to trade only if you're managing a large® portfolio for hedging purposes. What's the average spread of this market? Wouldn't be surprised if around about 3 ticks or more.

[how241]

I am only quessing that the futures commissions are so high because the total Baht amount involved is so much higher then when you trade stocks, due to the margin leverage.

Not sure. The contract multiplier for the eg ES is $50 so the notional much higher than for the SET50 Futures. Like you say, you'd have to make at least four ticks to break even on your position (that is if the commissions are on a per roundturn basis which I doubt - I think they're per side). Probably more on average as I doubt there's only a one tick spread (have never looked at SET50 Futures data so wouldnt know). Seems really feasible to trade only if you're managing a large® portfolio for hedging purposes. What's the average spread of this market? Wouldn't be surprised if around about 3 ticks or more.

Those commission prices are for one way trades. The Set50 jumps around quickly but the spread is usually close, 1-3 ticks The gold futures are usually 10-20 baht spread, 1-2 ticks.

[emsfeld]

Thanks for the info. Oh well - I've looked into trading Thai markets 2-3 years ago and refrained from doing so. Main reason for me was (and still is) that there's no broker offering APIs for automated trading. At least I couldn't find any.

[how241]

Thanks for the info. Oh well - I've looked into trading Thai markets 2-3 years ago and refrained from doing so. Main reason for me was (and still is) that there's no broker offering APIs for automated trading. At least I couldn't find any.

As I said before I'm new to this. What are APIs ?? Thanks

[emsfeld]

This doesnt matter to you if you're trading discretionarily. I am no good at discretionary trading so prefer automated trading. API is a very general term but in a trading context it just means a programming model that abstracts away the broker's messaging protocol for automated execution and status updates of your orders (ie order acceptance, fills, cancels,...).

[how241]

This doesnt matter to you if you're trading discretionarily. I am no good at discretionary trading so prefer automated trading. API is a very general term but in a trading context it just means a programming model that abstracts away the broker's messaging protocol for automated execution and status updates of your orders (ie order acceptance, fills, cancels,...).

I think it is strange that through Kasikorn futures trading, you can't place a "good until cancelled" order....All orders cancel at the end of the day so you have to keep replacing them.

[emsfeld]

Do they charge fees for submission as well or only if you get filled? I am not familiar with the brokers in TH really (pretty much stopped spending any more time on it after I found I couldn't trade the way I'd like to). We have an account here (well my fiance has really) and she just does medium term trades all executed at market. It's been going well for her so far.

[how241]

Do they charge fees for submission as well or only if you get filled? I am not familiar with the brokers in TH really (pretty much stopped spending any more time on it after I found I couldn't trade the way I'd like to). We have an account here (well my fiance has really) and she just does medium term trades all executed at market. It's been going well for her so far.

No charge to place orders, only a fee if the order is filled. I only use "Limit" orders as sometimes "Market" orders can get filled at undesireable prices.