Are There Any Experienced Gym Goers Out There?

[bonobo]

OK, time to put on my moderator hat.

Let's get off the insults and flames and back to the topic, OK?

[eek]

To be honest i really like how you start it off but then you mess it up with 100 reps on a rowing machine.. that is maybe 5 minutes of rowing.. not much at all you barely get into motion and rythm and you need to stop again.

After all that cardio you do a few weight exercises.. real minimum and not even compound exercises.. not much use in my opinion.

Then disproportionally amount of abb exersise (probably from the idea that you can burn fat locally).

Id put a much larger part of weight lifting in the program with some compound exercises.

Plus i would rotate exercise as musles need to rest too.

I'd cut out all the stretching too, although as an ex-ballet dancer I understand that would be a hard habit to break.

Tropo, why would you cut out stretching???? Pretty confused by that one!

http://www.nytimes.c.../112pewarm.html

just read eek

Great reading, thank you. LIke the technique described, but video isnt working for me, so will look up on youtube.

I never stretch prior to jogging then sprinting..but i do stretch afterwards. OR, if im heading to yoga after, i do jogging/sprinting, then weights, then an hour of yoga.

Do you think this is actually a bad idea (the yoga)?

(sorry to ask this in your thread P, but imagine its useful info for you too!)

(Thanks also Tropo and Bonobo)

[eek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djDqDDQl-Y4&feature=related

(Dont want to veer this too off topic, but in this other "dynamic stretching" technique video..the girl in the backgrounds really bad squats does my nut in. lol.

)

[robblok]

@eek

Eek to be honest i have no opinion on this. I just warm up and let the stretching be. I can't imagine yoga is that bad but if it stretching like they describe in the article that it cant be too good.

[tropo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djDqDDQl-Y4&feature=related

(Dont want to veer this too off topic, but in this other "dynamic stretching" technique video..the girl in the backgrounds really bad squats does my nut in. lol.

)

I just don't see the point of doing endless warmup stretches and miscellaneous movements to prepare for a different movement. Why not just start out on the exercise you're going to perform. Start with some light high rep sets and get the muscles, tendons and joints ready for exactly what they're going to do. I would consider all the rest a total waste of time.

I prepare the whole body by doing a 10 minute row. It gets everything ready and warmed up and I start each individual movement with light weights for a few pump sets. There's just not enough time in a workout to be performing endless sets for no real benefit. You can do some of the dynamic movements in between sets if you must, when you're recovering for the next set.

[MaxwellsDemon]

I just don't see the point of doing endless warmup stretches and miscellaneous movements to prepare for a different movement. Why not just start out on the exercise you're going to perform. Start with some light high rep sets and get the muscles, tendons and joints ready for exactly what they're going to do. I would consider all the rest a total waste of time.

I would say that with dynamic stretching you're also warming up some of the peripheral supporting muscles that aren't the focus of the exercise but still play a role. The light resistance of stretching makes sure that more muscles get warmed up evenly, instead of just the main muscles for an exercise. Also helpful if you lose balance/control they're ready to back you up.

[tropo]

I just don't see the point of doing endless warmup stretches and miscellaneous movements to prepare for a different movement. Why not just start out on the exercise you're going to perform. Start with some light high rep sets and get the muscles, tendons and joints ready for exactly what they're going to do. I would consider all the rest a total waste of time.

I would say that with dynamic stretching you're also warming up some of the peripheral supporting muscles that aren't the focus of the exercise but still play a role. The light resistance of stretching makes sure that more muscles get warmed up evenly, instead of just the main muscles for an exercise. Also helpful if you lose balance/control they're ready to back you up.

It comes down to a matter of time vs benefit. You may reap some benefit, but it's time consuming and there are more worthwhile things to do with your time. The body is just not as fragile as people seem to think. Would you stretch and warmup to go walking somewhere? No, you'd just start walking.

[Tolley]

I like the way i feel after doing a good weights session. You feel king of the hill when you have done a hard session.

Simalarly i love the buzz you get after a tough squash game.

I have also done Bikram yoga classes and you feel absolutely sensational after one of these sessions.

You feel differently after each of these exercise activities but the main thing is you feel really good on a natural high.

My biggest motivator is my own sef esteem. I dont want to get lazy and fat. And most importantly I dont want to be in the hands of doctors and on a pill merry go round because i was too lazy or slack to take care of my own health.

After I've blasted my body to the extreme I feel exhausted. I leave all my energy in the gym.

I certainly don't suffer from exercise "natural highs" after workouts. I go home to relax, eat and recover.

I couldn't do that. The "natural high" is my motivation.....

If you dont feel good after exercising what is the point?

[transam]

I just don't see the point of doing endless warmup stretches and miscellaneous movements to prepare for a different movement. Why not just start out on the exercise you're going to perform. Start with some light high rep sets and get the muscles, tendons and joints ready for exactly what they're going to do. I would consider all the rest a total waste of time.

I would say that with dynamic stretching you're also warming up some of the peripheral supporting muscles that aren't the focus of the exercise but still play a role. The light resistance of stretching makes sure that more muscles get warmed up evenly, instead of just the main muscles for an exercise. Also helpful if you lose balance/control they're ready to back you up.

It comes down to a matter of time vs benefit. You may reap some benefit, but it's time consuming and there are more worthwhile things to do with your time. The body is just not as fragile as people seem to think. Would you stretch and warmup to go walking somewhere? No, you'd just start walking.

Wrong information which will/might cause injury.

[tropo]

Wrong information which will/might cause injury.

Actually the static stretching will cause injuries because you're stretching the connective tissue, which has poor blood circulation, especially when cold.

When you get to the gym, do 10 - 15 minutes on a cardio machine, get the whole body warmed up and start your routine. Rowing is the best warmup exercise of all because it warms up the entire body.

Rather than just come on here and suggest information is wrong, why don't you give us a compelling reason to stretch before a workout. I never stretch before workouts - ever, and I train injury free. Having said that, I'm one of the most fastidious "warmer uppers" you'll ever see in the gym and I start my exercises super light for high reps before I start using heavier resistance.

[tropo]

If you dont feel good after exercising what is the point?

I train to develop my physique - that's the point. How I feel after a session is not important, but I train hard and leave my energy in the gym and expect to be tired after.

If you need to always feel good after exercise, join an aerobic class or walk in the park. You won't see much change in your physique, but you'll feel ok.

If I was only interested in feeling good, I'd stick with swimming. It's refreshing, good exercise and there's little risk of injury.

Edited July 16, 2012 by tropo

[jennyuc]

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[Tolley]

If you dont feel good after exercising what is the point?

I train to develop my physique - that's the point. How I feel after a session is not important, but I train hard and leave my energy in the gym and expect to be tired after.

If you need to always feel good after exercise, join an aerobic class or walk in the park. You won't see much change in your physique, but you'll feel ok.

If I was only interested in feeling good, I'd stick with swimming. It's refreshing, good exercise and there's little risk of injury.

Believe it or not tropo you can get a good physique and feel good after exercise as well. The two are not mutually exclusive.

You seem to be of the school that thinks that you need to suffer to get anything good in life.

Anyway I doubt you realise that you feel better after a hard workout because you have become accustomed to the feeling.

I am sure if you stop exercising for a period you will feel differently about it.

[tropo]

Believe it or not tropo you can get a good physique and feel good after exercise as well. The two are not mutually exclusive.

You seem to be of the school that thinks that you need to suffer to get anything good in life.

Anyway I doubt you realise that you feel better after a hard workout because you have become accustomed to the feeling.

I am sure if you stop exercising for a period you will feel differently about it.

Yes, you are right, you can develop a good physique without pushing yourself to the extreme. It just depends on what level of physique you want to achieve. That's a personal choice.

I want extreme muscularity at low bodyfat. That's not going to come without sacrifices. I have to maintain a certain diet and exercise at an optimal level. A quick glance around the gym tells me my sacrifices are paying off. I'm not suffering actually - training hard gives me a lot of personal satisfaction, especially at my age.

I didn't exercise for 7 months last year. I know the difference. To be honest, the best I felt was when I undertook an intensive swimming program 5 years ago.

The point of my post was really to say that there is still a point to exercise, even if you don't feel "high" after every workout.

Edited July 16, 2012 by tropo

[transam]

Wrong information which will/might cause injury.

Actually the static stretching will cause injuries because you're stretching the connective tissue, which has poor blood circulation, especially when cold.

When you get to the gym, do 10 - 15 minutes on a cardio machine, get the whole body warmed up and start your routine. Rowing is the best warmup exercise of all because it warms up the entire body.

Rather than just come on here and suggest information is wrong, why don't you give us a compelling reason to stretch before a workout. I never stretch before workouts - ever, and I train injury free. Having said that, I'm one of the most fastidious "warmer uppers" you'll ever see in the gym and I start my exercises super light for high reps before I start using heavier resistance.

Think you stated something about warm up for walking. Hmmmmmm, crap.

Near 40 years ago l was taught to stretch, get blood circulating in the muscles we don't use in daily life to reduce the risk of pulling a ligament. Thats the key to safe training, get stuff supplied.

EVERY ''body'' is different and needs to take care. YOU have stated that like me your an old timer that is used to exertion but the OP is not. Please don't look at stuff from your particular angle.

[robblok]

Wrong information which will/might cause injury.

Actually the static stretching will cause injuries because you're stretching the connective tissue, which has poor blood circulation, especially when cold.

When you get to the gym, do 10 - 15 minutes on a cardio machine, get the whole body warmed up and start your routine. Rowing is the best warmup exercise of all because it warms up the entire body.

Rather than just come on here and suggest information is wrong, why don't you give us a compelling reason to stretch before a workout. I never stretch before workouts - ever, and I train injury free. Having said that, I'm one of the most fastidious "warmer uppers" you'll ever see in the gym and I start my exercises super light for high reps before I start using heavier resistance.

Think you stated something about warm up for walking. Hmmmmmm, crap.

Near 40 years ago l was taught to stretch, get blood circulating in the muscles we don't use in daily life to reduce the risk of pulling a ligament. Thats the key to safe training, get stuff supplied.

EVERY ''body'' is different and needs to take care. YOU have stated that like me your an old timer that is used to exertion but the OP is not. Please don't look at stuff from your particular angle.

Your data is a bit old.. its now proven that streching can be bad. There is a new sort of streching that helps better. Just read the article that was posted. New things are thought of every day things constantly change.

[bonobo]

Not to beat a dead horse here, but I always stretched before any exercise. This is what I was taught to do before my high school sports, and I just took it as gospel. But current research indicates that this is not a good idea. And just because I have done it for years does not mean I am stuck in a time warp.

I do warm up though. My first exercise is usually the bench press, and I lift the bar alone from various angles and from slow to a quick pace. I then add two 45 lb plates and do a slow set of 10 before adding plates and going to whatever bench routine I have planned for the day. After that, I move onto whatever else is on the day's schedule.

I always end with a stiff ride on a recumbent bike.

I am not sure if my warm up is adequate or doing any good, but mentally, at least, it helps me get ready.

[bonobo]

Great reading, thank you. LIke the technique described, but video isnt working for me, so will look up on youtube.

I never stretch prior to jogging then sprinting..but i do stretch afterwards. OR, if im heading to yoga after, i do jogging/sprinting, then weights, then an hour of yoga.

Do you think this is actually a bad idea (the yoga)?

(sorry to ask this in your thread P, but imagine its useful info for you too!)

(Thanks also Tropo and Bonobo)

You might want to do your weights first, then your cardio. That has shown to increase weight loss over cardio first, then weights.

Yoga for an hour can be quite beneficial. Certain types of yoga can improve fitness level, but all types can reduce stress.

[tropo]

Think you stated something about warm up for walking. Hmmmmmm, crap.

Near 40 years ago l was taught to stretch, get blood circulating in the muscles we don't use in daily life to reduce the risk of pulling a ligament. Thats the key to safe training, get stuff supplied.

EVERY ''body'' is different and needs to take care. YOU have stated that like me your an old timer that is used to exertion but the OP is not. Please don't look at stuff from your particular angle.

OK, so you'll still training with exactly the same ideas that someone taught you 40 years ago. I threw away those ideas years ago when I realized, through personal experience and research that they were in need of revision.

Regarding your "hmmmm crap" retort do my comment about warming up to walk. I stated clearly that no one would and I wasn't suggesting that anyone should.

Regarding your comment about looking at "stuff from your particular angle". If you believe static stretching is important to prevent injury, then at 50+ it would obviously be even more important to stretch, wouldn't it....especially considering that people normally get more stiff as they age. Also, as an experienced trainer I'm using more weight than a novice, so why should my angle be different in terms of your stretching theory. It should be even more important, shouldn't it?

But no, I don't do static stretching - I warm up very well and move into my heavier resistance training very carefully. I do some light dynamic stretching between sets to take some of the tension off the working muscles. I have other tricks too, but I won't go into those here as we're already getting a bit side-tracked.

Edited July 16, 2012 by tropo

[MaxwellsDemon]

I just don't see the point of doing endless warmup stretches and miscellaneous movements to prepare for a different movement. Why not just start out on the exercise you're going to perform. Start with some light high rep sets and get the muscles, tendons and joints ready for exactly what they're going to do. I would consider all the rest a total waste of time.

I would say that with dynamic stretching you're also warming up some of the peripheral supporting muscles that aren't the focus of the exercise but still play a role. The light resistance of stretching makes sure that more muscles get warmed up evenly, instead of just the main muscles for an exercise. Also helpful if you lose balance/control they're ready to back you up.

It comes down to a matter of time vs benefit. You may reap some benefit, but it's time consuming and there are more worthwhile things to do with your time. The body is just not as fragile as people seem to think. Would you stretch and warmup to go walking somewhere? No, you'd just start walking.

When you wake up at morning, do you just get up and go?

[tropo]

When you wake up at morning, do you just get up and go?

Yes. Sometimes I get on the rowing machine which I have at home and knock out 60 minutes straight up. No stretching at all - just start off slowly and build up the intensity.

What do you do? Static stretching?

[mrbiggwigg]

There is no real evidence for the benefit of stretching prior to a workout. There is however a great benefit to 15-20 cardio prior to heavy weights.

Edited July 17, 2012 by mrbiggwigg

[Tolley]

I never do any stretching before i do a gym session.

I definitely warm up before i play squash thou. You shouldnt really cold stretch but first jog on the spot , do some practice swings etc til your body is a bit warm and then stretch. So yeah cold stretching is not good but if you warm the body up a bit first then you should stretch especially if you are playing a very high intensity sport/

I also stretch after a game and that is even more important as it stops your muscles getting too stiff. I think it has to do with lactic acid build up.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Tolley

[MaxwellsDemon]

When you wake up at morning, do you just get up and go?

Yes. Sometimes I get on the rowing machine which I have at home and knock out 60 minutes straight up. No stretching at all - just start off slowly and build up the intensity.

What do you do? Static stretching?

That sounds awful. Yes, I do, like every animal does when it wakes up.

[robblok]

When you wake up at morning, do you just get up and go?

Yes. Sometimes I get on the rowing machine which I have at home and knock out 60 minutes straight up. No stretching at all - just start off slowly and build up the intensity.

What do you do? Static stretching?

That sounds awful. Yes, I do, like every animal does when it wakes up.

Actually I just start rowing too slowly and building it up. Why stretching for something like that. Just like the article said static stretching can be dangerous.

I had to do some rowing this morning but unfortunately i overslept and time has run out. Maybe illhave a go at it tonight.

[robblok]

There is no real evidence for the benefit of stretching prior to a workout. There is however a great benefit to 15-20 cardio prior to heavy weights.

To be honest i just started doing cardio before weight sessions. I had a exercise bike before but seldom went on it. But once i got the rower i use it in the morning for a fasted cardio session (not because i believe in it but because it just easier to do time wise). Then in the evenings that i lift i do a 10-15 min row too to warm up a bit.

[mrbiggwigg]

http://www.running-training-tips.com/stretching.html

"No conclusive statements can be made about the relationship of flexibility to athletic injury"

[eek]

Great reading, thank you. LIke the technique described, but video isnt working for me, so will look up on youtube.

I never stretch prior to jogging then sprinting..but i do stretch afterwards. OR, if im heading to yoga after, i do jogging/sprinting, then weights, then an hour of yoga.

Do you think this is actually a bad idea (the yoga)?

(sorry to ask this in your thread P, but imagine its useful info for you too!)

(Thanks also Tropo and Bonobo)

You might want to do your weights first, then your cardio. That has shown to increase weight loss over cardio first, then weights.

Yoga for an hour can be quite beneficial. Certain types of yoga can improve fitness level, but all types can reduce stress.

There is no real evidence for the benefit of stretching prior to a workout. There is however a great benefit to 15-20 cardio prior to heavy weights.

So better to do cardio prior to weights or vice-versa? What would be more benificial and why guys? Can you expand please?

[robblok]

Great reading, thank you. LIke the technique described, but video isnt working for me, so will look up on youtube.

I never stretch prior to jogging then sprinting..but i do stretch afterwards. OR, if im heading to yoga after, i do jogging/sprinting, then weights, then an hour of yoga.

Do you think this is actually a bad idea (the yoga)?

(sorry to ask this in your thread P, but imagine its useful info for you too!)

(Thanks also Tropo and Bonobo)

You might want to do your weights first, then your cardio. That has shown to increase weight loss over cardio first, then weights.

Yoga for an hour can be quite beneficial. Certain types of yoga can improve fitness level, but all types can reduce stress.

There is no real evidence for the benefit of stretching prior to a workout. There is however a great benefit to 15-20 cardio prior to heavy weights.

So better to do cardio prior to weights or vice-versa? What would be more benificial and why guys? Can you expand please?

Eek first off, there is cardio for weight loss and cardio to warm up. They are not the same. I would always start with a bit of cardio.

Then Bonobo is right about doing cardio after weights because then in general your glycocen is depleted and you have a higher chance of burning fat.

So start off with 10-15 minutes of cardio (part of the warmup), then weights and then cardio (how long you want it) to burn fat. But as you see this will be a long workout then.

[mrbiggwigg]

http://primallifter.com/how-to-warm-up-before-weight-training/

Everywhere I look serious weight lifters do a small amount of cardio before weights:)

Also too much stretching has been known to cause internal warts.