12 Month Student Visa No Longer Available (New Immigration Department Policy)

[Schnitzel]

I do not think it has anything to do with the Immigration departments

checking web forums and noticing that people are abusing this. If this

was the case, getting tourist visa would not be so easy in so many

neighbouring countries.

IMO it is one of two things, they want to make more money from this

type of visa or they want to implement a way to ensure those on an

ED visa actually go to school and learn Thai

Think this is not the problem of because farangs want to stay loooong time and spend all their money in the country.

Look at other nations example philipines, they come to Thailand for illegal working and this ED Visa gives them a good and cheap possibility to stay long term without having to pay for expensive flights. BTW They have to show up every day at work.

The immi allready cut down the former one year ED visa to 3 months, so you have to show up every 90 days and make your 1900 Baht support.

My friend told me he went to language school and as he went to immi they asked a couple of questions and wanted to visit the school the next week. Next week 17 Students (phillys he never saw before) showed up at the school for their regular lessons and they didn't even have enough chairs for everybody in the small classroom..

I think that's what they don't like

[thaifamilyguy]

Dear Phronesis,

Thanks for your very detailed reporting, I think you need to just put on a serious filter and ignore all the replies not on point. I believe there are sufficient number of resonable persons that use this forum that you will get some value.

I was reviewing this as my children are on educational visas at an international school w/my wife getting a dependant visa off of that. I travel quite a bit for work so the 30 day limit has never been a problem. So it all works for us. I appears rather clearly that our scenario will not be effected, there is a very long tradition of such international schools for "safe harbor" family placements going waaay back.

But as to your position, it woudl appear to me that Thailand appears to be trending the way of other countries that use to be friendlly to expats having "informal" residency, use to be able to get a one year multiple entry visa into China 10 years ago just on knowing the right person, those days are long gone and China is now really closing its doors. Part nationalism part misplaced belief that the expats are taking away local's oppportunities.

In Thailand, I would not be at all surprised to see an effective effort to kill off the nominee companies holding property, etc. gthis has been my focus as really I would rather own a place here than pay rent, but I have yet to see a situation where buying makes sence adn the condo options are really way over priced and marketed to those that do not know any better.

Thus I would recomend that you stay very flexible to ride out your situatioon to retirement. It may be matter of relocating in Thailand, or giving another location in Thailand a go, or if you could pick up some sort of legit job, perhaps teaching english?

In the meantime I appreciate your postings as they are clearly well sourced. best of luck

[solentstu]

My thai GF has just got off the phone to the immigration office in Phuket who have told her that there are no changes to the ED visa and that its business as usual

[Phronesis]

I spoke with the owner of my Language school again yesterday. Nothing has been heard back from Immigration at this point.

[solentstu]

Spoke with both my language school and immigration in phuket this morning. Both said pretty much the same thing in that yes there was a meeting last week to discuss this but the belief is that there will be no changes to the current length of visa. There may be changes in terms of the school having to report addentance figures to immigration and/or some form of test. Nothing that would pose any issue to those of us that use the visa correctly.

[MILT]

Because of the mass abuse of this visa, they really should stop it altogether. Given up counting the amount of people that talk about having an ED Visa and never attending a college. Its a money spinner for the schools and its unfair to those of us that have gone through he correct channels to process our appropriate visas. Get rid of it!

It's amazing the degree of mean-spiritedness coming mostly by foreigners against other foreigners on this forum. Happily, the wonderful Thai immigration authorities are in practice MUCH more reasonable. The ED visa used according the rules IS a totally proper, totally legitimate visa. It's very offensive to suggest otherwise.

So what you are saying is that you know countless people abusing the ED visa? Let's see and the schools who are making money by teaching (whatever) are abusing the laws? Having a legit visa I don't feel any unfairness happening. So don't speak for me. You are speaking for yourself. To each his own right? Thai immigration are just enforcing the laws that have been in place already. You feel like because you suffered the rules and the time it took to be given a visa to stay in Thailand that everyone should? If I take the time and effort to hunt and kill my dinner, then everyone should hunt and kill their dinner's? I hope that you never read that your legit visa (whatever it is) is now void because some zealot Thai immigration head decided that to many people were abusing that particular visa.

If Immigration enforces their laws that would cdertainaly have an impact on the dirty scoundrels abusing the system, but to "get rid of it" is a tiny bit extreme even by my standards.

[Phronesis]

Move along...nothing to see here...

Spoke again with the owner of my language school today.

A call was received earlier to advise there would be no changes.

Thanks to those that made some positive contributions to this thread.

To the many others that stormed along with manic self indulgent rants about girlie bars and eastern Europeans...you were way off the mark.

Hmmm...what rhymes with bee honey...

Edited July 25, 2012 by Phronesis

[Dolgure]

Bigass phoney?

[rgs2001uk]

Move along...nothing to see here...

Spoke again with the owner of my language school today.

A call was received earlier to advise there would be no changes.

Thanks to those that made some positive contributions to this thread.

To the many others that stormed along with manic self indulgent rants about girlie bars and eastern Europeans...you were way off the mark.

Hmmm...what rhymes with bee honey...

"Hmmm...what rhymes with bee honey..."

No idea, seeing as you are the one studying the language perhaps you could tell us what rhymes with nam peung.

Why am I reminded of "the big fish eats the small fish"?

Immigration should start doing these interviews in Thai.

Never see these Ed visa folks posting on the language forum.

[Dolgure]

Sorry meant to post dirty money of course

[saengsureeya]

How one can recognize a "regular school" from "irregular" one pls?

Depends what you mean by 'regular' or 'irregular'

It is common knowledge in the Thai language schools circle - which schools are used if you are not that interested in learning Thai and those who are serious about giving you a good educational return for your 25,000 baht.

A trawl through the Thai language forum will make it clear - for sure !

A regular or accredited educational institute shows this on their website and the school-registration is on a wall in the school:

[DisainaM]

when 2015, ASEAN is starting with the freedom of movement,

everything will change.

Lets hope, also Phuket immigration will learn the lesson of an open minded administration.

[96tehtarp]

Recently on a visa run to a neighbouring country I saw hoards of aliens entering the Kingdom through legal channels, and many more rafting in on flotillas of rubber dinghies over the river - this scene was from every vantage and the dinghy migrants were numbered in the hundreds unencumbered by paperwork or any sign of the Thai immigration authorities.

More illegals were taking the river route than "legals" through immigration. The illegal traffic was bidirectional. Look to the "West" for similar parallels, and the "! laughing- stock !" that immigration control in places like the UK and France (The Chunnel) and every other Schengen country has become. Even in the United States millions of illegal immigrants pay taxes and are registered to vote. Another forum has a recent post of how a full-time employed British national and resident taxpayer cannot afford to pay the visa fees for his Singaporean wife and step-son.

Back at the border faced with a queue of 700+ coolies and myself alone I jumped to the front of the queue. Their cost for a work permit 3880 Baht. My cost 40 thousand plus ++

While standing waiting for immigration to open at the front of the queue at 06:30 I had the opportunity to speak with a Thai "agent" who facilitates the paperwork for the aliens for a fee. He said,

"yes, but in your country how much hassle and expense is it for a Thai to get a visa, residence, and work permit"?

This is all very well and fine, however when fees get totally out of touch with reality, people will continue to opt to go underground and circumvent the law. The B.I.B. make a fine income on charging "fees" to this category in order to let them pass.

The ED visa is a bit too blatantly abused as it is advertised everywhere in tourist areas on giant billboards as a smart and ready means to circumvent Thailand's immigration law.

[4evermaat]

.........

The ED visa is a bit too blatantly abused as it is advertised everywhere in tourist areas on giant billboards as a smart and ready means to circumvent Thailand's immigration law.

If you think about it, for someone under the age of 50 who isn't married and doesn't plan to hold 400,000-800,000 in a thai bank, what other proper long stay visa is out there? Business visa, although I'm not sure the requirement beyond the invite letter.

[96tehtarp]

If you think about it, for someone under the age of 50 who isn't married and doesn't plan to hold 400,000-800,000 in a Thai bank, what other proper long stay visa is out there?

If a westerner applying for a long stay visa hasn't any money, how is he/she expected to support living in Thailand? (Working illegally?)

There probably shouldn't be any long stay visa available to anyone who does not meet the requirements you mention above. It is obvious that people here who are of working age and have insufficient funds will work here. If someone plans to work here they need to get a work permit.

If you are a citizen of a neighboring country, (or on the list of a few other "friendly" countries), long stay visa's and even work permits are easy to get ...and affordable. Burmese and Cambodians simply fill out a form, get a medical checkup, and pay about 1800 baht per year... actually I think it is a 2 year permit they get.

For farang's like us it is upwards of 40k baht per year, I believe. We have our own respective governments to blame as this treatment we receive here in Thailand is reciprocal. I have been told this directly by immigration officials.

In the absence of practical affordable immigration options the Cambodian, Lao, and Burmese migrant workers will enter Thailand anyway illegal. They were already here when the Thai govt. decided to make it affordable and advantageous for most of them to get legal and documented.

The same economic dynamics applies to westerners. If fees get outrageous, or practically impossible, people will just go underground.

[lopburi3]

All extensions of stay - for a day or a year - cost the same fee of 1,900 baht. It is the same price for everyone.

[96tehtarp]

All extensions of stay - for a day or a year - cost the same fee of 1,900 baht. It is the same price for everyone.

What is stated above is not correct.

In fact the visa, work permit and verifiable extension fees which fall under the 2003 MOU and NV scheme are found here:

Visa: THB 500 (valid for 2 years)

Work Permit Application: THB 100

Work Permit: THB 900-1,800 (dependent upon localities and industry)

The entire MOU process can be viewed here:

Feel free to visit one of a dozen or so NV migrant processing centers, as I often do, and enquire youself. The fact is a visa for THEM costs 500 baht and is valid for two years and a work permit can be had for as little as 900 baht per year. Those are undeniable incontovertable facts.

The last time I checked my Visa costs about 6k baht and my work permit near the 40k mark. That is not the same.

Edited July 29, 2012 by 96tehtarp

[lopburi3]

My information is indeed correct. Extensions of stay are 1,900 baht. Not the

For farang's like us it is upwards of 40k baht per year, I believe.

you posted. Even adding the work permit for a normal foreigner would only add less than 4,000 baht. If you want to pay someone to do then the sky is the limit but most people do not have to pay 40k.

Had taken your post to just be about cost of one year stay each year - which is just the 1,900 baht fee for extension so really not much of a factor.

[Gaccha]

Well I am. The policy is a government response to the hysterical nationalism of Thai equivalents of the knowledge incapacitation nexus of daily mail/daily express readers.

For somebody like me, rich but 20 years from a retirement visa I must do something to stay here. As it happens, I work and so have a work visa, but that only accounts for 11,000 Brits... What are the others doing? It is not immoral to find loopholes in a system designed on bigotism and prejudice.

[Udox]

.........

The ED visa is a bit too blatantly abused as it is advertised everywhere in tourist areas on giant billboards as a smart and ready means to circumvent Thailand's immigration law.

If you think about it, for someone under the age of 50 who isn't married and doesn't plan to hold 400,000-800,000 in a thai bank, what other proper long stay visa is out there? Business visa, although I'm not sure the requirement beyond the invite letter.

What difference does holding 400,000-800,000 make? If you are under 50, not married and not working (by choice or not) and have more than 400-800,000 in the bank - then, the question can be asked - what alternative visa can he/she have.?

It would be a simple matter to set up a (supposed) "settlement' visa where those in the 'other' category could show proof of (minimum) funds (a simple photocopy of your bankbooks showing "normal' activity should do it) and (possibly) proof of health insurance cover to get a 'settlement' visa.

This is currently available when you are 50 years old - but not before (albeit without the health cover requirement)

If an alternative were available for those (young, single and not working) who can afford to support themselves here - of course most people would jump at it. Instead they have little alternative but to go down the ED visa route.

It's hard to condem something when there isn't a viable alternative.

[Aquarius83]

Hi,

has anyone been able to change their Tourist visa to Non Immigrant ED visa at the Immigration even they are just taking Thai classes and not studying in University.

I tried to ask this from the Immigration few days ago but couldn't reach anyone by phone the whole day. I really would hate to take another visarun but what i have heard the change is only possible to University students

Edited August 4, 2012 by Aquarius83

[ubonjoe]

Most reports indicate that a conversion from Tourist to ED is not possible.

It does not seem to matter what type of educational institution you are attending.

[samran]

As usual, the thread has turned into a debate about the visa system and the dangerous sense of entitlement which comes from the false assumption that without you blokes Thailand would fall into an economic abyss.

As for Ed visas - perhaps only university run courses should be eligible. Prevents the scammers while keeping all those who proclaim to be genuine language students happy.

[skippybangkok]

As usual, the thread has turned into a debate about the visa system and the dangerous sense of entitlement which comes from the false assumption that without you blokes Thailand would fall into an economic abyss.

As for Ed visas - perhaps only university run courses should be eligible. Prevents the scammers while keeping all those who proclaim to be genuine language students happy.

Agreed..... The only things which would fold would maybe be a few brothels.... But then there are enough tourist visa' s to keep them afloat.

[TCA]

Where is this idea coming from that vast numbers of people on ED visas are into dodgy or illegal activities? Girly bars have been mentioned but surely anyone married to a Thai or on a retirement visa could equally (if not more likely) be involved in that? There may be language schools operating as visa factories but plenty people go to reputable schools and follow all the given guidelines, so let's not tar everyone with the same brush. Weed out the bad schools and it's sorted. No need to scrap a visa system that works ok for those with no other options.

Edited August 5, 2012 by TCA

[Richard W]

Nothing to difficult he assures me (with a laugh) but he does admit to asking Ed.extension applicants if "Big fish eat Smaller fish"!

Does he include a question word? In the form I've read of this, it was reported as a statement, and I for one am hard pushed to think of a suitable response other than to smile and nod, and perhaps say 'khrap'. I hope he pronounces his 'l's.

[Sandman77]

What is The exact reason that The ed Visa will be chanceled ?

I recogneized when I study one month in Pattaya , that the owner of the school say withouth further notice the Imigration office visit the school!

Tomorrow no students can come , the verification process took one day!

In my opinion some schools , are the black sheep , not there student, when the not follow there own law!

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[yougivemebaby]

Because of the mass abuse of this visa, they really should stop it altogether. Given up counting the amount of people that talk about having an ED Visa and never attending a college. Its a money spinner for the schools and its unfair to those of us that have gone through he correct channels to process our appropriate visas. Get rid of it!

Totally agree with above comments, so many people abuse this option, so checks need to be put in place to weed out the ones who abuse this option.

Abuse what? If it is legal and a person wants to stay in Thailand. Why is it abuse? I don't understand your logic. I love Thailand and would find any legal way to stay here. There are people who are staying in Thailand with expired visas. These people want to go the legal route. Don't judge them by anything more than that.!

[Wavefloater]

Because of the mass abuse of this visa, they really should stop it altogether. Given up counting the amount of people that talk about having an ED Visa and never attending a college. Its a money spinner for the schools and its unfair to those of us that have gone through he correct channels to process our appropriate visas. Get rid of it!

It certainly does seem to be a bit of a loophole that's exploited to allow long and basically hassle-free stays in Thailand. I've lived and worked here for several years, and I'm happy to have a legitimate non-B visa, but I really don't care if people choose the education visa to avoid the monthly visa run to Cambodia. Go for it dudes!

I think the problem the Thai gov't has with this approach to staying in Thailand, apart from general xenophobia, is that they view "language students" as low spenders (mostly backpacker types) and we know that TAT and the gov't have been talking a campaign to raise the quality (i.e. income level) of tourists for some time.

BTW Phronesis, you shouldn't be retiring under 50 years of age, anyway. Get back to work! (Of course, I'm only joking. If you have the financial means and the inclination to retire, go for it. Personally, I'm over 50 but the prospect of retiring anytime soon scares the bejeebers out of me.)

[MYKTHEMIN]

Because of the mass abuse of this visa, they really should stop it altogether. Given up counting the amount of people that talk about having an ED Visa and never attending a college. Its a money spinner for the schools and its unfair to those of us that have gone through he correct channels to process our appropriate visas. Get rid of it!

Totally agree with above comments, so many people abuse this option, so checks need to be put in place to weed out the ones who abuse this option.

Abuse what? If it is legal and a person wants to stay in Thailand. Why is it abuse? I don't understand your logic. I love Thailand and would find any legal way to stay here. There are people who are staying in Thailand with expired visas. These people want to go the legal route. Don't judge them by anything more than that.!

Too many people DO NOT study, just use the system to stay here, many are dross drug dealers etc etc.