In a recent thread in this forum, the name and scope of this community forum was questioned.

An OP inquired about issues relating to transsexualism, in particular to sex change. One of the commentators, asked why the OP assumed that gay men would know about this. The subsequently emerging discussion focused in parts on the scope of this forum, whether for example lesbian women would be welcomed here.

One of the key points was that the term “gay people” doesn't really makes sense (in contemporary in English), as it really refers to gay men and by this tends to excluded many other people. Although it was recognised that there should be a forum specifically dedicated to gay men in Thailand, the remaining question --in my opinion-- is whether we should have a broader forum. A simple solution would be to have something like a “LGBT(I) people in Thailand” community forum, where “Gay men in Thailand” would be a sub forum.

The advantage of this would be that people with genuine concerns and interesting discussion relating to sexuality and gender (especially those which tend not to be considered mainstream) would have a community forum. It would avoid the difficult situation of gay men feeling the need to justify themselves, as to why they are considered knowledgeable or not about certain topics that are not directly related to male homosexuality.

Hope to hear your ideas and comments. Many thanks!

Edited July 18, 201213 yr by Morakot

"Gay people" includes people of all genders that like people of their own gender. Therefore, it includes gay men and gay women (a.k.a. lesbians).

We have had bisexuals contributing, but very little from trans people. Hm. Do you really think that changing the forum name to LGBT will change that? I think that people (male or female) who just find out that they are gay might not yet be familiar with the term.

"Gay people" includes people of all genders that like people of their own gender. Therefore, it includes gay men and gay women (a.k.a. lesbians).

We have had bisexuals contributing, but very little from trans people. Hm. Do you really think that changing the forum name to LGBT will change that? I think that people (male or female) who just find out that they are gay might not yet be familiar with the term.

We don't have to use an acronym. I don't know whether it will change, but it's almost a question of what comes first. The previous response:

One of the misconceptions that a lot of people labour under is that a forum almost exclusively populated by gay men [...] will be any more knowledgeable about men who want to transform themselves into women than any other section of the population.

I feel is nothing but inviting! Why would anyone with a concern that is not directly related to being a gay man come here, if one is met with such a response. My point is that if we are very clear about the name and have a broader forum and one dedicated for gay men things might change.

Edited July 18, 201213 yr by Morakot

A VERY SIMILAR topic (with a poll) has already been discussed here. (And it was closed.) The majority favored including trans people in the gay forum. I didn't ask about separating us. My current feeling is still the same:

Include in the gay forum: Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgendered

DELETE reference to "alternative lifestyle" to describe the forum (so dated, so wrong!)

A group I am NOT so comfortable fully including is heterosexually identified men who are into ladyboys. I think that is not gay enough.

Edited July 18, 201213 yr by Jingthing

Include in the gay forum: Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgendered

DELETE reference to "alternative lifestyle" to describe the forum (so dated, so wrong!)

Sounds good too. Yes, I fully share the concern about "alternative". It's strange; alternative to what? I dread to thing.

Edited July 18, 201213 yr by Morakot

The thing is it was clear after that last thread the powers that be are resistant to these suggested changes. Not a bad idea to bring it up again, but don't get your hopes up.

A VERY SIMILAR topic (with a poll) has already been discussed here. (And it was closed.) The majority favored including trans people in the gay forum. I didn't ask about separating us. My current feeling is still the same:

Inclusion is a good too, if not better. I only suggested the sub forum, because people felt that gay men might not be so happy with a change in the name. To be honest, it the moment the forum in it's current state is very much a gay men forum. I thought it might be worth to recognised this with a sub forum.

The thing is it was clear after that last thread the powers that be are resistant to these suggested changes. Not a bad idea to bring it up again, but don't get your hopes up.

Thanks for your kind words. It would be good to find out all sides of the argument and see how people feel about this nowadays.

Well, let's face some facts here.

Demographically this is an EXPAT forum.

The majority of expats (and tourists) in Thailand are male.

The majority of GAY expats (and tourists) in Thailand are male.

So while I fully welcome inclusion, I doubt there would a huge number of lesbian and transgender expats using the forum even if explicitly included.

So I think any further division into subforums is silly given the expected (low) participation of people other than gay male expats. I also don't think inclusion would cause a big change, so I think why not, but on the other hand if it isn't changed, I don't think it's a big deal either (small numbers as I said).

The issue I identified about straight identified men into ladyboys is I think much more interesting (and controversial).

Edited July 18, 201213 yr by Jingthing

Well, let's face some facts here.

Demographically this is an EXPAT forum.

The majority of expats (and tourists) in Thailand are male.

The majority of GAY expats (and tourists) in Thailand are male.

So while I fully welcome inclusion, I doubt there would a huge number of lesbian and transgender expats using the forum even if explicitly included.

So I think any further division into subforums is silly given the expected (low) participation of people other than gay male expats. I also don't think inclusion would cause a big change, so I think why not, but on the other hand if it isn't changed, I don't think it's a big deal either (small numbers as I said).

The issue I identified about straight identified men into ladyboys is I think much more interesting (and controversial).

Well, I agree with this.

That's my personal opinion, not a mod reply.

Well, let's face some facts here.

Demographically this is an EXPAT forum.

The majority of expats (and tourists) in Thailand are male.

The majority of GAY expats (and tourists) in Thailand are male.

So while I fully welcome inclusion, I doubt there would a huge number of lesbian and transgender expats using the forum even if explicitly included.

So I think any further division into subforums is silly given the expected (low) participation of people other than gay male expats. I also don't think inclusion would cause a big change, so I think why not, but on the other hand if it isn't changed, I don't think it's a big deal either (small numbers as I said).

The issue I identified about straight identified men into ladyboys is I think much more interesting (and controversial).

Well, I agree with this.

That's my personal opinion, not a mod reply.

Yes, but would all of this not being sorted, if we have an all inclusive LGBT forum, where even straight men can ask questions they have about ladyboys?

Well, let's face some facts here.

Demographically this is an EXPAT forum.

The majority of expats (and tourists) in Thailand are male.

The majority of GAY expats (and tourists) in Thailand are male.

So while I fully welcome inclusion, I doubt there would a huge number of lesbian and transgender expats using the forum even if explicitly included.

So I think any further division into subforums is silly given the expected (low) participation of people other than gay male expats. I also don't think inclusion would cause a big change, so I think why not, but on the other hand if it isn't changed, I don't think it's a big deal either (small numbers as I said).

The issue I identified about straight identified men into ladyboys is I think much more interesting (and controversial).

Well, I agree with this.

That's my personal opinion, not a mod reply.

Yes, but would all of this not being sorted, if we have an all inclusive LGBT forum, where even straight men can ask questions they have about ladyboys?

Good question. My feeling is that the idea of totally separate forum for straight men into ladyboys would be the place. Not the gay forum. However, I reckon if such a forum was started it would be a moderating problem as lots of the talk would likely be about commercial sex which is not encouraged at thaivisa. This is what I meant by controversial. The numbers of straight men into ladyboys I reckon is much higher than gay expats so the forum WOULD change a lot if it was dominated by that demographic. I'm against that.

It may be surprising to OP and others, but we can't just go around renaming the forum any time someone has a political issue with it. There will be people on both sides of any change. As changes of that magnitude can also have search engine issues, it's not something that should be done on a whim. If this were a pressing issue for a large group of members, maybe we would bother management with it. I don't see that kind of interest here. Thanks for the thought, but I think not for now. Please consider implications that I am some kind of political ogre cheerfully ignored. Thread closed.