Samitivej Hospital Birth Disappointment...

lincsong · July 23, 2012

My wife was a perfect candidate for natural childbirth, and it was one of our main reasons for choosing Samitivej, having heard (wrongly) that they had a low c-section rate. We discovered, too late, that they are a C-section factory, where every sigle person in our birth class had a C-section... I have done a ton of research, and I feel very strongly that my wife did not need to have the c-section, but in the moment of birth pain, any doubt gives the doctor a chance to do their "job" and tell you to have a c-section. The WHO recommends a 10-15% c-section rate, one Samitivejj nurse told us it was 50%, but since I can not find even one natural birt parent here, I think it is much higher. There are some blogs, which influenced our choice to give birth at this Samitivej, but I now believe they are propaganda , paid for by this hospital to generate business. whatever you choose, please be strong, know what is supposed to happen, do NOT go to the hospital too early!!!! It is your choice, don't let the doctors, or anyone else control you against your will.

MrRealDeal · July 23, 2012

Yeah great advice ..... Everyone demand what they want when it's contrairy to what the doctor says

Soutpeel · July 23, 2012

"It is your choice, don't let the doctors, or anyone else control you against your will"..... .....

So they tied her to bed and forceably performed a C-section against her will without signing a consent form...is this what your saying ?

Elective C-section:

More revenue and more conventient for the doctors

arminbkk · July 23, 2012

..............but in the moment of birth pain, any doubt gives the doctor a chance to do their "job" and tell you to have a c-section.

And you obviously agreed, no?

Soutpeel · July 23, 2012

..............but in the moment of birth pain, any doubt gives the doctor a chance to do their "job" and tell you to have a c-section.

And you obviously agreed, no?

So you are questioning the doctors advice/decision/competancy then. ?

Are you a Dr ? as you seem to think your wife was a perfect candiate ? what was this based on ? expert medical opinion or an internet search

you could has asked for a second opinion.? what was the reason given for proceeding with the C-section ?

You are making some quite serious accusations, as you are suggesting they are conducting unnessecary operations ?

If she was such a perfect candidate why not a home birth with a midwife ?..why even go the hospital

MrRealDeal · July 23, 2012

Actually I wouldn't agree it's all that serious an accusation it's really pretty common ..... it's not considered my medical people as un unecssary operation it's just considered an alternative, thats safer and more profitable at the same time.

Soutpeel · July 23, 2012

Actually I wouldn't agree it's all that serious an accusation it's really pretty common ..... it's not considered my medical people as un unecssary operation it's just considered an alternative, thats safer and more profitable at the same time.

OK accept that....but the OP is also accusing the hospital of paying for "propaganda"..... "There are some blogs, which influenced our choice to give birth at this Samitivej, but I now believe they are propaganda , paid for by this hospital to generate business"

I am trying to understand the motivation for the post....is this in the interests of his wifes health or that he had to pay more for the C-section ?

arthurwait · July 23, 2012

..............but in the moment of birth pain, any doubt gives the doctor a chance to do their "job" and tell you to have a c-section.

And you obviously agreed, no?

So you are questioning the doctors advice/decision/competancy then. ?

Are you a Dr ? as you seem to think your wife was a perfect candiate ? what was this based on ? expert medical opinion or an internet search

you could has asked for a second opinion.? what was the reason given for proceeding with the C-section ?

You are making some quite serious accusations, as you are suggesting they are conducting unnessecary operations ?

If she was such a perfect candidate why not a home birth with a midwife ?..why even go the hospital

Why not ? Private hospitals in this country are a massive get rich quick scheme for their owners.

Apparently my son is allergic to baby cows milk according to a doctor in one of the top private hospital chains. Apparently he has to drink soya baby milk like the one that the doctor just happened to have many samples of. Yet doctors in three other hospitals didn't agree with her and basically stopped short of saying her 'advice' was complete and utter fiction. Top childs doctor in that hospital apparently as well.

Edit: and in response to the above post. Yes she is very highly recommended on the internet aparently by er er well we'll never know.

Edited July 23, 2012 by arthurwait

MrRealDeal · July 23, 2012

Seems like the motavation is he just doesn't like hospitals or Doctors ..... I can understand that as I don't either, the difference between me and him is since I don't like them I also don't go to them and complain about it later.

barefoot1988 · July 23, 2012

not many doctors haveere

..............but in the moment of birth pain, any doubt gives the doctor a chance to do their "job" and tell you to have a c-section.

And you obviously agreed, no?

So you are questioning the doctors advice/decision/competancy then. ?

Are you a Dr ? as you seem to think your wife was a perfect candiate ? what was this based on ? expert medical opinion or an internet search

you could has asked for a second opinion.? what was the reason given for proceeding with the C-section ?

You are making some quite serious accusations, as you are suggesting they are conducting unnessecary operations ?

If she was such a perfect candidate why not a home birth with a midwife ?..why even go the hospital

Why not ? Private hospitals in this country are a massive get rich quick scheme for their owners.

Apparently my son is allergic to baby cows milk according to a doctor in one of the top private hospital chains. Apparently he has to drink soya baby milk like the one that the doctor just happened to have many samples of. Yet doctors in three other hospitals didn't agree with her and basically stopped short of saying her 'advice' was complete and utter fiction. Top childs doctor in that hospital apparently as well.

got to agree some doctors are pure bullshlt here. when i had a minor accident, one of them in cm wanted to add titanium in my wrist and recommend me to do a ligament surgery as well. went to afew other recommended specialists for opinion and its all just a minor hairline fracture, when i told them about the recommended surgery they just shook their head with a smile. the bone all heal well, just a week there isnt any much pain anymore

i wonder if doctors here take their hippocratic oath

arthurwait · July 23, 2012

not many doctors haveere

..............but in the moment of birth pain, any doubt gives the doctor a chance to do their "job" and tell you to have a c-section.

And you obviously agreed, no?

So you are questioning the doctors advice/decision/competancy then. ?

Are you a Dr ? as you seem to think your wife was a perfect candiate ? what was this based on ? expert medical opinion or an internet search

you could has asked for a second opinion.? what was the reason given for proceeding with the C-section ?

You are making some quite serious accusations, as you are suggesting they are conducting unnessecary operations ?

If she was such a perfect candidate why not a home birth with a midwife ?..why even go the hospital

Why not ? Private hospitals in this country are a massive get rich quick scheme for their owners.

Apparently my son is allergic to baby cows milk according to a doctor in one of the top private hospital chains. Apparently he has to drink soya baby milk like the one that the doctor just happened to have many samples of. Yet doctors in three other hospitals didn't agree with her and basically stopped short of saying her 'advice' was complete and utter fiction. Top childs doctor in that hospital apparently as well.

got to agree some doctors are pure bullshlt here. when i had a minor accident, one of them in cm wanted to add titanium in my wrist and recommend me to do a ligament surgery as well. went to afew other recommended specialists for opinion and its all just a minor hairline fracture, when i told them about the recommended surgery they just shook their head with a smile. the bone all heal well, just a week there isnt any much pain anymore

i wonder if doctors here take their hippocratic oath

I needed chest x-rays and a specialist for a sore throat.

DP25 · July 23, 2012

You sure your wife didn't really want the c-section the whole time so when given the option by the doctor she took it? Hospitals may encourage c-sections but I think most of the patients want them too for various reasons.

Soutpeel · July 23, 2012

..............but in the moment of birth pain, any doubt gives the doctor a chance to do their "job" and tell you to have a c-section.

And you obviously agreed, no?

So you are questioning the doctors advice/decision/competancy then. ?

Are you a Dr ? as you seem to think your wife was a perfect candiate ? what was this based on ? expert medical opinion or an internet search

you could has asked for a second opinion.? what was the reason given for proceeding with the C-section ?

You are making some quite serious accusations, as you are suggesting they are conducting unnessecary operations ?

If she was such a perfect candidate why not a home birth with a midwife ?..why even go the hospital

Why not ? Private hospitals in this country are a massive get rich quick scheme for their owners.

One assumes the guys wife is Thai, so could have gone to any number of Thai goverment hospitals and avoided the "massive rich quick schemes" then, as it appears in his opinion this was going to be a natural child birth with no complications.

Soutpeel · July 23, 2012

i wonder if doctors here take their hippocratic oath

I believe the hippocratic oath refers to do no harm, not that you are not allowed to make a buck

Private hosptials the world over pull the same stunts, first and formost they are a business and thats what people forget

GuestHouse · July 23, 2012

While I take the OP's report on face value, I'm rather a fan of the Samitivej, my personal experience is they have never over prescribed medication or treatment when I've used their services and their fees have always been reasonable.

On the one occasion facing surgery at the Samitivej I asked for a second opinion at a large hospital near a big road in Pattaya (no names no pack drill).

Where the Samitivej had advised surgery, but insisted I first have at least a couple of weeks treatment to clear a nasty chest infection before it would be safe to sedate me. The second opinion I got from our friends in Pattaya was yes I needed surgery and they could operate the next day - their estimate almost three times that of Samitivej.

My suspicion is therefore that if the OP is correct and the C section was not necessary, it would very likely have been undertaken in any Thai private hospital but that it might well have cost a great deal more elsewhere.

Not sure what all the nonsense about not questioning the doctor's advice is about?

Remember this is Thailand were the medical profession are fighting tooth and nail to avoid the passing of laws making them legally liable where the are guilty of malpractice. They seem not to confident in themselves, so I'd say its good to question everything the say and do or better still propose to do to either you or any member of your family.

Soutpeel · July 23, 2012

I needed chest x-rays and a specialist for a sore throat.

From a western medical website:

The causes of a chronic sore throat may be due to an infection, chemical or mechanical injuries or some other cause of persistent inflammation. Identifying the cause depends on the other signs and symptoms present, apart from the sore throat, as well as considering the patient’s medical history. At times, other diagnostic investigation may be required. This may include an x-ray, CT scan or laryngoscopy.

HardenedSoul · July 23, 2012

Well I think the OP can take some consolation knowing that he'll be able to touch the sides when normal service resumes.

Soutpeel · July 23, 2012

Well I think the OP can take some consolation knowing that he'll be able to touch the sides when normal service resumes.

Or the OP is unaware that his wife agreed to the C-section without telling him cos she didnt want that either...

arthurwait · July 23, 2012

..............but in the moment of birth pain, any doubt gives the doctor a chance to do their "job" and tell you to have a c-section.

And you obviously agreed, no?

So you are questioning the doctors advice/decision/competancy then. ?

Are you a Dr ? as you seem to think your wife was a perfect candiate ? what was this based on ? expert medical opinion or an internet search

you could has asked for a second opinion.? what was the reason given for proceeding with the C-section ?

You are making some quite serious accusations, as you are suggesting they are conducting unnessecary operations ?

If she was such a perfect candidate why not a home birth with a midwife ?..why even go the hospital

Why not ? Private hospitals in this country are a massive get rich quick scheme for their owners.

One assumes the guys wife is Thai, so could have gone to any number of Thai goverment hospitals and avoided the "massive rich quick schemes" then, as it appears in his opinion this was going to be a natural child birth with no complications.

Yes he could have. Maybe he thought the private hospital would be better equipped if something went wrong and was happy to pay for that and what he thought was necessary.

You are defending this well, do you have an interest in the hospital ?

NBD · July 23, 2012

I had a similar thing with our first born a couple of months ago. The doctor seemed very keen on a C section from about a month before the due date.- I was strongly in favour of natural, as was my wife, though less so. Yes it was a relatively big baby by Thai standards, but my wife is relatively big by Thai standards and the mother/baby weight was not extreme. It went a week past the due date (itself not based on very much science) and we went ahead with the operation.

I agree with the notion of questioning doctors both because they are capable of pushing for what is most convenient for them, and because I want to know what's going on. And it falls to me because my wife, like many Thais, feels it's rude and unnecessary to ever ask questions of people in authority (except her husband!) I do believe certain doctors know they're in this position of power and use it to their advantage.

However just think if you had insisted on a natural against medical advice and something had gone wrong? All you can really do is ask such questions as you can, and do what research you can to satisfy yourself that there is at least some genuine medical reason for wanting to do that.

If you left hospital with a healthy wife and baby then be glad of that. I can tell you that a few weeks later it won't seem the least bit important.

By the way, for those who seem to think a C section is a simple, safe and convenient alternative to natural birth - it isn't. It's a major operation that carries significant risks for mother and baby, but often less than a complicated child birth.

jackinbkk · July 23, 2012

I don't see the outrage over all these C sections. OK it may be more traumatic on the mother but I'd say that's balanced by the added safety for the baby not going through natural child birth.

NBD · July 23, 2012

What added safety for the baby is that then?

NanLaew · July 23, 2012

There's anecdotal stories of some of the, shall we say, less earnest doctors in LOS wanting to avoid a lady's 'mucky bits' and advising the c-section as medically imperative.

Apparently, there's also a very common tendency for the local doctor to suggest that since the father is a farang, then the baby is 'too big' for the natural 'fire escape' and the c-section is strongly suggested. I think this is probably the most common way of extracting the higher fees for this type of attended birth.

I read that the natural birthing canal imparts immunogens and other natural nutrients to the newborn as it passes through and there are research claims to indicate there's a much higher incidence of post-natal health issues with newborns that were introduced via c-section.

I am not sure what the OP's implored 'do NOT go to the hospital early' is all about. Surely a professionally monitored third trimester would indicate well in advance if the c-section option is more likely. I would think that a 'last minute' approach would guarantee that they would prefer and recommend the fast-track c-section.

vtjforyou · July 23, 2012

One of the higher rate of section in the world in Thailand... who is going to trust a doctor here ?

travelmann · July 23, 2012

It would be great to see how many Thai women in the UK giving birth in the UK needed a C section?? anyones wife given birth here??

fletchsmile · July 23, 2012

C-Sections are becoming more common globally. I believe China leads the world. In Asia generally they are also significantly on the increase and I read somewhere rates are now higher here in Thailand now than in the west (US/UK). They were something like 10%+ in the 90's to over 30%+ now in Thailand. In addition rates are also higher in private hospitals than state hospitals, although I guess part of that is also more wealthy people wanting more convenience on timing etc and being prepared to pay for it.

We were actually warned of C-Sections being more common and often unneccessary here so the OP's points are well taken. I suspect there are quite a few C-Sections done where not wanted or needed, and the stats seem to support it in private hospitals.

We had an excellent doctor at Bumrungrad, who discussed our wishes on key things before the birth and respected our wishes for a normal birth - Dr.Noppadol Saropala. In fact he was excellent all round - twice - and both natural births. He has various qualifications from the UK so great for expats who want someone who can appreciate people who are more used to the UK systems. He actually specialises in women wanting "vaginal births after C-Section", which I guess indicates his interest in giving the mother the choice of what she wants wherever possible. Having a C-Section first time makes it more likely for next time, so nice to know people like him are around

Like many things in Thai medical treatments, it pays to do your research beforehand, and to talk thru on your terms what you want - so the warning from OP is useful. Some Thai doctors really don't like being questioned or challenged, whereas ones that have studied and practiced overseas are more used to it, as well as more sensitive to cultural views and differences to Thai practices

Johnniey · July 23, 2012

We were the same in Bamrungrad. It all to do with the doctors not wanting to miss their teeing off times. The doctors at these hospitals are "gods" - you can't inconvenience them.

They are run as businesses and I was most upset that they didn't even wai us when we paid all that money.

Johnniey · July 23, 2012

C-Sections are becoming more common globally. I believe China leads the world. In Asia generally they are also significantly on the increase and I read somewhere rates are now higher here in Thailand now than in the west (US/UK). They were something like 10%+ in the 90's to over 30%+ now in Thailand. In addition rates are also higher in private hospitals than state hospitals, although I guess part of that is also more wealthy people wanting more convenience on timing etc and being prepared to pay for it.

We were actually warned of C-Sections being more common and often unneccessary here so the OP's points are well taken. I suspect there are quite a few C-Sections done where not wanted or needed, and the stats seem to support it in private hospitals.

We had an excellent doctor at Bumrungrad, who discussed our wishes on key things before the birth and respected our wishes for a normal birth - Dr.Noppadol Saropala. In fact he was excellent all round - twice - and both natural births. He has various qualifications from the UK so great for expats who want someone who can appreciate people who are more used to the UK systems. He actually specialises in women wanting "vaginal births after C-Section", which I guess indicates his interest in giving the mother the choice of what she wants wherever possible. Having a C-Section first time makes it more likely for next time, so nice to know people like him are around

Like many things in Thai medical treatments, it pays to do your research beforehand, and to talk thru on your terms what you want - so the warning from OP is useful. Some Thai doctors really don't like being questioned or challenged, whereas ones that have studied and practiced overseas are more used to it, as well as more sensitive to cultural views and differences to Thai practices

He told my wife straight that as she had had a c-section before, she definitely couldn't have a normal birth.

fletchsmile · July 23, 2012

He told my wife straight that as she had had a c-section before, she definitely couldn't have a normal birth.

Not my area of expertise but VBAC isn't suitable for everyone, and one of the factors is the history and reason behind previous C-Sections.

Did your wife have her first baby at Bumrungrad?

Soutpeel · July 24, 2012

C-Sections are becoming more common globally. I believe China leads the world. In Asia generally they are also significantly on the increase and I read somewhere rates are now higher here in Thailand now than in the west (US/UK). They were something like 10%+ in the 90's to over 30%+ now in Thailand. In addition rates are also higher in private hospitals than state hospitals, although I guess part of that is also more wealthy people wanting more convenience on timing etc and being prepared to pay for it.

We were actually warned of C-Sections being more common and often unneccessary here so the OP's points are well taken. I suspect there are quite a few C-Sections done where not wanted or needed, and the stats seem to support it in private hospitals.

We had an excellent doctor at Bumrungrad, who discussed our wishes on key things before the birth and respected our wishes for a normal birth - Dr.Noppadol Saropala. In fact he was excellent all round - twice - and both natural births. He has various qualifications from the UK so great for expats who want someone who can appreciate people who are more used to the UK systems. He actually specialises in women wanting "vaginal births after C-Section", which I guess indicates his interest in giving the mother the choice of what she wants wherever possible. Having a C-Section first time makes it more likely for next time, so nice to know people like him are around

Like many things in Thai medical treatments, it pays to do your research beforehand, and to talk thru on your terms what you want - so the warning from OP is useful. Some Thai doctors really don't like being questioned or challenged, whereas ones that have studied and practiced overseas are more used to it, as well as more sensitive to cultural views and differences to Thai practices

C-Sections are becoming more common globally. I believe China leads the world. In Asia generally they are also significantly on the increase and I read somewhere rates are now higher here in Thailand now than in the west (US/UK). They were something like 10%+ in the 90's to over 30%+ now in Thailand. In addition rates are also higher in private hospitals than state hospitals, although I guess part of that is also more wealthy people wanting more convenience on timing etc and being prepared to pay for it.

We were actually warned of C-Sections being more common and often unneccessary here so the OP's points are well taken. I suspect there are quite a few C-Sections done where not wanted or needed, and the stats seem to support it in private hospitals.

We had an excellent doctor at Bumrungrad, who discussed our wishes on key things before the birth and respected our wishes for a normal birth - Dr.Noppadol Saropala. In fact he was excellent all round - twice - and both natural births. He has various qualifications from the UK so great for expats who want someone who can appreciate people who are more used to the UK systems. He actually specialises in women wanting "vaginal births after C-Section", which I guess indicates his interest in giving the mother the choice of what she wants wherever possible. Having a C-Section first time makes it more likely for next time, so nice to know people like him are around

Like many things in Thai medical treatments, it pays to do your research beforehand, and to talk thru on your terms what you want - so the warning from OP is useful. Some Thai doctors really don't like being questioned or challenged, whereas ones that have studied and practiced overseas are more used to it, as well as more sensitive to cultural views and differences to Thai practices

He told my wife straight that as she had had a c-section before, she definitely couldn't have a normal birth.

Well interesting enough my Ex-wife who was not Thai or has ever been to Thailand was told the same thing by a western Dr who happened to be a family friend, once a C-section has been performed once the second time around it would be a C-section as well

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