Chiang Mai Tops The List In "Six Global Destinations For An Affordable Retirement"

[DowntownAl]

How can we keep Chiang Mai a well-kept-secret, if these sites keep blabbing ?

Highlight the negatives, make up some horrific events. Earthquakes, flooding, toxic air, rivers of blood, tuk tuk drivers.

You forgot military coup, martial law, emergency decree, curfews...

Redshirts, muggers, dengue fever ...... Loi Khro closing at midnight ....... Downtown Inn deaths ....

Rabid soi dogs, they're everywhere...

[AnkertilBrewer]

How can we keep Chiang Mai a well-kept-secret, if these sites keep blabbing ?

Plus we don't necessarily want CM to turn into "Leisure World." Personally, I don't mind the retires (so far), but, their presence may be jacking up prices, because many can afford to pay them. The article says a guy can live "live like a king on $2,000 a month." That may be true. However, for those of us too young to retire, we must, er, WORK, and that probably means, TEACHING, and most teachers won't make even half the King's purse in a month. So, what's great for retirees who don't have to work, many of whom are just here 'cause it's cheap, can make things more difficult for anyone younger who actually does have to work to live here.

Prices have really gone up in CM in the last 5 years. I don't know how much of that is directly attributable to a growing senior expat community with money to burn, who can afford to pay higher prices, but, teacher's salaries have remained stagnant. So, while teachers could never live like kinds in CM, now their local salaries get them only about 70% as much as they did in the past.

Also, sad to say it, but, old white guys are becoming part of the face of CM. "What did you see on your trip to Chiangmai." "Oh, it was really exotic and interesting. I saw a lot of old white guys living in Thailand."

Again, not to disparage, as I'd choose to retire here myself, but, the more CM becomes a mecca for retirement, the less it becomes a prime spot for tourists or people who want to work and live in Thailand.

[DowntownAl]

How can we keep Chiang Mai a well-kept-secret, if these sites keep blabbing ?

Plus we don't necessarily want CM to turn into "Leisure World." Personally, I don't mind the retires (so far), but, their presence may be jacking up prices, because many can afford to pay them. The article says a guy can live "live like a king on $2,000 a month." That may be true. However, for those of us too young to retire, we must, er, WORK, and that probably means, TEACHING, and most teachers won't make even half the King's purse in a month. So, what's great for retirees who don't have to work, many of whom are just here 'cause it's cheap, can make things more difficult for anyone younger who actually does have to work to live here.

Prices have really gone up in CM in the last 5 years. I don't know how much of that is directly attributable to a growing senior expat community with money to burn, who can afford to pay higher prices, but, teacher's salaries have remained stagnant. So, while teachers could never live like kinds in CM, now their local salaries get them only about 70% as much as they did in the past.

Also, sad to say it, but, old white guys are becoming part of the face of CM. "What did you see on your trip to Chiangmai." "Oh, it was really exotic and interesting. I saw a lot of old white guys living in Thailand."

Again, not to disparage, as I'd choose to retire here myself, but, the more CM becomes a mecca for retirement, the less it becomes a prime spot for tourists or people who want to work and live in Thailand.

Ah, the arrogance of youth, I remember when I had that too. Keep in mind, you too will be old one day and have to read comments from other younger people who sneer at the old white guys living in Thailand. BTW - I'm retired but, I live in a primarily Thai neighbourhood and do not have money to burn. Edited August 16, 2012 by DowntownAl

[cloudhopper]

Also, sad to say it, but, old white guys are becoming part of the face of CM.

Sorry I'll try to keep out of view.

[Ricardo]

How can we keep Chiang Mai a well-kept-secret, if these sites keep blabbing ?

Highlight the negatives, make up some horrific events. Earthquakes, flooding, toxic air, rivers of blood, tuk tuk drivers.

Plus to note, that we're within range of North Korea's nuclear-tipped missiles, perhaps ?

[amexpat]

Ah, the arrogance of youth, I remember when I had that too. Keep in mind, you too will be old one day ............

Not necessarily.

[CMX]

I judge the article to be flawed from a number of points of view. Eurozone prices, for example, are gamblers' territory and rarely mentioned anywhere (as a retirement bargain) by writers who have done research and have a clue. Similarly, Guatemala today is still risky when compared to much of (inexpensive) Central America.

I also question Winnie's notion that minimum wage rules - anywhere where the prices are inexpensive - for happy ending workers are likely to have much effect on real market forces. It's a very difficulty business to regulate, and there always seems to be a gray market, so to speak.

Also, in that gray connection, to the degree that older expats arrive and are less likely to enter the market (as frequently), so are such fees safe for those that covet them.

But to the main point; white folks like ex-president G.W. Bush, who adhere to Fox's 'news' notions, rarely leave their country, naming it the best on the planet.

[AnkertilBrewer]

How can we keep Chiang Mai a well-kept-secret, if these sites keep blabbing ?

Plus we don't necessarily want CM to turn into "Leisure World." Personally, I don't mind the retires (so far), but, their presence may be jacking up prices, because many can afford to pay them. The article says a guy can live "live like a king on $2,000 a month." That may be true. However, for those of us too young to retire, we must, er, WORK, and that probably means, TEACHING, and most teachers won't make even half the King's purse in a month. So, what's great for retirees who don't have to work, many of whom are just here 'cause it's cheap, can make things more difficult for anyone younger who actually does have to work to live here.

Prices have really gone up in CM in the last 5 years. I don't know how much of that is directly attributable to a growing senior expat community with money to burn, who can afford to pay higher prices, but, teacher's salaries have remained stagnant. So, while teachers could never live like kinds in CM, now their local salaries get them only about 70% as much as they did in the past.

Also, sad to say it, but, old white guys are becoming part of the face of CM. "What did you see on your trip to Chiangmai." "Oh, it was really exotic and interesting. I saw a lot of old white guys living in Thailand."

Again, not to disparage, as I'd choose to retire here myself, but, the more CM becomes a mecca for retirement, the less it becomes a prime spot for tourists or people who want to work and live in Thailand.

Ah, the arrogance of youth, I remember when I had that too. Keep in mind, you too will be old one day and have to read comments from other younger people who sneer at the old white guys living in Thailand. BTW - I'm retired but, I live in a primarily Thai neighbourhood and do not have money to burn.

Which part was arrogant or sneering? I said I'd like to retire here myself. I'm just being honest, and retirees themselves say they want to keep CM a secret from other retirees. So, if you all don't want more retirees, why should younger people, when our reasons are mostly practical = increasing prices and stagnant low salaries. I got nothing against old people. But, frankly, younger people who work on teacher's salaries will never be able to afford to retire in CM themselves, and even though they work full-time, can't afford half the lifestyle the retirees are enjoying. Go in a fancy western restaurant. Look around. See any teachers?

So, like I said, I'm just looking at the situation objectively. Extra retirees may make things harder on younger people who have to work to live here. That's not arrogance or sneering. The part about seeing old white guys everywhere, and them becoming part of the scenery in CM, well, it sounds like the retirees themselves don't want to see too many other seniors.

Cheers

[DowntownAl]

How can we keep Chiang Mai a well-kept-secret, if these sites keep blabbing ?

Plus we don't necessarily want CM to turn into "Leisure World." Personally, I don't mind the retires (so far), but, their presence may be jacking up prices, because many can afford to pay them. The article says a guy can live "live like a king on $2,000 a month." That may be true. However, for those of us too young to retire, we must, er, WORK, and that probably means, TEACHING, and most teachers won't make even half the King's purse in a month. So, what's great for retirees who don't have to work, many of whom are just here 'cause it's cheap, can make things more difficult for anyone younger who actually does have to work to live here.

Prices have really gone up in CM in the last 5 years. I don't know how much of that is directly attributable to a growing senior expat community with money to burn, who can afford to pay higher prices, but, teacher's salaries have remained stagnant. So, while teachers could never live like kinds in CM, now their local salaries get them only about 70% as much as they did in the past.

Also, sad to say it, but, old white guys are becoming part of the face of CM. "What did you see on your trip to Chiangmai." "Oh, it was really exotic and interesting. I saw a lot of old white guys living in Thailand."

Again, not to disparage, as I'd choose to retire here myself, but, the more CM becomes a mecca for retirement, the less it becomes a prime spot for tourists or people who want to work and live in Thailand.

Ah, the arrogance of youth, I remember when I had that too. Keep in mind, you too will be old one day and have to read comments from other younger people who sneer at the old white guys living in Thailand. BTW - I'm retired but, I live in a primarily Thai neighbourhood and do not have money to burn.

Which part was arrogant or sneering? I said I'd like to retire here myself. I'm just being honest, and retirees themselves say they want to keep CM a secret from other retirees. So, if you all don't want more retirees, why should younger people, when our reasons are mostly practical = increasing prices and stagnant low salaries. I got nothing against old people. But, frankly, younger people who work on teacher's salaries will never be able to afford to retire in CM themselves, and even though they work full-time, can't afford half the lifestyle the retirees are enjoying. Go in a fancy western restaurant. Look around. See any teachers?

So, like I said, I'm just looking at the situation objectively. Extra retirees may make things harder on younger people who have to work to live here. That's not arrogance or sneering. The part about seeing old white guys everywhere, and them becoming part of the scenery in CM, well, it sounds like the retirees themselves don't want to see too many other seniors.

Cheers

You see, that's the problem with blanket “objective” view points. All retirees are not all retirees, if you get my meaning. You complain about the well heeled in fine restaurants, where I might ask, are the well heeled not in fine restaurants, this is not a CM phenomenon? You have an opportunity, depending on how young (or old) you are, to build a life of joy and experience here that few others in the world ever have but, instead you choose to complain about the other guy taking an imagined future life away from you, or at least interfering in your plans with their presence.

Personally, I could give a rats ass where people retire, whether that be in CM or some other place, and how they affect my cost of living. I spend a great deal of time nickle and diming my way around so I can improve the quality of my life within my somewhat restricted income, one I am certain is lower than yours. It's actually turned into a bit of a hobby seeing how low I can go without sacrificing play time and a decent lifestyle. To spend your time complaining that it is the other guy who is making your life less, or harder, depending on your view point, is disingenuous and not particularly honest, internally speaking that is. If you're dissatisfied with your income/lifestyle and/or future prospects maybe you should try something new. No, I don't mean go away, I mean try harder. I don't know your age bracket but isn't it us old white guys who are supposed to be afraid of change? Change will happen, it always happens, prices go up, wages go down, it's a corporate/elitist driven cycle that has been around for centuries. Your wages are not stagnant because some old guy bought a condo in the west end, and I won't be brazen enough to claim I know why they're stagnant but, maybe you and your peers could do something to change that paradigm.

In the end, your objective point of view, and your simplistic catch all approach to other human beings reminds my of my very bitter and nasty dear departed mom. She complained vociferously about all those brown people taking English jobs away from the English but, as she would say, she's not a bigot, she was just looking at things objectively.

Hope you're not offended, we all have our own point of view.

Edited August 16, 2012 by DowntownAl

[LawrenceChee]

Lived in different parts of asia including the expensive playspots of singapore hong kong and tokyo and also parts of Indochina ...having bummed around in different places I picked CM for the following reasons

As with retirement and financial matters , it's always personal choices and options and not everyone is the same

1) Ease of travel ; city & beach joints are all within 2 hrs travel and tickets for cost a hole

2) Cool weather options in latter months ...burning months are easy to get away from

3) friendly people who are generally tolerant of mistakes ...more smiles here than frowns ..for those who want to quibble any on the sincerity ..just pop to HK and Singapore where u get none daily ...

4) supermarkets offer loads of choices in prices and selections ...the rich have their export stuff and those on a tighter belt find good local options and specials in hypermart a with free air con, great toilets and good courts

5) good mix of local and intentional restaurants ...whether retired or working you cannot find much options out there for $8 buffets ! Singapore and HK are easily 10 times more expensive and crowded at hotels and service is under par

6) the insane amount of cafes from small ones to chains they are all respites on hot afternoon days at $2 ...or Chedi ( see my other posting) ...the girls they hire at most of these spots are so sweet it does not hurt

7) teeraks for this found love or is finding love ...the northern girls are so womanly and not negative it makes dating and making new friends fun again

8) Lesiure options of nothing...slow down enough to join the crowds in a market and revel in buying nothing and window shop and you realized it is not that bad a thing they dont have more malls here ..who really needs so much stuff in life ?

9) parks to walk in ...wifi , cable and cheap sports bars

10) housing is cheap here ...at the different tiers there are options much better value than any of the other Asian cities ..

.there are cynics out there but I found my sweet spot so CM it is for me

[mesquite]

Extra retirees may make things harder on younger people who have to work to live here.

The younger people always have the option of returning to their home country and getting a real job. They could work there for 30 to 40 years and then move to Chiang Mai. Kind of like what the current retirees did.

Or move to Vietnam to teach English. More money to be made there.

[heybruce]

"1,200-square-foot condo for a little more than $400 per month."

This is over 100 square meters for about 13000 baht a month. Anyone know where this condo is?

As for his food bill, I can only assume he is a very skinny vegetarian.

You can rent a very nice 4 bedroom house in CM for 13k a month.

True, but the story didn't mention a house, it described a 1200 square foot condo where the retiree "lived like a king". Out of curiosity, is anyone renting a reasonably well furnished condo larger than 100 square meters in Punna, Riverside, any of the Hillside1,2,3,4, etc. paying 13k a month or less?

[uptheos]

The article says a guy can live "live like a king on $2,000 a month." That may be true. However, for those of us too young to retire, we must, er, WORK, and that probably means, TEACHING, and most teachers won't make even half the King's purse in a month. So, what's great for retirees who don't have to work, many of whom are just here 'cause it's cheap, can make things more difficult for anyone younger who actually does have to work to live here.

Most teachers living here are not really teachers at all, but are younger people who by virtue of being 'native English speakers', (a term I use loosely), were allowed to take a Micky Mouse Teaching English course during a couple of month's vacation and decided it might be fun to stay on for a while. Their salaries are low (and getting lower), they contribute very little and will inevitably have to return from whence they came, in order to 'get a real job' one day in the real world.......and then they can save some money and maybe come back one day and be one of the old farts.

Edited August 16, 2012 by uptheos

[LawrenceChee]

Get a real job and plan your finances well and don't begrudge those who have it and you will be happier

If u aim to stay as a teacher be a better one so u have the disposable income later ....dot blame others for bumping prices up it is just inflation happens everywhere and thankfully slower here !

[AnkertilBrewer]

You see, that's the problem with blanket “objective” view points. All retirees are not all retirees, if you get my meaning. You complain about the well heeled in fine restaurants, where I might ask, are the well heeled not in fine restaurants, this is not a CM phenomenon? You have an opportunity, depending on how young (or old) you are, to build a life of joy and experience here that few others in the world ever have but, instead you choose to complain about the other guy taking an imagined future life away from you, or at least interfering in your plans with their presence.

Personally, I could give a rats ass where people retire, whether that be in CM or some other place, and how they affect my cost of living. I spend a great deal of time nickle and diming my way around so I can improve the quality of my life within my somewhat restricted income, one I am certain is lower than yours. It's actually turned into a bit of a hobby seeing how low I can go without sacrificing play time and a decent lifestyle. To spend your time complaining that it is the other guy who is making your life less, or harder, depending on your view point, is disingenuous and not particularly honest, internally speaking that is. If you're dissatisfied with your income/lifestyle and/or future prospects maybe you should try something new. No, I don't mean go away, I mean try harder. I don't know your age bracket but isn't it us old white guys who are supposed to be afraid of change? Change will happen, it always happens, prices go up, wages go down, it's a corporate/elitist driven cycle that has been around for centuries. Your wages are not stagnant because some old guy bought a condo in the west end, and I won't be brazen enough to claim I know why they're stagnant but, maybe you and your peers could do something to change that paradigm.

In the end, your objective point of view, and your simplistic catch all approach to other human beings reminds my of my very bitter and nasty dear departed mom. She complained vociferously about all those brown people taking English jobs away from the English but, as she would say, she's not a bigot, she was just looking at things objectively.

Hope you're not offended, we all have our own point of view.

That was really a lot of complaining about me. Your first mistake was to try to put words in my mouth, like that I said anything about "all retirees," which I never did. I have retired friends, and generally like older people. What I stated are facts that some of them will say themselves. Some things are generational. The older generation can retire, younger people who are working now may never have that opportunity, due to the global economic meltdown.

I just stated some simple facts. You inserted the feelings about it yourself. I'm not bothered overmuch by the circumstances, but am aware of them, and taking measures to not get the short end of the stick. That doesn't mean I can't articulate the obvious truth that a surplus of expats drives up prices (more establishments will switch to Farang prices), and also keeps salaries for other expats down (because of the law of supply and demand).

[AnkertilBrewer]

Get a real job and plan your finances well and don't begrudge those who have it and you will be happier

If u aim to stay as a teacher be a better one so u have the disposable income later ....dot blame others for bumping prices up it is just inflation happens everywhere and thankfully slower here !

No need to insult teachers here. It's a real job. If you don't think so, that's a reflection on you, not teachers.

[AnkertilBrewer]

Most teachers living here are not really teachers at all, but are younger people who by virtue of being 'native English speakers', (a term I use loosely), were allowed to take a Micky Mouse Teaching English course during a couple of month's vacation and decided it might be fun to stay on for a while. Their salaries are low (and getting lower), they contribute very little and will inevitably have to return from whence they came, in order to 'get a real job' one day in the real world.......and then they can save some money and maybe come back one day and be one of the old farts.

Actually, to teach in Thailand one should have at least a bachelors and and a CELTA or TEFL or TESOL. Many teachers have had "real" jobs in the West, but came to Asia to live and to teach while they were still in their primes. Have you followed the news at all lately? Do you know what the job market is like in, say, America? There aren't no cushy jobs to make a small fortune on to retire on later and then kick back for the rest of one's days in Asia. That book is closed, sir. Most people working today will have to continue working 'til they drop.

[AnkertilBrewer]

Extra retirees may make things harder on younger people who have to work to live here.

The younger people always have the option of returning to their home country and getting a real job. They could work there for 30 to 40 years and then move to Chiang Mai. Kind of like what the current retirees did.

Or move to Vietnam to teach English. More money to be made there.

There are 2 problems with your post.

1. Teaching is a real job.
   
2. The job market in the west, and particularly in America, is really bad these days. The retirement you talk of in 30-40 years won't exist. People are already talking about pushing the retirement age further and further back. Teachers are actually making more money in Asia than they can back home, now that "efficiency" guarantees maximal hours for minimal pay.
   
3. Vietnam pays a bit more, but has other problems. Besides, we were talking about Thialand, not, let's say, Kuwait.
   

[uptheos]

Extra retirees may make things harder on younger people who have to work to live here.

The younger people always have the option of returning to their home country and getting a real job. They could work there for 30 to 40 years and then move to Chiang Mai. Kind of like what the current retirees did.

Or move to Vietnam to teach English. More money to be made there.

There are 2 problems with your post.

1. Teaching is a real job.
   
2. The job market in the west, and particularly in America, is really bad these days. The retirement you talk of in 30-40 years won't exist. People are already talking about pushing the retirement age further and further back. Teachers are actually making more money in Asia than they can back home, now that "efficiency" guarantees maximal hours for minimal pay.
   
3. Vietnam pays a bit more, but has other problems. Besides, we were talking about Thialand, not, let's say, Kuwait.
   

Is America experiencing a 'brain drain' to Asia?

[mesquite]

There are 2 problems with your post.

1. 
   
2. 
   
3. 
   

OK, stick to teaching English and forget about basic math.

Edited August 16, 2012 by mesquite

[Ricardo]

How can we keep Chiang Mai a well-kept-secret, if these sites keep blabbing ?

Highlight the negatives, make up some horrific events. Earthquakes, flooding, toxic air, rivers of blood, tuk tuk drivers.

Plus to note, that we're within range of North Korea's nuclear-tipped missiles, perhaps ?

In the interests of lightening the tone of the thread a little, I can reassure other local posters that I'm currently On-Duty sitting on my front-terrace, Chang-Draught in hand & watching for the incoming missiles, and will post on this thread if i spot any suspicious mushroom-clouds or missiles coming our way !

Cue the theme to 'Dad's Army' !

[AnkertilBrewer]

There are 2 problems with your post.

1. 
   
2. 
   
3. 
   

OK, stick to teaching English and forget about basic math.

Ah, c'mon, that post is just a flame.

[LawrenceChee]

The top teachers in Singapore and Korea who turned private earn more than the CEOs of some companies

So yes I respect it as a real job ...if u have talents and passion any vocation U take on you will make a success story out of it .

If you are mediocre or average performing you cannot fault the low pay as you are being paid for what you do or can contribute

Fact of life.

[AnkertilBrewer]

The top teachers in Singapore and Korea who turned private earn more than the CEOs of some companies

So yes I respect it as a real job ...if u have talents and passion any vocation U take on you will make a success story out of it .

If you are mediocre or average performing you cannot fault the low pay as you are being paid for what you do or can contribute

Fact of life.

The pay depends on the job, not on the ability of the teacher to contribute. The standard jobs – the ones that will get you a visa – pay a lowish salary, which is fairly standardized. For example, if you teach in a university, there's not much leeway on the pay, whether you are awesome or terrible. In fact, there's been a trend to slice teacher benefits. By your logic, all university teachers must be mediocre or less, because they aren't making a high salary.

The correlation between pay and ability just doesn't really exist. Some people are better at securing higher paying teaching jobs, but that doesn't mean they are better teachers (they may just be willing to work double the hours, or be "on call" for the boss).

[LawrenceChee]

Hopefully one day you will find that correlation ....

Many in TV understand what it means To take risks, reap the financial rewards and retire in the lifestyle you envy ...

Best of luck to you and your teaching career

[AnkertilBrewer]

Hopefully one day you will find that correlation ....

Many in TV understand what it means To take risks, reap the financial rewards and retire in the lifestyle you envy ...

Best of luck to you and your teaching career

Thanks. I'm actually not a teacher by profession. It's just what I do to get visa to live overseas. But I do it well. I'm more about the free time for my other interests.

[Ricardo]

How can we keep Chiang Mai a well-kept-secret, if these sites keep blabbing ?

Which part was arrogant or sneering? I said I'd like to retire here myself. I'm just being honest, and retirees themselves say they want to keep CM a secret from other retirees. So, if you all don't want more retirees, why should younger people, when our reasons are mostly practical = increasing prices and stagnant low salaries. I got nothing against old people. But, frankly, younger people who work on teacher's salaries will never be able to afford to retire in CM themselves, and even though they work full-time, can't afford half the lifestyle the retirees are enjoying. Go in a fancy western restaurant. Look around. See any teachers?

So, like I said, I'm just looking at the situation objectively. Extra retirees may make things harder on younger people who have to work to live here. That's not arrogance or sneering. The part about seeing old white guys everywhere, and them becoming part of the scenery in CM, well, it sounds like the retirees themselves don't want to see too many other seniors.

Cheers

"retirees themselves say they want to keep CM a secret from other retirees"

Apologies for my having inadvertently started this hare, the smiley at the end of my original post was intended to indicate, that it was of course a joke-comment that we might be trying to keep CM a secret !

As if we ever could keep it a secret when we blab all the time online, about what an interesting/varied/multicultural place it is, that we find ourselves inhabiting, in our later-years.

Good luck to the backpackers who find they like it too, and those who manage to live here by teaching, I have a younger friend who has taught at local schools for several years, and therefore know what a financial-struggle it can be, the rising-prices (and the GFC and strong-Baht) affect all of us.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Ricardo

[AnkertilBrewer]

well said Ricardo.

[sitta]

Yes, and when Barry 'falls in love' with a lady and buy her a house and a car and having a few more visits to the hospitals, he might reconsider his relocation.

How many of you "'falls in love' with a lady and buy her a house and a car" and lost out?

[Mapguy]

The last thing Chiang Mai needs is Fox viewers.