Keep in mind, expat is not the same thing as immigrant.

Well it is, but expats don't like reminding of the fact.

No it isn't.

For example, a Mexican in the USA may have a goal to work five years in the USA in order to save enough money to buy his family a small farm in a rural area of Mexico. He's an expat. Not an immigrant. An immigrant is working towards or has achieved the goal of citizenship in the new country and indeed more objective measures of integration can more easily be applied to actual immigrants.

Keep in mind, expat is not the same thing as immigrant.

Well it is, but expats don't like reminding of the fact.

No it isn't.

For example, a Mexican in the USA may have a goal to work five years in the USA in order to save enough money to buy his family a small farm in a rural area of Mexico. He's an expat. Not an immigrant. An immigrant is working towards or has achieved the goal of citizenship in the new country and indeed more objective measures of integration can more easily be applied to actual immigrants.

Then he's a temporary immigrant - but thanks for proving my point about not liking to be reminded of the fact.

It has been my observation that the most reliable guarantee of failure in Thailand is to believe the lies you tell yourself.

Keep in mind, expat is not the same thing as immigrant.

Well it is, but expats don't like reminding of the fact.

No it isn't.

For example, a Mexican in the USA may have a goal to work five years in the USA in order to save enough money to buy his family a small farm in a rural area of Mexico. He's an expat. Not an immigrant. An immigrant is working towards or has achieved the goal of citizenship in the new country and indeed more objective measures of integration can more easily be applied to actual immigrants.

Then he's a temporary immigrant - but thanks for proving my point about not liking to be reminded of the fact.

However you play the semantic games, there is no great point in such a person integrating into American life or even learning any more English than helps him meet his personal goals, which in the example are entirely external to anything to do with the USA.

Who are we kidding here? This is the same old story we've seen a thousand times here. Expats/immigrants to Thailand who HAVE intensely integrated into Thailand looking down on the expats who have not, whether by choice or personal difficulty. Making moral judgments about them when you don't know the details of their life or whether their adaptation actually makes much more sense for their personal values and life goals.

My idea of a perfect retirement was to move to a country where I didn't speak the language so I could live quietly and happily in ignorant bliss. Then through osmosis I began learning Thai. Took the blush right off the rose.

These days I live by this mantra:

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know where to bury the bodies of those I had to kill along the way!

My idea of a perfect retirement was to move to a country where I didn't speak the language so I could live quietly and happily in ignorant bliss. Then through osmosis I began learning Thai. Took the blush right off the rose.

These days I live by this mantra:

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know where to bury the bodies of those I had to kill along the way!

Yeah, that blasted osmosis. It'll get you every time!

I prefer to be subversive in a slow methodical way. My intention is to influence a few people to think creatively, and not accept everything without question.

I anticipate the first successful conversion by 2030.

Well, best to hang up the togs because it's already the year 2555.

Expecting things to be logical.

Trusting others.

Note to self.........TV members don't like a lot of words.

You're right, try to remember it.

Note to self.........TV members don't like a lot of words.

You're right, try to remember it.

Okay.

( that was a one word answer, that's a good start, I'm very proud of myself. )

Some of us have lived as ex-pats in more than one country,

I thought you were only here as a tourist?

(So in what countries have you lived as an ex-pat?)

I never claimed to be an ex-pat in Thailand......I named Africa, Germany, Spain and China......not Thailand.

Yes, but was you a ex-pat in those other countries, or for instance in the forces in Germany,

If so, maybe that doesn't count as being ex-pat.

Otherwise I think your post is very good, a lot of common sense in it.

TLDR.

Where is the dog poop guy? He has a good system.

The OP's original 914 word post may be summarised as follows:

• abide
  
• the most popular rubric is not always the rule of law
  
• business success requires dilligence
  

A New Yorker in the West Indies couldn't believe I walked around unarmed.

To me that was an alien concept....all about inviting what is worst in society....in the end his nerves snapped and he returned home.

No doubt to his "safe" society.

The mind boggles!

A grizzly attacked and killed a lone backpacker in Denali National Park and Preserve on Friday after the man encountered the bear next to a river and lingered there snapping pictures, according to the National Park Service.

Yup They need to give them grizzlys some culture courses.

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2012/08/25/2599545/hiker-killed-by-grizzly-bear-in.html#storylink=cpy

A New Yorker in the West Indies couldn't believe I walked around unarmed.

To me that was an alien concept....all about inviting what is worst in society....in the end his nerves snapped and he returned home.

No doubt to his "safe" society.

The mind boggles!

A grizzly attacked and killed a lone backpacker in Denali National Park and Preserve on Friday after the man encountered the bear next to a river and lingered there snapping pictures, according to the National Park Service.

Yup They need to give them grizzlys some culture courses.

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2...l#storylink=cpy

Wonder if they downloaded the photos.

A New Yorker in the West Indies couldn't believe I walked around unarmed.

To me that was an alien concept....all about inviting what is worst in society....in the end his nerves snapped and he returned home.

No doubt to his "safe" society.

The mind boggles!

A grizzly attacked and killed a lone backpacker in Denali National Park and Preserve on Friday after the man encountered the bear next to a river and lingered there snapping pictures, according to the National Park Service.

Yup They need to give them grizzlys some culture courses.

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2...l#storylink=cpy

Wonder if they downloaded the photos.

Yes they did.

There is a moral to the story. You probably should not hang around a grizzly unless you are carrying a gun because not everywhere is safe. Some places are normal. Of course that is normal for Alaska.

The first time I went to Chiang Mai was with an English tobacco buyer. He carried a gun. I had two guns. He was impressed. We drank in a bar simply called the Pub. It is still there. You could go and ask them about old times in Chiang Mai. They might remember. I don't think we were the worst in society.

A New Yorker in the West Indies couldn't believe I walked around unarmed.

To me that was an alien concept....all about inviting what is worst in society....in the end his nerves snapped and he returned home.

No doubt to his "safe" society.

The mind boggles!

A grizzly attacked and killed a lone backpacker in Denali National Park and Preserve on Friday after the man encountered the bear next to a river and lingered there snapping pictures, according to the National Park Service.

Yup They need to give them grizzlys some culture courses.

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2...l#storylink=cpy

Wonder if they downloaded the photos.

Yes they did.

The bears?

A grizzly attacked and killed a lone backpacker in Denali National Park and Preserve on Friday after the man encountered the bear next to a river and lingered there snapping pictures, according to the National Park Service.

Yup They need to give them grizzlys some culture courses.

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2...l#storylink=cpy

Wonder if they downloaded the photos.

Yes they did.

The bears?

No, the guys that shot the bear. He, the bear that is, had carried off the camera along with the body presumably to eat later I don't know if he was going to look at the photos over dinner. Not now of course because the bear is dead. The guys with the guns killed him.

A grizzly attacked and killed a lone backpacker in Denali National Park and Preserve on Friday after the man encountered the bear next to a river and lingered there snapping pictures, according to the National Park Service.

Yup They need to give them grizzlys some culture courses.

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2...l#storylink=cpy

Wonder if they downloaded the photos.

Yes they did.

The bears?

Evidence for self defence case.

A New Yorker in the West Indies couldn't believe I walked around unarmed.

To me that was an alien concept....all about inviting what is worst in society....in the end his nerves snapped and he returned home.

No doubt to his "safe" society.

The mind boggles!

My brother worked over there for two years and that was one of the first questions he was asked, What are you carrying?. He laughed it off until he got mugged within the first week. He was introduced to one of Mr. Glocks little children soon after and had it for the remainder of the job.

@ theblether

Good post again, and the points you make just about cover it. You could condense it to Common Sense.

However, I see expats as two seperate animals:

1. A foreigner who is employed by a corporate on an "Expat Package"

2. A foreigner who has moved to Thailand and lives here under his own steam.

Generally those employed by the corporates have everything done for them, and these are the ones who have the most problems when dealing with Thais for problems outside the normal. The expat living under his own means will adapt a lot faster as he/she usually has no choice.

The second group (2.) can further be broken down to:

a. Those living in a commercial area, eg. Bkk, CM, Pattaya, Phuket, etc.

b. Those living "Up Country"/Issan.

These two groups are again different animals with different needs.

Generally those employed by the corporates have everything done for them, and these are the ones who have the most problems when dealing with Thais for problems outside the normal. The expat living under his own means will adapt a lot faster as he/she usually has no choice.

If only it were that simple....... Alas it is not.

Me too.........it's tedious going through the same old answers every single day.

then perhaps you could spare us the need to reply by not posting truisms and the blatantly obvious.

Generally those employed by the corporates have everything done for them, and these are the ones who have the most problems when dealing with Thais for problems outside the normal. The expat living under his own means will adapt a lot faster as he/she usually has no choice.

If only it were that simple....... Alas it is not.

aye, especially if the driver and maids insist on taking Sundays off.

However, I see expats as two seperate animals:

1. A foreigner who is employed by a corporate on an "Expat Package"

2. A foreigner who has moved to Thailand and lives here under his own steam.

The second group (2.) can further be broken down to:

a. Those living in a commercial area, eg. Bkk, CM, Pattaya, Phuket, etc.

b. Those living "Up Country"/Issan.

These two groups are again different animals with different needs.

The second group may be better broken down into:

a. Those who need to work/eke out a living

b. Those who don't. e.g. retired

This factor could have a lot more to do with how the expat intergrates (or fails!).

Generally those employed by the corporates have everything done for them, and these are the ones who have the most problems when dealing with Thais for problems outside the normal. The expat living under his own means will adapt a lot faster as he/she usually has no choice.

If only it were that simple....... Alas it is not.

aye, especially if the driver and maids insist on taking Sundays off.

there are people who insist that the driver and maids take off not only Sundays but Saturdays too except when there are guests in the house.

Generally those employed by the corporates have everything done for them, and these are the ones who have the most problems when dealing with Thais for problems outside the normal. The expat living under his own means will adapt a lot faster as he/she usually has no choice.

If only it were that simple....... Alas it is not.

Agree, it gets complicated.

However, I see expats as two seperate animals:

1. A foreigner who is employed by a corporate on an "Expat Package"

2. A foreigner who has moved to Thailand and lives here under his own steam.

The second group (2.) can further be broken down to:

a. Those living in a commercial area, eg. Bkk, CM, Pattaya, Phuket, etc.

b. Those living "Up Country"/Issan.

These two groups are again different animals with different needs.

The second group may be better broken down into:

a. Those who need to work/eke out a living

b. Those who don't. e.g. retired

This factor could have a lot more to do with how the expat intergrates (or fails!).

Again agree, the more you look at it the more different agendas come to light.

I'm beginning to understand that the definition of a successful life in Thailand is feeling it necessary to lecture others on what is and is not an acceptable way for them to live their own life in Thailand.

and if you don't immerse completely in Thai culture, don't believe in ghosts, are not inclined to learn the language, do not savour lao khao evenings three times a week with three dozen Thai friends you are bound to fail miserably