Do We Even Understand Each Other?

[GuestHouse]

I'm often struck by what seems to be a total lack of understanding of each others lives amongst the expat community. From my own perspective, the gap between the professed understanding of MNC Expat life expressed by privately funded expats is remarkable - what is obtain said about our lives by our non MNC Expats is so far from reality that I wonder if they've even met an MNC Expat.

But it goes both ways, while my very best friend here in Thailand is what I shall refer to as a privately funded expat, not yet retired but not working, I actually don't really know another folk like him (beyond superficial acquaintance).

Expats in the cities don't seem to understand the lives of expats in the countryside who return the favour with equal measures of bepuzzlement - and nobody seems to understand the lives of expat english language teachers - not even other teachers.

So I'm left wondering, what chance of ever understanding Thais.

The one hope is of course expats who are not actually expats, they seem to understand everything.

[kurnell]

Yep, I don't follow. Seriously

[Ulysses G.]

You might explain MNC. Most people that don't work for them will not get the abbreviation. I'm not sure it will make the meaning of the post clear, but it should help a little.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[JurgenG]

Yep, I don't follow. Seriously

Right, what the hell is he talking about ?

But you have to admit he made his point, we definitively don't understand each other.

Edited August 27, 2012 by JurgenG

[OxfordWill]

I am fortunate enough to know a good mix of the situations you describe and would say that we understand one another all very well. But then we socialise face to face, maybe you are referring only to the discussions online.

[roamer]

Assuming MNC= Multi national corporation and not Manchester numismatics club.

However given that lately I may fall into the latter category of;

"the one hope is of course expats who are not actually expats, they seem to understand everything."

I would say you need to get out more GH, never had a problem socialising with people from either "group". The ones that I don't meet don't come out to play, up to them.

[rijb]

People are usually less interested in understanding others than in getting others to understand them.

Speaking of TLAs (three letter acronyms)...

"Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the VP is such a VIP, shouldn't we keep the PC on the QT? 'Cause if it leaks to the VC he could end up MIA, and then we'd all be put on KP." - Airman Adrian Cronauer

[Pseudolus]

I have been both over the last 7/8 years in various countries. When you have a big firm picking up your rent tab, paying your bills, sorting out your visas and tax, and paying you a salary that frankly you are not worth in your home country (if we are all honest about it) but due to skill shortages are worth it in a foreign country, life is exceptionally easy. Wake up - closet full of clean ironed clothes from the maid (paid for of course and from a pre-approved agency by your firm). Breakfast is ready, kids are attended to, kiss goodbye to the wife and step into the car with driver, and go to the office. Do your work, either drinks with the boys then home with the driver standing by, or straight home to dinner. When going to the home country, you have a month off, business class flights paid for, so all you have to do is live. Compare that to the life of a non mnc expat, and you can see where the gulf appears.

Non MNC expat, but still a firm sponsored expat. They get a job lot of cash each month and nothing more. They can afford the maid, driver etc but they have to sort it all out for himself. Still an easier life, but with more disturbances.

The expat who is going native has to deal with everything by themselves and feels the full weight of Thai ludicrous red tape.

When you are in the MNC world, you live in a bubble basically regardless of if you realise it or not and thus it is difficult to realise what the guy doing it all themselves have to go through. From the guy doing it all themselves, they could be jealous and maybe a tad irritated that the MNC guy has it so easy. But everyone has their own problems. no matter what all though the scale of the problems vary massively.

[WebBangkok]

I will ask the wifey later. Apparently she knows EVERYTHING.

[overherebc]

I will ask the wifey later. Apparently she knows EVERYTHING.

I may have married her sister.

For sale.

2012 Hayabusa. Only 350 kilomtres on the clock.

I think I misunderstood " do whatever you want "

[pigeonjake]

i had a job in bangkok, samutprakarn, operations manager, i hated it, we had to be away from our farm, we didnt have any friends anly the people i worked with, i lasted 4 months,

finnished and went back contracting out to africa,luanda doing my 8 weeks on and 4 off, great i could do what i wanted to do when i got home relax on our farm taking care of the pigs ect,

life is what you get out of it its not all about money, i came here to get away from that,

yes i still work, but i have plenty of time at home, with the wife and kids,

i suppose it could be that im only from a small town in england too, and bkk was to much for me and the wife, i dont know, i just know that we both didnt like it there,, and it was a good job i had,

just my thoughts jake

[uptheos]

Sorry don't understand OP

[pigeonjake]

right please understand i was just a ragy arsed welder,

but what i think he is saying, and please correct me if im wrong, and i am a lot,

is that the ones who work for the rich companys and get paid really well, with maid car first class travel and that, dont understand the ones who work for the middle class company, one nobody understands the falang who lives on a farm,

simple, so i think, lol, well ive done all 3, and to be honest i like being on the farm best,

i think it just boils down to comunication, my grandad used to say theres nowt wrong with rate folk,

jake

[PattayaParent]

I have been both over the last 7/8 years in various countries. When you have a big firm picking up your rent tab, paying your bills, sorting out your visas and tax, and paying you a salary that frankly you are not worth in your home country (if we are all honest about it) but due to skill shortages are worth it in a foreign country, life is exceptionally easy. Wake up - closet full of clean ironed clothes from the maid (paid for of course and from a pre-approved agency by your firm). Breakfast is ready, kids are attended to, kiss goodbye to the wife and step into the car with driver, and go to the office. Do your work, either drinks with the boys then home with the driver standing by, or straight home to dinner. When going to the home country, you have a month off, business class flights paid for, so all you have to do is live. Compare that to the life of a non mnc expat, and you can see where the gulf appears.

Non MNC expat, but still a firm sponsored expat. They get a job lot of cash each month and nothing more. They can afford the maid, driver etc but they have to sort it all out for himself. Still an easier life, but with more disturbances.

The expat who is going native has to deal with everything by themselves and feels the full weight of Thai ludicrous red tape.

When you are in the MNC world, you live in a bubble basically regardless of if you realise it or not and thus it is difficult to realise what the guy doing it all themselves have to go through. From the guy doing it all themselves, they could be jealous and maybe a tad irritated that the MNC guy has it so easy. But everyone has their own problems. no matter what all though the scale of the problems vary massively.

You seem to be one of those that the OP says misundestands MNC expat life and has probably never met a MNC expat as I am one and have nothing like what you describe.

[Pormax]

I certainly don't understand the OP. Can't see what his problem is!!!

[CharlieH]

Sorry OP but I was lost at "MNC", thanks to the other guys for explaining that part.

[SlyAnimal]

/agree with the OP

But that's because people essentially live in different worlds here. To give a brief description of each I'd say:

Multi National Corporation (MNC) Expats - Western lifestyle, but in Thailand. Working for a Western company

Retired - Not working, but still have money.

Urban Expats - Western lifestyle, but in Thailand.

Rural Expats - Thai lifestyle

Teacher Expats - Thai lifestyle. Working for a Thai company/school.

With most Retired Expats living in an urban area, they often have something in common with the MNC Expats, even though one works and the other doesn't. Likewise, the Retired Expats who live in rural areas would have more in common with the Teacher Expats, as they would have many of the same problems etc associated with integrating into a Thai lifestyle.

As I think that the level of integration into Thai society and acceptance of "Thai style" is the main difference in understanding between expats. As if you have money, you're less likely to integrate into Thai society, as it's easy to stick with what you know. Likewise if you live in a rural area, you're more likely to integrate into Thai society, because there simply aren't as many choices.

Edit: Oh and although working could be seen as common ground for MNC Expats and Teachers, it's not really. Because MNC Expats often earn more than 10x what a teacher does, and are also in a completely different profession.

Edit2: Also the OP said "What chance is there of ever understanding Thais?". As an Urban, MNC Expat, you'll probably find it very difficult to understand your average Thai person. Although you'll probably meet a lot of westernised Thai people through work, who are effectively westerners. For someone living rural, especially teachers, they'll learn to understand "Thai style" to some degree at least.

Edited August 28, 2012 by SlyAnimal

[pigeonjake]

thats just what i was going to say,,

well put

[chrisinth]

@GH

I do see your point, but have experienced this slightly differently.

I like to think of an “Expat community” the same way as any other community anywhere. It is tiered the same way in that people are here for different reasons, doing different jobs and hanging around in different circles. There are different viewpoints, as there should be, different solutions to different problems. We have people employed in management, workers, teachers, retired folk, bar-flies, etc, etc.

Of course living “abroad” can present unique challenges.

My wife ran a bar/restaurant for almost 13 years; not a girlie bar, and it acted as a meeting place for some of the expats living up here. The customers ranged from the 1.5 million baht/month MNC expats to the 150,000 baht workers (Thai packages) to the 25,000 baht teachers to the “on the bones of their @rse” wasters. They were (and still are) a great bunch of guys & girls and they learnt how to talk and argue together because of their restricted choices of venue, something that probably wouldn’t happen back in Farangland.

[ggold]

/agree with the OP

But that's because people essentially live in different worlds here. To give a brief description of each I'd say:

Multi National Corporation (MNC) Expats - Western lifestyle, but in Thailand. Working for a Western company

Retired - Not working, but still have money.

Urban Expats - Western lifestyle, but in Thailand.

Rural Expats - Thai lifestyle

Teacher Expats - Thai lifestyle. Working for a Thai company/school.

With most Retired Expats living in an urban area, they often have something in common with the MNC Expats, even though one works and the other doesn't. Likewise, the Retired Expats who live in rural areas would have more in common with the Teacher Expats, as they would have many of the same problems etc associated with integrating into a Thai lifestyle.

As I think that the level of integration into Thai society and acceptance of "Thai style" is the main difference in understanding between expats. As if you have money, you're less likely to integrate into Thai society, as it's easy to stick with what you know. Likewise if you live in a rural area, you're more likely to integrate into Thai society, because there simply aren't as many choices.

Edit: Oh and although working could be seen as common ground for MNC Expats and Teachers, it's not really. Because MNC Expats often earn more than 10x what a teacher does, and are also in a completely different profession.

Edit2: Also the OP said "What chance is there of ever understanding Thais?". As an Urban, MNC Expat, you'll probably find it very difficult to understand your average Thai person. Although you'll probably meet a lot of westernised Thai people through work, who are effectively westerners. For someone living rural, especially teachers, they'll learn to understand "Thai style" to some degree at least.

I beg to differ as far as rural expats having something in common with expat teachers! I would suggest (certainly those I have met) that expat teachers are generally here because they cant get a job back home or on the run from some sort of truoble and are not to be trusted even by other expats. I stopped socialising with the local farang community because they all seem to be a bunch of <deleted>...... Ups, sorry that is the only way to explain them.

As for intergrating into a thai lifestyle, surely that can be done even in the cities, it is after all up to the individual as to how much they immerse themselves in the culture!

Sent from my GT-P6200 using Thaivisa Connect App

[pigeonjake]

thats going to upset some teachers when they out from school

hardhat on i think

[maxme]

/agree with the OP

But that's because people essentially live in different worlds here. To give a brief description of each I'd say:

Multi National Corporation (MNC) Expats - Western lifestyle, but in Thailand. Working for a Western company

Retired - Not working, but still have money.

Urban Expats - Western lifestyle, but in Thailand.

Rural Expats - Thai lifestyle

Teacher Expats - Thai lifestyle. Working for a Thai company/school.

With most Retired Expats living in an urban area, they often have something in common with the MNC Expats, even though one works and the other doesn't. Likewise, the Retired Expats who live in rural areas would have more in common with the Teacher Expats, as they would have many of the same problems etc associated with integrating into a Thai lifestyle.

As I think that the level of integration into Thai society and acceptance of "Thai style" is the main difference in understanding between expats. As if you have money, you're less likely to integrate into Thai society, as it's easy to stick with what you know. Likewise if you live in a rural area, you're more likely to integrate into Thai society, because there simply aren't as many choices.

Edit: Oh and although working could be seen as common ground for MNC Expats and Teachers, it's not really. Because MNC Expats often earn more than 10x what a teacher does, and are also in a completely different profession.

Edit2: Also the OP said "What chance is there of ever understanding Thais?". As an Urban, MNC Expat, you'll probably find it very difficult to understand your average Thai person. Although you'll probably meet a lot of westernised Thai people through work, who are effectively westerners. For someone living rural, especially teachers, they'll learn to understand "Thai style" to some degree at least.

I beg to differ as far as rural expats having something in common with expat teachers! I would suggest (certainly those I have met) that expat teachers are generally here because they cant get a job back home or on the run from some sort of truoble and are not to be trusted even by other expats. I stopped socialising with the local farang community because they all seem to be a bunch of <deleted>...... Ups, sorry that is the only way to explain them.

As for intergrating into a thai lifestyle, surely that can be done even in the cities, it is after all up to the individual as to how much they immerse themselves in the culture!

Sent from my GT-P6200 using Thaivisa Connect App

You must really live in a shithole for making such an absurd statement. There are different reasons for people choosing different kinds of professions not just one.

Edited August 28, 2012 by maxme

[Cypress Hill]

I have been both over the last 7/8 years in various countries. When you have a big firm picking up your rent tab, paying your bills, sorting out your visas and tax, and paying you a salary that frankly you are not worth in your home country (if we are all honest about it) but due to skill shortages are worth it in a foreign country, life is exceptionally easy. Wake up - closet full of clean ironed clothes from the maid (paid for of course and from a pre-approved agency by your firm). Breakfast is ready, kids are attended to, kiss goodbye to the wife and step into the car with driver, and go to the office. Do your work, either drinks with the boys then home with the driver standing by, or straight home to dinner. When going to the home country, you have a month off, business class flights paid for, so all you have to do is live. Compare that to the life of a non mnc expat, and you can see where the gulf appears.

Non MNC expat, but still a firm sponsored expat. They get a job lot of cash each month and nothing more. They can afford the maid, driver etc but they have to sort it all out for himself. Still an easier life, but with more disturbances.

The expat who is going native has to deal with everything by themselves and feels the full weight of Thai ludicrous red tape.

When you are in the MNC world, you live in a bubble basically regardless of if you realise it or not and thus it is difficult to realise what the guy doing it all themselves have to go through. From the guy doing it all themselves, they could be jealous and maybe a tad irritated that the MNC guy has it so easy. But everyone has their own problems. no matter what all though the scale of the problems vary massively.

BOOM !! That's pretty much it, right there

[theblether]

Yep, I don't follow. Seriously

It's a very clever troll by Guesthouse......he had to create a preamble so that he could get to this line at the end......

The one hope is of course expats who are not actually expats, they seem to understand everything.

I gave him a like for his better than average attempt at trolling

Guesthouse, and everyone else that thinks that it's an achievement being an ex-pat in Thailand........listen to this bit of sage advice from theblether.

There is no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country that is a £500 flight away from the UK, there is no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country that actively works to ensure you know you are a perpetual guest, no achievement to be an ex-pat in a country where the laws were changed to make it even more difficult for good and well intentioned people to create and maintain a family life, no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country where your property rights are abysmal and by dint you cannot truly own your own family home in your own name, no achievement in doing business in a country where you have to adopt a company structure with imposed Thai nominees, no achievement in selecting a country for retirement where you have ensured you pension has been frozen as the local government will not enter into treaty agreements.

Quite frankly a lot of people would look at the terms and conditions of living as a long term ex-pat in Thailand and decide that it's an act of madness to pick that country of all countries for long term ex-pat living and retirement. You would be better off in Malaysia, at least you would have some rights there.

If you want to see the people that have got it right, stand at the airport and watch the guys flying in from the oil rigs, watch the guys that fly in for long term winter holidays and more, watch the guys that are still making a fortune in the UK and US that can afford to drop £20 grand a year on vacations and not blink, watch the multiple thousands of people that regard Thailand as a good Asia base and nothing more.

In short, watch the guys that have not allowed themselves to become entrapped in a moveable web.

Take Thailand on your terms.....as soon as you start bending to accommodate the Byzantine local conditions you may as well stay bent over as at some point just about every ex-pat gets shafted to some degree. I know of several people who are looking for the exit doors due to all of the above so don't be having a go at the people that knew it already Guesthouse......there's a good boy.

..................A highly rated and successful businessman in Thailand recently said to me, and he was right, that people are jealous of guys that can fly in and out of the country at a whim, guys like Ianforbes had it right, snow-birding into Thailand when Thailand was at it's best, and returning to their home countries or elsewhere when the weather turned for the worse. People are jealous as they couldn't even remotely afford the air fare to visit home, never mind vacation back home. This gentleman mentioned that if had his time again that's the life pattern he would go for. If any of you guys are feeling trapped in Thailand,......it's of your own doing, you'll never see theblether fall in that trap......maybe that's because I was living in an ex-pat community when I was just out of nappies??? I've seen it all before.

There's a point to that.........many of the people who make a genuine success of ex-pat life came to it young, as teenagers and their twenties. Some people have lived all of their lives as ex-pats and made successful and delightful lives for themselves. Those young people backpacking around the place are putting down good foundations for the future.....and yet in many cases they are reviled by the old codgers that didn't have the bottle to have a go at the same age. Oh well, there's nowt queerer than folk.

.

Edited August 28, 2012 by theblether

[Morakot]

Multi National Corporation (MNC) Expats - Western lifestyle, but in Thailand. Working for a Western company

Retired - Not working, but still have money.

Urban Expats - Western lifestyle, but in Thailand.

Rural Expats - Thai lifestyle

Teacher Expats - Thai lifestyle. Working for a Thai company/school.

Why is living in rural Thailand equated to a Thai lifestyle? And does why living in a city means Western lifestyle?

I'm sure diversity is an interesting topic, but this thread seems to be stuck in fixed categories with a healthy portion of muddle.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Morakot

[Morakot]

Note to self: Must read theblether's posts. Will ask my assistant for the summary later

Edited August 28, 2012 by Morakot

[theblether]

Note to self: Must read theblether's posts. Will ask my assistant for the summary later

Good plan.......Semper suggested that I use less words.....I managed it for two posts but my blethery nature got the better of me.

[smokie36]

Note to self: Must read theblether's posts. Will ask my assistant for the summary later

Good plan.......Semper suggested that I use less words.....I managed it for two posts but my blethery nature got the better of me.

I read your post...very well said.

I had the opportunity to move mock and stock to Thailand three years ago but didn't as the conditions and future of the opoortunity looked sketchy to me.

When I do, it will be with everything in place to give me the best opportunities for a happy retirement in Asia.

Note I wouldn't limit myself to Thailand for that.

[GuestHouse]

Sorry TheBletherer, I had not intended this as a trolling post, nor as a debate over what is and what is not an 'achievement' regardless of whether some have or have not attained the disputed 'achievement'.

But we have had a range of responses which demonstrate a truth behind my observation. Your own missive included.

[theblether]

Sorry TheBletherer, I had not intended this as a trolling post, nor as a debate over what is and what is not an 'achievement' regardless of whether some have or have not attained the disputed 'achievement'.

But we have had a range of responses which demonstrate a truth behind my observation. Your own missive included.