Do We Even Understand Each Other?

[Pseudolus]

I have been both over the last 7/8 years in various countries. When you have a big firm picking up your rent tab, paying your bills, sorting out your visas and tax, and paying you a salary that frankly you are not worth in your home country (if we are all honest about it) but due to skill shortages are worth it in a foreign country, life is exceptionally easy. Wake up - closet full of clean ironed clothes from the maid (paid for of course and from a pre-approved agency by your firm). Breakfast is ready, kids are attended to, kiss goodbye to the wife and step into the car with driver, and go to the office. Do your work, either drinks with the boys then home with the driver standing by, or straight home to dinner. When going to the home country, you have a month off, business class flights paid for, so all you have to do is live. Compare that to the life of a non mnc expat, and you can see where the gulf appears.

Non MNC expat, but still a firm sponsored expat. They get a job lot of cash each month and nothing more. They can afford the maid, driver etc but they have to sort it all out for himself. Still an easier life, but with more disturbances.

The expat who is going native has to deal with everything by themselves and feels the full weight of Thai ludicrous red tape.

When you are in the MNC world, you live in a bubble basically regardless of if you realise it or not and thus it is difficult to realise what the guy doing it all themselves have to go through. From the guy doing it all themselves, they could be jealous and maybe a tad irritated that the MNC guy has it so easy. But everyone has their own problems. no matter what all though the scale of the problems vary massively.

You seem to be one of those that the OP says misundestands MNC expat life and has probably never met a MNC expat as I am one and have nothing like what you describe.

Sorry that your MNC experience was not the same an mine was. Pattaya - can we assume you work in the oil business as a day rate consultant then?

[msg362]

Yep, I don't follow. Seriously

It's a very clever troll by Guesthouse......he had to create a preamble so that he could get to this line at the end......

The one hope is of course expats who are not actually expats, they seem to understand everything.

I gave him a like for his better than average attempt at trolling

Guesthouse, and everyone else that thinks that it's an achievement being an ex-pat in Thailand........listen to this bit of sage advice from theblether.

There is no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country that is a £500 flight away from the UK, there is no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country that actively works to ensure you know you are a perpetual guest, no achievement to be an ex-pat in a country where the laws were changed to make it even more difficult for good and well intentioned people to create and maintain a family life, no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country where your property rights are abysmal and by dint you cannot truly own your own family home in your own name, no achievement in doing business in a country where you have to adopt a company structure with imposed Thai nominees, no achievement in selecting a country for retirement where you have ensured you pension has been frozen as the local government will not enter into treaty agreements.

Quite frankly a lot of people would look at the terms and conditions of living as a long term ex-pat in Thailand and decide that it's an act of madness to pick that country of all countries for long term ex-pat living and retirement. You would be better off in Malaysia, at least you would have some rights there.

If you want to see the people that have got it right, stand at the airport and watch the guys flying in from the oil rigs, watch the guys that fly in for long term winter holidays and more, watch the guys that are still making a fortune in the UK and US that can afford to drop £20 grand a year on vacations and not blink, watch the multiple thousands of people that regard Thailand as a good Asia base and nothing more.

In short, watch the guys that have not allowed themselves to become entrapped in a moveable web.

Take Thailand on your terms.....as soon as you start bending to accommodate the Byzantine local conditions you may as well stay bent over as at some point just about every ex-pat gets shafted to some degree. I know of several people who are looking for the exit doors due to all of the above so don't be having a go at the people that knew it already Guesthouse......there's a good boy.

..................A highly rated and successful businessman in Thailand recently said to me, and he was right, that people are jealous of guys that can fly in and out of the country at a whim, guys like Ianforbes had it right, snow-birding into Thailand when Thailand was at it's best, and returning to their home countries or elsewhere when the weather turned for the worse. People are jealous as they couldn't even remotely afford the air fare to visit home, never mind vacation back home. This gentleman mentioned that if had his time again that's the life pattern he would go for. If any of you guys are feeling trapped in Thailand,......it's of your own doing, you'll never see theblether fall in that trap......maybe that's because I was living in an ex-pat community when I was just out of nappies??? I've seen it all before.

There's a point to that.........many of the people who make a genuine success of ex-pat life came to it young, as teenagers and their twenties. Some people have lived all of their lives as ex-pats and made successful and delightful lives for themselves. Those young people backpacking around the place are putting down good foundations for the future.....and yet in many cases they are reviled by the old codgers that didn't have the bottle to have a go at the same age. Oh well, there's nowt queerer than folk.

Agree with much of what you say, but it's really possible to get married, retire here and lead a far better life than Blighty. I look back most days and am still very happy to be here, red tape and all. Wonderful wife, good climate, low cost of living but above all, regardless of some inane rules, still better than the way the UK is headed.

.

Edited August 28, 2012 by msg362

[Bangkokhatter]

Yep, I don't follow. Seriously

It's a very clever troll by Guesthouse......he had to create a preamble so that he could get to this line at the end......

The one hope is of course expats who are not actually expats, they seem to understand everything.

I gave him a like for his better than average attempt at trolling

Guesthouse, and everyone else that thinks that it's an achievement being an ex-pat in Thailand........listen to this bit of sage advice from theblether.

There is no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country that is a £500 flight away from the UK, there is no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country that actively works to ensure you know you are a perpetual guest, no achievement to be an ex-pat in a country where the laws were changed to make it even more difficult for good and well intentioned people to create and maintain a family life, no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country where your property rights are abysmal and by dint you cannot truly own your own family home in your own name, no achievement in doing business in a country where you have to adopt a company structure with imposed Thai nominees, no achievement in selecting a country for retirement where you have ensured you pension has been frozen as the local government will not enter into treaty agreements.

Quite frankly a lot of people would look at the terms and conditions of living as a long term ex-pat in Thailand and decide that it's an act of madness to pick that country of all countries for long term ex-pat living and retirement. You would be better off in Malaysia, at least you would have some rights there.

If you want to see the people that have got it right, stand at the airport and watch the guys flying in from the oil rigs, watch the guys that fly in for long term winter holidays and more, watch the guys that are still making a fortune in the UK and US that can afford to drop £20 grand a year on vacations and not blink, watch the multiple thousands of people that regard Thailand as a good Asia base and nothing more.

In short, watch the guys that have not allowed themselves to become entrapped in a moveable web.

Take Thailand on your terms.....as soon as you start bending to accommodate the Byzantine local conditions you may as well stay bent over as at some point just about every ex-pat gets shafted to some degree. I know of several people who are looking for the exit doors due to all of the above so don't be having a go at the people that knew it already Guesthouse......there's a good boy.

..................A highly rated and successful businessman in Thailand recently said to me, and he was right, that people are jealous of guys that can fly in and out of the country at a whim, guys like Ianforbes had it right, snow-birding into Thailand when Thailand was at it's best, and returning to their home countries or elsewhere when the weather turned for the worse. People are jealous as they couldn't even remotely afford the air fare to visit home, never mind vacation back home. This gentleman mentioned that if had his time again that's the life pattern he would go for. If any of you guys are feeling trapped in Thailand,......it's of your own doing, you'll never see theblether fall in that trap......maybe that's because I was living in an ex-pat community when I was just out of nappies??? I've seen it all before.

There's a point to that.........many of the people who make a genuine success of ex-pat life came to it young, as teenagers and their twenties. Some people have lived all of their lives as ex-pats and made successful and delightful lives for themselves. Those young people backpacking around the place are putting down good foundations for the future.....and yet in many cases they are reviled by the old codgers that didn't have the bottle to have a go at the same age. Oh well, there's nowt queerer than folk.

.

A bit precious of yourself to think it's all about you ? and one would wonder why you bother visiting here, what with all the faults you listed above.

I think GH has it half right about the ex-pats not understanding each other, but i think it's just those on this forum that try and pidgeon hole everbody into a nice and neat category. Do not think that can work, i for one do not fit any of the profiles mentioned so far and i have no problem understanding any ex-pats i mix with, despite their various reasons for being here.

[theblether]

Yep, I don't follow. Seriously

It's a very clever troll by Guesthouse......he had to create a preamble so that he could get to this line at the end......

The one hope is of course expats who are not actually expats, they seem to understand everything.

I gave him a like for his better than average attempt at trolling

Guesthouse, and everyone else that thinks that it's an achievement being an ex-pat in Thailand........listen to this bit of sage advice from theblether.

There is no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country that is a £500 flight away from the UK, there is no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country that actively works to ensure you know you are a perpetual guest, no achievement to be an ex-pat in a country where the laws were changed to make it even more difficult for good and well intentioned people to create and maintain a family life, no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country where your property rights are abysmal and by dint you cannot truly own your own family home in your own name, no achievement in doing business in a country where you have to adopt a company structure with imposed Thai nominees, no achievement in selecting a country for retirement where you have ensured you pension has been frozen as the local government will not enter into treaty agreements.

Quite frankly a lot of people would look at the terms and conditions of living as a long term ex-pat in Thailand and decide that it's an act of madness to pick that country of all countries for long term ex-pat living and retirement. You would be better off in Malaysia, at least you would have some rights there.

If you want to see the people that have got it right, stand at the airport and watch the guys flying in from the oil rigs, watch the guys that fly in for long term winter holidays and more, watch the guys that are still making a fortune in the UK and US that can afford to drop £20 grand a year on vacations and not blink, watch the multiple thousands of people that regard Thailand as a good Asia base and nothing more.

In short, watch the guys that have not allowed themselves to become entrapped in a moveable web.

Take Thailand on your terms.....as soon as you start bending to accommodate the Byzantine local conditions you may as well stay bent over as at some point just about every ex-pat gets shafted to some degree. I know of several people who are looking for the exit doors due to all of the above so don't be having a go at the people that knew it already Guesthouse......there's a good boy.

..................A highly rated and successful businessman in Thailand recently said to me, and he was right, that people are jealous of guys that can fly in and out of the country at a whim, guys like Ianforbes had it right, snow-birding into Thailand when Thailand was at it's best, and returning to their home countries or elsewhere when the weather turned for the worse. People are jealous as they couldn't even remotely afford the air fare to visit home, never mind vacation back home. This gentleman mentioned that if had his time again that's the life pattern he would go for. If any of you guys are feeling trapped in Thailand,......it's of your own doing, you'll never see theblether fall in that trap......maybe that's because I was living in an ex-pat community when I was just out of nappies??? I've seen it all before.

There's a point to that.........many of the people who make a genuine success of ex-pat life came to it young, as teenagers and their twenties. Some people have lived all of their lives as ex-pats and made successful and delightful lives for themselves. Those young people backpacking around the place are putting down good foundations for the future.....and yet in many cases they are reviled by the old codgers that didn't have the bottle to have a go at the same age. Oh well, there's nowt queerer than folk.

.

A bit precious of yourself to think it's all about you ? and one would wonder why you bother visiting here, what with all the faults you listed above.

I think GH has it half right about the ex-pats not understanding each other, but i think it's just those on this forum that try and pidgeon hole everbody into a nice and neat category. Do not think that can work, i for one do not fit any of the profiles mentioned so far and i have no problem understanding any ex-pats i mix with, despite their various reasons for being here.

Not precious at all.........there was no need for the final line and I think the OP has acknowledged that

Now you can apply your wit to telling why any of the issues I listed would have an effect upon me visiting as a tourist? I look forward to your response.

[yermanee]

People will always form opinions about others. That's human nature. As to understanding one another it has been proven time and time again that one never knows what another person is thinking, let alone understand his/her motives or what makes them tick.

Can't understand why OP would think it has anything to do with one's position in life.

Yermanee

[Soutpeel]

I have been both over the last 7/8 years in various countries. When you have a big firm picking up your rent tab, paying your bills, sorting out your visas and tax, and paying you a salary that frankly you are not worth in your home country (if we are all honest about it) but due to skill shortages are worth it in a foreign country, life is exceptionally easy. Wake up - closet full of clean ironed clothes from the maid (paid for of course and from a pre-approved agency by your firm). Breakfast is ready, kids are attended to, kiss goodbye to the wife and step into the car with driver, and go to the office. Do your work, either drinks with the boys then home with the driver standing by, or straight home to dinner. When going to the home country, you have a month off, business class flights paid for, so all you have to do is live. Compare that to the life of a non mnc expat, and you can see where the gulf appears.

Very obvious you have no idea what you are talking about, your comments for the most part are incorrect on so many levels and does not accurately describe the typical life syle an MNC Expat in Thailand, you are providing a myopic, stereotypical description I am so furious that you forgot to mention.......

..........the Scottish smoked salmon flown out every week, the Beluga and Bolly provided free of charge and most importantly the free VIP pass to Poseidon to get executive stress relief.........

Edited August 28, 2012 by Soutpeel

[GuestHouse]

Can't understand why OP would think it has anything to do with one's position in life.

I don't even suggest it has anything to do with position in life, rather the starkly obvious point that expats living different kinds of expat life don't seem to be able to understand each other - what chance them to understand the Thais the have come to live amongst?

Please don't blame me for pointing out was has been reafirmed by the very responses above.

"Position in life" is a seperate subject that I'd not want to post in with so many Brits around, being so very sensitive to the issue as they are.

Edited August 28, 2012 by GuestHouse

[Pseudolus]

I have been both over the last 7/8 years in various countries. When you have a big firm picking up your rent tab, paying your bills, sorting out your visas and tax, and paying you a salary that frankly you are not worth in your home country (if we are all honest about it) but due to skill shortages are worth it in a foreign country, life is exceptionally easy. Wake up - closet full of clean ironed clothes from the maid (paid for of course and from a pre-approved agency by your firm). Breakfast is ready, kids are attended to, kiss goodbye to the wife and step into the car with driver, and go to the office. Do your work, either drinks with the boys then home with the driver standing by, or straight home to dinner. When going to the home country, you have a month off, business class flights paid for, so all you have to do is live. Compare that to the life of a non mnc expat, and you can see where the gulf appears.

Very obvious you have no idea what you are talking about, your comments for the most part are incorrect on so many levels and does not accurately describe the typical life syle an MNC Expat in Thailand, you are providing a myopic, stereotypical description I am so furious that you forgot to mention.......

..........the Scottish smoked salmon flown out every week, the Beluga and Bolly provided free of charge and most importantly the free VIP pass to Poseidon to get executive stress relief.........

When I was in Sudan my package was;

1. Net base salary - all tax taken care of.
   
2. Hardship allowance uplift of 30% paid out of country. Net.
   
3. Up to 4 month bonus.
   
4. Shares - options and rights issues.
   
5. Housing (provided, including maid, all bills paid).
   
6. Car and driver.
   
7. Business class flights 2 times a year for self and family.
   
8. Schooling in home country - N/A,no kids.
   
9. All the usual bits and bobs including medical, evac, pension,
   

Seems a lot of people do not know what a true MNC expat offering really is. In Indonesia that is quite a common offering as well.

The Standard in Thailand is typically;

1. Salary, Net. Maybe a hardship uplift as well
   
2. Housing allowance.
   
3. Car allowance.
   
4. Shares scheme
   
5. Pension
   
6. Bonus
   
7. Medical
   

An expat here can most likely earn in 5 days the same that a Thai of the same level will earn in a month when all put together.

Don't get it any more.

[yermanee]

Can't understand why OP would think it has anything to do with one's position in life.

I don't even suggest it has anything to do with position in life, rather the starkly obvious point that expats living different kinds of expat life don't seem to be able to understand each other - what chance them to understand the Thais the have come to live amongst?

Please don't blame me for pointing out was has been reafirmed by the very responses above.

"Position in life" is a seperate subject that I'd not want to post in with so many Brits around, being so very sensitive to the issue as they are.

May I remind you that it's you that started the notion here in this topic that there are different kinds of expats, depending on their status of expat (MNC or not).

And I do think that it has only been reaffirmed that people have different objectives in life.

Some would like to understand the Thais but the majority doesn't, and I do believe that you are one of the latter.

Yermanee

[TommoPhysicist]

I've never seen any foreigner 'integrate into Thai society' on any level.

For those of us living in rural areas and speaking Thai, we are isolated, with only our direct family for company.

I can't wait to get away from my village for my monthly trip to CM, where I can talk to other white men about whatever takes my fancy. In the village the hight of conversation is, the weather, the crops, and how spicey was that food I just ate, and pass another bottle of cheap rice whiskey.

Edited August 28, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Pseudolus]

I've never seen any foreigner 'integrate into Thai society' on any level.

For those of us living in rural areas and speaking Thai, we are isolated, with only our direct family for company.

I can't wait to get away from my village for my monthly trip to CM, where I can talk to other white men about whatever takes my fancy. In the village the hight of conversation is, the weather, the crops, and how spicey was that food I just ate, and pass another bottle of cheap rice whiskey.

not asking this to be obtuse Tommy, but seriously, are you happy like that? I think I would be on a couple of bottles of whisky and a book a day if I lived like that.

[draftvader]

/agree with the OP

But that's because people essentially live in different worlds here. To give a brief description of each I'd say:

Multi National Corporation (MNC) Expats - Western lifestyle, but in Thailand. Working for a Western company

Retired - Not working, but still have money.

Urban Expats - Western lifestyle, but in Thailand.

Rural Expats - Thai lifestyle

Teacher Expats - Thai lifestyle. Working for a Thai company/school.

With most Retired Expats living in an urban area, they often have something in common with the MNC Expats, even though one works and the other doesn't. Likewise, the Retired Expats who live in rural areas would have more in common with the Teacher Expats, as they would have many of the same problems etc associated with integrating into a Thai lifestyle.

As I think that the level of integration into Thai society and acceptance of "Thai style" is the main difference in understanding between expats. As if you have money, you're less likely to integrate into Thai society, as it's easy to stick with what you know. Likewise if you live in a rural area, you're more likely to integrate into Thai society, because there simply aren't as many choices.

Edit: Oh and although working could be seen as common ground for MNC Expats and Teachers, it's not really. Because MNC Expats often earn more than 10x what a teacher does, and are also in a completely different profession.

Edit2: Also the OP said "What chance is there of ever understanding Thais?". As an Urban, MNC Expat, you'll probably find it very difficult to understand your average Thai person. Although you'll probably meet a lot of westernised Thai people through work, who are effectively westerners. For someone living rural, especially teachers, they'll learn to understand "Thai style" to some degree at least.

I beg to differ as far as rural expats having something in common with expat teachers! I would suggest (certainly those I have met) that expat teachers are generally here because they cant get a job back home or on the run from some sort of truoble and are not to be trusted even by other expats. I stopped socialising with the local farang community because they all seem to be a bunch of <deleted>...... Ups, sorry that is the only way to explain them.

As for intergrating into a thai lifestyle, surely that can be done even in the cities, it is after all up to the individual as to how much they immerse themselves in the culture!

Sent from my GT-P6200 using Thaivisa Connect App

I would like to elaborate a touch here. Most "unqualified" teaching expats are actually on the run from themselves.

[GuestHouse]

May I remind you that it's you that started the notion here in this topic that there are different kinds of expats, depending on their status of expat (MNC or not).

And I do think that it has only been reaffirmed that people have different objectives in life.

Some would like to understand the Thais but the majority doesn't, and I do believe that you are one of the latter.

Yermanee

Yermanee, did you actually read my opening post?

If you did then please spend less time grinding your axe and a little more time sharpening your wit, since you seem to be struggling on the comprehension front.

Here's a few clues: I have observed expats living different kinds of expat life have little or no understanding of the lives each live (confirmed in responses to the thread).

I have observed that expats living in cities (nothing to do with 'status') don't seem to understand the lives of expats living in the countryside (nothing to do with 'status') and again the responses to this thread support my observation.

If you have some issues with 'status' start another thread.

As for your beliefs on my willingness or indeed ability to 'understand the Thais' - your beliefs are baseless assumptions.

[TommoPhysicist]

As for your beliefs on my willingness or indeed ability to 'understand the Thais' - your beliefs are baseless assumptions.

Understanding Thais is actually very easy.

The main problem being, once you understand them, you wish you hadn't.

Once you can converse with them, you wish you couldn't.

[geriatrickid]

umm, most MNCs have eliminated as many foreign positions as possible due to cost concerns. The days of lavish packages are over. Yes, a MD or Senior officer may score a lucrative package, but that's it. The accounting & law firms that still extend the deals expect the employee to have the billable hours to justify the expense. Have a look at the financial services companies. Their foreign expats were decimated over the last decade. The packages seem extravagant until you are the one forced to live the lifestyle. Life looks good from the outside. However, just ask parents and spouses the toll expat living takes. Expat execs get the packages because their expenses are high. They are expected to travel and to work long hours. Try getting up at 3 am for a conference call, of having the 1 am calls, and then having to get up at 7 am to beat the BKK traffic jam. I laugh at the assumption that expats have wonderful domestic staff to care for them. Try finding a reliable maid. it's not easy. Drivers? right. That's why most companies now have a pool because they can't find them. i love the part about the laundry. No matter how nicely ironed my shirt is, it doesn't compensate for the fact that it was washed in the filthy water of thailand and that no matter how fragrant the detergent, the clothes take on a damp stench. Tailors? Right. Clothes have to be ordered from Hong Kong if you want quality. Appliances? If you want something decent you pay through the teeth etc. etc.

oh sure, some will say, well we all go through the aforementioned. Not exactly. You chose to live in Thailand. Most expat execs are sent to Thailand. There's the difference. If you are going to compel a high quality person to live here, he or she will have to be taken care of or else he/she will leave.

[Scully]

I've never seen any foreigner 'integrate into Thai society' on any level.

For those of us living in rural areas and speaking Thai, we are isolated, with only our direct family for company.

I can't wait to get away from my village for my monthly trip to CM, where I can talk to other white men about whatever takes my fancy. In the village the hight of conversation is, the weather, the crops, and how spicey was that food I just ate, and pass another bottle of cheap rice whiskey.

I can sympathise with this, I spent 4 years in rural Issan living with girlfriend and in laws.

She is now an ex as this was her way of life how she liked it, not mine.

It was hard to admit to myself that leaving the girl and the lifestyle would be better for us both in the long run. It is near impossible to integrate into rural Thailand as you will always be the farang no matter what people people say.

[SlyAnimal]

Multi National Corporation (MNC) Expats - Western lifestyle, but in Thailand. Working for a Western company

Retired - Not working, but still have money.

Urban Expats - Western lifestyle, but in Thailand.

Rural Expats - Thai lifestyle

Teacher Expats - Thai lifestyle. Working for a Thai company/school.

Why is living in rural Thailand equated to a Thai lifestyle? And does why living in a city means Western lifestyle?

It was more of a generalisation. e.g. If you live in rural Thailand, you'll predominately eat Thai food, rather than western food. If you live in rural Thailand, you likely speak at least a little bit of Thai (Or soon will). If you live in rural Thailand, you likely have a few Thai friends. If you live in rural Thailand, you likely sometimes attend Thai weddings/funerals/mo lum concerts etc. You also likely understand "Thai style" better than someone who lives in an urban area, because Thais tend to become more westernised the longer they live in a big city.

For an Urban Expat, living in say Pattaya, Bangkok, Chiang Mai or even Udon Thani, it's much less likely that they'll be doing as many of the above as a Rural Expat (Although I don't live in any of these places so it's hard to say with too much accuracy). Although of course, if they're married or working as a teacher in an urban environment, then they'll likely have more interaction with Thai people/culture/style than a Retired Single Expat, or a MNC Expat.

But of course there are always exceptions to every generalisation.

I would suggest (certainly those I have met) that expat teachers are generally here because they cant get a job back home or on the run from some sort of truoble and are not to be trusted even by other expats.

And this quote really proves the validity of the topic lol. Some Expats are completely unable to understand or relate to other Expats who choose to live in Thailand. Some Expats, mightn't understand why some Expats Choose to teach, in much the same way, that some Expats might not understand why other Expats don't even bother learning the language/culture etc. Everyone's ambitions/priorities/goals in life are different, as is how we try to achieve them.

[TommoPhysicist]

It was more of a generalisation. e.g. If you live in rural Thailand, you'll predominately eat Thai food, rather than western food. If you live in rural Thailand, you likely speak at least a little bit of Thai (Or soon will). If you live in rural Thailand, you likely have a few Thai friends. If you live in rural Thailand, you likely sometimes attend Thai weddings/funerals/mo lum concerts etc. You also likely understand "Thai style" better than someone who lives in an urban area, because Thais tend to become more westernised the longer they live in a big city.

Yes, I only eat Thai food, I speak Thai a lot (I also read and write Thai), now we get to the contentious part .......... I don't have Thai friends, nor do I believe it possible for me to have Thai friends. Village Thais are the dullest people in the world. They have the lowest educational standards humanly possible and no ambitions, their only interests are eating, sleeping, getting blind drunk, and having sex. How could anyone possibly find friends among such people?

[Pseudolus]

It was more of a generalisation. e.g. If you live in rural Thailand, you'll predominately eat Thai food, rather than western food. If you live in rural Thailand, you likely speak at least a little bit of Thai (Or soon will). If you live in rural Thailand, you likely have a few Thai friends. If you live in rural Thailand, you likely sometimes attend Thai weddings/funerals/mo lum concerts etc. You also likely understand "Thai style" better than someone who lives in an urban area, because Thais tend to become more westernised the longer they live in a big city.

Yes, I only eat Thai food, I speak Thai a lot (I also read and write Thai), now we get to the contentious part .......... I don't have Thai friends, nor do I believe it possible for me to have Thai friends. Village Thais are the dullest people in the world. They have the lowest educational standards humanly possible and no ambitions, their only interests are eating, sleeping, getting blind drunk, and having sex. How could anyone possibly find friends among such people?

Part of the daily life in Pattaya I am lead to believe. Oh, and telling tales of their time in the CIA / SAS / Seals / SIS.... fill in as yo please.

[Naam]

reading Thaivisa expat fairy tales concerning their real or perceived problems might cause sometimes sympathy but more often amusement. and when those who let dogshit influence their lifestyle make derogatory remarks about other expats it causes roaring laughter

[Mosha]

Us country boys have demonstrated GH's point admirably

[hotandhumid]

Yep, I don't follow. Seriously

It's a very clever troll by Guesthouse......he had to create a preamble so that he could get to this line at the end......

The one hope is of course expats who are not actually expats, they seem to understand everything.

I gave him a like for his better than average attempt at trolling

Guesthouse, and everyone else that thinks that it's an achievement being an ex-pat in Thailand........listen to this bit of sage advice from theblether.

There is no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country that is a £500 flight away from the UK, there is no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country that actively works to ensure you know you are a perpetual guest, no achievement to be an ex-pat in a country where the laws were changed to make it even more difficult for good and well intentioned people to create and maintain a family life, no achievement in being an ex-pat in a country where your property rights are abysmal and by dint you cannot truly own your own family home in your own name, no achievement in doing business in a country where you have to adopt a company structure with imposed Thai nominees, no achievement in selecting a country for retirement where you have ensured you pension has been frozen as the local government will not enter into treaty agreements.

Quite frankly a lot of people would look at the terms and conditions of living as a long term ex-pat in Thailand and decide that it's an act of madness to pick that country of all countries for long term ex-pat living and retirement. You would be better off in Malaysia, at least you would have some rights there.

If you want to see the people that have got it right, stand at the airport and watch the guys flying in from the oil rigs, watch the guys that fly in for long term winter holidays and more, watch the guys that are still making a fortune in the UK and US that can afford to drop £20 grand a year on vacations and not blink, watch the multiple thousands of people that regard Thailand as a good Asia base and nothing more.

In short, watch the guys that have not allowed themselves to become entrapped in a moveable web.

Take Thailand on your terms.....as soon as you start bending to accommodate the Byzantine local conditions you may as well stay bent over as at some point just about every ex-pat gets shafted to some degree. I know of several people who are looking for the exit doors due to all of the above so don't be having a go at the people that knew it already Guesthouse......there's a good boy.

..................A highly rated and successful businessman in Thailand recently said to me, and he was right, that people are jealous of guys that can fly in and out of the country at a whim, guys like Ianforbes had it right, snow-birding into Thailand when Thailand was at it's best, and returning to their home countries or elsewhere when the weather turned for the worse. People are jealous as they couldn't even remotely afford the air fare to visit home, never mind vacation back home. This gentleman mentioned that if had his time again that's the life pattern he would go for. If any of you guys are feeling trapped in Thailand,......it's of your own doing, you'll never see theblether fall in that trap......maybe that's because I was living in an ex-pat community when I was just out of nappies??? I've seen it all before.

There's a point to that.........many of the people who make a genuine success of ex-pat life came to it young, as teenagers and their twenties. Some people have lived all of their lives as ex-pats and made successful and delightful lives for themselves. Those young people backpacking around the place are putting down good foundations for the future.....and yet in many cases they are reviled by the old codgers that didn't have the bottle to have a go at the same age. Oh well, there's nowt queerer than folk.

.

the blether - To be honest I have never really enjoyed or liked much of your work on here but your work here is absolutely spot on. A great post and I found myself nodding in agreement at every sentence. There were also a couple of guys I had in mind who fit in exactly with your scenario. I know of one particular 'expat' I prefer to call them drifters myself, who is already on record as saying he won't be going home for his parents funeral when they die. Shocking really.

[MAJIC]

"So I'm left wondering, what chance of ever understanding Thais."

The different Cultures are very far apart,and the thinking is equally far apart,

So IMO there is very little chance of a genuine common meeting ground.

e.g only today,we have 2 guests arriving,and 30 minutes later,my wife informs me without discussion there are 3 other guests added to the list, so much for understanding.

And by the way: I don't believe GH is Trolling,he doesn't need to resort to that.

Edited August 28, 2012 by MAJIC

[Pseudolus]

reading Thaivisa expat fairy tales concerning their real or perceived problems might cause sometimes sympathy but more often amusement. and when those who let dogshit influence their lifestyle make derogatory remarks about other expats it causes roaring laughter

Why do you have to be so obtuse? The thread you refer to was not about dog turds, it was about the blame the farang culture here. A voice of dissension from anyone who disagrees with something you believe is a fact, and out come the snide remarks, and the hounding of someone. Might work in the classroom chappy, but frankly it is just childish. Maybe you should jump over to the superstitions thread as a voice of authority there; you obviously believe you are god just because you know your way around a socket set.

[brit1984]

Humans are complicated and understanding others can be very difficult.

I don't think this issue is specific to people who reside in (or visit) Thailand.

[fletchsmile]

GH,

I think it's more the circles you mix in and the way you choose to live your life. I've friends from all walks of life, in the low tens of thousand baht per month local terms, to those in large MNC earning THB 1mio up on expat packages, as well as retirees, both in cities as well as upcountry. Job and package isn't really the deciding factor in understanding each other.

Perhaps it's difficult for what you describe as a privately funded expat to understand exactly the life, perks and benefits of someone in an MNC with all the benefits. On the other hand most expats from MNCs will more easily appreciate those without all the perks and benefits as that's the life they lived back home. At the end of the day though, that's not really what the essence of life is about, so for the people I know they get to know and understand each other pretty well regardless of job. Just as you would back home.

Sociability and sense of adventure are much more the factors...

[tmd5855]

/agree with the OP

But that's because people essentially live in different worlds here. To give a brief description of each I'd say:

Multi National Corporation (MNC) Expats - Western lifestyle, but in Thailand. Working for a Western company

Retired - Not working, but still have money.

Urban Expats - Western lifestyle, but in Thailand.

Rural Expats - Thai lifestyle

Teacher Expats - Thai lifestyle. Working for a Thai company/school.

With most Retired Expats living in an urban area, they often have something in common with the MNC Expats, even though one works and the other doesn't. Likewise, the Retired Expats who live in rural areas would have more in common with the Teacher Expats, as they would have many of the same problems etc associated with integrating into a Thai lifestyle.

As I think that the level of integration into Thai society and acceptance of "Thai style" is the main difference in understanding between expats. As if you have money, you're less likely to integrate into Thai society, as it's easy to stick with what you know. Likewise if you live in a rural area, you're more likely to integrate into Thai society, because there simply aren't as many choices.

Edit: Oh and although working could be seen as common ground for MNC Expats and Teachers, it's not really. Because MNC Expats often earn more than 10x what a teacher does, and are also in a completely different profession.

Edit2: Also the OP said "What chance is there of ever understanding Thais?". As an Urban, MNC Expat, you'll probably find it very difficult to understand your average Thai person. Although you'll probably meet a lot of westernised Thai people through work, who are effectively westerners. For someone living rural, especially teachers, they'll learn to understand "Thai style" to some degree at least.

I beg to differ as far as rural expats having something in common with expat teachers! I would suggest (certainly those I have met) that expat teachers are generally here because they cant get a job back home or on the run from some sort of truoble and are not to be trusted even by other expats. I stopped socialising with the local farang community because they all seem to be a bunch of <deleted>...... Ups, sorry that is the only way to explain them.

As for intergrating into a thai lifestyle, surely that can be done even in the cities, it is after all up to the individual as to how much they immerse themselves in the culture!

Sent from my GT-P6200 using Thaivisa Connect App

Strange one??

Putting groups of people in pigeon holes never seem to work owing to differing personalities amongst the group.

Work for a European company and have the ex-pats package,(pension, Health cover etc). What group am I

But I like going a little bit wild (GoGo bars/Drink) in Pattaya where I have a home for the past 8 years. What group then am I.

Have already built my retirement home, all landscaped, fishponds etc, way out in the country. But not retiring for a few years? Where you put me.

Being single have lived in TGF's parents farm, sleep on the floor, no A/C and a bowl to wash. Where you put me.

Some guys can wear different hat's, I am a totally different character at work to how I play.

Wear a collar and tie, then its flip flop working on farm machinery.

I despair at times with some elitism shown by some members on this forum and the terms/description of same.

Some people who live and work, live and work outside Thailand, live here because they are retired here.

If they are happy, content and at peace with themselves, then they are all the same regardless of employment status, money or whatever.

My innane ramblings need to stop.

[DP25]

The 1% and everyone else can't relate to each other at home, I don't see why you'd expect them to do so here just because they have the same skin color. I can relate more to a middle class Thai than some of the farang here.

[GuestHouse]

GH,

I think it's more the circles you mix in and the way you choose to live your life.

Fletch, I think the responses in this thread demonstrate very well that the truth of the observation has nothing to do with my own personal choices in the way I live my life.

I have asked if we actually understand each other and have given the examples of different ways of life here in Thailand as example - The responses indicate the underlying truth in my observation - It is clear that many really do not have a clue about the lives of their fellow expats.

The issue is as much about City Dwelling Expats not understanding Country Living Expats as it is about employed/retired/self funded expats.

[fletchsmile]

Strange one??

Putting groups of people in pigeon holes never seem to work owing to differing personalities amongst the group.

Work for a European company and have the ex-pats package,(pension, Health cover etc). What group am I

But I like going a little bit wild (GoGo bars/Drink) in Pattaya where I have a home for the past 8 years. What group then am I.

Have already built my retirement home, all landscaped, fishponds etc, way out in the country. But not retiring for a few years? Where you put me.

Being single have lived in TGF's parents farm, sleep on the floor, no A/C and a bowl to wash. Where you put me.

Some guys can wear different hat's, I am a totally different character at work to how I play.

Wear a collar and tie, then its flip flop working on farm machinery.

....

Yes and you're definitely not alone in the varied life experiences, and there's plenty of us who can and have worn different hats according to the circumstances.

For me that is one of the great things about Thailand. There are such contrasts here, and a great opportunity to experiment and experience different lifestyles.