Do We Even Understand Each Other?

[fletchsmile]

I like Guesthouse but he often seems to bring up social class in a discussion. Seems to be an English thing. Like many Thais, he seems like a nice well meaning person, but has to continually remind you and himself of his special upbringing and good breeding.

We all like ro be liked and I thank you for that, but 'special upbringing and good breeding' - I have to chuckle at that.

That asside, the observation I have made has no relationship at all to social class - I've gone as far as to explain a discussion on social class would be a different thread which I have no desire to start as there are so many Brits around (noting their sensitivity to the socisl class thing).

There are many different types of Brits, for whom social class is somewhat irrelevant

[fletchsmile]

Spending a few months reading on ThaiVisa has made me question the need for a permanent move to Thailand and I've started to consider the idea of just visiting and continuing to earn money in my home country.

I might be able to take advantage of the best of both worlds and stay up a bit higher on the economic scale than if I just moved to TL full-time. I definitely admire the guys who have made a home in the LOS but I also notice the posts written by those who are desperate to leave. At my age (52) I suppose I've still got a few good working years left in me and am starting to think I should just earn as much money as I can in North America. If I can find a MNC gig in Thailand I would probably give that a try but living on my modest pension alone is sounding less and less viable the more I read about hospital bills and other unforeseen expenses one can incur in Thailand. For now I'm planning on just taking extended vacations of perhaps 2-3 months at a time and developing some experience with the place.

If I was to meet the right lass my outlook could change but my philosophy lately is that a man's freedom is proportional to his mobility and that real mobility requires a significant income.

Sounds a wise move

[oldsailor35]

Yep, I don't follow. Seriously

Right, what the hell is he talking about ?

But you have to admit he made his point, we definitively don't understand each other.

But do we really need to ?

[GuestHouse]

I know from your background, you've a decent job, and move from time to time on good packages. The key driver for you is your job, and you make a good lifestyle out of it. While your job is your focus, it sort of gets in the way of experiencing other ways of life. For others, though they have a different focus, and the job is not the key. Once you get more flexible and change your focus, then you get flexible with your lifestyle and with that the understandings of different people you meet. That's a key point. You could choose to try and understand. Your priorities are just different and you choose not to.

Thank you for your contribution.

You've given the exact pre-loaded assumptions, off the shelf view that demonstrates the point I'm making. - I could not have hoped for a better example of an expat not understanding another expat.

Again thank you.

Haha.. easy young man. I was just trying to suggest a few reasons for why YOU don't understand your fellow expats. Many of us do...

You made the quote:

But it goes both ways, while my very best friend here in Thailand is what I shall refer to as a privately funded expat, not yet retired but not working, I actually don't really know another folk like him (beyond superficial acquaintance).

So aside from one friend who is unlike you, you don't know any other privately funded expats as friends.

So what's the reason then for you not having other friends in such varied lifestyles? Why is it you don't understand, when many of us do? Isn't that the question?

Well I believe I'm honest in my statement that I don't many privately funded expats "beyond a superficial aquaintance". But then I'm aware that superficial aquantance might for others constitute friendship.

I take the view I can count my friends on the fingers if one hand and don't regard that as being unusual.

But here's a thing, I made an observation about expats not really understanding each other across a line defined by employment and or geographicsl location - I never gave examples myself but left it for other members to do so - they, and you have responded with exactly the misconceptions to which I was referring. One of your own missives being sn slmost perfect example.

I did not say 'all expats including myself' indeed I confessed right up front to the limitations of my own experience.

I don't claim therefore to understand any mote or any less than others.

On the basis of your own responses I see you don't understand other expats either - don't feel agrieved at this, you (and others) have simply confirmed my observation.

[maxme]

I think this might be related to our upbringing and the cultures of each perspective country. Luckily enough I don't follow that... as soon I got 15 I went out on adventures, discovering the world on my own and not viewing it from my countrymen's perspective and what I found was a that it wasn't like they said or any other said for that matter. Most important thing of perspectives is your own, not based on others but by your own experience.

I think comparing social classes are meaningless as it will only leads to a debate which one is better. It's better to focus on the individual itself and not the aspects surrounding him/her.

Edited August 29, 2012 by maxme

[GuestHouse]

^ Once again, this has absolutely nothing to do with social class.

[GuestHouse]

I like Guesthouse but he often seems to bring up social class in a discussion. Seems to be an English thing. Like many Thais, he seems like a nice well meaning person, but has to continually remind you and himself of his special upbringing and good breeding.

We all like ro be liked and I thank you for that, but 'special upbringing and good breeding' - I have to chuckle at that.

That asside, the observation I have made has no relationship at all to social class - I've gone as far as to explain a discussion on social class would be a different thread which I have no desire to start as there are so many Brits around (noting their sensitivity to the socisl class thing).

There are many different types of Brits, for whom social class is somewhat irrelevant

Perhaps, perhaps not but then Social Class is irrelevant to this thread.

[maxme]

^ Once again, this has absolutely nothing to do with social class.

You may not mean for that but that's what it is turning into GH.

"The problem with the global village is all the global village idiots."

- Paul Ginsparg

I understand what you are getting at but if you want people to understand you better dumb down your post.

[chrisinth]

^ Once again, this has absolutely nothing to do with social class.

You may not mean for that but that's what it is turning into GH.

"The problem with the global village is all the global village idiots."

- Paul Ginsparg

I understand what you are getting at but if you want people to understand you better dumb down your post.

The dumber the better for me I think.............

[MrsMills]

If my life revolved about trying to understand people I dont know, it would be a sad life.

[maxme]

If my life revolved about trying to understand people I dont know, it would be a sad life.

Part of our evolving. Either you are with it or not but that's the choice we have. We can't get into to every debacle but should try at least with those surrounding us and by that I don't mean the immediate family. Isn't that one of the reasons for the mess in Thailand?

[lovelomsak]

I have found absolutely no one understands me. Be it back in Canada or Thailand. I find that I talk to someone more than once and they think they know more about me than I do. When I attempt to give them insight to who I am they simply donot believe what I tell them for it doesnot coincide with their prejudgements, so they reject it.. I am a product of "A lie travels half way around the world before the truth gets its pants on". in way to many instances.

[lovelomsak]

^ Once again, this has absolutely nothing to do with social class.

I havenot read the whole thread but just want to add perhaps in Thailand social class isnot the issue as much as economic class. There are many kinds of expats on different economic levels which is probably the biggest divisional issue when posting anonymously on a forum.

[croweater]

Yep, I don't follow. Seriously

Right, what the hell is he talking about ?

But you have to admit he made his point, we definitively don't understand each other.

what you mean by that?

[theblether]

You know though......there is one thing that unites everyone who has chosen to live an ex-pat life, on a company package or otherwise.......each and every one of you has had the bottle to have a go.

As Norman Tebbit said, you " got on your bike ", and you got on your bike to make a better life for yourself or family. The motivation could have been travel, employment, retirement whatever, the bottom line is that you stepped out of the norm and tried.

Far too many people go through lives in the starting gate, you can't say that about ex-pats. Many ex-pats shot out of their starting gate as soon as they could, ( villagefarang is a prime example, finished Uni then took off to Thailand where he has now lived for 35 memorable years ), many may have lived conventional lives in their own countries for a substantial period before moving, however every single ex-pat has one thing in common......eventually they went through the departure gate.

So that unites all of you, you have all had the bottle to go through that departure gate and try..............and that's a far better way to live your life than entrapping yourself within small horizons.

I'll be quiet now.

I have to say Blether your quote from Norman Tebbit was pretty rich,and taking the P*** considering he never "had to get on his bike" in his life,and probably never had to stoop so low,even as an analogy either!

I'll just let that comment pass MAJIC

Sorry buddy! but circa 45 year olds? often mistakenly think Tebbit and Maggie was the greatest since sliced bread. Sorry about the slight deviation off topic.

Oh well you've started it now MAJIC so I may as well rise to the bait........so my family were employed in the steel industry in Motherwell, I was an apprentice engineer at Ravenscraig steel works, my father was the local chair of ASTMS. So we were both union card holders. Other members of my family were employed in texstyle's and mining.

So there you go, card carrying union men, all of us......what's your point? I suggest you be very careful making it as you may find yourself in a battle that will embarrass you.......go ahead.

As you know Blether we are going to go off Topic big time on this one,so I will be happy to engage this subject at,another time. As long as the Topic is within TV rules,embarrass me,by all means, if that is your intention,but of course the members will always decide.

And by the way there was no bait for you to rise to,merely my comments! on a particular obnoxious MP,of that particular era, of which you seem a bit tetchy about.

I'm tetchy about people making stupid assumptions

[fletchsmile]

Well I believe I'm honest in my statement that I don't many privately funded expats "beyond a superficial aquaintance". But then I'm aware that superficial aquantance might for others constitute friendship.

I take the view I can count my friends on the fingers if one hand and don't regard that as being unusual.

But here's a thing, I made an observation about expats not really understanding each other across a line defined by employment and or geographicsl location - I never gave examples myself but left it for other members to do so - they, and you have responded with exactly the misconceptions to which I was referring. One of your own missives being sn slmost perfect example.

I did not say 'all expats including myself' indeed I confessed right up front to the limitations of my own experience.

I don't claim therefore to understand any mote or any less than others.

On the basis of your own responses I see you don't understand other expats either - don't feel agrieved at this, you (and others) have simply confirmed my observation.

If you read thru my responses the only thing that I don't understand is why you claim not to understand other expats, and yet you don't seem to accept it's down to the choices you make in life to try and understand others or not.

Now when you claim that I don't understand you, let's bear in mind I like some of your posts, but given you are someone I've never met and don't know, and just read on the internet from time to time, that's no real surprise. It could be that I do and it could be that I don't. For all I know you could be a young hot female cross dressing as Humphry Boggart. For you to extrapolate not understanding some person I've never met on an internet, to saying that proves your points and that I don't understand expats is rather a stretch of the imagination.

If you look only thru your own eyes, indeed you will confirm your own observations.

If however, you try and understand others and try and see from their perspective you'll see there are plenty of people who have friends with expats from all across the spectrum, and as a result do understand other expats

I guess if we sum up. You claim you don't understand your fellow expats. I'll take your word for it, and that's your call. For myself I claim as others do, I lead a varied lifestyle and do understand a wide range of friends that I have from different backgrounds. The reason being is I'm not easily pigeon holed, and one of my focuses in life is understanding people as well as friendships, and trying as many of the opportunities Thailand throws up as possible. Whether I work for an MNC or live up country doesn't define me, the choices I make do though.

Cheers

Fletch

[GuestHouse]

Fletch, I've already noted (at ⋕79) your response which perfectly demonstrates my point and your own predilection to pigeonhole someone you don't know with off the shelf blind assumptions you chose to post

As a point of note, I have not claimed not to understand other expats, I have made the observation that 'we expats' don't seem to understand each other - A point you eloquently confirmed (see ⋕79 again) and a point that numerous others have confirmed with their responses here, and elsewhere on TV.

As a second point of note my observation does not pigeonhole you or anyone else for that matter - it does recognise misunderstanding between groups of people, but it does not say who is in what group, or indeed who is not in what group. Once again you and others have confirmed by the content of the response to this thread that those misunderstandings are real.

Your sensitivity and that of others to matters of being pigeonholed (when nobody has been pigeonholed) or social class, when there is no reference to social class in my observation, is of interest and perhaps will someday become the subject of another thread, but not today.

What this sensitivity does reveal is you, and others, responding to what they think has been said and setting off in a tangent along a reaction to their own assumptions, rather than reading what HAS been said and addressing the point that HAS actually been made.

Again - misunderstanding rears its dumb face.

[Naam]

GuestHouse, Fletch;

ah don't unnerstand wimin folks. waitin for yous exburt input

[canuckamuck]

Fletch and Guesthouse are arguing different points but only Guesthouse has noticed

[GuestHouse]

GuestHouse, Fletch;

ah don't unnerstand wimin folks. waitin for yous exburt input

And there was me thinking that was a frontal lobotomy scar across your forehead, if it is not you might give it a try - I'm not sure it will produce understanding of wimin folk, but it might give a good excuse for not being able to do so.

[fletchsmile]

Fletch and Guesthouse are arguing different points but only Guesthouse has noticed

Haha.

GH had already decided the outcome when he wrote the thread, as is his wont. The difficulty when you've already decided what you'll find you is you usually do find it, but miss other things along the way)

For me it's simple. GH says "we" as expats don't understand other expats so how can we be expected to understand Thais. He believes it's due to differences such as job MNC vs private and city vs rural

My view is simpler, and summed up: "Speak for yourself". Myself and a great deal of my friends don't fit that "we". I'm quite happy understanding other expats I'm friends with, as I live a varied life and have friends from all works of life. This is how I choose to live, and so yes you'd have difficulty describing me in the same way as tmd8553 put it. One of the great things in Thailand is you can often choose to be who you want when you want given the freedoms. People who miss that in my view miss one of the great things about living here

BTW Yes I noticed there's a cheeky irony in posting something where you always have the answer no you don't get my point therefore you prove my point

There's a difference between real life and Thai Visa though - For some at least

Edited August 29, 2012 by fletchsmile

[fletchsmile]

GuestHouse, Fletch;

ah don't unnerstand wimin folks. waitin for yous exburt input

To paraphrase Herr Nicholson speaking to Melvin who batted for the other side:

"Think of a man and take away reason and accountability".

That'll get you started, Dr.Naam.

[maxme]

GuestHouse, Fletch;

ah don't unnerstand wimin folks. waitin for yous exburt input

To paraphrase Herr Nicholson speaking to Melvin who batted for the other side:

"Think of a man and take away reason and accountability".

That'll get you started, Dr.Naam.

Now, now... That's not fair dragging in 70% of the TV members into this debacle.

Edited August 29, 2012 by maxme

[DaamNaam]

Understanding each other not that important. Accepting each other for what we are is.

Understand?

[overherebc]

"I really didn't understand you as person, but now I do", seems to convey the idea that , now you have managed to come around to my superior way of thinking I can see you as the intelligent person I've managed to train you to be.

In light of above, I really don't care if anyone understands me or not and I don't spend any time trying to understand other people, if I like them I will continue to converse withem , if I don't I will stop, and I'm quite sure the same goes for them.

Lots more important things in life for me to think about.

You're a long time dead, it's not a rehearsal

[tmd5855]

You are saying that as a poor American, people from rich American families are even bigger snobs and wouldn't even talk to you.

There are plenty bad apples (like those on Wall Street) but plenty too whom have dedicated themselves to charity like Gates and Buffet and numerous others.

But you miss the point. Class is celebrated in Thailand throughout all classes. It is not in the USA. There are plenty of snobs sure but we aren't very impressed by them. Remember, we were a bunch of rednecks who threw the King and his well dressed tea sipping "soldiers" out of the country and have not looked back.

No "Tea sipping soldiers" you colonials threw your own tea into Boston harbour during a 'party', saying "No taxation without representation" (Might be wrong since I was not around when it happened)

The rednecks, "ye bud, we know"

[MrsMills]

If I could understand GuestHouse maybe I could misunderstand him, but I can never understand him.

[Scully]

Nobody can truthfully say they understand someone else, there are too many external factors. We all have lives that revolve around ourselves.

Someone can have a fortune and be deeply unhappy or a person can live hand to mouth and be blissfully happy. It's okay to try and analyse it but we will never understand it.

[brit1984]

Even understanding one's self can be difficult.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[GuestHouse]

GH had already decided the outcome when he wrote the thread, as is his wont. The difficulty when you've already decided what you'll find you is you usually do find it, but miss other things along the way)

For me it's simple. GH says "we" as expats don't understand other expats so how can we be expected to understand Thais. He believes it's due to differences such as job MNC vs private and city vs rural

Its so simple for you that you entirely missed the point that I do not believe it is due to differences such as job MNC vs private and city vs rural I simply observe that the misunderstandings exist across these distinctions - as you yourself repeatedly demonstrate.

As you very rightly point out, when you've already decided what you'll find you is you usually do find it, but miss other things along the way.

What is sure is, I did not write the thread, I asked a question, the thread is a compilation of my question and the ensuing discussion between board members, you and I included.

There is ample evidence of the misunderstanding between expats between the distinctions I mentioned, perhaps the best example of all from yourself. I did not decide the outcome of the thread, I certainly did not in anyway force you personally to give us the extremely good example of misunderstanding that you yourself, thought up, typed up and posted.

Again thank you for your contribution to the thread (it was all your own).