Canadian Sisters Died In Thailand From Drinking Cocktail That Contained Insect Repellent

[sunshine51]

I've seen people do some pretty strange things to get high, but drinking DEET was not one of them. That crap in banned in the US because it is so toxic. The girls probably never knew what they were drinking. So sad.

We have some pretty chronic petrol sniffers in Australia., that's toxic as well. Then there's paint thinner, glue, aerosols etc, not to mention all the amphetamine coctail pills. There's a 100 ways to kill yourself trying to get high.

Too true matey...I saw a feller drink paint remover once trying to get high.

He thought it was paint thinner...nevertheless....he still died.

[khaowong1]

I've seen people do some pretty strange things to get high, but drinking DEET was not one of them. That crap in banned in the US because it is so toxic. The girls probably never knew what they were drinking. So sad.

Actually, you can still buy it in Army/Navy stores.. plastic bottles of insect repellant...I happen to have a bottle of it. Sure not planning on drinking it, but it works to keep away the skeeters.

[Thai at Heart]

The pyrethrins are a pair of natural organic compunds normally derived from Chrysanthemum cinerariaefolium that have potent insecticidal activity. Pyrethrins are neurotoxins.

So pyrethrins is deet? ground mozzie coils are DEET?

And Chooka before you bang your drum and the I Told You So Chorus joins in with what those misguided youth wont do, how do you know that they asked for anything more than a good cocktail.?

Right you don't

PS for those of us who avoid speculation of Leo dwellers, we never saw that post - about mozzie coils, nor saw the attacks on it. Get that chip off your shoulder

It was a special cocktail. not to be confused with a happy pizza in cambodia.

I may be wrong, but as far as I know DEET is not pyrethrin.

Pyrethrin or Pyrethrum repels and kills insects. DEET is purely a repellant.

[Monkeyrobot]

They also do this sh**t in Bali and Loas as well , adding whatever to drinks. Travel agents and web based ticket companies should make young people aware of this.

[mrtoad]

who the hell is writing these reports,police hunt for 2 portuguese who where drinking with the sisters,now they say it was 2 brazilians.

As long as it's not Thai's at fault

And it will eventually be a Burmese that gets done for it.

[jshorts]

Thanks for adding my video Webfact

DEET (N,N-Diethyl-meta-toluamide). Chemical Technical Summary for Public Health and Public Safety Professionals. Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry

http://www.atsdr.cdc...th-effects.html

Also i can understand the Thai media / Gov have tired to cover this up also Thai hotels have a habbit of spraying all rooms with this stuff and can make problems with breathing ..

People drink insect repellent and munched up mozzie coils?

By God, what a sheltered existence I've been living. I suppose the question then is did these ladies know what they were drinking?

Yes, they did.

Are you saying that you know for certain that these women knew what they were drinking?

Proof please!

Please see my second reply.

[sunkist]

I've seen people do some pretty strange things to get high, but drinking DEET was not one of them. That crap in banned in the US because it is so toxic. The girls probably never knew what they were drinking. So sad.

Deet is not banned in the US

[cekipa]

so I guess the tales that some posted on the other page about mozzie repellents being put into drinks weren't to far off then. The worldly and wise branded them as loonies running around in tin foil hats with conspiricy theories. I guess there is something to be learnt here, next time before some attack others with insults, stop for a moment and consider the possibility they may actually be more intelligent than yourselves and not escapees from the loony farm. I am refering to minority, those that think they have thier doctorates in everything known to mankind.

OK, but how much have they had to ingest for it to be lethal and the article talks about an overdose of DEET ?...surely that would be a very large amount

I wouldn't be too much concerned about how much quantity makes it an overdose. Same as heroin, cocaine, meths., and so on, you just don't have to take it.

[msg362]

Thanks for adding my video Webfact

DEET (N,N-Diethyl-meta-toluamide). Chemical Technical Summary for Public Health and Public Safety Professionals. Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry

http://www.atsdr.cdc...th-effects.html

Also i can understand the Thai media / Gov have tired to cover this up also Thai hotels have a habbit of spraying all rooms with this stuff and can make problems with breathing ..

I've taken the bit about ingestion here, helps get some idea of how much has to be ingested

Ingestion of DEET

Rarely, people have ingested DEET intentionally to commit suicide, or because of psychological problems (Tenenbein 1987; Fraser et al. 1995). The effects resulting from intentional ingestion are variable, due to the different scenarios in which they occurred. Of the six reported cases of deliberate DEET ingestion, three led to death. In these cases, the amount ingested was 15-50 mL of 47.5% to 95% DEET in bottles. In two cases, bottles of DEET were drunk along with unspecified amounts of alcohol. Health effects included coma, unresponsiveness to pain and other stimuli, and death (Tenenbein 1987). In another case, a woman with a history of unipolar-depressive illness ingested a number of pills along with 50 mL of 95% DEET. She arrived at the hospital comatose and pulseless. She had a generalized seizure and died from a generalized bowel infarction (Tenenbein 1987). In another case, a woman with a history of psychological disorders ingested 15-25 mL of 95% DEET. She had a right and left atrial enlargement and diffuse ST-T abnormalities, but returned to normal within 24 hours with no further cardiac abnormalities (Fraser et al. 1995).

Hope that's OK

Edited September 1, 2012 by Rimmer
Small print

[LomSak27]

may be wrong, but as far as I know DEET is not pyrethrin.

Pyrethrin or Pyrethrum repels and kills insects. DEET is purely a repellant.

so now we have Mozzie coil drinks

and drinks with DEET

Two different ones, Guess we will wait for the Canadian Toxicology report.

Back to prepairing the house for flashfloods

• 
  
  • 
    Thanks Thai at Heart, I thought that too, but when you have a banged up TV mob jabbering, getting a fact is pretty hard
    

[cowslip]

so I guess the tales that some posted on the other page about mozzie repellents being put into drinks weren't to far off then. The worldly and wise branded them as loonies running around in tin foil hats with conspiricy theories. I guess there is something to be learnt here, next time before some attack others with insults, stop for a moment and consider the possibility they may actually be more intelligent than yourselves and not escapees from the loony farm. I am refering to minority, those that think they have thier doctorates in everything known to mankind.

OK, but how much have they had to ingest for it to be lethal and the article talks about an overdose of DEET ?...surely that would be a very large amount

I wouldn't be too much concerned about how much quantity makes it an overdose. Same as heroin, cocaine, meths., and so on, you just don't have to take it.

...and alcohol

[BuffaloRescue]

dont them mean DDT? Not DEET?

Deet is the stuff they put in insect repellants very strong smell youd definately know if you were drinking that. DDT is a pesticide, poisonous - effects the central nervous system. Nicotine is also a pesticide, also a stimulant. Maybe the mean that. Just speculating here no idea. Just seems unlikely anyone in their right mind would drink DEET without knowing it.

Edited September 1, 2012 by BuffaloRescue

[Thai at Heart]

dont them mean DDT? Not DEET?

Deet is the stuff they put in insect repellants very strong smell youd definately know if you were drinking that. DDT is a pesticide, very poisonous - effects the central nervous system. Nicotine is also a pesticide, also a stimulant. Maybe the mean that. Just speculating here no idea. Just seems unlikely anyone in their right mind would drink DEET without knowing it.

Being as DDT is banned, and that would be a little hard to come by. Unless there were residues in the soil or food and they ate tons of soil or unwashed vegetables.

[Faranguy]

Sounds more like scopolamine (Devils Breath from Columbia) than deet.

http://www.vice.com/vice-news/colombian-devil-s-breath-1-of-2

This drug is used to get sex, money and drugs from people, unfortunately a small overdose is fatal in a most unpleasant manner. This would also possibly explain the deaths of several other individuals who died in the area in a similar manner. The similarity in skin reactions among victims is an interesting clue and it is not one of the reactions commonly associated with Deet.

I used Deet a lot when I was younger. It was invented in Atlantic Canada and we used to use the 100% pure variety that worked much better than the diluted version that comes in "Off". We would smother ourselves in it every morning to keep the hordes of mosquitoes and northern black flies away and 40 years later I am still OK. I never heard of anyone having any problems with it in the short term. Have any of you had a similar experience with Deet that you can relay?

YES I AM SPECULATING! but to use a placebo as a method to shut the reast of us up is sadly a Thai thing - "happy lies are OK". This makes it extremely difficult to believe people in this country.

My deepest sympathy to the families but the deet hypothesis sounds like stab in the dark. If not, where's the data? Surely we can at least get a documented ppm from the researcher who came up with this.

If any of you have some reliable scientific information on the autopsy I would like to see it.

[pacovl46]

OMG. I gladly stick with Oishi!

[chantsurfer]

Unless you know the volume by weight of DEET, I am not sure how you can say it is a lot. A pound of lead is going to be significantly less in size than a pound aluminum.

Then you have to take into effect the other drugs and alcohol in their systems too.

http://www.inchem.or...emical/deet.htm

Main risks are: CNS depression, generalized seizures,hypertonia with opisthotonic spells and hypotension. Symptomsare more severe if ingestion is associated with alcohol orsedative drugs.

If the median lethal dose in rats (2 g/kg) is applicable to humans, 50 ml of 100% DEET may is potentially lethal for an 8-year-old child.

DEET-induced CNSdepression may be potentiated by ethyl alcohol or psychotropicdrugs

You correct in some respects, but the point is, it appears you would need quite large quantites of DEET for it to become fatal, now if one assumes the source of the deet is ground up mosquito coils as has been suggested, how many coils would you have to grind up to get a lethal dose of deet, considering the fact the average mosquito coil is not even close to 100% deet content...

Even the quantity of 50ml of 100% deet to kill an 8 year old is still a significant quantity to put in a drink...

You say a drink, when you go out to party do you have a drink or many drinks. 1 beer is not going to do much to you, want about 10?

[chooka]

The pyrethrins are a pair of natural organic compunds normally derived from Chrysanthemum cinerariaefolium that have potent insecticidal activity. Pyrethrins are neurotoxins.

So pyrethrins is deet? ground mozzie coils are DEET?

And Chooka before you bang your drum and the I Told You So Chorus joins in with what those misguided youth wont do, how do you know that they asked for anything more than a good cocktail.?

Right you don't

PS for those of us who avoid speculation of Leo dwellers, we never saw that post - about mozzie coils, nor saw the attacks on it. Get that chip off your shoulder

My deepest appologies, I never intended to offend you or even direct my coment to you or any person in particular. All I was saying was that some became insulting and suggested that those that mentioned that thier drinks may have been spiked in another thread were labled nutters with conspiricy theories by those that were more educated and informed. I never infered in anyway that they asked for anything nor did I point any blame towards any person/s.

Again my deepest appologies and if a moderator is available I would request that they remove my post at #3 as it appears offensive to some. To all that found it offensive my deepest and sincire appologies.

Edited September 1, 2012 by chooka

[Soutpeel]

Unless you know the volume by weight of DEET, I am not sure how you can say it is a lot. A pound of lead is going to be significantly less in size than a pound aluminum.

Then you have to take into effect the other drugs and alcohol in their systems too.

http://www.inchem.or...emical/deet.htm

Main risks are: CNS depression, generalized seizures,hypertonia with opisthotonic spells and hypotension. Symptomsare more severe if ingestion is associated with alcohol orsedative drugs.

If the median lethal dose in rats (2 g/kg) is applicable to humans, 50 ml of 100% DEET may is potentially lethal for an 8-year-old child.

DEET-induced CNSdepression may be potentiated by ethyl alcohol or psychotropicdrugs

You correct in some respects, but the point is, it appears you would need quite large quantites of DEET for it to become fatal, now if one assumes the source of the deet is ground up mosquito coils as has been suggested, how many coils would you have to grind up to get a lethal dose of deet, considering the fact the average mosquito coil is not even close to 100% deet content...

Even the quantity of 50ml of 100% deet to kill an 8 year old is still a significant quantity to put in a drink...

You say a drink, when you go out to party do you have a drink or many drinks. 1 beer is not going to do much to you, want about 10?

Your right, but some people may have 1 drink some may have 10 at a party, no everyone that goes to a party is a raging alcoholic

nobody knows how many drinks they had, but if the DEET theroy is correct the minium they could have had is 1

[delh]

Yes, they did.

AND

No, they did not.

Are you messing around on a thread about 2 Canadian sisters dying from DEET poisoning for any particular reason?

You still drunk from last night?

Grow up or get sober mate.

Just speculating. As the other members here, just having a bit of fun.

Try going out more.

[Johnice]

who the hell is writing these reports,police hunt for 2 portuguese who where drinking with the sisters,now they say it was 2 brazilians.

The original article said that their partners were speaking portuguese, which is the official language of Brazil.

[yougivemebaby]

More tragic news to this story... I hope from all of this we can teach our kids about the dangers of going to party's and not knowing for sure what they are ingesting. I try to teach all the possible things I can and hope to God this never happens to anyone i know or their children.

RIP

[Thai at Heart]

I think those wipes in the blue and white packs available in 7-11 and chemists contain deet. No idea of concentration.

However, 50ml in a big cocktail isn't actually that much, but it would be almost un drink able, but possible.

[Nisa]

Unless you know the volume by weight of DEET, I am not sure how you can say it is a lot. A pound of lead is going to be significantly less in size than a pound aluminum.

Then you have to take into effect the other drugs and alcohol in their systems too.

http://www.inchem.or...emical/deet.htm

Main risks are: CNS depression, generalized seizures,hypertonia with opisthotonic spells and hypotension. Symptomsare more severe if ingestion is associated with alcohol orsedative drugs.

If the median lethal dose in rats (2 g/kg) is applicable to humans, 50 ml of 100% DEET may is potentially lethal for an 8-year-old child.

DEET-induced CNSdepression may be potentiated by ethyl alcohol or psychotropicdrugs

You correct in some respects, but the point is, it appears you would need quite large quantites of DEET for it to become fatal, now if one assumes the source of the deet is ground up mosquito coils as has been suggested, how many coils would you have to grind up to get a lethal dose of deet, considering the fact the average mosquito coil is not even close to 100% deet content...

Even the quantity of 50ml of 100% deet to kill an 8 year old is still a significant quantity to put in a drink...

You say a drink, when you go out to party do you have a drink or many drinks. 1 beer is not going to do much to you, want about 10?

Your right, but some people may have 1 drink some may have 10 at a party, no everyone that goes to a party is a raging alcoholic

nobody knows how many drinks they had, but if the DEET theroy is correct the minium they could have had is 1

One point to remember is that the effects are going to be increased by alcohol consumption.

[croweater]

so I guess the tales that some posted on the other page about mozzie repellents being put into drinks weren't to far off then. The worldly and wise branded them as loonies running around in tin foil hats with conspiricy theories. I guess there is something to be learnt here, next time before some attack others with insults, stop for a moment and consider the possibility they may actually be more intelligent than yourselves and not escapees from the loony farm. I am refering to minority, those that think they have thier doctorates in everything known to mankind.

OK, but how much have they had to ingest for it to be lethal and the article talks about an overdose of DEET ?...surely that would be a very large amount

how do you know it would have to be a larg amount? What is a larg amount? Are you a toxicologist? The questions go on and on.

[vijer]

I can't even imagine the thought process that goes into making a concoction like this. Lets see, hmm a chemical to kill bugs, I bet that will give me a good buzz.

The sad thing is the girls probably didn't know what they were drinking.

New male friend "hey I knows get drink gives buzz party drank"

Girls "OK do it."

New male friend "mumble mumble is made bug poison." music blaring

Girls "what?

New male friend "the person big drink get from bartender is"

Girls "we buy drink first, here money"

Remember the girls are from Quebec and likely spoke limited English and their "new friends" were from Brazil and likely spoke limited English. Lots of opportunity for miscommunication. The guys if they drank it too probably were bigger and also probably had a lot of beer too that would have diluted the poison.

Very sad

[Colabamumbai]

I am sure hoping that the girls would not have known what they were drinking. Thailand has a problem with rodents and sprays and it is killing foreign travellers.

We should all be looking at ways to protect ourselves and our fellow travellers, talking to hotel managers, educating those most likely to be staying in hotels, making people aware of the risks involved. Normally it is not something we think about until we read of a hotel death that seems suspicious.

[qdinthailand]

who the hell is writing these reports,police hunt for 2 portuguese who where drinking with the sisters,now they say it was 2 brazilians.

Possibly because they talked with people who knew that Portuguese was being spoken, so someone assumed the men were from Portugal, but further investigation found them to be Brazilian instead.

Certainly no American would do this - they would have no clue what language was being spoken, much less assume the dudes were from Portugal (where the hell is Portugal?) Must have been them Euros said Portugal!

[market trader]

I've seen people do some pretty strange things to get high, but drinking DEET was not one of them. That crap in banned in the US because it is so toxic. The girls probably never knew what they were drinking. So sad.

I presume that you are saying that Deet is banned in the USA... Well I am sorry to inform you that you are wrong... I have with me here in Thailand Deep woods off - sportsman. Which contains 30% deet. I purchased it in New York in May of this year.

[qdinthailand]

I've seen people do some pretty strange things to get high, but drinking DEET was not one of them. That crap in banned in the US because it is so toxic. The girls probably never knew what they were drinking. So sad.

I presume that you are saying that Deet is banned in the USA... Well I am sorry to inform you that you are wrong... I have with me here in Thailand Deep woods off - sportsman. Which contains 30% deet. I purchased it in New York in May of this year.

Maybe you think its banned because you can't buy it "mail-order". It can't be shipped thru the mails in the U.S. (legally). But certainly available for over-the-counter purchase in any sporting goods/outdoor gear store.

Ask for Jungle Juice (one brand name) - 98.11% Deet, 1.89% 'other ingredients'. Got a bottle of it right here.

Edited September 1, 2012 by qdinthailand

[nietzche]

so I guess the tales that some posted on the other page about mozzie repellents being put into drinks weren't to far off then. The worldly and wise branded them as loonies running around in tin foil hats with conspiricy theories. I guess there is something to be learnt here, next time before some attack others with insults, stop for a moment and consider the possibility they may actually be more intelligent than yourselves and not escapees from the loony farm. I am refering to minority, those that think they have thier doctorates in everything known to mankind.

OK, but how much have they had to ingest for it to be lethal and the article talks about an overdose of DEET ?...surely that would be a very large amount

I can only speculate that the likely scenario was that they ingested SEVERAL of these cocktails, each containing an amount of DEET low enough to be not detected.