Land Prices

[TwoDogz]

to have a new land survey done is mandatory, we found that 7 rai became 5.5. rai because the canal a road had been redrawn, no bad intend by the seller. Farmers are simply not trained to think in these terms. Only one meter off on your border line can amount to a substantial area.

land surveying is important also for a future sale.

A kilo is 1000gr , one rai must have 1600sqm, you pay 100, you want 100, that's what I had to teach my wife

If it is charnote it will have the land size and boundaries on the title deed. Jim

I think they are starting to use GPS numbers now on the land boundaries. Do some google research on the 4 different types of land ownership papers. Only the true charnote is work buying.

Not really, the Nor Sor titles are also very good.

[PattayaPhom]

^^^^^^ You are too well informed my friend.

Paddy fields that if lucky return 2000 baht per rai per year, landlocked, no thanks.

Probably take at least 45 years to get my money back, unless I can find another sucker.

No thank you, will give this once in a life time opportunity a miss.

So 1 Rai of land only produces 50kg of rice per year according to you.....If thats what youve experienced or been told I suggest you go research yourselfe.

Who mentioned Rice?

Read what is written, not what you want to read.

As for research, head over to probably the most informed section of TV, the farming section, from the coal face experiences posted by members complete with Excel spreadsheets.

Seeing as you mention rice, whats your take on the rice pledge fiasco taking place right now?

Why is I see farmers from upcountry in the sois and moo baans of Bkk everyday trying to sell rice direct to the public rather than go thtough the rice barons upcountry?

Dont assume because this is Thailand its immune from external world wide market forces, have you seen the price of rubber lately?

What would you consider to be an average return per rai per year, clear profit?

As per post 10 by yourselfe 'Paddy fields that if lucky return 2000 baht per rai per year'.......paddy fileds=rice fields

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^^ You are too well informed my friend.

Paddy fields that if lucky return 2000 baht per rai per year, landlocked, no thanks.

Probably take at least 45 years to get my money back, unless I can find another sucker.

No thank you, will give this once in a life time opportunity a miss.

So 1 Rai of land only produces 50kg of rice per year according to you.....If thats what youve experienced or been told I suggest you go research yourselfe.

Who mentioned Rice?

Read what is written, not what you want to read.

As for research, head over to probably the most informed section of TV, the farming section, from the coal face experiences posted by members complete with Excel spreadsheets.

Seeing as you mention rice, whats your take on the rice pledge fiasco taking place right now?

Why is I see farmers from upcountry in the sois and moo baans of Bkk everyday trying to sell rice direct to the public rather than go thtough the rice barons upcountry?

Dont assume because this is Thailand its immune from external world wide market forces, have you seen the price of rubber lately?

What would you consider to be an average return per rai per year, clear profit?

As per post 10 by yourselfe 'Paddy fields that if lucky return 2000 baht per rai per year'.......paddy fileds=rice fields

"paddy fileds=rice fields"

A paddy field is a flooded parcel of arable land used for growing rice and other semiaquatic crops,

taken from here,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_field

However dont let you ignorance on the subject cloud your judgement.

Some invest in farmland as a way of securing their childrens future, some invest in educating their children rather than tie them to the land, some listen to Pattaya time share touts, some come seeking advice on where to invest in condos in Bkk as a way to secure their future.

Whichever option you choose is of no concern to me, personally I chose ING and Aberdeen, I appreciate some may not have that option.

Notice you were either unwilling or unable to answer the questions I posed.

Dont worry there is another poster who is unable to answer, where, despite his claims there are properties in Pattaya producing an 8% ROI.

Dont believe everything you read on the internet

[PattayaPhom]

I think if you asked 1,000 people what is a paddy field, they would say its where rice is grown, yes we can all look at dictionaries and Wilki but laymans terms, paddy field=rice field

[Gary A]

to have a new land survey done is mandatory, we found that 7 rai became 5.5. rai because the canal a road had been redrawn, no bad intend by the seller. Farmers are simply not trained to think in these terms. Only one meter off on your border line can amount to a substantial area.

land surveying is important also for a future sale.

A kilo is 1000gr , one rai must have 1600sqm, you pay 100, you want 100, that's what I had to teach my wife

If it is charnote it will have the land size and boundaries on the title deed. Jim

I think they are starting to use GPS numbers now on the land boundaries. Do some google research on the 4 different types of land ownership papers. Only the true charnote is work buying.

Not really, the Nor Sor titles are also very good.

I have a friend who bought and paid for 80 rai of Nor Sor land and when he eventually got the chanote, it was for 56 rai. What could he do? If you buy this type of land, you better know where the boundaries are and take careful measurements.

[TwoDogz]

If it is charnote it will have the land size and boundaries on the title deed. Jim

I think they are starting to use GPS numbers now on the land boundaries. Do some google research on the 4 different types of land ownership papers. Only the true charnote is work buying.

Not really, the Nor Sor titles are also very good.

I have a friend who bought and paid for 80 rai of Nor Sor land and when he eventually got the chanote, it was for 56 rai. What could he do? If you buy this type of land, you better know where the boundaries are and take careful measurements.

Exactly, his problem though for not getting it surveyed beforehand or upon signing of contract subject to etc.

[jamescollister]

I/ we have land with the entire spectrum of titles and it makes little difference as long as you use the land for the purpose that the title allows. Land prices have risen yearly around here and will continue to do so, in my opinion.

Strange enough the land that has, on paper at least gone up the most was bought with no title at all, just possession by usage. This allowed a change of usage from farming to industrial, if I said how much that has risen in value there would be a load of replies saying bull shit, that can't happen, but it can and you just have to see the potential when you buy.

Things change, if you get in first you can win. Jim

[isanbirder]

For safety sake, never buy land without an unencumbered chanote. If you're not sure, don't buy. Too many people have lost their shirts by thinking they were clever.

In this part of the world, a paddy field is a rice field. You can of course grow other crops on it if you wish. But you cannot build on it without raising the earth level with landfill.

In the last resort, any land in Thailand is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it. Obviously land with road access, electricity and water, is likely to fetch more. But there is really no such thing as a 'land price'.

[jamescollister]

For safety sake, never buy land without an unencumbered chanote. If you're not sure, don't buy. Too many people have lost their shirts by thinking they were clever.

In this part of the world, a paddy field is a rice field. You can of course grow other crops on it if you wish. But you cannot build on it without raising the earth level with landfill.

In the last resort, any land in Thailand is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it. Obviously land with road access, electricity and water, is likely to fetch more. But there is really no such thing as a 'land price'.

For safety sake, never buy land without an unencumbered chanote. If you're not sure, don't buy. Too many people have lost their shirts by thinking they were clever.

In this part of the world, a paddy field is a rice field. You can of course grow other crops on it if you wish. But you cannot build on it without raising the earth level with landfill.

In the last resort, any land in Thailand is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it. Obviously land with road access, electricity and water, is likely to fetch more. But there is really no such thing as a 'land price'.

Sorry IB, but you can not build on it, if it is zoned for farming the only thing you can build is a hut. Even charnote gives no right to build. You can apply for permission, but if it is zoned farm land you will not get it. Just like green belt land in many countries, it's cheap because it will never get planning permission for any other use.

In my case I had to get local. provincial and national planning permission. No different than the west to do it legally. Jim

[MYKTHEMIN]

For safety sake, never buy land without an unencumbered chanote. If you're not sure, don't buy. Too many people have lost their shirts by thinking they were clever.

In this part of the world, a paddy field is a rice field. You can of course grow other crops on it if you wish. But you cannot build on it without raising the earth level with landfill.

In the last resort, any land in Thailand is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it. Obviously land with road access, electricity and water, is likely to fetch more. But there is really no such thing as a 'land price'.

For safety sake, never buy land without an unencumbered chanote. If you're not sure, don't buy. Too many people have lost their shirts by thinking they were clever.

In this part of the world, a paddy field is a rice field. You can of course grow other crops on it if you wish. But you cannot build on it without raising the earth level with landfill.

In the last resort, any land in Thailand is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it. Obviously land with road access, electricity and water, is likely to fetch more. But there is really no such thing as a 'land price'.

Sorry IB, but you can not build on it, if it is zoned for farming the only thing you can build is a hut. Even charnote gives no right to build. You can apply for permission, but if it is zoned farm land you will not get it. Just like green belt land in many countries, it's cheap because it will never get planning permission for any other use.

In my case I had to get local. provincial and national planning permission. No different than the west to do it legally. Jim

Well in my village near Loei, you can build anywhere you like, there is no such thing as planning permission here.

[jamescollister]

For safety sake, never buy land without an unencumbered chanote. If you're not sure, don't buy. Too many people have lost their shirts by thinking they were clever.

In this part of the world, a paddy field is a rice field. You can of course grow other crops on it if you wish. But you cannot build on it without raising the earth level with landfill.

In the last resort, any land in Thailand is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it. Obviously land with road access, electricity and water, is likely to fetch more. But there is really no such thing as a 'land price'.

For safety sake, never buy land without an unencumbered chanote. If you're not sure, don't buy. Too many people have lost their shirts by thinking they were clever.

In this part of the world, a paddy field is a rice field. You can of course grow other crops on it if you wish. But you cannot build on it without raising the earth level with landfill.

In the last resort, any land in Thailand is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it. Obviously land with road access, electricity and water, is likely to fetch more. But there is really no such thing as a 'land price'.

Sorry IB, but you can not build on it, if it is zoned for farming the only thing you can build is a hut. Even charnote gives no right to build. You can apply for permission, but if it is zoned farm land you will not get it. Just like green belt land in many countries, it's cheap because it will never get planning permission for any other use.

In my case I had to get local. provincial and national planning permission. No different than the west to do it legally. Jim

Well in my village near Loei, you can build anywhere you like, there is no such thing as planning permission here.

Never is, until someone from the lands department or provincial Government comes along and tells you to knock it down. Believe me you need planning permission or the building can go at any time.

In my nearest small town, Buntharik a whole row of little shops were give 7 days to vacate, no planing permission. Been there for years, but the power company and land authority had plans for the area. No shops standing now.

In some cases you can loose the land if it crown farmland and you build a house. As you have not used the land for the purpose of farming, that land can and has been given to another family to farm.

Out in the sticks the local amphor ran the show, but with roads and communication the big Government is coming and it's there rules that count. Jim

[kwonitoy]

I have to agree with the above post,

I built our house 6 years ago without any permisson from anyone, before or after the build. Added outbuildings a year or two latter and a shop last year.

Lots all around our house have been rice fields that are bit by bit getting filled in and houses built on them, no permits required.

As with everything in this country there's no hard and fast rules that apply everywhere

[rgs2001uk]

I have to agree with the above post,

I built our house 6 years ago without any permisson from anyone, before or after the build. Added outbuildings a year or two latter and a shop last year.

Lots all around our house have been rice fields that are bit by bit getting filled in and houses built on them, no permits required.

As with everything in this country there's no hard and fast rules that apply everywhere

The mrs and I looked at a "farang mansion" in Surin a couple of years ago, I asked to see the chanote, the girl gave me a photocopy, she was unaware I looked in the top Rh side and noticed it wasnt chanot.

I then asked to see the planning permission for the house, she looked at me as if I had landed from Mars.

Needless to say the sale didnt proceed, and God help any sucker who is dumb enough to buy the house.

For the record, it sat on 3 rai was two storey about 200 sq, the asking price was 8 million, yes I shit you not.

The house if lucky was 2 million to build, and land another million.

Just because the law hasnt caught up with you yet dont think it wont.

Play with fire and get your fingers burnt.

I am with JC all the way on this.

[jamescollister]

I have to agree with the above post,

I built our house 6 years ago without any permisson from anyone, before or after the build. Added outbuildings a year or two latter and a shop last year.

Lots all around our house have been rice fields that are bit by bit getting filled in and houses built on them, no permits required.

As with everything in this country there's no hard and fast rules that apply everywhere

No the laws are there, but people take little notice of them in the out-lands. It just takes a vindictive neighbor or competitor to file a complaint with the big Government and you have a problem.

A friend of mine, who lives in a remote area has been given a demolition order for a building without permission. He upset the wrong guy.

When I built our little factory to process rubber. everyone said no problem. Yet when I did it legally I had to get permits from the EPA. Factories Department and if you can believe it a health and safety permit.

The laws are similar to any western country, just not enforce as vigorously [YET] times are a changing and Government wants their taxes and control. Jim

[MYKTHEMIN]

I have to agree with the above post,

I built our house 6 years ago without any permisson from anyone, before or after the build. Added outbuildings a year or two latter and a shop last year.

Lots all around our house have been rice fields that are bit by bit getting filled in and houses built on them, no permits required.

As with everything in this country there's no hard and fast rules that apply everywhere

No the laws are there, but people take little notice of them in the out-lands. It just takes a vindictive neighbor or competitor to file a complaint with the big Government and you have a problem.

A friend of mine, who lives in a remote area has been given a demolition order for a building without permission. He upset the wrong guy.

When I built our little factory to process rubber. everyone said no problem. Yet when I did it legally I had to get permits from the EPA. Factories Department and if you can believe it a health and safety permit.

The laws are similar to any western country, just not enforce as vigorously [YET] times are a changing and Government wants their taxes and control. Jim

This is thailand and if as you stated was correct then all of the villages/small towns would all come down. NOT A HOPE!!!!

[kwonitoy]

I have to agree with the above post,

I built our house 6 years ago without any permisson from anyone, before or after the build. Added outbuildings a year or two latter and a shop last year.

Lots all around our house have been rice fields that are bit by bit getting filled in and houses built on them, no permits required.

As with everything in this country there's no hard and fast rules that apply everywhere

No the laws are there, but people take little notice of them in the out-lands. It just takes a vindictive neighbor or competitor to file a complaint with the big Government and you have a problem.

A friend of mine, who lives in a remote area has been given a demolition order for a building without permission. He upset the wrong guy.

When I built our little factory to process rubber. everyone said no problem. Yet when I did it legally I had to get permits from the EPA. Factories Department and if you can believe it a health and safety permit.

The laws are similar to any western country, just not enforce as vigorously [YET] times are a changing and Government wants their taxes and control. Jim

<p>

I'd agree with that, the laws are there but enforced very differently around the country

When we built I did ask the wife about permits and finally got her to ask at the ampuher, they looked at her like she was from Mars and said up to you

All around us in the last year teachers building some very nice houses and same process.

Go to the kamnan, get entered in a village ledger and assigned a house address. That's it for legalities

Proves nothing anywhere else though, just the way it is at our little wide spot in the road

Ken

Edited October 11, 2012 by kwonitoy

[Gary A]

The best ownership document you can have is a red seal chanote. There is also a green seal chanote. There is a difference but I'm not sure what the restrictions are concerning the green seal. My Thai wife will not consider buying any land without a chanote. Many people will tell you that other documents are fine but you had better know what you are doing. Land prices without a chanote are cheaper for a reason.

[bunnydrops]

I have to agree with the above post,

I built our house 6 years ago without any permisson from anyone, before or after the build. Added outbuildings a year or two latter and a shop last year.

Lots all around our house have been rice fields that are bit by bit getting filled in and houses built on them, no permits required.

As with everything in this country there's no hard and fast rules that apply everywhere

No the laws are there, but people take little notice of them in the out-lands. It just takes a vindictive neighbor or competitor to file a complaint with the big Government and you have a problem.

A friend of mine, who lives in a remote area has been given a demolition order for a building without permission. He upset the wrong guy.

When I built our little factory to process rubber. everyone said no problem. Yet when I did it legally I had to get permits from the EPA. Factories Department and if you can believe it a health and safety permit.

The laws are similar to any western country, just not enforce as vigorously [YET] times are a changing and Government wants their taxes and control. Jim

<p>

I'd agree with that, the laws are there but enforced very differently around the country

When we built I did ask the wife about permits and finally got her to ask at the ampuher, they looked at her like she was from Mars and said up to you

All around us in the last year teachers building some very nice houses and same process.

Go to the kamnan, get entered in a village ledger and assigned a house address. That's it for legalities

Proves nothing anywhere else though, just the way it is at our little wide spot in the road

Ken

Pretty much the same here. Got a "building permit" 200bt and was told if I didn't get it finished in a year it would be another 200. Got "map" showing house on plot. Used it to get my residency for drivers license etc.

[jamescollister]

I have to agree with the above post,

I built our house 6 years ago without any permisson from anyone, before or after the build. Added outbuildings a year or two latter and a shop last year.

Lots all around our house have been rice fields that are bit by bit getting filled in and houses built on them, no permits required.

As with everything in this country there's no hard and fast rules that apply everywhere

No the laws are there, but people take little notice of them in the out-lands. It just takes a vindictive neighbor or competitor to file a complaint with the big Government and you have a problem.

A friend of mine, who lives in a remote area has been given a demolition order for a building without permission. He upset the wrong guy.

When I built our little factory to process rubber. everyone said no problem. Yet when I did it legally I had to get permits from the EPA. Factories Department and if you can believe it a health and safety permit.

The laws are similar to any western country, just not enforce as vigorously [YET] times are a changing and Government wants their taxes and control. Jim

This is thailand and if as you stated was correct then all of the villages/small towns would all come down. NOT A HOPE!!!!

Think you are missing the point, villages, towns etc will have no land titles until the charnote people come and survey, That means they are held by possession not by title.

Before the Government entered the land title game all land was owned by the Crown. The Government then started issuing titles, under the land reform act or something and differing departments could issue titles, all having differing rights.

So Joe Smith comes along and builds his house on land restricted to farming, local headman, sub Gov and amphor don't care. All is fine, but the control of that land falls under a national body. One day they rock up, either from a complaint or to issue charnote titles and there on farming land stands not a worker hut, but a big house. The home owner had no right to build in the first place and the house can be knocked down and as the land has not been used for the purpose that the title originally stated [ think 3 years ] you have lost the right to use that land reverts to the Crown.

Just because it does not happen out in the boonies often doesn't mean it will not happen in the future. Thailand has taken up a program of a national land title registry, it's a big country and will take many years to survey, but they will come. Then it will be up to them what, stays and what goes. Jim

[MYKTHEMIN]

I have to agree with the above post,

I built our house 6 years ago without any permisson from anyone, before or after the build. Added outbuildings a year or two latter and a shop last year.

Lots all around our house have been rice fields that are bit by bit getting filled in and houses built on them, no permits required.

As with everything in this country there's no hard and fast rules that apply everywhere

No the laws are there, but people take little notice of them in the out-lands. It just takes a vindictive neighbor or competitor to file a complaint with the big Government and you have a problem.

A friend of mine, who lives in a remote area has been given a demolition order for a building without permission. He upset the wrong guy.

When I built our little factory to process rubber. everyone said no problem. Yet when I did it legally I had to get permits from the EPA. Factories Department and if you can believe it a health and safety permit.

The laws are similar to any western country, just not enforce as vigorously [YET] times are a changing and Government wants their taxes and control. Jim

This is thailand and if as you stated was correct then all of the villages/small towns would all come down. NOT A HOPE!!!!

Think you are missing the point, villages, towns etc will have no land titles until the charnote people come and survey, That means they are held by possession not by title.

Before the Government entered the land title game all land was owned by the Crown. The Government then started issuing titles, under the land reform act or something and differing departments could issue titles, all having differing rights.

So Joe Smith comes along and builds his house on land restricted to farming, local headman, sub Gov and amphor don't care. All is fine, but the control of that land falls under a national body. One day they rock up, either from a complaint or to issue charnote titles and there on farming land stands not a worker hut, but a big house. The home owner had no right to build in the first place and the house can be knocked down and as the land has not been used for the purpose that the title originally stated [ think 3 years ] you have lost the right to use that land reverts to the Crown.

Just because it does not happen out in the boonies often doesn't mean it will not happen in the future. Thailand has taken up a program of a national land title registry, it's a big country and will take many years to survey, but they will come. Then it will be up to them what, stays and what goes. Jim

s

OK James my wife who laughed at your comments, has just talked to her uncle who is head of the local land office, and his words were Farang talk dog's &lt;deleted&gt;, So in my opinion you are just worrying about nothing and causing undue concern where there is none!

[rgs2001uk]

For those thinking JC is talking &lt;deleted&gt;, try watching Thai television.

Probably the most famous case right now involves a farang mansion on Phuket.

Ask those in Petchabun who have been told to demolish their illegally constructed resorts.

In Rayong province there was a complete moo baan under threat of being demolished.

I have witnessed the local authorities seal off a house with tape and put a notice on the building to the effect the building was illegal and all work was to stop.

A friend in Si Sa Ket was paid a visit by local authorities, they were that dumb they hadnt even bothered to check first, they explained to the Thai woman tea money would be required to make the problem go away, massive lost of face when the woman told them to F*** OFF and produced the planning permission.

This poster here got it right,

"Pretty much the same here. Got a "building permit" 200bt and was told if I didn't get it finished in a year it would be another 200. Got "map" showing house on plot. Used it to get my residency for drivers license etc.'

For the cost of 200 baht, cover your ass.

I have seen these certificates in laminated plastic on most houses being built, if they arent on display the building foreman will have it.

[jamescollister]

Here's a list of land titles and what they mean and who is in charge of issuing the title.

Land Title Deed Law

Thai Real Estate Lawyer

Land titles: ownership and claims of use or possession

Source: Thailand Law Online

Land titles for private use can be issued by the Land Department or other government departments in Thailand. The title allows certain private use and grants certain rights to use, possess, own or transfer rights to a specified area of land in Thailand. Only the Chanote or Nor Sor 4 Jor is a true ownership land title deed in Thailand.

Sor Kor 1 | Nor Sor 2 | Nor Sor 3 | Nor Sor 3 Gor | Nor Sor 3 Khor | Nor Sor 5 | Nor Sor 4 Jor | Sor Por Gor | Sor Tor Gor | Por Bor Tor 5 | Nor Kor 3 | Gor Sor Nor |

Land Titles issued by the Land Department are divided into 6 main categories as follows:

Sor Kor 1 (S.K. 1), is a notification form of possession of land. This document entitles the holder to occupy and utilize the S.K. 1 land, SK. 1 land may be sold or transferred to the other if the holder abandons the intention to possess the land and delivers S.K. 1 land to the transferee, it also may be passed on by inheritance. Depending on the land’s location, this document may be upgraded to Nor. Sor. 3, Nor. Sor. 3 Gor or Nor. Sor. 4 (Chanote). Sor. Kor. 1 has never been issued since 1972 and the time to upgrade this notification or apply for a proper title at the Land Department has expired, February 2010 (read bangkokpost or if this link does not work try samuiforsale). Upgrading from now on only possible through a Court procedure.

Nor Sor 2 (N.S. 2) is a consent letter issued by the Land Department to the holder. This document entitles the holder to occupy and utilize the land for a temporary period, the holder has to commence occupation and utilization on the N.S. 2 land within 6 months and have to complete the utilization on the N.S. 2 land within 3 years from the receipt of N. S. 2. N.S. 2 land may not be sold or transferred except for inheritance. Depending on the land’s location, this document may be upgraded to Sor. 3, Nor. Sor. 3 Gor or Nor. Sor. 4 (Chanote), however, after upgrade the prohibition for sale or transfer is still effective in full force.

Nor Sor 3 (N.S. 3), is an instrument which signifies the land occupier’s right to possess the land, but without conferring actual possession. The borders of the land must be confirmed by neighbors and by a ground survey before the document is issued. There are no “parcel points” i.e. numbered concrete posts which are hammered to mark the boundaries of the land. This may cause problems in verifying the land area. There are no restriction regarding the use of the land (provided that the use does not contravene any height restrictions, environment protection laws, etc.) the land may be sold subject to a 30- days notice period. This document issued by district officer (Land Office).

Nor Sor 3 Gor (N.S. 3 G.), is an instrument with the same legal basis as Nor. Sor. 3, the difference being that Nor. Sor. 3 Gor has the land area parcel points set by using the aerial survey. There is no need to publicize any legal acts, and it is possible to partition (divide) the land into smaller plots. This document issued by district officer.

Nor Sor 3 Khor (N.S. 3 K.), is an instrument with the same legal basis as Nor. Sor. 3 Gor, the difference being that Nor. Sor. 3 Khor issued in the area which has no parcel points set by using the aerial survey. There is no need to publicize any legal acts, and it is possible to partition (divide) the land into smaller plots. This document issued by land officer.

Nor Sor 5 (N.S. 5) is a document showing the verification in the right of the holder in the N.S. 5 land, if the holder has N.S. 5 land along with utilization certificate, it indicate that the district officer has confirmed the utilization on such N.S. 5 land, so this N.S. 5 land with the utilization certificate can be sold or transfer to other person by registration at the land office, however, if the holder have N.S. 5 with S.K. 1 or have only N.S. 5 without any other supporting evidence, it indicate that the district officer has not yet confirmed the utilization on such N.S. 5 land and this N.S. 5 may not be sold or transferred except for inheritance.

Nor Sor 4 Jor (N.S. 4 J.) or Chanote title deed is the only document which can be described as a land freehold title deed, because it is the only one confirming the ownership of the land. The land is accurately surveyed and its area and boundaries are determined by using GPS. There is no need to publicize any legal acts, and it is possible to partition (divide) the land into smaller plots. This document issued by land officer.

Land Title documents issued by other government departments (other than the land department) are divided into 5 main categories as follows:

Sor Por Gor 4-01 (S.P.G.. 4-01), is an allotment of land from the Land Reformative Committee, and under no circumstance may this land be bought or sold. It confers the right to occupy only and be transferred only by inheritance. It seems that the land may be used for agriculture only.

Sor Tor Gor (S.T.G.), is an instrument issued only in the zone of national reserved forest, the holder of this title document have the right to reside and live on the STG. land. STG. land is prohibited for sale, however, the right of the holder to reside and live on the STG. land can be passed on heir by inheritance. This document issued by the Forest Department.

Por Bor Tor 5 (P.B.T. 5), is an evidence showing that the occupier of a plot of land has been issued a tax number and has paid tax for using the benefit of the land. This confers no right at all but was formerly used to establish that the holder was occupying a plot of land and could apply for a Sor Kor 1.

Nor Kor 3 (N.K.. 3), is a utilization certificate issued under the act of land allocation for living B.E. 2511. This document issued only for member of self-help settlement.

Gor Sor Nor 5 (G.S.N. 5), is a utilization certificate issued under the act of Land Allocation for Living B.E. 2511. This document issued only for member of cooperative settlement.

In practice only viable land titles for long term registered rent (lease) or purchase are the ones issued by the Land Department, and from the land title Nor Sor Sam up to Nor Sor 4 Jor (Chanote) are the only serious and interesting land titles as rights of sale and lease can be registered by the competent authority (i.e. the Land Department) and offer confirmed rights of possession or ownership.

Land Measurements in Thailand (rai, ngan, wah). Land prices are usually expressed in baht per rai or (for smaller plots) baht per wah. For building the decimal system of units based on the meter as a unit length is used in Thailand.

1 Rai 4 Ngan (or 1600 Sq.m.)

1 Ngan 100 Wah (or 400 Sq.m.)

1 Wah 4 Sq.m.

1 Acre 2.5 Rai (approx.)

1 Hectare 6.25 Rai (approx.)

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<a class="tagslink" href="http://www.isaanlawonline.com/tag/Chanote.html" rel="tag category" title="Chanote">Chanote Gor Sor Nor Land Ownership Nor Kor Nor Sor Gor Por Bor Tor Sor Kor Sor Por Gor Thailand Land Laws Title Deeds in Thail

[jamescollister]

For those thinking JC is talking &lt;deleted&gt;, try watching Thai television.

Probably the most famous case right now involves a farang mansion on Phuket.

Ask those in Petchabun who have been told to demolish their illegally constructed resorts.

In Rayong province there was a complete moo baan under threat of being demolished.

I have witnessed the local authorities seal off a house with tape and put a notice on the building to the effect the building was illegal and all work was to stop.

A friend in Si Sa Ket was paid a visit by local authorities, they were that dumb they hadnt even bothered to check first, they explained to the Thai woman tea money would be required to make the problem go away, massive lost of face when the woman told them to F*** OFF and produced the planning permission.

This poster here got it right,

"Pretty much the same here. Got a "building permit" 200bt and was told if I didn't get it finished in a year it would be another 200. Got "map" showing house on plot. Used it to get my residency for drivers license etc.'

For the cost of 200 baht, cover your ass.

I have seen these certificates in laminated plastic on most houses being built, if they arent on display the building foreman will have it.

rgs, think the problem is most Thais will say no problem and the farang builds. He thinks it's a free for all when it comes to land. It is not, they build on land that will not be granted a building permit, it is farm land and must be used for farming, You need to get the title changed if the land is zoned for farming, not as easy as it may sound.

On the poster who said his wife's Uncle is the boss of the land office and he says no problem. If there is no problem he can issue the building permit and change the usage from farming to residential. Willing to bet if asked to do so there will suddenly be a problem. Things are on computer now, the old days of a local official giving the green light have gone, things go through BKK. Even out here at the back of beyond Government officials are wary of putting their name down on a computer record, bits of paper can be lost, but computers never forget. Jim

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^Jim,

for those who think its no problemo, just google this name, Surayud Chulanont and read about the goings on at Khao Yai.

The word of the day in Thailand these days is, corruption.

No one is willing to put their name to anything that comes under public scrutiny.

You only have to read these forums to hear about people buying land after being told it would be upgraded to full chanot status, some have been waiting years.

Another problem is basic ignorance on the part of many, Thais as well as farang, its the bloody blind leading the blind.

The farang with no knowledge of Thai law listens to some uneducated girl and her folks and believes what they tell him.

Face plays a part, the family dont want to lose face by saying they dont know, they also at times wish to play up their role/status in the community.

Its amazing how many Thais claim to know someone in a position of power or influence, but when the proverbial hits the fan these people are nowhere to be seen.

I have mentioned before about a neighbour of mine, she is stuck with 300 rai in Ayuttaya, the land is like a millstone round her neck, bloody worthless gov't land that she cant sell.

As I mentioned before, cover your ass, because I will wager when the time comes all those saying no problem will be nowhere to be found, or deny ever having said it.

[David Peters]

^^^^^Jim,

for those who think its no problemo, just google this name, Surayud Chulanont and read about the goings on at Khao Yai.

The word of the day in Thailand these days is, corruption.

No one is willing to put their name to anything that comes under public scrutiny.

You only have to read these forums to hear about people buying land after being told it would be upgraded to full chanot status, some have been waiting years.

Another problem is basic ignorance on the part of many, Thais as well as farang, its the bloody blind leading the blind.

The farang with no knowledge of Thai law listens to some uneducated girl and her folks and believes what they tell him.

Face plays a part, the family dont want to lose face by saying they dont know, they also at times wish to play up their role/status in the community.

Its amazing how many Thais claim to know someone in a position of power or influence, but when the proverbial hits the fan these people are nowhere to be seen.

I have mentioned before about a neighbour of mine, she is stuck with 300 rai in Ayuttaya, the land is like a millstone round her neck, bloody worthless gov't land that she cant sell.

As I mentioned before, cover your ass, because I will wager when the time comes all those saying no problem will be nowhere to be found, or deny ever having said it.

Land titles and ownership are a hot topic currently in Thailand. Many many Thais just can not even own the land they have been farming for generations.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2012/10/11/peoples-movement-for-a-just-society/

My solution for expats and their Thai families. Buy as little as possible. Just enough for your needs.

[dinger]

I would like to respond tp the OP's original question, I am not going to get into all of the paper work issues, that is for others to sort out.

We just struck a deal to buy 8 Rai, just out side of Mahasarakham in our village on tha main road to Wapi. It is paddy land and is producing right now. It is about 300mt off of the main rroad with dirt road access. No power within 200mts. It sits adjacent to a lake so there is a water source. We agreed on 40k per Rai, with the condition that all of the paperwork needed to be in order and reviewed by a lawyer prior to any money exchange.

[jamescollister]

I would like to respond tp the OP's original question, I am not going to get into all of the paper work issues, that is for others to sort out.

We just struck a deal to buy 8 Rai, just out side of Mahasarakham in our village on tha main road to Wapi. It is paddy land and is producing right now. It is about 300mt off of the main rroad with dirt road access. No power within 200mts. It sits adjacent to a lake so there is a water source. We agreed on 40k per Rai, with the condition that all of the paperwork needed to be in order and reviewed by a lawyer prior to any money exchange.

You are a wise man, there is nothing wrong with buying land legally and using it for the purpose that the title allows. I have 100 rai and a small factory and touch wood it is all above board. It's when you start using cheap land to build houses resorts etc that you will find trouble one day.

Be safe be legal, some of these dodgy deals carry jail time in Thailand. Jim