British Man Electrocuted At New Restaurant In Jomtien

[TwoDogz]

So sad. What really gets me is that this man went ahead and did this. There must have been a little voice in the back of his head when he saw the wires and water. Most foreigners know about these things and simply shy away from them. dam_n! This is just terrible and I feel embarrassed over this deadly mistake.

You are making the assumption that the water was present on the floor when he started working.

'Police were called in to investigate the incident and confirmed that Mr. Jackson had entered a small store room underneath the stairs to fix the faulty pump but there was water on the floor which had leaked from the pump.'

[bangon04]

A lesson for all reading here. Switch OFF the main breaker before doing ANY electrical stuff here, no matter how small or big the appliance.

RIP brother. Trans

better still - switch off the whole street first - you never know if the main breaker has been installed correctly...

[xylophone]

Quote davejones: “How to you know that MOST electricians here lack proper training or don't care. Are you making this up or do you have real evidence. If you have real evidence, then please share. Otherwise, don't make comments that you can't back up. I've used electricians twice here and they both knew what they were doing. Both very professional”.

Then you have been extremely lucky, because in five years of living here and doing electrical repair work (yes I am a qualified but retired electrician) I have never seen anything which would constitute good practice. That includes doing some work in about 20 houses or thereabouts, so I have some experience.

Quote: “A lesson for all reading here. Switch OFF the main breaker before doing ANY electrical stuff here, no matter how small or big the appliance”.

Quote: “You are right, of course. But doing that is not foolproof. Not here. The main switch may have been overridden by one of the qualified technicians claiming to be electricians. I have seen it”.

You are quite right, some of the work done by qualified electricians is appalling. In one house I had bought and was renovating, I switched off the main circuit breaker at the distribution board thereby supposedly cutting off all the power to the house, in order to work on an air conditioner in the main bedroom. Just to be safe, I used my voltmeter to test the appliance and it was still live!!! Eventually found out why...........the electrician had wired the air-conditioner in the bedroom directly from the feed wires from the meter into the house BEFORE the feed actually got to the distribution board i.e. he stripped the installation back from the feed wires, which were in the roof, and taped the supply to the air-conditioner directly onto them. There was absolutely no way that this air-conditioner could be isolated.

I could go on and on, but won't, but suffice it to say that this place is a death trap as regards the electrical work in the vast majority of the buildings.

[DD13]

Thank you Chantsurfer I will follow up your helpful suggestion

[Arkady]

A lesson for all reading here. Switch OFF the main breaker before doing ANY electrical stuff here, no matter how small or big the appliance.

RIP brother. Trans

You are right, of course. But doing that is not foolproof. Not here. The main switch may have been overridden by one of the qualified technicians claiming to be electricians. I have seen it.

Me toooooooo, in my place.

My current electrician pointed out that his predecessor had done that in a part of our house (mainly the kitchen), apparently to prevent us from being inconvenienced by the breaker blacking out our power! It seems to be a common problem.

[meatballs]

Really stupid. If he'd just let somebody else take care of it he'd still be alive.

I'm afraid of stepping into pools of water here or even touching anything connected to electric.

Edited October 3, 2012 by meatballs

[Greer]

Everyone here has a lot to say about the "poor electrical work in Thailand" but all of them have overlooked the fact that it is THEIR responsibility to ensure that THEIR house or THEIR premises are safe. Not to mention that all the posters here seem to be very knowledgeable when it come to (after the fact) electrics - yet NOT ONE has mentioned the one inexpensive little device that could have saved ALL of those lives. It's called an Earth Leakage Relay - or a Residual Current Device. Look it up - and if you don't have one installed, then install one immediately. Before we have to type in yet another RIP!

Agree re the ELCB or Core Balance breaker, but it is most certainly not up to the homeowner to ensure that their house is electrically safe.

Unqualified people MUST NOT work on electrical systems AT ALL - and that includes trying to determine if the place is safe - how on earth would they know?

Thailand does have real electricians, and they are the ones who must be called - NOBODY should attempt their own electrical repairs - not ever.

It is terribly sad that a man has died, and a family is left to wish it had never happened, so please don't let this happen to anyone else - call the electrician.

My condolences to Tims wife and family. RIP.

[Jayman]

The cost of a RCCB (Safety Switch)

What is your life worth????, If you don't have one, it aint worth 2300B. Think about that for a moment.

Now you know better, it is a 10 min job, 500b max to have installed by a Thai, No grounding / Earthing is required for it to work. Easy to put into your rental with our your land lord even knowing and just take it with you when you move. It really is that easy and you are simply stupid without one.

If you want more info, just ask in this forum. Lots of guys in there that know allot. http://www.thaivisa....-housing-forum/

Here is what one looks like. click

Be bothered. If only this gentleman knew.

Your picture is so small I can't make anything of that more or less show it to the folks at the hardware store.

I did a search on "Fault Current Relay" in the forum link you posted and found but 1 entry.

Would someone in the know please provide more information on where to buy these, what they are called here in Thailand, and how they can be installed into an existing circuit breaker box.

Thanks.

edit:further searching I found this thread

Edited October 3, 2012 by Jayman

[brianP]

I went to the Electric utility co. i pay every month and asked around for a lineman/woman who could work the weekend and do dangerous work professionally.

Got one of the dudes who tangle with the nasties daily and all is well. RIP

[sirchai]

Condolences to his wife, family & friends. I opened a restaurant with my Thai wife and still remember the joy and excitement of embarking on a business venture together. I'm sure the deceased wife will be devastated - very sad news.

The Wife is deceased!? Don't you mean "the deceased's wife"?

It's a simple 1.

[simple1]

Condolences to his wife, family & friends. I opened a restaurant with my Thai wife and still remember the joy and excitement of embarking on a business venture together. I'm sure the deceased wife will be devastated - very sad news.

The Wife is deceased!? Don't you mean "the deceased's wife"?

It's a simple 1.

Thanks for tiding up the grammar & adding so much to the condolences - very constructive

[sirchai]

May he rest in PEACE. What a terrible way to die.---

[Keesters]

Everyone here has a lot to say about the "poor electrical work in Thailand" but all of them have overlooked the fact that it is THEIR responsibility to ensure that THEIR house or THEIR premises are safe. Not to mention that all the posters here seem to be very knowledgeable when it come to (after the fact) electrics - yet NOT ONE has mentioned the one inexpensive little device that could have saved ALL of those lives. It's called an Earth Leakage Relay - or a Residual Current Device. Look it up - and if you don't have one installed, then install one immediately. Before we have to type in yet another RIP!

While not entirely agreeing with you about the many THEIR statement I do agree about the Earth Leakage Relay. It is the first thing I thought of on reading the headline. I have had a German made one fitted in my house since it was built, 20+ years ago. It has tripped a few times and probably saved a few lives. But I do not recommend one of those Thai made "Safe-T-cut". All the ones I've seen have the sensitivity switchable in stages to OFF. When it is in the OFF position it might as well not be their. Most times when I've seen one fitted they are in the OFF position giving a false sense of security when in fact it is giving none.

My condolences to the family and friends of the deceased.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Keesters

[gaucho]

A lesson for all reading here. Switch OFF the main breaker before doing ANY electrical stuff here, no matter how small or big the appliance.

RIP brother. Trans

too true ....a lot of electrical work here is dodgy to say the least ....can recall a few years ago in the philippines .....i know different country but same "ATTITUDE " a monger jumping up and shouting no no no to a guy fixing electrical work in a bar ...apparently if he had of continued he would have killed himself ...the monger fixed the prob ....he was a retired lecky and had sold his business in scotland and was travelling the world ....he spent the next week re wiring the place for them free of charge .just got the materials and a couple of beers

[sunkist]

Everyone here has a lot to say about the "poor electrical work in Thailand" but all of them have overlooked the fact that it is THEIR responsibility to ensure that THEIR house or THEIR premises are safe. Not to mention that all the posters here seem to be very knowledgeable when it come to (after the fact) electrics - yet NOT ONE has mentioned the one inexpensive little device that could have saved ALL of those lives. It's called an Earth Leakage Relay - or a Residual Current Device. Look it up - and if you don't have one installed, then install one immediately. Before we have to type in yet another RIP!

Is this a Ground Fault Interrupter? Does it work on 220V. 220 is renowned as killer voltage for heart stoppage. Nothing good about water and ungrounded systems. Most modern countries have and electric code. As does International Building Code...This was not a home...was a commercial property and has different standards.. Horrible accident and condolences to his family.

[riceyummm]

Everyone here has a lot to say about the "poor electrical work in Thailand" but all of them have overlooked the fact that it is THEIR responsibility to ensure that THEIR house or THEIR premises are safe. Not to mention that all the posters here seem to be very knowledgeable when it come to (after the fact) electrics - yet NOT ONE has mentioned the one inexpensive little device that could have saved ALL of those lives. It's called an Earth Leakage Relay - or a Residual Current Device. Look it up - and if you don't have one installed, then install one immediately. Before we have to type in yet another RIP!

Is this a Ground Fault Interrupter? Does it work on 220V. 220 is renowned as killer voltage for heart stoppage. Nothing good about water and ungrounded systems. Most modern countries have and electric code. As does International Building Code...This was not a home...was a commercial property and has different standards.. Horrible accident and condolences to his family.

Yes, Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) in US and Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

[chantsurfer]

Here are some more images from Google

SafeTcut is a local Thai brand, popular here. http://tinyurl.com/i...safe-t-cut-rccb

When looking at products in Thailand though, depending how sensitive you are to pricing, Look for the Brand SQARE D or Panasonic for things like this for outlets or switches even.

Safe-T-cut products page here

​There are two kind of options that you have, either have it in your consumer box like in this photo. On the left you have the master Circuit Breakers (CB), then the RCCB which sometimes has a dial so you can choose your sensitivity and test function and to the right are convectional CB's that kick in when there is a short or some idiot used wiring to thin which is extreamly common in Thailand. When there is a leak in your electrical system, eg via you being electrocuted or a power board falling in water or getting wet from a leaking fridge or something, it automatically flicks the main CB's to off, it does this incredibly quickly. I am passionate about these as the only reason I am here is one of these saved my life, literally in Thailand. I am not suggesting those who are renting go down this path to be honest.

If you are renting or on tight budget, here is the cheap and easy way. See this image. What I am referring to ti the self contained box on the left. Do note that normally the consumer unit on the right with many CB's would have a pretty cover on it, with holes cut out for the breaker switches. You you don' have one of these, do not care as such, it doesn't effect the operation of the safety switch.

Basically the inbound main electrical cables into your home first enter the top of the safety switch unit, then you put 2 cables from the bottom of that to where ever they were going before. It does not have to be co-located with the CB's like this one, however it is often done that way. So the energy goes, from the meter out on the street to your house, through the safety switch then on as normal. This make s the whole house covered. When you leave the condo, if you want to take it with you for your next one, the cables into the top just go to where they originally came from. You can "disable" it by setting it to DIRECT. This is the same as not having one installed. I see this often in Thailand, as idiots do things that trip it, like putting power boards in the drainage tray on old fridges and and then defrost them, covering it in water for example. I am no expert, but it is "accepted" that it needs to be selected to 30 or below to avoid a heart attack from electrocution. I will admit I have disabled mine, twice now. When I have gone away for several days, I have selected it to DIRECT because if I had a false trip, I wanted the freezer to continue running. I also flick the CB on the water pump, 2 reasons, if a tap fails, it wont pump water into the house for 3 days when away, 2nd it is a hard reminder to turn the safety switch back on when we come home.

I actually have 4 of them in our house, 99% of Thai house and expat condo's or houses will only require one. I have 3 phase that was broken down into 3 X single phase circuits, I also have one on the generator circuit. That is over the top for most peoples requirements to be honest.

One of these circuits, does trip if it is selected on the most sensitive setting, 5 in my case and there is a thunder storm right over head and lighting strikes are hitting the ground close to the house. I often during a thunder storm, just select it 1 notch higher and it doesn't trip. There are many brands available. Global House seem to stock some cheaper brands or more of a selection that Home Pro I have noticed. 500b instillation cost is max, that is white man price and it is V easy to install !!!!

Do note, I am a huge believer in earthing / grounding. This doesn't take away from that as such, but the buety of these units is that they are stand alone and not relate to a earthing rod at all, this makes then a non excuse to install.

While I am here, please consider earthing any water pump, hot water heater and your computer outlet. Whats the point of surge protection if it can not dump the load? So yor laptop has surge protection inthe power supply, true, but it needs to be able to dump the load. See here how to earth the outlet you use your laptop on so it can look after it self.

I found Crossy the mod here home page helpful http://www.crossy.co...ring/index.html

Edited October 4, 2012 by chantsurfer

[DavoTheGun]

I Am amazed at the poor workmanship that is allowed to go on in Thailand, particularly the electrical work, being an electrical engineer I am very conscious of the fact as mentioned by others that an ELS must be installed, if you have not got one, get it! I got a big belt of my Hot Plate as did my Girl Friend a few weeks back at a well known Condo in Jomtien, found appliance faulty, no earth connected, no ELS, a disaster waiting to happen. One wonders how many other Condos around like this.

[MrKrabbe]

Everyone here has a lot to say about the "poor electrical work in Thailand" but all of them have overlooked the fact that it is THEIR responsibility to ensure that THEIR house or THEIR premises are safe. Not to mention that all the posters here seem to be very knowledgeable when it come to (after the fact) electrics - yet NOT ONE has mentioned the one inexpensive little device that could have saved ALL of those lives. It's called an Earth Leakage Relay - or a Residual Current Device. Look it up - and if you don't have one installed, then install one immediately. Before we have to type in yet another RIP!

Everyone here has a lot to say about the "poor electrical work in Thailand" but all of them have overlooked the fact that it is THEIR responsibility to ensure that THEIR house or THEIR premises are safe. Not to mention that all the posters here seem to be very knowledgeable when it come to (after the fact) electrics - yet NOT ONE has mentioned the one inexpensive little device that could have saved ALL of those lives. It's called an Earth Leakage Relay - or a Residual Current Device. Look it up - and if you don't have one installed, then install one immediately. Before we have to type in yet another RIP!

Some, the deceased, may not have had a clue about electrics. The fitters of the stuff should have, BUT they don't.

Perhaps so, but it's apparently "common knowledge" how "useless and incompetent Thai electricians are" - so everyone should already be forewarned! Nevertheless, as of now, anyone who reads this lot doesn't have an excuse. Get an ELR fitted IMMEDIATELY!

Hi Guys,

it's called ELCB Earth- Leakage-Circuit-Breaker well-known in Thailand as Safety Cut which is quite expensive.

but there a cheaper Brands on the Market.

how high is the value of human life?? so it pays to have one installed

RIP

[DavoTheGun]

The ELS Earth Leakage Switch, Or ELSCB as some call it must have a good earth connection to be really effective, this is not always possible with lots of Thai properties unless you go out of the normal and create one. be aware of this.

[Jayman]

You have to set it to direct for it to be disabled. Just like, if you flip you light switch off the lights no longer work. Now granted this si a safety device and should always be on but for trouble shooting or as stated, when you leave for an extended period you can disable it so that it doesn't trip while you are gone with no one home to reset it.

Edited October 4, 2012 by sbk
deleted quoted post removed

[DavoTheGun]

Any Safety device should not be able to be disabled, otherwise it is NOT a safety device, get with it you people and so called experts!

[Jayman]

Any Safety device should not be able to be disabled, otherwise it is NOT a safety device, get with it you people and so called experts!

Many cars come with airbags that have a disable switch. Are they NOT a safety device to? With many things in this world, safety comes from knowledge of how to use a device properly for your given situation.

[sbk]

One inflammatory trollish post deleted. Please do not repost that kind of thing, thanks

[jambodave]

My next door neighbour had their electric cut off,this was done by simply removing the cables from the meter outside.The cables were still live,and left within reach of both children and adults,I know they were still live because he simply reconnected them.

[sirchai]

Sad story.

I remember reading a report of a woman who died in her shower and the woman who was electrocuted in the 7-11 on Walking Street. Russian roulette with electricity in Thailand.

Russian Roulette sounds very suitable. We painted the house we live in, switched power off. When I wanted to change a lamp in the bathroom, the wire was still hot.

Thai electricians do not let the "hot" wire run over the switch, I thought when my wife and I felt the power of 230 volts running through our bodies.--

[Rimmer]

I always remember the mnemonic 'SIDE' That was drummed into us when I was under training in the RAF

Switch off

Isolate

Dump

Earth

[Basil B]

Sad story, RIP.

There must have been some form of earth return in this instance to make the circuit, either at the supply step down transformer (Sub station) or a second fault at another property feed off the same step down transformer, and therefore a RCD in circuit may well have saved him.

The RCD that seme to be used in Thailand are adjustable and single circuit to cover everything, and the bigger the house/shop/apartment is the more equipment is used, some equipment does have natural leakage and therefore the need to whack up the settings to prevent false tripping.

Here in the UK RCD devices are smaller and fixed at 30mA and designed to protect a single circuit, so you could have one for most circuits IE. sockets on one (or even better split the sockets up it to two or more circuits), with other devices such as air con, water heaters, shower, and other circuits etc each with their own RCD.

Another point to note is the importance of double pole isolation, when working on electrics, pulling the plug out on portable appliances or switching of at a double pole switch, basically if you can not identify a double pole switch you should leave it to the experts.

Edit in:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

A residual-current device (RCD), or residual-current circuit breaker (RCCB), is an electrical wiring device that disconnects a circuit whenever it detects that the electric current is not balanced between the energized conductor and the return neutral conductor. Such an imbalance may indicate current leakage through the body of a person who is grounded and accidentally touching the energized part of the circuit. A lethal shock can result from these conditions. RCCBs are designed to disconnect quickly enough to prevent injury caused by such shocks. They are not intended to provide protection against overcurrent (overload) or short-circuit conditions.

In the United States and Canada, a residual-current device is most commonly known as a ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI), ground fault interrupter (GFI) or an appliance leakage current interrupter (ALCI). In Australia they are sometimes known as "safety switches" or simply "RCD" and in the United Kingdom, along with circuit breakers, they can be referred to as "trips" or "trip switches".

A residual-current circuit breaker with overload protection (RCBO) combines the functions of overcurrent protection and leakage detection. An earth leakage circuit breaker (ELCB) may be a residual-current device, although an older type of voltage-operated earth leakage circuit breaker exists.

Residual-current device is a generic term covering both RCCBs and RCBOs.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Basil B

[affen02]

Sad story, my deepest sympathy to family and friends.

[David006]

A lesson for all reading here. Switch OFF the main breaker before doing ANY electrical stuff here, no matter how small or big the appliance.

RIP brother. Trans

gotta agree..won't even change a light bulb without throwing the breaker.....I wired our house ..lol.....and yes we have GFIs......saw a guy yesterday up a pole outside a new restaurant barefoot.....presumably borrowing a few volts.....gross stupidity.

There is a utility pole with a disconnected meter in our local market ,the wires have a bit of folded tape on the ends at head height....if the PEA don't care why would a local sparky...sad.