If England Are Not Inferior, Why Have We Failed?

[StevieH]

cracking bit of nostalgia here. world soccer magazine article on england's failure to qualify for the 1984 european championships. sound familiar?

IF ENGLAND ARE NOT INFERIOR, WHY HAVE WE FAILED?

by Paul Parish

http://inbedwithmaradona.com/retro/2012/10/2/if-england-are-not-inferior-why-have-we-failed.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

By now we should be accustomed to English failure. By now we should have learned the lessons from a decade of disappointment. Alas, nothing changes.

It is no easier to forgive England's disaster in the European Championships this year than it was back in 1974, for example, after the failure to reach the World Cup Finals.

Even more perplexing is that so little has been done to revive a nation's team which was once feared around the globe.

Now, it seems, fear is derived only from the moronic slobs who purport to be English soccer supporters. At least the French will be spared the violence and mayhem suffered in little Luxembourg the night England finally knew their European Championship fate. A million words have spilled from a thousand vitriolic pens since that day. So perhaps it is time to be a little more rational about England's continued lack of achievement on the international stage.

Or is it?

I would like to believe that finally the English footballer and the English coaches would be prepared to accept that at the moment, under the present system, we are not good enough. The record books cannot all be wrong.

But I paled just a little when reading Bobby Robson's own words, exclusively in the Sunday Mirror. Wrote the England manager:

"I'm still bitterly disappointed about missing out in Europe. I don't intend us to miss out in the World Cup Finals because, for all this week's disappointment, I know that I have a team and a squad which is not really inferior to any other in Europe."

Then why, I ask, are England not going to France next summer?

It is easy to cite Italy's total failure since winning the World Cup. Or single out West Germany's defeat at the hands of Northern Ireland. They are examples of other great nations finding life difficult. But discovering fault with your neighbour's paintwork doesn't stop the paint peeling off your own windowsills. Unless, of course, you apply the right treatment.

Now Robson might just be a cock-eyed optimist. He might be attempting to lift the morale of a nation which had expected something better from its footballers. He is probably defending his men from the flak, like any good commander defeated in battle.

Or he might just believe it.

Only twice in the last 10 years have England qualified for any tournament of consequence. That was the 1980 European Championship where England cantered through the qualifying group ... and a little soccer nation called Denmark finished last. Was that really the same country that this time inflicted a humiliating defeat at Wembley-a victory which opened the door for their Championship qualification?

They've come a long way in four years from being no-hopers to a side built up as Europe's new super-power. But more of that later.

Then England qualified for the 1982 World Cup Finals. Admittedly FIFA helped by enlarging the final tournament to 24 nations and giving the opportunity to two sides from each of the European qualifying groups. England finished second, behind Hungary, by courtesy of the inexplicable Rumanian collapse as much as our own efforts.

Those two occasions apart it's been one calamity after another. It is traced not so much to England's away record but to an inability to perform their best at Wembley.

For example:

World Cup 1974: The 1-1 Wembley draw with Poland lives forever in the mind, but what about a 1-1 draw with Wales earlier in the same qualifying group?

European Championship 1976: Czechoslovakia edged England out this time. England beat them at Wembley and lost in Czechoslovakia. There was also a frustrating evening at Wembley in a goalless match with Portugal.

World Cup 1978: Italy this time sneaked home on goal difference. Remember those dizzy scenes at Wembley when England beat Italy soon after Ron Greenwood had taken over as manager. But England had lost in Italy earlier and significantly had also struggled to beat Finland 2-1 at Wembley. The Italians had beaten the Finns 6-1 at home-and that was ultimately the difference between qualification or not.

European Championship 1984: It was a relatively simple group. England drew in Denmark 2-2. Later, however, came the horror of that home defeat and just as important an abysmal 0-0 draw with Greece. In the end not even Denmark's failure in Hungary could save England.

That match, however, did partially explode the myth created about the Danes. Don't get me wrong, they are a good side; they have improved beyond all recognition in four years, but under no circumstances are they the supermen everyone was warned about before their victory at Wembley.

England's lack of consistency in key home matches was also highlighted by Robson in his article for the Sunday Mirror:

"It's the stadium where English soccer internationals have always been played and should always be played,"he says. "The problem with the place is that it acts as an inspiration to every side who comes to London. Everyone - Brazil, West Germany, Argentina, Denmark, Scotland - wants to win at Wembley.

"It acts as a motivation to every foreigner who knows he might only play there once in his life, so wants to play for life that night." It has been called the Wembley jinx but could it, alternatively, be a signal that opponents come to Wembley with a belief that they can at least hold England.”

Performances against the packed defences employed by some of the lesser European nations point to the fact that technically England still lag behind in the world game.

A strong league competition is but a league of pace and power. A league where that dreadful word commitment seems to be more important than skill. Surely any player who represents his league side, let alone an international side, is committed to his side. Or does commitment mean that players are being told that to chase and work is of paramount importance?

It may seem that I have been scathing towards Bobby Robson. Like a million other punters I have not always agreed with his selections but he is doing the job as well as anyone can under the present difficult circumstances.

No man can be expected to build a successful side given the amount of time Robson has with his players. The system in England is geared to domestic competition and not the international game. It is the domestic game that pays the bills and puts the jam on the bread. It has become the priority.

The record of British clubs in Europe during the last decade is at complete odds with the performances of the national side. At club level, where coaches can work with their players every day of the week, England have a fine record.

Robson and his predecessors, Sir Alf Ramsey, Don Revie and Ron Greenwood, were not given the sort of opportunity. There is a reluctance, or that's how it looks, from some clubs to release players for international duty. The club before country argument has been going on for years.

There have been two instances in recent years where league matches have been postponed on the weekends before international fixtures. It may be coincidence that on both occasions England have won the resultant fixture.

At least it is a start. At least it does give Bobby Robson a chance to work and get to know his players.

And what of the players? How far should Robson now go in his quest to find a side which will not only qualify for the 1986 World Cup but also acquit themselves well in Mexico?

The backbone of the side must be the developing midfield combination of Bryan Robson and Glenn Hoddle. Robson's absence from the key match with Denmark was an important factor. It was a match which cried out for his inspirational qualities as a captain as much as a player.

Hoddle, too, did not play against Denmark. At the time manager Robson felt that Hoddle had not sufficiently recovered from injury to play a part in such an important game. Subsequently Hoddle has played against both Hungary and Luxembourg and could now face the extended run in the international side his supporters have long requested.

Now that England has a free period between European and World Championships the time is ripe to introduce other new faces. The summer tour of 1984, for example, will become a key factor as Bobby Robson evaluates the talent at his disposal.

Goalkeepers Nigel Spink and Gary Bailey must be ready to assume the mantle of Peter Shilton - even though Shilton, himself, seems to be performing better than ever.

At full back, Manchester United's Mike Duxbury could be the logical successor to long serving Phil Neal. At the heart of the defence Luton's Paul Elliott might by the young man to challenge the Terry Butcher/Alvin Martin partnership.

Luton may also provide two young men to boost England's attack with Paul Walsh and Brian Stein both impressive in this season's under-21 squad.

There are others. But the secret will be for Robson to extract the club form of his players at international level. Too often that does not happen, but by putting greater emphasis on the national side and giving Robson more chance to work with his players it can be done.

Robson commented after the European disappointments: "As one door closes so another opens." Experience, one hopes, will ensure that this door will not be slammed in England's faces.

This article was originally published in the January 1984 edition of World Soccer magazine, although, to be honest, it could have been knocked out at any point in the last forty years. Plus ça change...

[rott]

An excuse for some irrelevant anti-England sneering from Stevie(just because I was born in England doesn't mean I'm English)H.

[smokie36]

Good read that. Most enjoyable!!

[carmine]

An excuse for some irrelevant anti-England sneering from Stevie(just because I was born in England doesn't mean I'm English)H.

Stevie's actually 49% English.

But i do agree, apart from offering Smokes a little one liner it really is treading over an already well trodden path. That is, unless we're the first and only nation in history to play crap and not qualify, which to be fair the welsh and the jocks have seemlessly turned into an art form.

Edited October 4, 2012 by carmine

[StevieH]

An excuse for some irrelevant anti-England sneering from Stevie(just because I was born in England doesn't mean I'm English)H.

not in the slightest. just thought it was interesting to read a report which cited talents like robson and hoddle and which didn't mention mega-money salaries like they do today. still, whatever floats your boat soft lad.

[smokie36]

Time for one of my musical interludes....

[smokie36]

An excuse for some irrelevant anti-England sneering from Stevie(just because I was born in England doesn't mean I'm English)H.

Stevie's actually 49% English.

But i do agree, apart from offering Smokes a little one liner it really is treading over an already well trodden path. That is, unless we're the first and only nation in history to play crap and not qualify, which to be fair the welsh and the jocks have seemlessly turned into an art form.

Are we talking '78 or '84 carms?

[sumrit]

I remember talking to a friend a few years ago about how good/bad the England team was and saying that, going through the teams player for player, there wasn't one England player that could improve Man U's team at that time, and that personally I didn't think England were as good as any of the top Premiership teams. Now I think we're weaker at left back so I'd have to take either Cole (although I don't like him)or Baines and we're still short in midfield so I'd probably choose Gerard. At the moment I'd probably have to pick Hat as well, although long term I'm not so sure. Other than that I still don't think England are as good.

Who from the current England team do you honestly think would improve your club side, whether you actually like the player or not?

[StevieH]

Stevie's actually 49% English.

But i do agree, apart from offering Smokes a little one liner it really is treading over an already well trodden path. That is, unless we're the first and only nation in history to play crap and not qualify, which to be fair the welsh and the jocks have seemlessly turned into an art form.

i remember 1994 being a really strange world cup. i was living in france and so watching a world cup where both france and england weren't in it was really odd.

[carmine]

An excuse for some irrelevant anti-England sneering from Stevie(just because I was born in England doesn't mean I'm English)H.

Stevie's actually 49% English.

But i do agree, apart from offering Smokes a little one liner it really is treading over an already well trodden path. That is, unless we're the first and only nation in history to play crap and not qualify, which to be fair the welsh and the jocks have seemlessly turned into an art form.

Are we talking '78 or '84 carms?

Are you talking the years AD or BC?

[smokie36]

An excuse for some irrelevant anti-England sneering from Stevie(just because I was born in England doesn't mean I'm English)H.

Stevie's actually 49% English.

But i do agree, apart from offering Smokes a little one liner it really is treading over an already well trodden path. That is, unless we're the first and only nation in history to play crap and not qualify, which to be fair the welsh and the jocks have seemlessly turned into an art form.

Are we talking '78 or '84 carms?

Are you talking the years AD or BC?

Perhaps '33 '45 or '78...?

[mauGR1]

I have a good friend who is a Liverpool fan ( he is a good boy..)

Once i asked him why England as a national team is performing so poorly.

His explaination was that the rivalry among English Clubs is so strong, that players from different Clubs don't even talk to each other...

So the solution it's simple, just line up the worst team in the Premier League ( the best players are already rich, thus not motvated ) and the results will be better

[StevieH]

His explaination was that the rivalry among English Clubs is so strong, that players from different Clubs don't even talk to each other...

i don't think that's particularly true. i know that gerrard for example gets on really well with rooney, they're big mates.

i could understand nobody talking to that horrible bellend john terry but then he's just one player.

[carmine]

His explaination was that the rivalry among English Clubs is so strong, that players from different Clubs don't even talk to each other...

i don't think that's particularly true. i know that gerrard for example gets on really well with rooney, they're big mates.

i could understand nobody talking to that horrible bellend john terry but then he's just one player.

i agree with you and i'll go a step further. The general public tend to forget how many players in the top clubs are actually English. the tend to forget how many english players play in the highest level of club football, the CL. the answer is hardly any and there you have it. We just don't have the quality.

Even if we did the inmcumbant coach would probably not play them rather relying on the experience of the failed old guard.

This is why carmine prefers club football.

[StevieH]

His explaination was that the rivalry among English Clubs is so strong, that players from different Clubs don't even talk to each other...

i don't think that's particularly true. i know that gerrard for example gets on really well with rooney, they're big mates.

i could understand nobody talking to that horrible bellend john terry but then he's just one player.

i agree with you and i'll go a step further. The general public tend to forget how many players in the top clubs are actually English. the tend to forget how many english players play in the highest level of club football, the CL. the answer is hardly any and there you have it. We just don't have the quality.

Even if we did the inmcumbant coach would probably not play them rather relying on the experience of the failed old guard.

This is why carmine prefers club football.

it's a vicious circle. clubs want to stay in the champions league so they invest in the best players (almost always foreign) to get them and keep them in the champions league and those players get better for playing at that level.

[carmine]

His explaination was that the rivalry among English Clubs is so strong, that players from different Clubs don't even talk to each other...

i don't think that's particularly true. i know that gerrard for example gets on really well with rooney, they're big mates.

i could understand nobody talking to that horrible bellend john terry but then he's just one player.

i agree with you and i'll go a step further. The general public tend to forget how many players in the top clubs are actually English. the tend to forget how many english players play in the highest level of club football, the CL. the answer is hardly any and there you have it. We just don't have the quality.

Even if we did the inmcumbant coach would probably not play them rather relying on the experience of the failed old guard.

This is why carmine prefers club football.

it's a vicious circle. clubs want to stay in the champions league so they invest in the best players (almost always foreign) to get them and keep them in the champions league and those players get better for playing at that level.

True and probably the only way round this would be to limit foreign players to three per club. Premier league would be a much more open league for it.

Similar to when Capello had Gullit, Van Basten ans Rijkaard at Milan. Not a bad trio.

[StevieH]

True and probably the only way round this would be to limit foreign players to three per club. Premier league would be a much more open league for it.

Similar to when Capello had Gullit, Van Basten ans Rijkaard at Milan. Not a bad trio.

england had this model not that long ago though. united used to have to leave out one of non-domestic schmeichel, cantona, keane and kanchelskis (i think, stand to be corrected by a glam) in european matches. milan also had the same problem in leaving out someone like savicevic or later jean-pierre papin. didn't really seem to make that much difference to the england national side at the time.

[mrbojangles]

True and probably the only way round this would be to limit foreign players to three per club. Premier league would be a much more open league for it.

I prefer to watch the best talent football has to offer and that is what has made the Prem so successful world-wide.

It could be done somewhat with non-Eu foreign players but to apply it to EU players would open up an almighty can of worms in employment laws. However, even that barrier could be removed if there is a referendum and the UK opt out of Europe.

[rijit]

england qualfied for the last championship with flying colors , and ranked in the top 6? in the world and were currently failing HMMMMMMMMMMM!!! The only thing we cant seem to do is repeat our qualifying form in a tournament. Admittedly a huge ish issue but IMO, not insurmountable.

[carmine]

england qualfied for the last championship with flying colors , and ranked in the top 6? in the world and were currently failing HMMMMMMMMMMM!!! The only thing we cant seem to do is repeat our qualifying form in a tournament. Admittedly a huge ish issue but IMO, not insurmountable.

The quality of the opposition is far better in the tournaments than it is in qualifying. Its not down to our form we don't do as well in tournos its simply down to ability

[alfieconn]

People come up with all these weird and wonderful theories why we don’t do any good as a national team, all of which is a load of hogwash !!!!!

It’s simple, English people are not born with enough natural ability, Brazilians are born with it, some of the latin countries are born with it.

You can give all the coaching in the world to kids but if you don’t have enough natural ability your not going to get anywhere.

People blame too many foreigners in the game and say this is stopping English players coming through :

1. There wasn’t any foreigners in the game until recent years so what was the excuse for only winning 1 major honour between 1950 and 1990 ?

2. Young players that are good enough will still come though.

3. Young players will improve by playing with world class players so all the foreigners in our game are benefiting our game not detrimental to our game.

4. So making a limit on foreigners in our game will just mean more Championship players playing in the Premiership and therefore diluting the quality.

Edited October 6, 2012 by alfieconn

[carmine]

If all the tremendous young talent that we have can be nutured , have their natural ability honed by the best in the business, Roy Hodgson and Stuart Pearce then english football is in great hands.

Why complicate anything. Play 4-4-2, get into 'em and f8cking run around alot

You see, we are totally and utterly f*cked and i haven't even mentioned the all knowing, all seeing wise old FA. The only thing they are capable of is deciding which designer of suit and girlie manbag are players take to the tournament.

[smokie36]

You're like a cool breeze on midsummers day Carms.

I feel like breaking into the chorus of Land of Hope and Glory...

[carmine]

You're like a cool breeze on midsummers day Carms.

I feel like breaking into the chorus of Land of Hope and Glory...

Try to be less predictable smokes.

What gets on my tits is that most England fans are very fair and sporting in their attitude and opinion of the FA and the national side but are deliberately misinterpreted and slated by by wannabe's with a f8cking great chip on their shoulder. just like the behavioue of our tralling fans has been for the most part exemplary in recent years and yet we are still demonised for disgressions that are almost ancient history.

Take for example the disgusting behaviour of the scots at wembley which no doubt, because it wasn't an englisg act was put down to over exuberance.

The whole hypocrasy really winds me up.

[smokie36]

You're like a cool breeze on midsummers day Carms.

I feel like breaking into the chorus of Land of Hope and Glory...

Try to be less predictable smokes.

What gets on my tits is that most England fans are very fair and sporting in their attitude and opinion of the FA and the national side but are deliberately misinterpreted and slated by by wannabe's with a f8cking great chip on their shoulder. just like the behavioue of our tralling fans has been for the most part exemplary in recent years and yet we are still demonised for disgressions that are almost ancient history.

Take for example the disgusting behaviour of the scots at wembley which no doubt, because it wasn't an englisg act was put down to over exuberance.

The whole hypocrasy really winds me up.

Scots at Wembley? Do you mean the last time we played carms?....when we won 1-0 and chipped your woodwork several times to boot!

[carmine]

You're like a cool breeze on midsummers day Carms.

I feel like breaking into the chorus of Land of Hope and Glory...

Try to be less predictable smokes.

What gets on my tits is that most England fans are very fair and sporting in their attitude and opinion of the FA and the national side but are deliberately misinterpreted and slated by by wannabe's with a f8cking great chip on their shoulder. just like the behavioue of our tralling fans has been for the most part exemplary in recent years and yet we are still demonised for disgressions that are almost ancient history.

Take for example the disgusting behaviour of the scots at wembley which no doubt, because it wasn't an englisg act was put down to over exuberance.

The whole hypocrasy really winds me up.

Scots at Wembley? Do you mean the last time we played carms?....when we won 1-0 and chipped your woodwork several times to boot!

No i am talking about the worst case of neanderthal behaviour ever seen to my knoeledge staring off with ripping dowm the goalposts, ripping up the turf and endiong up with pissing over half of london. Honestly, the hypocrasy is just breathtaking

[smokie36]

Ahhh yes. No comment.

[rijit]

england qualfied for the last championship with flying colors , and ranked in the top 6? in the world and were currently failing HMMMMMMMMMMM!!! The only thing we cant seem to do is repeat our qualifying form in a tournament. Admittedly a huge ish issue but IMO, not insurmountable.

The quality of the opposition is far better in the tournaments than it is in qualifying. Its not down to our form we don't do as well in tournos its simply down to ability

Exactly what i'm saying carmine, we dont do well in tornamounts, why? and why do certain teams ALWAYS, almost irrespective of players ALWAYS outperform us, granted occasionally we come up against quality opposition, but generally our players man for man are as good as most if not better.IMO We are doing something fundamentally wrong in our approach and preparation for these big torrnamounts, highlighted by capellos recent ish debacle, train the fuc_kin nuts of an already over played squad. We really need to be lookin at what and how the likes of germany, italy, and perennial performers go about thing's, but as a rule of thumb we're and our fa reflect this, far 2 reactionary, just look at the reaction hoddle got when he brought irelene whats her face in!!! Italy had been using similar skill sets for decade's. Whilst i agree the opposition are better our prem players face the best week in week out, no reason why collectively we cant=use that experience and b a force, it's down to how we put arrange the collective once we have them 2 gether. Over to you Woy!!!

[Mooner]

The reason is quite simple. We are not good enough! Everyone tries to make a Hollywood pass, our movement and technical ability are not good enough.

A artical in a English paper sumed it up for me. Oxlaide Chamberlain was told by a coach a few years ago that they were probably going to let him go next season. He said " You are technically our best player but your too small".

Coaches are looking for the wrong qualities in players.

[StevieH]

People come up with all these weird and wonderful theories why we don’t do any good as a national team, all of which is a load of hogwash !!!!!

It’s simple, English people are not born with enough natural ability, Brazilians are born with it, some of the latin countries are born with it.

You can give all the coaching in the world to kids but if you don’t have enough natural ability your not going to get anywhere.

with respect alfie, that's the biggest load of horse elbows i've read in some time. what is 'it' and how are you born with it baed on where you're born? you saying george best didn't have natural ability? how about zinedine zidane? johan cryuff? john barnes? zlatan ibrahimovic? there are plenty of kids born in brazil who are crap at football.

it's about the coaching the talented kids are given. the systems they're taught, the ways of playing, the freedom to express themselves. you can't generalise about it being solely based on where a kid is born.