Kidnapping Charge Of Thai Child From Father Farang, When ?

[Danielsiam]

We read it fews times ..but it's confused..

"GENERAL INFORMATION: Parental Kidnapping is not a crime in Thailand and Thai authorities will not issue a warrant or become involved should one parent take a child without the other parent's authorization"

Concrete case :

1. Farang father take child Thai/Farang born in Thai outside Thailand without consent of mother and father are not legitimitazed, so Thai Autorithies will send a Warrant into all the world by Interpol for kidnapping ?

2. Farang father take child Thai/Farang born in Thai, outside Thailand without consent of mother and father but the father are legitimitazed (without custody), so Thai Autorithies will send a Warrant into all the world by Interpol ?

3. Farang father take child Thai/Farang born in Thai, outside Thailand without consent of mother and father but the father are legitimitazed (with 50:50 custody), so Thai Autorithies will send a Warrant into all the world by Interpol ?

4. Farang & Thai woman and they child are going to European Union countries; but the father are not legitimitazed, the father don't want the child back to Thailand against the mother she wanna back to Thailand. Kidnapping charge can apply also ?

Start which level the Thai Autorities autorities judge it's a kidnapping and sending a warrant ? Or it's a big deal between Hague Convention & pure kidnapping, it's two different process..

[Mario2008]

1 and 4. As far as the law is concerend the father is not the father in a legal sence and has no claim to the child. He would indeed be kidnapping the child and an (international) arrest warrent and criminal prosecution is possible.

2 and 3, the father has parental rights. It would probably require court action first, in esence a judge orders the child to be returned, before charges can be brought. At the least it can turn into a legal battle over who should be prime caretaker and if the father takes the law in his own hands, it will not be looked upon favourably in the eyes of a judge.

Depending on the circumstances, the end can be that one is charged with kidnapping and/or that the child will be returned to the mother. Taking the matter in ones own hands is rarely the best approach.

[nextmove]

Mario .

Regarding points 2 and 3 what action is exactly taken if there is no such thing as kidnapping under Thai law and the authorities quote ''will not issue a warrant or become involved ''.

From what you have said it would appear that despite what is written in the law the authorities DO indeed get involved.

But since there is no law against taking a child without the other parents permission then what do they charge you with?

Unfortunately confusion reigns yet again for me regarding the Thai law on this !

Many thanks.

[Mario2008]

As I said, it would probably require court action first and a court order to hand the child over in the care of the other spouse, or not to leave the country with the child. Then there is a court decision and one would be in defiance of the court order and hold possession of the child illegally. Then you can be charged and the child can be brought back under the treaty against parental abduction, to which Thailand is a member.

As to the law, currently Thai immigration checks if a child has permisison from both parents to leave the country. There is even a parental consent form to take a child out of the country. So there might be a change in the law. There is certainly a change in policy.

[nextmove]

Thank you Mario,

But as an unmarried father assuming I get a Thai court to legitimise my daughter and her mother ends up with a lengthy prison term, I can then leave the country with my daughter and I will not be breaking any law ?

I of course realise it would be better to get permission from the mother but if this is not forthcoming for any reason and the mother has not taken any court action,which would probably be quite difficult from within a prison, then I have committed no offence? Even if she did take court action it would be difficult to imagine a Thai Court not allowing me to take our daughter to the UK so I could provide for her, I presume they want what is best for the child and keeping a foreign father in Thailand but who has no right to work is hardly a desirable situation and certainly would not consitute what was best.

And if my daughter then continues to live with me in the UK for a number of years while her mother serves out her sentence, what can I be charged with if anything on her mothers release? I presume the amount of time our daughter had been brought up alone by me would count for something with the Thai authorities. I certainly think it would put me in good stead with the UK authorities should any requests come from Thailand.

Regarding:-

''As to the law, currently Thai immigration checks if a child has permisison from both parents to leave the country. There is even a parental consent form to take a child out of the country. So there might be a change in the law. There is certainly a change in policy''

Is there actually a standard official consent form that must be used now. When I left Thailand in April I had a signed DIY letter of consent from the mother but it was not required. Thai immigration did not check that permission had been given in my case,they just asked my daughter to confirm I was her father.

Have the rules been tightened still further since April?

Thanks once again.

[Livinginexile]

Thank you Mario,

But as an unmarried father assuming I get a Thai court to legitimise my daughter and her mother ends up with a lengthy prison term, I can then leave the country with my daughter and I will not be breaking any law ?

I of course realise it would be better to get permission from the mother but if this is not forthcoming for any reason and the mother has not taken any court action,which would probably be quite difficult from within a prison, then I have committed no offence? Even if she did take court action it would be difficult to imagine a Thai Court not allowing me to take our daughter to the UK so I could provide for her, I presume they want what is best for the child and keeping a foreign father in Thailand but who has no right to work is hardly a desirable situation and certainly would not consitute what was best.

And if my daughter then continues to live with me in the UK for a number of years while her mother serves out her sentence, what can I be charged with if anything on her mothers release? I presume the amount of time our daughter had been brought up alone by me would count for something with the Thai authorities. I certainly think it would put me in good stead with the UK authorities should any requests come from Thailand.

Regarding:-

''As to the law, currently Thai immigration checks if a child has permisison from both parents to leave the country. There is even a parental consent form to take a child out of the country. So there might be a change in the law. There is certainly a change in policy''

Is there actually a standard official consent form that must be used now. When I left Thailand in April I had a signed DIY letter of consent from the mother but it was not required. Thai immigration did not check that permission had been given in my case,they just asked my daughter to confirm I was her father.

Have the rules been tightened still further since April?

Thanks once again.

I have travelled twice out of Thailand with my Son and was not asked for any consent form.

The last time was August this year.

Are you sure about this Mario?

[Mario2008]

I have travelled twice out of Thailand with my Son and was not asked for any consent form.

The last time was August this year.

Are you sure about this Mario?

It is not often checked, but checks are ocassionally made and have been reported on the forum.

However, checks are mainly made if the adult doesn't have the same last name as the child. (child trafficking is a top priority for immigration and this is an indicator resulting in attention).

[Mario2008]

Thank you Mario,

But as an unmarried father assuming I get a Thai court to legitimise my daughter and her mother ends up with a lengthy prison term, I can then leave the country with my daughter and I will not be breaking any law ?

I of course realise it would be better to get permission from the mother but if this is not forthcoming for any reason and the mother has not taken any court action,which would probably be quite difficult from within a prison, then I have committed no offence? Even if she did take court action it would be difficult to imagine a Thai Court not allowing me to take our daughter to the UK so I could provide for her, I presume they want what is best for the child and keeping a foreign father in Thailand but who has no right to work is hardly a desirable situation and certainly would not consitute what was best.

And if my daughter then continues to live with me in the UK for a number of years while her mother serves out her sentence, what can I be charged with if anything on her mothers release? I presume the amount of time our daughter had been brought up alone by me would count for something with the Thai authorities. I certainly think it would put me in good stead with the UK authorities should any requests come from Thailand.

Regarding:-

''As to the law, currently Thai immigration checks if a child has permisison from both parents to leave the country. There is even a parental consent form to take a child out of the country. So there might be a change in the law. There is certainly a change in policy''

Is there actually a standard official consent form that must be used now. When I left Thailand in April I had a signed DIY letter of consent from the mother but it was not required. Thai immigration did not check that permission had been given in my case,they just asked my daughter to confirm I was her father.

Have the rules been tightened still further since April?

Thanks once again.

Yes, there is a form availeble at the amphur. Someone last week posted it, and I have heard of it before. See here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/588571-whats-thai-official-form-mean-exactly/

I suspect, normally a handwritten note will be fine. (together with signed copy of ID-card)

Provided the mother doesn't ask the court to order the child to remain in Thailand, and a court approves this request, you can leave.

What happens when the mother is released is something else and will also depend on the lenght of the prison term (and the reason for the prison term). A judge, in Thailnd and the UK, will take that in consideration when there comes a requiest from the mother for access to the child.

The reason for the prison term whill be a factor in deciding if the mother is a danger to the child or not and the longer the child has already been living with you the less it will be in the intrest of the child to be retuned to the mother. A judge will then give only visitation rights, if living in the UK she will need to go to the UK for that.

[nextmove]

Thanks Mario, much appreciated.