Democrats: Thaksin Was Behind Men In Black

[MAJIC]

Seh Daeng was widely believed to the the MIB's leader. His assassination was probably the work of a rogue MIB or someone similarly in touch with the Reds and Thaksin' money machine, directly or indirectly. Reason; Sae Dang was the ONLY MIB who could have been hauled before a tribunal and charged and/or questioned right after the riots. Thus far, there have been no MIB suspects who have come out and admitted their roles. There has been at least one v. strong suspect, who matched a facial photo perfectly, but this is Thailand, and if the ruling party doesn't want something/someone investigated, they can gum up the works. That's the scenario here. The PT party is hook line and sinker involved with the riots and deaths in Bangkok (and some provinces) of Spring 2010, so it's to their advantage to foot drag and obfuscate as much as possible.

He was a general....it is my understanding no charges can be filed against a general.....so who is likely to eradicate a rogue general who cannot be charged after the event? Hint..read the post above!

The same one who organised and paid for the whole 2010 Bloody uprising. Hint.. he's not resident in Thailand!

[yoshiwara]

The reason why this issue is coming up now? Ah! There's the rub. Observe now what is going on in the background.

After Thaksin failed miserably with his last attempt to return back to Thailand in triumph he is now holding court with PT leaders and wannabes waving the stinky stick of a reshuffle.

But this time, since Thaksin has never really trusted PT leaders and knows that they would be more than happy if he stayed away, wants to put in some hard core red leaders of the calibre of Jatuporn and his ilk. He needs to do something to avoid becoming yesterday's man. So what has all of this got to do with the issue of the thread?

The issue is that the hard core leaders had operational and financial links with the MIB and the Democrats are threatening in effect that if Thaksin puts those with extremely dirty hands into the cabinet then PT may find itself disbanded once again.

[TruthEyes]

The key point of all this for me is that for all the army personnel, snipers, support troops , observer teams etc, no MIB were captured or tried I believe.

I find that odd .

[coma]

Seh Daeng got whacked by Thai Army snipers unders orders by the government for desertion and mutiny.

[jaidam]

The key point of all this for me is that for all the army personnel, snipers, support troops , observer teams etc, no MIB were captured or tried I believe.

I find that odd .

There is a huge problem with the reds continual claim that the "men in black" were belonging to/affiliated with the democrat government.

On the one hand we have the reds telling us how their voters are politically aware and making intelligent votes, yet on the other hand we have this continual train of thought that the reds are so absolutely stump stupid that they welcome heavily armed black dressed government agents into their fold. So, which is it. Politically aware and intelligent, or stump stupid and blind?

[maidu]

The four questions make a lot of sense to me, except for number 3. I believe he probably was killed by a govt. sniper, and rightfully so. He was dangerous, and advocating violence in a very reckless manner. I don't believe he was a "sacrificial lamb", but I do believe he was a very dangerous loose cannon who had to be killed for the safety of everybody.

Seh Daeng got whacked by Thai Army snipers unders orders by the government for desertion and mutiny.

a week before the Red occupation started, Sae Dang was confronted by a patrol of Thai army, in southern Thailand. They had orders to arrest him (perhaps suspecting his leadership role (for militants) in upcoming in the upcoming Bkk demonstration). He had already been a bad boy prior to that, but tolerated by other Army brass. It's tempting and believable to think an Army sniper whacked him. Yet he was more of a liability for Thaksin and Red militants than for the government of the time. Yet, the army doesn't often think in a reasonable manner, so they may have whacked the one man who could have spilled the beans on the MIB and Thaksin's involvement - had he lived to testify. With the puzzle pieces arranged on the table, it looks more likely that he was whacked by Reds, because he knew too much.

The key point of all this for me is that for all the army personnel, snipers, support troops , observer teams etc, no MIB were captured or tried I believe. I find that odd .

Thais are adept at fading away. Most times, when we hear of a public bus driver who wrecks a bus full of passengers - the driver is last seen running out in to a rice paddy, never to be heard of again. Another angle: a local Thai woman owed me money. Last I heard, she had gone to another province and got a sex change. Even getting name changes are easy here, and it's used to avoid credit card payments. On a top gov't level, when a former Minister is accused of malfeasance or corruption while in office, all he/she has to say is: "I'm not head of that office any more, how can you lay charges about that?" That's the Thai way.

[Thai at Heart]

I thought they had arrested one or two of these guys anyway? At the very least, didn't one of them have his picture caught very clearly by a photographer?

The army must know exactly who they are, for whatever reason, they don't want to let any cats out of the bag about how divided an organisation they are.

[bendejo]

I recall a red being interviewed on TV back when they were camped out on the streets, it was either Al Jazeera or BBC. The red kept saying non-violent, the protest was non-violent, the movement was non-violent. The interviewer asked about the armed men, the red said that was to protect the people in case the government attacked. Umm, back to Mahatma Ghandi 101.

This whole thing reminds me of the movie Dirty Harry. The psycho does all these terrible things, but when the slightest thing is used against him he screams about victimization, citizens rights, etc.

Of course we know who the real villain of this is. For using people the way he did he should be treated in the traditional manner, with an elephant attached to each limb...

[h90]

I presume you mean Abhisit and the democrats, yes? They had a year and a half of fresh evidence and several committees on the case and exactly what happened? Nothing, Zilch, Nada.

Ah ok. So there are no MIB right?

No I guess he mean that it is hard to understand why the Democrats didn't do something when they were in power.

[bendejo]

a week before the Red occupation started, Sae Dang was confronted by a patrol of Thai army, in southern Thailand. They had orders to arrest him (perhaps suspecting his leadership role (for militants) in upcoming in the upcoming Bkk demonstration). He had already been a bad boy prior to that, but tolerated by other Army brass. It's tempting and believable to think an Army sniper whacked him. Yet he was more of a liability for Thaksin and Red militants than for the government of the time. Yet, the army doesn't often think in a reasonable manner, so they may have whacked the one man who could have spilled the beans on the MIB and Thaksin's involvement - had he lived to testify. With the puzzle pieces arranged on the table, it looks more likely that he was whacked by Reds, because he knew too much.

Your idea makes sense, but if this were the case they wacked him too soon -- he was on the verge of his finest hour, an all-out face off with the existing military. He would have been a hero, standing up to the evil evil military establishment that seized power and drove that scheming coward generous, loving man of the people from his rightful office. Damned right he'd suffer a glorious martyr's death prior to an official inquest. But maybe not, after all so many of the knuckleheads are still at large or are now holding official titles. But Sah Dang was smart, that was his potentially dangerous trait.

(Is it true that the redshirt leaders were given an IQ test to see if they qualified, and if they scored above 80 they were turned away? )

I do believe that the guy behind all this (please don't call it a political uprising by the people, saying that is an insult to all who hear it) wanted there to be redshirt-ed corpses on the streets so he and his employees could say "LOOK WHAT THEY DID!!!!"

[Robby nz]

She Dueng was probably taken out by the Army as he was a one of theirs acting against them. It was what he was saying in interviews prior to his dealing to that pointed the finger at where the link was. The likes of "it will be over when Thaksin says so" shore put the ownership of all right to the crim.

Dont really know why the army or the Govt would want to take out Sae Deang as at the time he had been saying the had talked to Thaksin and Thaksin had made him the leader of the reds.

Surely this was disruptive to the red leadership and that would have been in the Govts favour.

I suspect the army would rather have seen him stand in front of a court marshel than shoot him.

If the army or Govt had wanted to target the red leadership it would have been easy to shoot one or several of them off the stage with no chance of hitting anyone else.

Sae Deang was shot in the head in a crowd while being interviewd (about being the new red leader) therefore it would have been easy to have injured or killed someone around him.

Lastly a question, did taking him out prevent or slow down the men in black attacks. Answer no.

Then theres the possibility he was working for the army all along, a spy in the red ranks.

[Thai at Heart]

a week before the Red occupation started, Sae Dang was confronted by a patrol of Thai army, in southern Thailand. They had orders to arrest him (perhaps suspecting his leadership role (for militants) in upcoming in the upcoming Bkk demonstration). He had already been a bad boy prior to that, but tolerated by other Army brass. It's tempting and believable to think an Army sniper whacked him. Yet he was more of a liability for Thaksin and Red militants than for the government of the time. Yet, the army doesn't often think in a reasonable manner, so they may have whacked the one man who could have spilled the beans on the MIB and Thaksin's involvement - had he lived to testify. With the puzzle pieces arranged on the table, it looks more likely that he was whacked by Reds, because he knew too much.

Your idea makes sense, but if this were the case they wacked him too soon -- he was on the verge of his finest hour, an all-out face off with the existing military. He would have been a hero, standing up to the evil evil military establishment that seized power and drove that scheming coward generous, loving man of the people from his rightful office. Damned right he'd suffer a glorious martyr's death prior to an official inquest. But maybe not, after all so many of the knuckleheads are still at large or are now holding official titles. But Sah Dang was smart, that was his potentially dangerous trait.

(Is it true that the redshirt leaders were given an IQ test to see if they qualified, and if they scored above 80 they were turned away? )

I do believe that the guy behind all this (please don't call it a political uprising by the people, saying that is an insult to all who hear it) wanted there to be redshirt-ed corpses on the streets so he and his employees could say "LOOK WHAT THEY DID!!!!"

Well, I would think tactically, even the Thai Army worked out that taking out the leader of the 'security'/black shirts would only make the job easier.

He was absolutely ripe to be taken out by a sniper, marching around like he was absolutely untouchable. He turned against his own army, what did he expect?

[Pi Sek]

No particular point to make here... but the CRES did arrest a Black Shirt - Pichet "Phumkitti" Sukjiddathong - in the last few days of the protest. He was reportedly General Seh Daeng’s closest aide and right-hand man, and was accused of terrorism. During interrogation, he stated that Natthawut was the primarily person responsible for ordering violence but, the last I heard, he didn't show up at court, citing poor health (which was also why he felt he deserved to be out on bail), and Natthawut gave evidence on his behalf (!).

[Thai at Heart]

No particular point to make here... but the CRES did arrest a Black Shirt - Pichet "Phumkitti" Sukjiddathong - in the last few days of the protest. He was reportedly General Seh Daeng’s closest aide and right-hand man, and was accused of terrorism. During interrogation, he stated that Natthawut was the primarily person responsible for ordering violence but, the last I heard, he didn't show up at court, citing poor health (which was also why he felt he deserved to be out on bail), and Natthawut gave evidence on his behalf (!).

Indeed, I remember this story. Where has he gone?

[Pi Sek]

Oh, and 22 April 2010:

Actor-turned-Red Shirt activist Methi Amornwuttikul was arrested by police with heavy weapons in his car and was questioned by the Department of Special Investigation (DSI). He was suspected to be involved in armed attacks against state troops on 10 April, but during interrogation he gave out information on the source of the weaponry he was holding and on the Black Shirts – who, he stated, were also involved in the series of bomb blasts the night before. The DSI said that Methi’s charges were punishable by death in Thailand. He specifically mentioned General Seh Daeng and Peua Thai chairman General Chavalit Yongchaiyudh.

I don't know what happened to him either - the last I heard, he accused Jatuporn of making a death-threat to stop him from testifying against the UDD. I suspect the DSI, through the public prosecutor, granted clemency from the death penalty in exchange for info.

"He (Chatuporn) threatened me and called me a traitor. He wanted me to stop being a state witness against the red shirts movement. I want the DSI to seek a court order to revoke Chatuporn's bail as he violated the bail condition by threatening me," he told reporters.

[yoshiwara]

I recall a red being interviewed on TV back when they were camped out on the streets, it was either Al Jazeera or BBC. The red kept saying non-violent, the protest was non-violent, the movement was non-violent. The interviewer asked about the armed men, the red said that was to protect the people in case the government attacked. Umm, back to Mahatma Ghandi 101.

This whole thing reminds me of the movie Dirty Harry. The psycho does all these terrible things, but when the slightest thing is used against him he screams about victimization, citizens rights, etc.

Of course we know who the real villain of this is. For using people the way he did he should be treated in the traditional manner, with an elephant attached to each limb...

Leading up to the reds going ballistic, there were serious attempts to get both sides to negotiate. Thaksin was asked and said go ahead and make peace. So they did and had provisionally agreed to bring forward the election which was supposedly the objective of the protests in Bangkok. Thaksin had not bargained for this. His objective was to bring the government down. It was then that Seh Daeng was brought out of the shadows to denounce the agreement. This led to serious loss of face for the Thaksin side negotiators including prominent PT leaders. Seh Daeng was shot and the violence kicked off big time. The MIB had the heavy weaponry that the reds did not, but they weren't totally hiding. Seen on the red stage.

[15Peter20]

The reason why this issue is coming up now? Ah! There's the rub. Observe now what is going on in the background.

After Thaksin failed miserably with his last attempt to return back to Thailand in triumph he is now holding court with PT leaders and wannabes waving the stinky stick of a reshuffle.

But this time, since Thaksin has never really trusted PT leaders and knows that they would be more than happy if he stayed away, wants to put in some hard core red leaders of the calibre of Jatuporn and his ilk. He needs to do something to avoid becoming yesterday's man. So what has all of this got to do with the issue of the thread?

The issue is that the hard core leaders had operational and financial links with the MIB and the Democrats are threatening in effect that if Thaksin puts those with extremely dirty hands into the cabinet then PT may find itself disbanded once again.

I reckon this is the top conspiracy theory of the day so far. Any other contenders will require significant imagination and bias to beat it.

[yoshiwara]

The reason why this issue is coming up now? Ah! There's the rub. Observe now what is going on in the background.

After Thaksin failed miserably with his last attempt to return back to Thailand in triumph he is now holding court with PT leaders and wannabes waving the stinky stick of a reshuffle.

But this time, since Thaksin has never really trusted PT leaders and knows that they would be more than happy if he stayed away, wants to put in some hard core red leaders of the calibre of Jatuporn and his ilk. He needs to do something to avoid becoming yesterday's man. So what has all of this got to do with the issue of the thread?

The issue is that the hard core leaders had operational and financial links with the MIB and the Democrats are threatening in effect that if Thaksin puts those with extremely dirty hands into the cabinet then PT may find itself disbanded once again.

I reckon this is the top conspiracy theory of the day so far. Any other contenders will require significant imagination and bias to beat it.

Throw in the current mini-crisis over withdrawing Thaksin's passport (making the visits to him from aspirant cabinet members less than savoury) and you have some serious push-back from both the DP and the establishment (not allied to Thaksin). The deal is this: the establishment is prepared to live with Yingluck and a PT government in the interests of social stability and future investment requires stability.

What they are not prepared to put up with is either Thaksin returning under the aegis of a bent constitution or Thaksin stuffing the government cabinet with red goons to screw everything up with a ramping up of social turmoil as blackmail to force the return of the Thug in Chief. The MIB issue is the current totem around so-called reconciliation.

[15Peter20]

The reason why this issue is coming up now? Ah! There's the rub. Observe now what is going on in the background.

After Thaksin failed miserably with his last attempt to return back to Thailand in triumph he is now holding court with PT leaders and wannabes waving the stinky stick of a reshuffle.

But this time, since Thaksin has never really trusted PT leaders and knows that they would be more than happy if he stayed away, wants to put in some hard core red leaders of the calibre of Jatuporn and his ilk. He needs to do something to avoid becoming yesterday's man. So what has all of this got to do with the issue of the thread?

The issue is that the hard core leaders had operational and financial links with the MIB and the Democrats are threatening in effect that if Thaksin puts those with extremely dirty hands into the cabinet then PT may find itself disbanded once again.

I reckon this is the top conspiracy theory of the day so far. Any other contenders will require significant imagination and bias to beat it.

Throw in the current mini-crisis over withdrawing Thaksin's passport (making the visits to him from aspirant cabinet members less than savoury) and you have some serious push-back from both the DP and the establishment (not allied to Thaksin). The deal is this: the establishment is prepared to live with Yingluck and a PT government in the interests of social stability and future investment requires stability.

What they are not prepared to put up with is either Thaksin returning under the aegis of a bent constitution or Thaksin stuffing the government cabinet with red goons to screw everything up with a ramping up of social turmoil as blackmail to force the return of the Thug in Chief. The MIB issue is the current totem around so-called reconciliation.

The OP is about the Dems going after Thaksin, not the PTP. In your previous post you say that if Thaksin decides to put red shirts in the cabinet, that could result in the PTP being disbanded. So do you think Thaksin wouldn't know that? And if so, are you now suggesting that Thaksin wants to knowingly sow the seeds of PTP's destruction? Surely that's too preposterous to contemplate. Might as well give up discussing politics if anything at all is possible at any time.

[Nickymaster]

I presume you mean Abhisit and the democrats, yes? They had a year and a half of fresh evidence and several committees on the case and exactly what happened? Nothing, Zilch, Nada.

Ah ok. So there are no MIB right?

No I guess he mean that it is hard to understand why the Democrats didn't do something when they were in power.

The dems tried very hard through the DSI and police. Problem was that the police is (was) reluctant to arrest people related to Thaksin.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/43550/reuters-obtains-the-dsi-report/

http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Asia/Story/A1Story20100716-227235.html

If you google a bit you find many stories concerning the MIB.

[jayboy]

The reason why this issue is coming up now? Ah! There's the rub. Observe now what is going on in the background.

After Thaksin failed miserably with his last attempt to return back to Thailand in triumph he is now holding court with PT leaders and wannabes waving the stinky stick of a reshuffle.

But this time, since Thaksin has never really trusted PT leaders and knows that they would be more than happy if he stayed away, wants to put in some hard core red leaders of the calibre of Jatuporn and his ilk. He needs to do something to avoid becoming yesterday's man. So what has all of this got to do with the issue of the thread?

The issue is that the hard core leaders had operational and financial links with the MIB and the Democrats are threatening in effect that if Thaksin puts those with extremely dirty hands into the cabinet then PT may find itself disbanded once again.

I reckon this is the top conspiracy theory of the day so far. Any other contenders will require significant imagination and bias to beat it.

Throw in the current mini-crisis over withdrawing Thaksin's passport (making the visits to him from aspirant cabinet members less than savoury) and you have some serious push-back from both the DP and the establishment (not allied to Thaksin). The deal is this: the establishment is prepared to live with Yingluck and a PT government in the interests of social stability and future investment requires stability.

What they are not prepared to put up with is either Thaksin returning under the aegis of a bent constitution or Thaksin stuffing the government cabinet with red goons to screw everything up with a ramping up of social turmoil as blackmail to force the return of the Thug in Chief. The MIB issue is the current totem around so-called reconciliation.

Leaving aside the irony about bent constitutions and accepting your hypothesis about the establishment position, the question remains what action will be taken if Thaksin and the redshirts won't play ball.All the obvious possibilities are now problematic - and as we have seen past attempts to neutralise the red tide have failed, the so called cure being as toxic as the disease.

[Pimay1]

The reason why this issue is coming up now? Ah! There's the rub. Observe now what is going on in the background.

After Thaksin failed miserably with his last attempt to return back to Thailand in triumph he is now holding court with PT leaders and wannabes waving the stinky stick of a reshuffle.

But this time, since Thaksin has never really trusted PT leaders and knows that they would be more than happy if he stayed away, wants to put in some hard core red leaders of the calibre of Jatuporn and his ilk. He needs to do something to avoid becoming yesterday's man. So what has all of this got to do with the issue of the thread?

The issue is that the hard core leaders had operational and financial links with the MIB and the Democrats are threatening in effect that if Thaksin puts those with extremely dirty hands into the cabinet then PT may find itself disbanded once again.

I reckon this is the top conspiracy theory of the day so far. Any other contenders will require significant imagination and bias to beat it.

Throw in the current mini-crisis over withdrawing Thaksin's passport (making the visits to him from aspirant cabinet members less than savoury) and you have some serious push-back from both the DP and the establishment (not allied to Thaksin). The deal is this: the establishment is prepared to live with Yingluck and a PT government in the interests of social stability and future investment requires stability.

What they are not prepared to put up with is either Thaksin returning under the aegis of a bent constitution or Thaksin stuffing the government cabinet with red goons to screw everything up with a ramping up of social turmoil as blackmail to force the return of the Thug in Chief. The MIB issue is the current totem around so-called reconciliation.

Leaving aside the irony about bent constitutions and accepting your hypothesis about the establishment position, the question remains what action will be taken if Thaksin and the redshirts won't play ball.All the obvious possibilities are now problematic - and as we have seen past attempts to neutralise the red tide have failed, the so called cure being as toxic as the disease.

Never under estimate the ruthlessness of Thaksin. He would throw his own sister under the bus if it meant him coming back a free man and getting his billions back. He has his red thug mob in waiting for his bidding.

[LomSak27]

I can see people hating Thaksin but it amazes me that anyone here would actually believe such a a simple minded lie as this is.

I guess what they say about Thai expats is true.

Hopeless

[h90]

I presume you mean Abhisit and the democrats, yes? They had a year and a half of fresh evidence and several committees on the case and exactly what happened? Nothing, Zilch, Nada.

Ah ok. So there are no MIB right?

No I guess he mean that it is hard to understand why the Democrats didn't do something when they were in power.

The dems tried very hard through the DSI and police. Problem was that the police is (was) reluctant to arrest people related to Thaksin.

http://asiancorrespo...the-dsi-report/

http://news.asiaone....716-227235.html

If you google a bit you find many stories concerning the MIB.

First thing Samak did was to change the Police boss, first thing Yingluck (Thaksin) did was to change the Police boss.

Abhisit could have kicked the police chief out of the window for neglect of duty and reinstall the police boss Samak kicked out (or some other) who is doing the same thing down the chain of command.

Than he would have been a respectable leader.

He might have failed, than we could say, he tried his best, but he tried everything.

So we have to say, he was just too weak, too coward.

[MunterHunter]

So the Chief of Police is a political position in this country? (Rhetorical question)

[Nickymaster]

Ah ok. So there are no MIB right?

No I guess he mean that it is hard to understand why the Democrats didn't do something when they were in power.

The dems tried very hard through the DSI and police. Problem was that the police is (was) reluctant to arrest people related to Thaksin.

http://asiancorrespo...the-dsi-report/

http://news.asiaone....716-227235.html

If you google a bit you find many stories concerning the MIB.

First thing Samak did was to change the Police boss, first thing Yingluck (Thaksin) did was to change the Police boss.

Abhisit could have kicked the police chief out of the window for neglect of duty and reinstall the police boss Samak kicked out (or some other) who is doing the same thing down the chain of command.

Than he would have been a respectable leader.

He might have failed, than we could say, he tried his best, but he tried everything.

So we have to say, he was just too weak, too coward.

I wish the political scene in Thailand was that simple. Maybe you should run?

[h90]

I wish the political scene in Thailand was that simple. Maybe you should run?

If it is too difficult for the Democrats than they don't deserve to be in power. The only problem is that the alternatives are a bunch of criminals.

[h90]

So the Chief of Police is a political position in this country? (Rhetorical question)

Always was.....That Thaksin put his brother in law as Chief of Police doesn't look complete unpolitical.

[yoshiwara]

Never under estimate the ruthlessness of Thaksin. He would throw his own sister under the bus if it meant him coming back a free man and getting his billions back. He has his red thug mob in waiting for his bidding.

One of Thaksin's blatant tactics presently is to sneak family members into governmental and administrative positions, so it is highly unlikely that he would throw his sister under the bus. However he is quite happy to strap her to the front of the bus and use her as a bumper against oncoming traffic and the MIB headwind is straight ahead.

[FarangTalk]

The dems tried very hard through the DSI and police. Problem was that the police is (was) reluctant to arrest people related to Thaksin.

http://asiancorrespo...the-dsi-report/

http://news.asiaone....716-227235.html

If you google a bit you find many stories concerning the MIB.

The Police are reluctant to arrest anyone.

How many arrests were made when the airport was taken over by the yellows and then picture a similar incident happening in another country.

Just another example of Thai incompetence.