Democrats: Thaksin Was Behind Men In Black

[EvilDrSomkid]

Oh, and 22 April 2010:

Actor-turned-Red Shirt activist Methi Amornwuttikul was arrested by police with heavy weapons in his car and was questioned by the Department of Special Investigation (DSI). He was suspected to be involved in armed attacks against state troops on 10 April, but during interrogation he gave out information on the source of the weaponry he was holding and on the Black Shirts – who, he stated, were also involved in the series of bomb blasts the night before. The DSI said that Methi’s charges were punishable by death in Thailand. He specifically mentioned General Seh Daeng and Peua Thai chairman General Chavalit Yongchaiyudh.

I don't know what happened to him either - the last I heard, he accused Jatuporn of making a death-threat to stop him from testifying against the UDD. I suspect the DSI, through the public prosecutor, granted clemency from the death penalty in exchange for info.

"He (Chatuporn) threatened me and called me a traitor. He wanted me to stop being a state witness against the red shirts movement. I want the DSI to seek a court order to revoke Chatuporn's bail as he violated the bail condition by threatening me," he told reporters.

Both your posts are good points. I had almost forgotten about this. How many others have as well?

Apparently, the Dems now have solid evidence that Nattawut and Jatuporn instructed the MIB. Who were in turn instructed by the Master of Puppets.

However, in this country, even when some one has been caught dead-to-rights, nothing happens. Strange isn't it?

Regarding the shooting of Seh Deang, it is a little more complicated. I believe there are good arguments for both sides.

He could have been shot on instructions of the RTA brass, or by the Red Shirts. I am leaning more towards RTA.

He had repeatedly insulted and threatened his colleagues. He had more or less admitted to ordering hand grenade attacks agains Army installations. Most of all, he was going rogue.

The timing just was not right for the Red Shirts to shoot him. I can understand the argument he would be made a martyr, but it was too soon.

[EvilDrSomkid]

Never under estimate the ruthlessness of Thaksin. He would throw his own sister under the bus if it meant him coming back a free man and getting his billions back. He has his red thug mob in waiting for his bidding.

One of Thaksin's blatant tactics presently is to sneak family members into governmental and administrative positions, so it is highly unlikely that he would throw his sister under the bus. However he is quite happy to strap her to the front of the bus and use her as a bumper against oncoming traffic and the MIB headwind is straight ahead.

He isn't exactly sneaking them in. It is quite in your face and contains a strong message to his enemies.

"See, I am replacing your people with mine again". One of the reasons why he was removed in 2006.

[Pi Sek]

<snip>

Apparently, the Dems now have solid evidence that Nattawut and Jatuporn instructed the MIB. Who were in turn instructed by the Master of Puppets.

<snip>

Not doubting you or anything, but where did you find this snippet?

[EvilDrSomkid]

<snip>

Apparently, the Dems now have solid evidence that Nattawut and Jatuporn instructed the MIB. Who were in turn instructed by the Master of Puppets.

<snip>

Not doubting you or anything, but where did you find this snippet?

A buddy of mine works for the Dems.

He confirmed to me. Did not show me anything, but next time I have a chance to chat with him face to face, I will ask for more details. Don't know if he can/will provide.

[Pi Sek]

ay

<snip>

Apparently, the Dems now have solid evidence that Nattawut and Jatuporn instructed the MIB. Who were in turn instructed by the Master of Puppets.

<snip>

Not doubting you or anything, but where did you find this snippet?

A buddy of mine works for the Dems.

He confirmed to me. Did not show me anything, but next time I have a chance to chat with him face to face, I will ask for more details. Don't know if he can/will provide.

I've no doubt that the Dems have info that hasn't yet been released - they released some of it at the censure debate at the end of May 2010 (like the monks with M16s).

[bendejo]

Leading up to the reds going ballistic, there were serious attempts to get both sides to negotiate. Thaksin was asked and said go ahead and make peace. So they did and had provisionally agreed to bring forward the election which was supposedly the objective of the protests in Bangkok. Thaksin had not bargained for this. His objective was to bring the government down. It was then that Seh Daeng was brought out of the shadows to denounce the agreement. This led to serious loss of face for the Thaksin side negotiators including prominent PT leaders. Seh Daeng was shot and the violence kicked off big time. The MIB had the heavy weaponry that the reds did not, but they weren't totally hiding. Seen on the red stage.

You flatter the red 'committee.'

The general term on TV at the time was "The Three Stooges Summitt," three reds sat down to negotiate with three of Abhisit's guys.

The red guys had no clout, they were there to do what the boss told them. The hillarious thing was the red guys kept saying they had to go to the bathroom, meaning they had to call the boss to see what to do. The highlight of the farce.

Look at the whole Thaksin organization, not one bright bulb in the lot. One thing the chief doesn't want is someone smart enough to make their own decisions.

That bit about running into the temple and firing from within the grounds (as opposed to going in to seek refuge) is one of the most cowardly things, especially for people who make such a big display of respect for religion. There was once a group of people in India who used to do terrorist acts and then run and hide in their temple to evade the authorities. When the forces finally had enough of it and stormed the temple the cowardly bas_tards couldn't scream loud enough about desecration etc. They felt completely justified in assassinating the PM as payback.

Edited October 16, 2012 by bendejo

[OzMick]

The OP is about the Dems going after Thaksin, not the PTP. In your previous post you say that if Thaksin decides to put red shirts in the cabinet, that could result in the PTP being disbanded. So do you think Thaksin wouldn't know that? And if so, are you now suggesting that Thaksin wants to knowingly sow the seeds of PTP's destruction? Surely that's too preposterous to contemplate. Might as well give up discussing politics if anything at all is possible at any time.

" Surely that's too preposterous to contemplate." Really? Then why was his name so heavily used in PTP electoral advertising while he was banned from political activity? Between that and putting forward unsuitable candidates, PTP has breached electoral law sufficiently to be disbanded, but IMHO this has been withheld because of the risk/threat of violence from the reds. Which would suit somebody inciting turmoil very well TYVM.

[TruthEyes]

The Dems are looking more and more ridiculous here in their attempts to deflect accountability for their part in the bangkok killings.

I could believe that the MIB were planted by the Dems/Army as a contingency plan in case their assault went wrong.

As the assault has spectacularly backfired, the "planted MIB" become the focus

[smedly]

The Dems are looking more and more ridiculous here in their attempts to deflect accountability for their part in the bangkok killings.

I could believe that the MIB were planted by the Dems/Army as a contingency plan in case their assault went wrong.

As the assault has spectacularly backfired, the "planted MIB" become the focus

either you've been smoking something or you need a reality check or you're a wind up merchant - either way ......nuff said lol

[FOODLOVER]

The Dems are looking more and more ridiculous here in their attempts to deflect accountability for their part in the bangkok killings.

I could believe that the MIB were planted by the Dems/Army as a contingency plan in case their assault went wrong.

As the assault has spectacularly backfired, the "planted MIB" become the focus

wow

[Moruya]

The Dems are looking more and more ridiculous here in their attempts to deflect accountability for their part in the bangkok killings.

I could believe that the MIB were planted by the Dems/Army as a contingency plan in case their assault went wrong.

As the assault has spectacularly backfired, the "planted MIB" become the focus

Operating freely within the red shirt ranks?

Smoke on mate!

[473geo]

The OP is about the Dems going after Thaksin, not the PTP. In your previous post you say that if Thaksin decides to put red shirts in the cabinet, that could result in the PTP being disbanded. So do you think Thaksin wouldn't know that? And if so, are you now suggesting that Thaksin wants to knowingly sow the seeds of PTP's destruction? Surely that's too preposterous to contemplate. Might as well give up discussing politics if anything at all is possible at any time.

" Surely that's too preposterous to contemplate." Really? Then why was his name so heavily used in PTP electoral advertising while he was banned from political activity? Between that and putting forward unsuitable candidates, PTP has breached electoral law sufficiently to be disbanded, but IMHO this has been withheld because of the risk/threat of violence from the reds. Which would suit somebody inciting turmoil very well TYVM.

Rather difficult to use Thaksin being 'involved' in politics to disband PTP, he was the core of the Democrats abysmal election campaign, would they be disbanded too?

[TruthEyes]

The Dems are looking more and more ridiculous here in their attempts to deflect accountability for their part in the bangkok killings.

I could believe that the MIB were planted by the Dems/Army as a contingency plan in case their assault went wrong.

As the assault has spectacularly backfired, the "planted MIB" become the focus

Operating freely within the red shirt ranks?

Smoke on mate!

You may have a point there.

Its possible that both sides are correct in their viewpoint, in that there could have been two gangs of "MIB".

A first gang of some dozen or so "MIB" reporting to Seh Deng, armed with catapults and pea-shooters, there to defend the Redshirts from the sort of attacks sufferred at earlier rallies; and a second very large gang of "MIB" , planted by the military junta, armed with AK47's etc, with instructions to cause as much collateral and PR damage as possible to the protest, and as you state "roaming freely".

[Pi Sek]

The Dems are looking more and more ridiculous here in their attempts to deflect accountability for their part in the bangkok killings.

I could believe that the MIB were planted by the Dems/Army as a contingency plan in case their assault went wrong.

As the assault has spectacularly backfired, the "planted MIB" become the focus

Operating freely within the red shirt ranks?

Smoke on mate!

You may have a point there.

Its possible that both sides are correct in their viewpoint, in that there could have been two gangs of "MIB".

A first gang of some dozen or so "MIB" reporting to Seh Deng, armed with catapults and pea-shooters, there to defend the Redshirts from the sort of attacks sufferred at earlier rallies; and a second very large gang of "MIB" , planted by the military junta, armed with AK47's etc, with instructions to cause as much collateral and PR damage as possible to the protest, and as you state "roaming freely".

Hilarious.

[GiHadOrange]

well, i have some doubts and looks like there is a lack of evidence to support these claims. so it is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.

[GentlemanJim]

The Dems are looking more and more ridiculous here in their attempts to deflect accountability for their part in the bangkok killings.

I could believe that the MIB were planted by the Dems/Army as a contingency plan in case their assault went wrong.

As the assault has spectacularly backfired, the "planted MIB" become the focus

Operating freely within the red shirt ranks?

Smoke on mate!

You may have a point there.

Its possible that both sides are correct in their viewpoint, in that there could have been two gangs of "MIB".

A first gang of some dozen or so "MIB" reporting to Seh Deng, armed with catapults and pea-shooters, there to defend the Redshirts from the sort of attacks sufferred at earlier rallies; and a second very large gang of "MIB" , planted by the military junta, armed with AK47's etc, with instructions to cause as much collateral and PR damage as possible to the protest, and as you state "roaming freely".

Are you going for the record number of bannings and name changes in the shortest possible time?

[Insight]

The timing just was not right for the Red Shirts to shoot him. I can understand the argument he would be made a martyr, but it was too soon.

In the hours before She Daeng came down with his blinding migraine, he was being very vocal to the media about his orders from the "boss" regarding the placement of tyres around Chula Hospital. These orders were in direct contradiction of what the other red shirt leaders had suggested, and arguably putting more egg on the face of his boss.

In short, he had become a massive liability to the red shirts.

[EvilDrSomkid]

The timing just was not right for the Red Shirts to shoot him. I can understand the argument he would be made a martyr, but it was too soon.

In the hours before She Daeng came down with his blinding migraine, he was being very vocal to the media about his orders from the "boss" regarding the placement of tyres around Chula Hospital. These orders were in direct contradiction of what the other red shirt leaders had suggested, and arguably putting more egg on the face of his boss.

In short, he had become a massive liability to the red shirts.

I see. Interesting.

[Ricardo]

The timing just was not right for the Red Shirts to shoot him. I can understand the argument he would be made a martyr, but it was too soon.

In the hours before She Daeng came down with his blinding migraine, he was being very vocal to the media about his orders from the "boss" regarding the placement of tyres around Chula Hospital. These orders were in direct contradiction of what the other red shirt leaders had suggested, and arguably putting more egg on the face of his boss.

In short, he had become a massive liability to the red shirts.

And many might think, an even bigger liability to the Big Boss, who didn't/doesn't want to have his direct-link with the 'ronin' spelled out quite so clearly, as Sae Daeng was doing & threatening to do.

Surely the Dems/military would have wanted that to come out ?

Edited October 18, 2012 by Ricardo

[EvilDrSomkid]

The timing just was not right for the Red Shirts to shoot him. I can understand the argument he would be made a martyr, but it was too soon.

In the hours before She Daeng came down with his blinding migraine, he was being very vocal to the media about his orders from the "boss" regarding the placement of tyres around Chula Hospital. These orders were in direct contradiction of what the other red shirt leaders had suggested, and arguably putting more egg on the face of his boss.

In short, he had become a massive liability to the red shirts.

And many might think, an even bigger liability to the Big Boss, who didn't/doesn't want to have his direct-link with the 'ronin' spelled out quite so clearly, as Sae Daeng was doing & threatining to do.

Surely the Dems/military would have wanted that to come out ?

Another good point.

[Ricardo]

The Dems are looking more and more ridiculous here in their attempts to deflect accountability for their part in the bangkok killings.

I could believe that the MIB were planted by the Dems/Army as a contingency plan in case their assault went wrong.

As the assault has spectacularly backfired, the "planted MIB" become the focus

Operating freely within the red shirt ranks?

Smoke on mate!

You may have a point there.

Its possible that both sides are correct in their viewpoint, in that there could have been two gangs of "MIB".

A first gang of some dozen or so "MIB" reporting to Seh Deng, armed with catapults and pea-shooters, there to defend the Redshirts from the sort of attacks sufferred at earlier rallies; and a second very large gang of "MIB" , planted by the military junta, armed with AK47's etc, with instructions to cause as much collateral and PR damage as possible to the protest, and as you state "roaming freely".

"planted by the military junta" ?

We're surely discussing 2010, not 2006-7, in this thread ?

And one might just-as-easily postulate that there were two groups of army-soldiers involved, one the peace-loving conscript-troops of the Thai military who never fired a shot, and the other a terrorist-force wearing the same uniforms and 'planted' by the Red-Shirts, to kill a few innocent protesters and provide an excuse for accusing the democratic elected-government of being genocidal.

Which would be equally nonsense IMO.

[Moruya]

The Dems are looking more and more ridiculous here in their attempts to deflect accountability for their part in the bangkok killings.

I could believe that the MIB were planted by the Dems/Army as a contingency plan in case their assault went wrong.

As the assault has spectacularly backfired, the "planted MIB" become the focus

Operating freely within the red shirt ranks?

Smoke on mate!

You may have a point there.

Its possible that both sides are correct in their viewpoint, in that there could have been two gangs of "MIB".

A first gang of some dozen or so "MIB" reporting to Seh Deng, armed with catapults and pea-shooters, there to defend the Redshirts from the sort of attacks sufferred at earlier rallies; and a second very large gang of "MIB" , planted by the military junta, armed with AK47's etc, with instructions to cause as much collateral and PR damage as possible to the protest, and as you state "roaming freely".

Smoke on......

[jaidam]

The Dems are looking more and more ridiculous here in their attempts to deflect accountability for their part in the bangkok killings.

I could believe that the MIB were planted by the Dems/Army as a contingency plan in case their assault went wrong.

As the assault has spectacularly backfired, the "planted MIB" become the focus

Operating freely within the red shirt ranks?

Smoke on mate!

You may have a point there.

Its possible that both sides are correct in their viewpoint, in that there could have been two gangs of "MIB".

A first gang of some dozen or so "MIB" reporting to Seh Deng, armed with catapults and pea-shooters, there to defend the Redshirts from the sort of attacks sufferred at earlier rallies; and a second very large gang of "MIB" , planted by the military junta, armed with AK47's etc, with instructions to cause as much collateral and PR damage as possible to the protest, and as you state "roaming freely".

Smoke on......

trutheyes your post is particularly insulting to all the redshirts at that protest. You are saying that they were all so skull-crushingly stupid that they did not realise that armed enemies had invaded their ranks and were shooting them?

Ironic that you should think that way, when other forum red supporters have been telling us that the reds are intelligent and politically savvy(even though they are trying to install a dicatorial family dynasty that is duly bound to make their lives worse).

[Buchholz]

Oh, and 22 April 2010:

Actor-turned-Red Shirt activist Methi Amornwuttikul was arrested by police with heavy weapons in his car and was questioned by the Department of Special Investigation (DSI). He was suspected to be involved in armed attacks against state troops on 10 April, but during interrogation he gave out information on the source of the weaponry he was holding and on the Black Shirts – who, he stated, were also involved in the series of bomb blasts the night before. The DSI said that Methi’s charges were punishable by death in Thailand. He specifically mentioned General Seh Daeng and Peua Thai chairman General Chavalit Yongchaiyudh.

Probe says DSI dragged its feet in "men in black" investigation

A Senate panel has concluded that armed "men in black" attacked troops on April 10 2010 and that the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) ignored evidence against the protesters.

The sub-committee monitoring the progress of cases related to political violence, which is chaired by Senator Somchai Sawaengkarn, held a press conference on Tuesday to announce its finding into the probe of the clash between red-shirt protesters and troops on April 10, 2010.

During the clash, General Romklao Thuwatham, former Deputy Chief-of-Staff of the Second Infantry Division, was killed.

Lt General Nanthadej Meksawat, a member of the sub-committee, said the panel had studied video clips and interviewed over 100 witnesses and came up with four points of conclusion.

First, the panel concluded that the violence on April 10, 2010 was not started by the troops.

Second, the panel saw that the troops dispatched to control the protesters had acted properly within the framework of the laws because the protesters expanded their rally site from Phan Fah Bridge to Rajdamnoen Road and later on to the Rajprasong Intersection.

Third, video clips clearly showed there were men in black clothes who joined the red-shirt protesters. Witnesses, who were officials and from the general public, testified to the panel that a van delivered men in black who walked into the group of protesters outside the Sattree Witthaya School.

A foreign reporter recorded a video of men in black but an armed man confronted him with a gun and seized the camera from him. As a result, several witnesses believed there were men in black who fired at the troops.

Fourth, the panel saw that the DSI was dragging its feet in investigating the killing of Romklao. The panel found that two safety pins of M67 grenades were found at two houses opposite the Sattree Witthaya School. The two safety pins were believed to belong to the two grenades thrown at Romklao, killing him.

But the panel wondered why the DSI did not investigate this point, Nanthadej said.

Dr. Wirat Phanitpong, an appointed senator and a member of the sub-committee, said the panel believed that a red-shirt protester, Wasant Phuthong, was shot from behind by one of the protesters.

Wirat said the ballistics trace showed that the bullet did not come from the direction of soldiers and there were no troops near the slain protester.

Somchai told the press conference there was evidence there were men in black among the protesters and they had prepared to fight the authorities with AK 47 assault rifles, M79 grenades and M67 grenades as well as teargas, while troops were armed on that occasion only with shields and batons.

Somchai said the panel also suspected that several of 26 victims were not killed at the scene, but were carried from other areas because blood traces and DNA tests did not match the scenes of violence.

He said the panel also found that the DSI had made no progress in taking action against the protesters, especially former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra who was suspected of being the mastermind of the violence.

Somchai said the panel also found that the DSI was slow in probing he deaths of 89 persons killed in 2010.

Somchai said his panel would submit its finding to the Senate committee on human rights, liberty and consumer protection tomorrow.

-- The Nation 2103-04-09

[seajae]

As long as thaksin is paying them to look at the democrats only nothing will be done even though they have the statement from Methi, they refuse point blank to look at any possibility that it will leed directly to the red shirts and thaksin. Money is better than the truth to the DSI, they really treat the people of Thailand like children by not being honest and simply doing as thaksin directs them to.

[Robby nz]

Remember posting at the time of seeing a red shirt protester being on Tele interviewed from a hospital bed where he was receiving treatment for being shot in the back.

He said he and others had been told to stand facing the troops and he was in the second row from the front and was shot in the back.

Remember commenting at the time if the army had shot him they must have been using OZ boomerang bullets.

[SchuetzRob]

>sigh< isn't he behind anything, from growing beer- prices to bad weather...?

i think we can accept that he has nothing to do with the weather . however, we should not forget 'thaksin thinks, phuea thai acts' . surprisingly this was and is a slogan which was and is proven true day after day. so i agree, he is not behind everything, but he is behind many things happening in thailand,. like it or not.

[backtonormal]

The four questions make a lot of sense to me, except for number 3. I believe he probably was killed by a govt. sniper, and rightfully so. He was dangerous, and advocating violence in a very reckless manner. I don't believe he was a "sacrificial lamb", but I do believe he was a very dangerous loose cannon who had to be killed for the safety of everybody.

>Seh Daeng got whacked by Thai Army snipers unders orders by the government for desertion and mutiny.

a week before the Red occupation started, Sae Dang was confronted by a patrol of Thai army, in southern Thailand. They had orders to arrest him (perhaps suspecting his leadership role (for militants) in upcoming in the upcoming Bkk demonstration). He had already been a bad boy prior to that, but tolerated by other Army brass. It's tempting and believable to think an Army sniper whacked him. Yet he was more of a liability for Thaksin and Red militants than for the government of the time. Yet, the army doesn't often think in a reasonable manner, so they may have whacked the one man who could have spilled the beans on the MIB and Thaksin's involvement - had he lived to testify. With the puzzle pieces arranged on the table, it looks more likely that he was whacked by Reds, because he knew too much.

The key point of all this for me is that for all the army personnel, snipers, support troops , observer teams etc, no MIB were captured or tried I believe. I find that odd .

Thais are adept at fading away. Most times, when we hear of a public bus driver who wrecks a bus full of passengers - the driver is last seen running out in to a rice paddy, never to be heard of again. Another angle: a local Thai woman owed me money. Last I heard, she had gone to another province and got a sex change. Even getting name changes are easy here, and it's used to avoid credit card payments. On a top gov't level, when a former Minister is accused of malfeasance or corruption while in office, all he/she has to say is: "I'm not head of that office any more, how can you lay charges about that?" That's the Thai way.

Whacked by the reds uh. So if they had the will the know how to hit a General in the head from maybe 250m (guess) why did no soldiers get assassinated with a bullet to the head. The TV pics showed the shooting, experts could have ascertained from which angle and direction the round came from, if they had wanted too. Bit like superwoman Porntip who investigetd the so called grenade attack on the public. She investigated and then no one heard the findings of that investigation. You need to face it, burning central, assassinating a general, MIB , shooting journos so the world wont know was all the work of the DEMS

[Buchholz]

You need to face it, burning central, assassinating a general, MIB , shooting journos so the world wont know was all the work of the DEMS

[Buchholz]

video clips clearly showed there were men in black clothes who joined the red-shirt protesters. Witnesses, who were officials and from the general public, testified to the panel that a van delivered men in black who walked into the group of protesters outside the Sattree Witthaya School.

You need to face it, burning central, assassinating a general, MIB , shooting journos so the world wont know was all the work of the DEMS

.

Why not go for the whole enchilada?

If the Dems were responsible for the MIB, the Dems were responsible for the whole Red Shirt movement.

.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Buchholz