Britain, Scotland Sign Deal For Independence Referendum

[MAJIC]

Certainly the lack of knowledge of the current Scottish political arena is amusing. Jack McConnell eh....oh yes....every rose has his thorn!

Quite right Smokie..........Instant Google experts commenting on things they haven't got a clue about.......and misinterpreting what they are looking at.......watch this one.

7x7.......at what point did Rompuy mention Scotland in his answer......note answer.....on that youtube clip?

Huh?

This from the Master of misinterpreting,who in addition, will only accept media reports etc, that HE thinks supports his view.

And that's only if the Media has been vetted by him as suitable and approved by him for public consumption.

i.e no Google,no Labour Papers,no Guardian, makes one laugh really censored by another Poster. However he does use Wikipeodia,so I assume Wiki is allowed for us too (but maybe not). In short any quotes from these sources are not allowed,unless approved by The Blether.

[endure]

In the meantime here's the photos I posted yesterday......they are both relevant.

I can't find the motorway photo I posted, but this one has the same effect.,

These photos still aren't appearing for me. You might want to think about using a different host like Photobucket for them.

[theblether]

In the meantime here's the photos I posted yesterday......they are both relevant.

I can't find the motorway photo I posted, but this one has the same effect.,

These photos still aren't appearing for me. You might want to think about using a different host like Photobucket for them.

Will do.....they are showing on my feed though.

[theblether]

Certainly the lack of knowledge of the current Scottish political arena is amusing. Jack McConnell eh....oh yes....every rose has his thorn!

Quite right Smokie..........Instant Google experts commenting on things they haven't got a clue about.......and misinterpreting what they are looking at.......watch this one.

7x7.......at what point did Rompuy mention Scotland in his answer......note answer.....on that youtube clip?

Huh?

This from the Master of misinterpreting,who in addition, will only accept media reports etc, that HE thinks supports his view.

And that's only if the Media has been vetted by him as suitable and approved by him for public consumption.

i.e no Google,no Labour Papers,no Guardian, makes one laugh really censored by another Poster. However he does use Wikipeodia,so I assume Wiki is allowed for us too (but maybe not). In short any quotes from these sources are not allowed,unless approved by The Blether.

Just nonsense MAJIC.......look back and see who it was that started this "denigrate the media" campaign......it wasn't me

The amusing thing about the Guardian link is......it PROVED my point......and yet you guys overlooked it.

It's surreal......quite surreal.

ps. I have no objection to Google.......I do have an objection to Instant Google experts

They look at one link and think they know the whole story

Edited November 8, 2012 by theblether

[phuketjock]

and for everyones information Scotland actually voted against entering the

EEC ( 51% no vote ) but the English, oops, British government of the day took

us in anyway.

Really?

Faced with the referendum question, "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?" Britons voted "Yes" in most of the 68 administrative counties, regions and Northern Ireland. Only Shetland and the Western Isles voted against the EEC.

(Source)

Scotland; Yes 58.4%; No 41.6% (Source)

Yes Really

Had you taken the time to read my post correctly you would have seen that I

was referring to the vote for Entering the EEC ( common market) not some

question about staying in the EEC presumeably posed at some time after

Britain had already foolishly joined said market!!!

[transam]

AH, common market has been mentioned, l am no economist, a numnut really regarding the subject but it seems to this numnut that the very small UK is ploughing ooooooooooooodles of cash to bolster or take care of others. So where is the payback for the UK tax payer when we don't even belong to the EU currency. ?

[MAJIC]

Certainly the lack of knowledge of the current Scottish political arena is amusing. Jack McConnell eh....oh yes....every rose has his thorn!

Quite right Smokie..........Instant Google experts commenting on things they haven't got a clue about.......and misinterpreting what they are looking at.......watch this one.

7x7.......at what point did Rompuy mention Scotland in his answer......note answer.....on that youtube clip?

Huh?

This from the Master of misinterpreting,who in addition, will only accept media reports etc, that HE thinks supports his view.

And that's only if the Media has been vetted by him as suitable and approved by him for public consumption.

i.e no Google,no Labour Papers,no Guardian, makes one laugh really censored by another Poster. However he does use Wikipeodia,so I assume Wiki is allowed for us too (but maybe not). In short any quotes from these sources are not allowed,unless approved by The Blether.

Just nonsense MAJIC.......look back and see who it was that started this "denigrate the media" campaign......it wasn't me

The amusing thing about the Guardian link is......it PROVED my point......and yet you guys overlooked it.

It's surreal......quite surreal.

ps. I have no objection to Google.......I do have an objection to Instant Google experts

They look at one link and think they know the whole story

The only thing Surreal here is your attitude and style of debating!

Ducking and Diving, Twisting and Turning,Worming your way out of giving straight answers, and then to top it all, petulently refusing Media Reports from Media sources not approved by you... In all my years on Thai Visa, I have never seen such a blatantly childish attempt to gag other Posters,by hiding behind silly veils of Secrecy and Mystery. i.e (i'm not playing now,because I can't answer the questions boo! hoo!) strewth! they couldn't make up a character in the Sun,like this.

Come on The Blether who do you think this Hogwash you are spouting is kidding? Study facts a bit more,and you will find the English are not quaking in their Boots,re the impending Referendum, neither are they lying awake at night worried. Of course you will never admit it,but Scotland has far more to be worried about than England.

You come from a position of weakness,having requested the Referendum, with a hand out,don't think Scotland is going away with analogical Train loads of Loot,and Assets, leaving us penniless,and empty cupboards, in your wildest dreams, it will never happen.

What really needs to be serious considered is that after 300 years of support,can Scotland stand alone?

Personally Pre Referendum stage (assuming the Bookmakers will be giving odds, Anti Post of course) I will be placing a large stake on Scotland giving a NO vote.The people know which side their bread is buttered,and Salmond is going to have one hell of a job convincing intelligent people,that he knows best. Especially as SNP MPs have been dwindling in recent Elections (now down to 6 from 14?), that must tell you something,of the trust felt for Salmond,but you know already the majority of the people have no trust in Salmond.

The Blether: Beneath your Bluster,Bragging,Bravado,and Bullsh*t,you come across as a deeply worried man.

Edited November 8, 2012 by MAJIC

[Scott]

Please address the issue and not other posters. If you want your post to remain, you need to be civil and to respect other poster's opinion, even if you disagree.

[theblether]

I'm not ducking and diving MAJIC.......I'm appalled at the bigotry and ignorance shown by many members on this thread.

It is patently clear to the Scottish contingent reading this thread that there are certain people putting themselves forward as experts on this matter who are embarrassingly short of knowledge.....and when it get's pointed out to them that they are clearly and obviously wrong, they go off on thousand word rants.

Later today I will describe the background to this debate......I'm at work just now and I don't have have time to do justice to the subject.

7x7 demands answers............he will get answers later today, after which I'll be expecting some apologies and acknowledgements.

[theblether]

Incidentally MAJIC.........I did predict defeat at this Referendum.....did you forget that?

[7by7]

and for everyones information Scotland actually voted against entering the

EEC ( 51% no vote ) but the English, oops, British government of the day took

us in anyway.

Really?

Faced with the referendum question, "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?" Britons voted "Yes" in most of the 68 administrative counties, regions and Northern Ireland. Only Shetland and the Western Isles voted against the EEC.

(Source)

Scotland; Yes 58.4%; No 41.6% (Source)

Yes Really

Had you taken the time to read my post correctly you would have seen that I

was referring to the vote for Entering the EEC ( common market) not some

question about staying in the EEC presumeably posed at some time after

Britain had already foolishly joined said market!!!

I don't want to come over all bletherish; but you really should check your facts.

In 1973 the Conservative government of Edward Heath took the UK into what was then the EEC without a referendum.

In 1975 the Labour government under Harold Wilson 'renegotiated' the UK's terms of membership and then held a referendum asking whether or not the UK should remain a member.

That has been the only referendum, so far, on the UK's membership of what is now the EU.

Incidentally, I voted 'Yes' in that referendum as we were told that the EEC was simply a free trade area and remaining within would have no effect on the UK's sovereignty. Like many others, I'm sure, I now realise we were conned.

Much like Salmond is attempting to con the Scottish people.

Edited November 8, 2012 by 7by7

[phuketjock]

In the meantime here's the photos I posted yesterday......they are both relevant.

I can't find the motorway photo I posted, but this one has the same effect.,

These photos still aren't appearing for me. You might want to think about using a different host like Photobucket for them.

Will do.....they are showing on my feed though.

@ Blether.

I am not seeing the pics either mate???

[MAJIC]

Incidentally MAJIC.........I did predict defeat at this Referendum.....did you forget that?

Yes! I do remember your prediction.

[MAJIC]

and for everyones information Scotland actually voted against entering the

EEC ( 51% no vote ) but the English, oops, British government of the day took

us in anyway.

Really?

Faced with the referendum question, "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?" Britons voted "Yes" in most of the 68 administrative counties, regions and Northern Ireland. Only Shetland and the Western Isles voted against the EEC.

(Source)

Scotland; Yes 58.4%; No 41.6% (Source)

Yes Really

Had you taken the time to read my post correctly you would have seen that I

was referring to the vote for Entering the EEC ( common market) not some

question about staying in the EEC presumeably posed at some time after

Britain had already foolishly joined said market!!!

I don't want to come over all bletherish; but you really should check your facts.

In 1973 the Conservative government of Edward Heath took the UK into what was then the EEC without a referendum.

In 1975 the Labour government under Harold Wilson 'renegotiated' the UK's terms of membership and then held a referendum asking whether or not the UK should remain a member.

That has been the only referendum, so far, on the UK's membership of what is now the EU.

Incidentally, I voted 'Yes' in that referendum as we were told that the EEC was simply a free trade area and remaining within would have no effect on the UK's sovereignty. Like many others, I'm sure, I now realise we were conned.

Much like Salmond is attempting to con the Scottish people

Edited November 8, 2012 by MAJIC

[7by7]

Don't be sending me Guardian links, it's just Labour Party propaganda.

The amusing thing about the Guardian link is......it PROVED my point

First you say the Guardian is just Labour propaganda and so not to be trusted; next you say it proves your point and so is to be trusted!

More twisting and turning from the 'expert!'

I look forward to your 1000+ word essay; I've been having trouble getting to sleep lately.

But unless you actually answer the questions you have been dodging throughout this entire topic; you may as well save yourself the effort. The background to this referendum is out there in various media, of all political colours, for all to read.

Contrary to your belief, I have actually read a lot of it; although as I have used Google as my search engine of choice you wont believe me.

Funny that when you use Google it's proper research but when others do so you deride them as mere 'Instant Google experts' and dismiss the information they find.

We want proper answers to the questions you have repeatedly been asked, not flames and insults and silly smileys!

[bigbamboo]

I see there is no end in sight to the 'Scottish question'.

TBH if I was a Scot I'd probably want independence too. As an Englishman I'd like to see independence for all the home nations as we're all under the Euro umbrella now and likely to stay that way until the Germans have had enough.

Britain was great once but those days and the spirit that went with it is sadly gone..... in spite of the Our Lord Coe's olympian efforts this summer.

Edited November 8, 2012 by bigbamboo

[theblether]

@MAJIC

In which way is Alex Salmond trying to con the Scottish people?

[theblether]

I see there is no end in sight to the 'Scottish question'.

TBH if I was a Scot I'd probably want independence too. As an Englishman I'd like to see independence for all the home nations as we're all under the Euro umbrella now and likely to stay that way until the Germans have had enough.

Britain was great once but those days and the spirit that went with it is sadly gone..... in spite of the Our Lord Coe's olympian efforts this summer.

I got a pm from someone earlier that said the people having a go at me on this thread must be from London or the South East.

There's a North / South divide in England, never mind Scotland. There's an arrogance that flows through the veins of many Londoners that get's the hackles up of everyone above the Watford Gap.

There is a stupid assumption that Scots are anti-English, we are far from it. Yes there can be leg pulling, yes it can sometimes go too far, and yes we have some immature nutters on both sides that take things to a level that horrifies all of us.

That is not the experience of the majority though, there are now 400,000 English people living in Scotland and they are very welcome. Many of these English residents have declared that they too will vote for Independence. Why? Because by living here they can see the reality of political life in the UK, Westminster has gathered too much power unto itself for too long, and even now grudgingly gives a little back.

MAJIC earlier made a high offensive comment about England supporting Scotland for 300 years.........it's this type of disgraceful hyperbole that grates against many people.

Simply put.......we Scots fought and died alongside the English for centuries, and the Welsh, and the Irish. Our Boys are still dying alongside our English compatriots in Afghanistan. Scotland has held it's own and much more over the centuries we have been allied with England and the other nations of the United Kingdom, in fact we have punched well, well above our weight.

However some people are far too bigoted to understand that, and far too ignorant to study history. While we have a cabal, and it looks like a growing cabal, of people of that ilk, entering the discourse, and all we will generate is heat and noise.

This thread is a prime example......it's brain damage.

.

Edited November 8, 2012 by theblether

[Scott]

I have removed a post with a supposed 'image posted'. Since these don't work, please don't post them. They will be deleted in the future.

[MAJIC]

Incidentally MAJIC.........I did predict defeat at this Referendum.....did you forget that?

Yes! I do remember your prediction.

Sounds more like hedging your bets though,fight on the side of the YES vote,while expecting a NO vote, not quite the commitment I would expect,considering you know everything that we South of the Border don't.well at least you can't be wrong eh?

[theblether]

Incidentally MAJIC.........I did predict defeat at this Referendum.....did you forget that?

Yes! I do remember your prediction.

Sounds more like hedging your bets though,fight on the side of the YES vote,while expecting a NO vote, not quite the commitment I would expect,considering you know everything that we South of the Border don't.well at least you can't be wrong eh?

It's called being realistic MAJIC.......we can't lose this Referendum. Whatever happens more power will flow to Scotland.

The Unionists are caught in a trap of their own making.

Anyway......in which way is Alex Salmond attempting to con the Scottish people?

Edited November 8, 2012 by theblether

[MAJIC]

I see there is no end in sight to the 'Scottish question'.

TBH if I was a Scot I'd probably want independence too. As an Englishman I'd like to see independence for all the home nations as we're all under the Euro umbrella now and likely to stay that way until the Germans have had enough.

Britain was great once but those days and the spirit that went with it is sadly gone..... in spite of the Our Lord Coe's olympian efforts this summer.

I got a pm from someone earlier that said the people having a go at me on this thread must be from London or the South East.

There's a North / South divide in England, never mind Scotland. There's an arrogance that flows through the veins of many Londoners that get's the hackles up of everyone above the Watford Gap.

There is a stupid assumption that Scots are anti-English, we are far from it. Yes there can be leg pulling, yes it can sometimes go too far, and yes we have some immature nutters on both sides that take things to a level that horrifies all of us.

That is not the experience of the majority though, there are now 400,000 English people living in Scotland and they are very welcome. Many of these English residents have declared that they too will vote for Independence. Why? Because by living here they can see the reality of political life in the UK, Westminster has gathered too much power unto itself for too long, and even now grudgingly gives a little back.

MAJIC earlier made a high offensive comment about England supporting Scotland for 300 years.........it's this type of disgraceful hyperbole that grates against many people.

Simply put.......we Scots fought and died alongside the English for centuries, and the Welsh, and the Irish. Our Boys are still dying alongside our English compatriots in Afghanistan. Scotland has held it's own and much more over the centuries we have been allied with England and the other nations of the United Kingdom, in fact we have punched well, well above our weight.

However some people are far too bigoted to understand that, and far too ignorant to study history. While we have a cabal, and it looks like a growing cabal, of people of that ilk, entering the discourse, and all we will generate is heat and noise.

This thread is a prime example......it's brain damage.

.

To your 400,000 English living in Scotland, by comparison there are 795,000 Scots living in England,and no doubt after all the Ballyhoo has been dealt with,they will also be welcome,to live in England.

And Blether please don't try and make my remark concerning supporting Scotland into something other than: living together and being supportive,of.

[theblether]

I see there is no end in sight to the 'Scottish question'.

TBH if I was a Scot I'd probably want independence too. As an Englishman I'd like to see independence for all the home nations as we're all under the Euro umbrella now and likely to stay that way until the Germans have had enough.

Britain was great once but those days and the spirit that went with it is sadly gone..... in spite of the Our Lord Coe's olympian efforts this summer.

I got a pm from someone earlier that said the people having a go at me on this thread must be from London or the South East.

There's a North / South divide in England, never mind Scotland. There's an arrogance that flows through the veins of many Londoners that get's the hackles up of everyone above the Watford Gap.

There is a stupid assumption that Scots are anti-English, we are far from it. Yes there can be leg pulling, yes it can sometimes go too far, and yes we have some immature nutters on both sides that take things to a level that horrifies all of us.

That is not the experience of the majority though, there are now 400,000 English people living in Scotland and they are very welcome. Many of these English residents have declared that they too will vote for Independence. Why? Because by living here they can see the reality of political life in the UK, Westminster has gathered too much power unto itself for too long, and even now grudgingly gives a little back.

MAJIC earlier made a high offensive comment about England supporting Scotland for 300 years.........it's this type of disgraceful hyperbole that grates against many people.

Simply put.......we Scots fought and died alongside the English for centuries, and the Welsh, and the Irish. Our Boys are still dying alongside our English compatriots in Afghanistan. Scotland has held it's own and much more over the centuries we have been allied with England and the other nations of the United Kingdom, in fact we have punched well, well above our weight.

However some people are far too bigoted to understand that, and far too ignorant to study history. While we have a cabal, and it looks like a growing cabal, of people of that ilk, entering the discourse, and all we will generate is heat and noise.

This thread is a prime example......it's brain damage.

.

To your 400,000 English living in Scotland, by comparison there are 795,000 Scots living in England,and no doubt after all the Ballyhoo has been dealt with,they will also be welcome,to live in England.

And Blether please don't try and make my remark concerning supporting Scotland into something other than: living together and being supportive,of.

Be accurate in your use of the English language then eh?

ps The English make up about 8% of our population, the Scots make up about 1.5% of the population of England.

Edited November 8, 2012 by theblether

[nontabury]

I missed the part where Alex Salmond requested the second question......can you point me in that direction please? Not newspaper speculation, just the link to any official government body that can confirm the second question was requested. This is a genuine request, I'm not trying to be smart.

DC knows he's walking into a trap........and all you guys that are moaning about 16 and 17 year old's getting the vote, wake up and smell the coffee. These kids can legally marry blah blah, and we should involve them in every aspect of British politics, the adults in the country are abandoning democracy in their droves, the voting turnout is terrible going on abysmal.

I personally think that if you are old enough to marry then you are old enough to vote, no doubt some sour old codgers won't agree with that, but amusingly they are the same sour old codgers that don't vote anyway.

Just sayin'

If I was going to trial letting schoolchildren vote, I'd not start with a vote for the survival of the country.

SC

Why? if they are old enough to marry, they are old enough to vote. This is the snobbery of advanced years coming out, as far as I'm concerned they should be voting in every election.

At least they'll actually turn up to vote unlike the rest of the lazy bast*ds that like to talk a good game.

We should be encouraging youngsters to take part in our democracy, not ridiculing them.

Your wrong again,the younger generation tend not to vote,in the same numbers as the older generation,they obviously have other interest,music,fashion etc next you'll be telling us they have more experience of life.

http://blogs.Ise.ac....ate-disengaged/

3rd graph down is great for the 1964-2005 trend.

[theblether]

I missed the part where Alex Salmond requested the second question......can you point me in that direction please? Not newspaper speculation, just the link to any official government body that can confirm the second question was requested. This is a genuine request, I'm not trying to be smart.

DC knows he's walking into a trap........and all you guys that are moaning about 16 and 17 year old's getting the vote, wake up and smell the coffee. These kids can legally marry blah blah, and we should involve them in every aspect of British politics, the adults in the country are abandoning democracy in their droves, the voting turnout is terrible going on abysmal.

I personally think that if you are old enough to marry then you are old enough to vote, no doubt some sour old codgers won't agree with that, but amusingly they are the same sour old codgers that don't vote anyway.

Just sayin'

If I was going to trial letting schoolchildren vote, I'd not start with a vote for the survival of the country.

SC

Why? if they are old enough to marry, they are old enough to vote. This is the snobbery of advanced years coming out, as far as I'm concerned they should be voting in every election.

At least they'll actually turn up to vote unlike the rest of the lazy bast*ds that like to talk a good game.

We should be encouraging youngsters to take part in our democracy, not ridiculing them.

Your wrong again,the younger generation tend not to vote,in the same numbers as the older generation,they obviously have other interest,music,fashion etc next you'll be telling us they have more experience of life.

http://blogs.Ise.ac....ate-disengaged/

3rd graph down is great for the 1964-2005 trend.

Go get the graph for the average turnout at elections since 1960.

[endure]

I think it's time you all calmed down please.

[endure]

OK that's enough.There'll be no demanding of anything. Stop the bickering now.

[smokie36]

Can I suggest both of you cool it a bit here as the rest of the posters here don't want to see this closed.

Leave the military stuff alone for the moment. Its an interesting discussion....let's keep it a debate of the subject matter eh?

[Rob8891]

I have read through the whole of this thread, post by post {yawn} and would have posted sooner, but was playing catch-up.

I am disgusted with the level of bigotry shown towards Scotland, especially in the earlier posts which were little short of rabid. What possible gain is there to behave like that?

I was born in England, but after years of working there, I made the conscious decision to leave and live in Scotland, where my mother's side of the family were from. Why? Because of bigotry in London and the SE: I am sad to see little has changed in the past 30-40 years, (not that anything would ever induce me to go back). Someone (can't remember who) talked of the anti-English sentiment expressed in Scotland. Hardly surprising (although I do not condone it).... take a dog and beat it with a stick for long enough, and sooner or later it will turn and snap at you.

I happily stand on the side of voting YES to independence, although I too have never believed that we would achieve it (at least in my life-time). The 2014 referendum is an important step on the way in our evolution (or better, re-birth) as a nation: no one should doubt that. The fact that 16 year olds are going to be allowed to vote is no bad idea either. The education system has done a lot to prepare our youngsters, probably better than many of the adult electorate, and I am sure that many will make a positive contribution to the eventual outcome. However, I am equally sure that the doom and gloom merchants will be trying to highlight any young person who dares to spoil a ballot paper...... (not that any "grown up" would do such a thing, of course).

The over-riding impression built up while reading this thread is of a disparate (and desperate) group of nay-sayers trying to justify their objection to Scotland having the freedom to choose its own destiny, but who only really managed to come up with derisory comments. Not much of a reasoned argument, is it?

[smokie36]

What they fail to realise Rob is that Scotland will survive. People will not starve or be living in caves. Its the English trying to tell us how superior their culture is.

Most amusing that is!

Edited November 8, 2012 by smokie36