Corrupt Pheu Thai Govt Should Be Ousted, Pitak Siam Leader Says

[smutcakes]

A coup is the worst thing that could ever happen. PTP need to be left alone, they will fall, but their fall when it happens, and it will, has to be at the ballot booth. That maybe uncomfortable reading for many, but for the term of this government (and the next which will be PTP led as well), coups need to be kept out of the picture. irrespective of how bad the governace is perceived as by some. The absence of coups will all the democratic process to mature, and that means voters will mature in their choices.

A coup will extend the life of the Us vs the elite argument which is the backbone of mch of the 'red' PTP ideology. That ideology in part needs a coup to maintain its validity

It won't happen at the ballot boot, because PTP will just pay the 300-500 Baht per vote like every time and as poorer the people get as cheaper it will be.

Also Thaksin tried to started to make laws for full scale fraud....rubber stamps, smaller boots so it can be checked who what for what party and transport of the cards per taxi without anyone check if the content will be replaced.

So it is basically impossible that they loose. And if they do, you have a Dems lead coalition with all the corrupt coalition partners, so you can bet they won't make any new hard anti-corruption laws.

So there is no reasonable way out of it.....That's the reason why people think about unreasonable ways.

As you point out corruption is not simply going to go away should the Dems and their coalitions get into power, but you can be sure as hell it would not be cleaned up after a coup as well, the army Generals are just as corrupt as the politicans. They have had many attempts before, after coups but they have never changed anything.

The only way to change is as other people have pointed out- at the ballot box. Let the current Government dig a hold for themsleves. Changing it by force or through non regular channels will never help in the long term. Even if it could take a while for people to realize, eventually when it affects enough of them, the ballot boxes will show it.

[GentlemanJim]

A coup is the worst thing that could ever happen. PTP need to be left alone, they will fall, but their fall when it happens, and it will, has to be at the ballot booth.

That maybe uncomfortable reading for many, but for the term of this government (and the next which will be PTP led as well), coups need to be kept out of the picture. irrespective of how bad the governace is perceived as by some. The absence of coups will all the democratic process to mature, and that means voters will mature in their choices. A coup will extend the life of the Us vs the elite argument which is the backbone of mch of the 'red' PTP ideology. That ideology in part needs a coup to maintain its validity

By which time PTP will have completely emptied the treasury coffers and created enough national debt to keep the next generation of Thais paying for it for years. Still look on the bright side, they are taking so much money out of the treasury that at the next election they will be paying 2000 baht per vote for those up north. Jobs a good un! Let the tanks role I say, and leave the coup established until this bunch of crooks have turned decrepit or died out and then get some honest young intelligent ambitious people in. Thailand will have a future then!

[webfact]

Pitak Siam group to stage anti-government mass rally on Sunday

BANGKOK, Oct 24 -- Pitak Siam or Protecting Siam, led by retired Gen Boonlert Kaewprasit, will organise an anti-government mass rally at the Royal Turf Club in Bangkok’s Nang Lerng on Sunday.

Gen Boonlert, chairman of Pitak Siam group, said that the rally would welcome all parties, be they yellow or red shirts. The rally would be a gathering of patriots and people loyal to the monarchy without backing from any political party.

The retired army general said the government has failed in governing the country with corruption rampant in various projects. He would unveil evidence supporting his claim.

If the government is allowed to continue, it could inflict further damage on the country, he said.

Gen Boonlert, a classmate of former prime minister Gen Surayud Chulanont at the Armed Forces Academies Preparatory School (AFAPS), admitted that a coup was discussed among his group as many sections could not tolerate how the government is running the country.

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubamrung said that he would meet Gen Boonlert today for a private talk but would not discuss politics.

Pol Capt Chalerm said that he believed the upcoming Sunday rally would be peaceful and he has ordered police to facilitate the gathering.

Pheu Thai list-MP and red-shirt co-leader Korkaew Pikulthong claimed that red shirt supporters in the North and Northeast were lured by groups of people to join the upcoming rally in exchange for Bt300-500 in cash.

He urged supporters of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), or red shirts, to refrain from joining the rally. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-10-24

[siampolee]

Pheu Thai list-MP and red-shirt co-leader Korkaew Pikulthong claimed that red shirt supporters in the North and Northeast were lured by groups of people to join the upcoming rally in exchange for Bt300-500 in cash.

Well it was Thaksin and the Red Shirt leadership that started or rather perfected the patronage system.as so plainly shown on you-tube.

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery Korkaew Pikulthong, your group has started a new tradition and have inserted another quaint custom into Thai Culture.

Edited October 24, 2012 by siampolee

[jonclark]

A coup is the worst thing that could ever happen. PTP need to be left alone, they will fall, but their fall when it happens, and it will, has to be at the ballot booth.

That maybe uncomfortable reading for many, but for the term of this government (and the next which will be PTP led as well), coups need to be kept out of the picture. irrespective of how bad the governace is perceived as by some. The absence of coups will all the democratic process to mature, and that means voters will mature in their choices. A coup will extend the life of the Us vs the elite argument which is the backbone of mch of the 'red' PTP ideology. That ideology in part needs a coup to maintain its validity

By which time PTP will have completely emptied the treasury coffers and created enough national debt to keep the next generation of Thais paying for it for years. Still look on the bright side, they are taking so much money out of the treasury that at the next election they will be paying 2000 baht per vote for those up north. Jobs a good un! Let the tanks role I say, and leave the coup established until this bunch of crooks have turned decrepit or died out and then get some honest young intelligent ambitious people in. Thailand will have a future then!

Yep Gentleman, you are right, the treasury will be empty, and debt most likely will be sky high at which point perhaps, just perhaps when the money dries up and the farmers start protesting and there is no money left to buy rice etc. That will act a a trigger for change.

A coup will solve nothing, other than reinvigorate the UDD, who will cry 'look what the bastards have done, taken away our government leaders again, etc.etc. and start the cycle all over again'. PTP is the largest political party in Thailand - for good or bad. So let it be, let them govern, let them implement their policies unhindered, this means the dems keep quiet and get on with their own strategy of getting back into helping people at a grass roots level. So when they fall, when the losses are so great, they fall hard and there are no other excuses other than PTP failure for their removal from office.

Yes, i will be a very bitter pill for the average person to swallow and they will pay the price, but they voted for these policies. Perhaps the shock of the failure of such blatantly myopic, populist and unsustainable policies and promises will make them wiser in future elections and more thoughtful in future elections. The electorate needs time to mature in parallel to the democratic system.

The fact there have been more coups than elections explains why Thailand's democratic system is so weak, it simple hasn't been given time to go through the growing pains and mature as it experiences success and failure and beds in.

I'd love the current bunch to be removed, but they won't be, so in the mean time invest wisely, have a contingency plan and watch the theater as it unfolds.

[h90]

A coup is the worst thing that could ever happen. PTP need to be left alone, they will fall, but their fall when it happens, and it will, has to be at the ballot booth. That maybe uncomfortable reading for many, but for the term of this government (and the next which will be PTP led as well), coups need to be kept out of the picture. irrespective of how bad the governace is perceived as by some. The absence of coups will all the democratic process to mature, and that means voters will mature in their choices.

A coup will extend the life of the Us vs the elite argument which is the backbone of mch of the 'red' PTP ideology. That ideology in part needs a coup to maintain its validity

It won't happen at the ballot boot, because PTP will just pay the 300-500 Baht per vote like every time and as poorer the people get as cheaper it will be.

Also Thaksin tried to started to make laws for full scale fraud....rubber stamps, smaller boots so it can be checked who what for what party and transport of the cards per taxi without anyone check if the content will be replaced.

So it is basically impossible that they loose. And if they do, you have a Dems lead coalition with all the corrupt coalition partners, so you can bet they won't make any new hard anti-corruption laws.

So there is no reasonable way out of it.....That's the reason why people think about unreasonable ways.

As you point out corruption is not simply going to go away should the Dems and their coalitions get into power, but you can be sure as hell it would not be cleaned up after a coup as well, the army Generals are just as corrupt as the politicans. They have had many attempts before, after coups but they have never changed anything.

The only way to change is as other people have pointed out- at the ballot box. Let the current Government dig a hold for themsleves. Changing it by force or through non regular channels will never help in the long term. Even if it could take a while for people to realize, eventually when it affects enough of them, the ballot boxes will show it.

Well after the last coup the government was pretty clean and they changed a lot laws to make corruption more difficult. And they got Thaksin on one case. So something has changed. Just it wasn't enough. The changes weren't strong enough.

Ballot Box without fair elections and corrupt Election Commission can't change anything. Or do you think you can change North Korea at the ballot box? They also have elections there.

[MunterHunter]

Wonder which government in Thai history is not corrupted....

So by that rationale, its ok for all Thai Governments to be corrupt then...? Cos every previous government was corrupt?

Yes, i will be a very bitter pill for the average person to swallow and they will pay the price, but they voted for these policies.

This shouldn't come as a shock to you but no, most actually voted for 500b

[jonclark]

This shouldn't come as a shock to you but no, most actually voted for 500b

Hopefully they all feel they got value for money then

[OzMick]

I am informed that the Chalerm/Boonlert conversation was quite concise:

Chalerm: "How much?"

Boonlert: "XXXX off!"

Hopefully, this is the start of a trend.

Edited October 24, 2012 by metisdead

[kirk0233]

"The government's fate will not hinge on opponents or critics but on its own misjudgement by refusing to be held accountable for corruption."

If only ... never going to happen ... unless there is another coup. The sooner the better as the people who vote for the red govt have little knowledge of what is really going on, only what they are fed by the spin doctors and the Dems don't have the PR machine working to counter the spin doctors. There does not seem to be any other way unfortunately and that could well lead to civil unrest.

Well the PTP voter also got paid for their votes what makes the complete election undemocratic. And the Dems not only missing the PR machine, Abhisit was real weak when he was premier. He made a few real good things, but his whining all the time when the red demonstrations were and his aggression against the PAD in the hope it will please the reds was coward....

So the only reason to vote for the Dems was that they aren't the PTP.

In fact a army coup is the only way out. But I remember the last one. If they don't have a plan what the want to do after the gained power, than they should better not do it.

A coup d'etat is certainly one of the worst thing that could happen. How is an undemocratic solution to perceived government ineffectiveness good for democracy? If Thais are not happy with their government then they should vote them out. Not difficult at all and does not require an army.

[Theoutsider]

It will not work for them unless they get rid of half the population while they are at it.

They will just take back to the street's again.

Time for some re-education 2+2.

[h90]

"The government's fate will not hinge on opponents or critics but on its own misjudgement by refusing to be held accountable for corruption."

If only ... never going to happen ... unless there is another coup. The sooner the better as the people who vote for the red govt have little knowledge of what is really going on, only what they are fed by the spin doctors and the Dems don't have the PR machine working to counter the spin doctors. There does not seem to be any other way unfortunately and that could well lead to civil unrest.

Well the PTP voter also got paid for their votes what makes the complete election undemocratic. And the Dems not only missing the PR machine, Abhisit was real weak when he was premier. He made a few real good things, but his whining all the time when the red demonstrations were and his aggression against the PAD in the hope it will please the reds was coward....

So the only reason to vote for the Dems was that they aren't the PTP.

In fact a army coup is the only way out. But I remember the last one. If they don't have a plan what the want to do after the gained power, than they should better not do it.

A coup d'etat is certainly one of the worst thing that could happen. How is an undemocratic solution to perceived government ineffectiveness good for democracy? If Thais are not happy with their government then they should vote them out. Not difficult at all and does not require an army.

How is it the worst thing? Why?

Democracy is a method to find the best leader for the country. If some corrupt mafiosi buy their way to power by vote buying than a military coup is more or less the only way to get rid of them. Vote buying, checking what people voted and thugs that don't let other parties campaign means the Democracy goes straight to the Democracy ala North Korea.

Or tell me, if the military in North Korea would stage a coup, make a new constitution and prepare the country for democratic elections, would you say that is the worst thing that could happen and the North Korean should vote their goverment out instead?

[Rich teacher]

Gen Boonlert should be thrown in jail for proposing a military coup.

[scorecard]

Gen Boonlert should be thrown in jail for proposing a military coup.

Under what law?

[Rich teacher]

Is promoting an illegal, unconstitutional act not a crime?

[KarenBravo]

When well over 50% of Thai people don't mind corruption as long as it benefits them, there is no hope.

[kirk0233]

"The government's fate will not hinge on opponents or critics but on its own misjudgement by refusing to be held accountable for corruption."

If only ... never going to happen ... unless there is another coup. The sooner the better as the people who vote for the red govt have little knowledge of what is really going on, only what they are fed by the spin doctors and the Dems don't have the PR machine working to counter the spin doctors. There does not seem to be any other way unfortunately and that could well lead to civil unrest.

Well the PTP voter also got paid for their votes what makes the complete election undemocratic. And the Dems not only missing the PR machine, Abhisit was real weak when he was premier. He made a few real good things, but his whining all the time when the red demonstrations were and his aggression against the PAD in the hope it will please the reds was coward....

So the only reason to vote for the Dems was that they aren't the PTP.

In fact a army coup is the only way out. But I remember the last one. If they don't have a plan what the want to do after the gained power, than they should better not do it.

A coup d'etat is certainly one of the worst thing that could happen. How is an undemocratic solution to perceived government ineffectiveness good for democracy? If Thais are not happy with their government then they should vote them out. Not difficult at all and does not require an army.

How is it the worst thing? Why?

Democracy is a method to find the best leader for the country. If some corrupt mafiosi buy their way to power by vote buying than a military coup is more or less the only way to get rid of them. Vote buying, checking what people voted and thugs that don't let other parties campaign means the Democracy goes straight to the Democracy ala North Korea.

Or tell me, if the military in North Korea would stage a coup, make a new constitution and prepare the country for democratic elections, would you say that is the worst thing that could happen and the North Korean should vote their goverment out instead?

Do you know for sure if the military staged a coup in Thailand that they would prepare the country for a nice democracy? If a coup is the default response for any instance of vote buying or corruption why not just have a military dictatorship? But what we would do if the military is corrupt? I believe that Thailand has to grow as a democracy and although it may be painful for the country at times, it is far better than a military junta deciding the nature of the constitution. By the way, when military in Thailand intervened in the past it was not just out of love for the country and hatred of corruption.

[OZEMADE]

When well over 50% of Thai people don't mind corruption as long as it benefits them, there is no hope.

And that is why the Topic and the info is all PUFF & WIND.

He got nothing from anyone who was corrupt, absolutely nothing. So the best thing he can come up with is, lets have another COUP.

The man should be in the mental asylum. He cares about no one, except himself.

[dcutman]

God help this country if this government does not get taken out before the next election. The PT will be elected again, (pay more per vote) with bigger promises to make everybody rich.

I do believe there is a long term picture being painted by Thaksin and her sister and it has nothing to do developing this country or becoming a democracy. If that is even possible.

[h90]

Do you know for sure if the military staged a coup in Thailand that they would prepare the country for a nice democracy? If a coup is the default response for any instance of vote buying or corruption why not just have a military dictatorship? But what we would do if the military is corrupt? I believe that Thailand has to grow as a democracy and although it may be painful for the country at times, it is far better than a military junta deciding the nature of the constitution. By the way, when military in Thailand intervened in the past it was not just out of love for the country and hatred of corruption.

The last time at least they tried to prepare the country for a nice democracy. And the Surayud "military dictatorship" was actually the most reasonable government Thailand had for the last 10 or 12 years. As well the constitution now is from the military and it isn't bad.

And what do you think how long will be this painful time? 200 years or 500 years?

It doesn't work in USA or Europe at the moment.....how shall it work in Thailand.

[Theoutsider]

God help this country if this government does not get taken out before the next election. The PT will be elected again, (pay more per vote) with bigger promises to make everybody rich.

I do believe there is a long term picture being painted by Thaksin and her sister and it has nothing to do developing this country or becoming a democracy. If that is even possible.

God:)

We all know Thaksin is playing the long game but . I can not say any more

[AleG]

When well over 50% of Thai people don't mind corruption as long as it benefits them, there is no hope.

There's the ugly truth, the coup "Reset Button" has the problem that resetting goes back to the starting point, a population that it's OK with corruption. Rinse, repeat.

What Thailand needs is not a reset, it's a step forward.

[smutcakes]

"The government's fate will not hinge on opponents or critics but on its own misjudgement by refusing to be held accountable for corruption."

If only ... never going to happen ... unless there is another coup. The sooner the better as the people who vote for the red govt have little knowledge of what is really going on, only what they are fed by the spin doctors and the Dems don't have the PR machine working to counter the spin doctors. There does not seem to be any other way unfortunately and that could well lead to civil unrest.

Well the PTP voter also got paid for their votes what makes the complete election undemocratic. And the Dems not only missing the PR machine, Abhisit was real weak when he was premier. He made a few real good things, but his whining all the time when the red demonstrations were and his aggression against the PAD in the hope it will please the reds was coward....

So the only reason to vote for the Dems was that they aren't the PTP.

In fact a army coup is the only way out. But I remember the last one. If they don't have a plan what the want to do after the gained power, than they should better not do it.

A coup d'etat is certainly one of the worst thing that could happen. How is an undemocratic solution to perceived government ineffectiveness good for democracy? If Thais are not happy with their government then they should vote them out. Not difficult at all and does not require an army.

How is it the worst thing? Why?

Democracy is a method to find the best leader for the country. If some corrupt mafiosi buy their way to power by vote buying than a military coup is more or less the only way to get rid of them. Vote buying, checking what people voted and thugs that don't let other parties campaign means the Democracy goes straight to the Democracy ala North Korea.

Or tell me, if the military in North Korea would stage a coup, make a new constitution and prepare the country for democratic elections, would you say that is the worst thing that could happen and the North Korean should vote their goverment out instead?

So who makes the decision who is the best leader for the country? One person in the army? What is your solution to the problem? baring in mind that pretty much all people in the upper echeleons of the army appear corrupt as well.

[EvilDrSomkid]

I can't believe this. People are openly advocating a military coup. Advocating a coup could be construed as treason.

This has nothing to do with protecting the monarchy. The Yingluck government have not touched article 112.

They have made no official moves against the monarchy, either. This general is just disingenuously using this pretext.

As much as I detest what the current "regime" is doing, a coup will achieve nothing.

And yes, it is against the law. Can't quote which article, but I find it highly unlikely that there is no law against it.

And the population knows it. Do we want spring 2010 all over again? No.

It will kill our business, for sure.

Edited October 24, 2012 by EvilDrSomkid

[EvilDrSomkid]

Here's a nice image

[h90]

So who makes the decision who is the best leader for the country? One person in the army? What is your solution to the problem? baring in mind that pretty much all people in the upper echeleons of the army appear corrupt as well.

Yes that is a weak point. Therefore such extreme ideas come only up when the government is that bad, that almost anyone, corrupt or not corrupt is an improvement.

Don't misunderstand me: I really don't like military dictatorships. Only when the politic is getting that bad that the country get long time problems, like decades with a lot people dieing than I think such extreme measures like a coup would be justified.

[yoshiwara]

'Meanwhile, Pheu Thai MP Korkaew Pikulthong said he had been told some organisers tried to lure red shirts from the Northeast to join the rally. They offered to pay Bt300-Bt500 each for transport costs, he said.'

Now that is an amusing complaint.

[yoshiwara]

Pitak Siam look to me to be a dead end and about as politically useful as the Yellows who called for a boycott of the last election. ie not at all.

[Noistar]

The only thing that will take this country forward is education. A coup will just complete the circle, and then it all starts again without anything being fixed.

Exactly.

Another coup, ever, in this country would be very ill advised. It would once again infuriate the grass roots supporters of the current government and spark "protests" and riots. The PTP voters would have legitimate grievances against again having their votes invalidated.

The only way to remove the current kleptocracy, is to remove it by democratic and legal means. Unfortunately, the PTP have a majority in Parliament, so a vote of no confidence is out. Then, there is Chalerm (and others) who will intimidate by any means the judiciary to prevent any impeachment motions brought in.

Any opposition would have to bring concrete evidence to the EC or other court with power to show that the country is being robbed blind.

However, if the PTP government falls, what's next? Another election. Who will win that? Yep, same people.

Result: Same shit, different day.

There are already too many Shin clan members in key positions.

But the fact it is a continuing circle is the whole point.

The same ruling party gets elected by an electorate who seem to lose interest as soon as they've cast their vote.

The subsequent actions of the elected ruling party, eventually lead to their own downfall.

The common element in this circle is a ruling party which puts itself before country

Is it any surprise they are held to account?

[EvilDrSomkid]

The only thing that will take this country forward is education. A coup will just complete the circle, and then it all starts again without anything being fixed.

Exactly.

Another coup, ever, in this country would be very ill advised. It would once again infuriate the grass roots supporters of the current government and spark "protests" and riots. The PTP voters would have legitimate grievances against again having their votes invalidated.

The only way to remove the current kleptocracy, is to remove it by democratic and legal means. Unfortunately, the PTP have a majority in Parliament, so a vote of no confidence is out. Then, there is Chalerm (and others) who will intimidate by any means the judiciary to prevent any impeachment motions brought in.

Any opposition would have to bring concrete evidence to the EC or other court with power to show that the country is being robbed blind.

However, if the PTP government falls, what's next? Another election. Who will win that? Yep, same people.

Result: Same shit, different day.

There are already too many Shin clan members in key positions.

But the fact it is a continuing circle is the whole point.

The same ruling party gets elected by an electorate who seem to lose interest as soon as they've cast their vote.

The subsequent actions of the elected ruling party, eventually lead to their own downfall.

The common element in this circle is a ruling party which puts itself before country

Is it any surprise they are held to account?

That's just the problem. There is no downfall and they are not held to account.

No one dares.

Or maybe we have yet to see it.

The saddest part is that there are no good alternatives.