Corrupt Pheu Thai Govt Should Be Ousted, Pitak Siam Leader Says

[OzMick]

Pitak Siam look to me to be a dead end and about as politically useful as the Yellows who called for a boycott of the last election. ie not at all.

They do have one use - they are highlighting the fact that this government is so corrupt for SOME people to desire a coup to be rid of them. Public awareness of the level of corruption cannot be a bad thing even if you reject the call for a coup, because you certainly aren't going to hear about it on red TV/press coverage.

If it makes the major news channel, at least more people will be aware of what others perceive.

[TruthEyes]

Well its very clear from the comments that none of the established usual suspects are deemed fit for governance.

So, why not break from this usual tradition and try something different, something radical

Let the Redshirts have a go, on the basis of this thread they could't do any worse

[yoshiwara]

Well its very clear from the comments that none of the established usual suspects are deemed fit for governance.

So, why not break from this usual tradition and try something different, something radical

Let the Redshirts have a go, on the basis of this thread they could't do any worse

Jatuporn, you and Thida would make a great team.

Edited October 24, 2012 by yoshiwara

[Noistar]

How is it the worst thing? Why?

Democracy is a method to find the best leader for the country. If some corrupt mafiosi buy their way to power by vote buying than a military coup is more or less the only way to get rid of them. Vote buying, checking what people voted and thugs that don't let other parties campaign means the Democracy goes straight to the Democracy ala North Korea.

Or tell me, if the military in North Korea would stage a coup, make a new constitution and prepare the country for democratic elections, would you say that is the worst thing that could happen and the North Korean should vote their goverment out instead?

So who makes the decision who is the best leader for the country? One person in the army? What is your solution to the problem? baring in mind that pretty much all people in the upper echeleons of the army appear corrupt as well.

I don't think 'one person in the army' determines who is the best leader. The army have taken action against leaders who are perceived to be destroying Thailand.

Identifying and dealing with the leader causing the problem seems logical.

The fact is, the majority of the Thai electorate seem unable to see a national picture.

this will ensure the cycle of "we were promised we'd be better off, the big bad army took our sugar-daddy away".

Let the North of the country (funny how it's always the North), be the Red stronghold where the freedoms and rule of law are removed, and let the rest of the country continue with true Democracy.

But we can't have that - the South is the money box with the big bad ammarts.

[OzMick]

Well its very clear from the comments that none of the established usual suspects are deemed fit for governance.

So, why not break from this usual tradition and try something different, something radical

Let the Redshirts have a go, on the basis of this thread they could't do any worse

The only analogy that comes to mind is concentration camp inmates voting to get rid of the guards and letting the attack dogs run the place.

[asiawatcher]

"The government's fate will not hinge on opponents or critics but on its own misjudgement by refusing to be held accountable for corruption."

If only ... never going to happen ... unless there is another coup. The sooner the better as the people who vote for the red govt have little knowledge of what is really going on, only what they are fed by the spin doctors and the Dems don't have the PR machine working to counter the spin doctors. There does not seem to be any other way unfortunately and that could well lead to civil unrest.

Well the PTP voter also got paid for their votes what makes the complete election undemocratic. And the Dems not only missing the PR machine, Abhisit was real weak when he was premier. He made a few real good things, but his whining all the time when the red demonstrations were and his aggression against the PAD in the hope it will please the reds was coward....

So the only reason to vote for the Dems was that they aren't the PTP.

In fact a army coup is the only way out. But I remember the last one. If they don't have a plan what the want to do after the gained power, than they should better not do it.

I guess if there was a way for the Army to empower professional international management the coup would be viable but that wil never happen - too much loss of face. But agree - there is not one political party in Thailand who can do the job and their only motivation to be in politics is greed, nothing whatsoever about Thailand or its people.

[KarenBravo]

Let the North of the country (funny how it's always the North), be the Red stronghold where the freedoms and rule of law are removed, and let the rest of the country continue with true Democracy.

How naive to think that there is "true democracy" under the democrats. Thanks for the laugh, anyway.

[MunterHunter]

How naive to think that there is "true democracy" under the democrats. Thanks for the laugh, anyway.

Cos true democracy exists under the PTP Administration, right?

Those laughs keep coming

[Ricardo]

Here's a nice image

I believe that 2012 was a good year for 'ear medicine' ?

[Mosha]

Gen Boonlert should be thrown in jail for proposing a military coup.

Yet a guy can sit in parliament after telling people to burn down Bangkok.

[Mosha]

Well its very clear from the comments that none of the established usual suspects are deemed fit for governance.

So, why not break from this usual tradition and try something different, something radical

Let the Redshirts have a go, on the basis of this thread they could't do any worse

I thought they were already having a go.

[KarenBravo]

How naive to think that there is "true democracy" under the democrats. Thanks for the laugh, anyway.

Cos true democracy exists under the PTP Administration, right?

Those laughs keep coming

I never said that. My point is that BOTH parties are as corrupt as each other and as undemocratic as each other with vote buying on both sides.

Democrats represent the status quo whereby the rich continue to control the poor. One law for the rich and one for the poor. Continue with the feudal society that has served the old elite so well.

The reds really aren't any better, but, at least they have awoken in the masses that they do have power at the ballot box. Frankly, change; any change has to be better than the status quo.

[MunterHunter]

I never said that. My point is that BOTH parties are as corrupt as each other and as undemocratic as each other with vote buying on both sides.

Democrats represent the status quo whereby the rich continue to control the poor. One law for the rich and one for the poor. Continue with the feudal society that has served the old elite so well.

The reds really aren't any better, but, at least they have awoken in the masses that they do have power at the ballot box. Frankly, change; any change has to be better than the status quo.

The Shinawatra clan represent the very thing that the reds/PTP are supposed to stand against... the Very Rich and Powerful controlling the poor...

The difference between the PTP and the Democrats is, as far as i can tell, the democrats did not engage in a widespread campaign to leech every last satang out of the countries coffers as possible... with a possible dash of 'lets whitewash the crimes of our Dear Leader at the same time'

and the whole Democratic argument is invalid once you realise that votes are bought.

Bring on the coup i say... ban anyone who is currently holding a political position (both sides, not just the reds)... clean up the police force, the political benches and start again with a fresh clean set of people... a dream i know, as it will never happen.

[KarenBravo]

Bring on the coup i say... ban anyone who is currently holding a political position (both sides, not just the reds)... clean up the police force, the political benches and start again with a fresh clean set of people... a dream i know, as it will never happen.

.......and while your at it, why not cure the world of all known diseases and bring about world peace.

[Nickymaster]

Here's a nice image

Chalerm is the type of guy who would XXXX you with a smile!

Edited October 25, 2012 by metisdead

[whybother]

I never said that. My point is that BOTH parties are as corrupt as each other and as undemocratic as each other with vote buying on both sides.

Democrats represent the status quo whereby the rich continue to control the poor. One law for the rich and one for the poor. Continue with the feudal society that has served the old elite so well.

The reds really aren't any better, but, at least they have awoken in the masses that they do have power at the ballot box. Frankly, change; any change has to be better than the status quo.

What are they changing to? How much has changed in 10 of 12 years of Thaksin proxy governments? The North and North East is still a feudal society that the continues to serve the old RED elite so well. That is how Thaksin has managed to keep control of the area.

[KarenBravo]

Personally, I think this country would benefit from 10 years of communism.

[KarenBravo]

Does anyone think Thaksin could have got the monopolies, first to supply computers to all police districts and then a mobile phone network without the connivance, a nod and a wink from the government of that time?

Which party was in power then? Yup....you guessed it. The Democrats indirectly created Thaksin and are now reaping what they sowed.

[h90]

Does anyone think Thaksin could have got the monopolies, first to supply computers to all police districts and then a mobile phone network without the connivance, a nod and a wink from the government of that time?

Which party was in power then? Yup....you guessed it. The Democrats indirectly created Thaksin and are now reaping what they sowed.

He got the mobile phone license from a General after a military coup. But can't recall the details.

The computer thing I don't know, just recalled 2003 or 2004 visiting an immigration office and it was just full....on every table was a network printer....Of course everything was the same paperwork and the computer were only turned on for playing games....

[h90]

Just got told that almost all of my staff is joining the demonstrations.

[Noistar]

Let the North of the country (funny how it's always the North), be the Red stronghold where the freedoms and rule of law are removed, and let the rest of the country continue with true Democracy.

How naive to think that there is "true democracy" under the democrats. Thanks for the laugh, anyway.

The point I was trying to make was that the current ruling party is not interested in governing democratically.

If anti-Democrat party posters want to consider that criticism of the ruling party is a mark of support for the Democrat party, perhaps they need to be less simplistic.

[siampolee]

h90.

It would be interesting to hear their comments when they return to work, perhaps if you have time to canvass your staff and perhaps be able to pass on to the forum their take n the matter, we would all be interested to hear from eye witnesses.

Facts as opposed to suppositions we get from Jutuporn and his fellow born again liars..

[siampolee]

Dug this up as a reminder of Thaksin and his cronies skewed views on democracy.

PM'S DECLARATION:'Democracy is not my goal'

Thaksin suggests he'll block any move for amendments to rein in his power

BANGKOK: Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday revealed for the first time the value he places on democracy, saying it was not the foremost thing Thailand needed.

In a candid statement made ominous by its release on Constitution Day, Thaksin said that as long as the country could progress and the people were happy, he was not concerned about the means used.

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

In a comment to counter calls for constitutional amend- ments that would support the sputtering checks-and-balances mechanism, the prime minister hinted that he would block the campaign to amend the charter, an issue that could cause a fall-out between him and his Chat Thai Party allies.

"Democracy is a vehicle," Thaksin said. "We can't drive a Rolls-Royce to a rural village and solve people's problems. A pickup truck or good off-road car will do. We just need to think carefully and make the right choices."

Amid threats of total domination by the ruling Thai Rak Thai Party, the minor coalition partner, academics and opposition MPs agree there is an urgent need to sharpen the teeth of independent constitutional bodies and empower a parliamentary system of checks and balances.

"I don't think there's a need to amend the charter right now," said Thaksin. "Maybe they want to because they want to censure me in Parliament."

Many rules within the Constitution are said to be playing into the hands of Thaksin as they seem to ease his on-going consolidation of power and expansionist philosophy. Among them is the requirement that a censure motion against the prime minister has to be signed by at least 200 MPs.

Before leaving for the Asean-Japan summit in Tokyo, Thaksin avoided actually naming the Chat Thai Party, which has proposed a public referendum to amend the Constitution coinciding with the 2005 general election.

"If they really want to do it for good reasons, why didn't they do it earlier when they had enough support in Parliament?" Thaksin said. "There's no real need to change the highest law at the moment. If we do have implementation problems, we can review the Constitution's organic laws."

The Chat Thai Party has set up a working group to review the Constitution. But the study could take a long time, its leader Banharn Silapa-archa confirmed yesterday, at the risk of upsetting his powerful ally.

"We are reviewing both the charter and organic laws, as we think that it's time to amend the Constitution," said Banharn. "But I can't say whether we can finish in time for the next election."

Chat Thai leaders have said the charter has failed to produce an adequate system of checks and balances in the political system, as a single party dominates Parliament and many independent constitutional bodies.

Once lauded as one of the best constitutions the country has had, the 1997 charter is seen by a growing number of critics as having failed to cope with the realities of Thai politics in the era of Thaksin's political and business empire.

Chat Thai wants all political parties represented when selecting members of key independent bodies, which have been under growing influence of Thai Rak Thai.

Snoh Thienthong, leader of the Wang Nam Yen faction of Thai Rak Thai, also alluded to support for constitutional amendment and suggested Thaksin was the reason to review the charter.

"The prime minister's thoughts run faster than the Constitution, so it might be necessary to change the law to keep up with him. He's a commander who moves faster than his army," Snoh said.

Former Constitution Drafting Assembly members who wrote the existing charter have backed calls for amendment to bolster the checks-and-balances mechanism before it falls apart.

"When we made it a rule that the censure motion must be submitted by at least 200 MPs, we never envisaged any party would one day have the staggering influence of 400 MPs in Parliament," said Decho Sawananont, one of the charter-drafters. "This hampers the opposition's work and the future looks bleak."

--The Nation 2003-12-11

Edited October 25, 2012 by siampolee

[whybother]

Does anyone think Thaksin could have got the monopolies, first to supply computers to all police districts and then a mobile phone network without the connivance, a nod and a wink from the government of that time?

Which party was in power then? Yup....you guessed it. The Democrats indirectly created Thaksin and are now reaping what they sowed.

In 1989 he [Thaksin] launched IBC, a cable television company. At that time, Thaksin had a very good relationship with Chalerm Yoobumrung the Minister of the Prime Minister Office who was in charge of Thai press and media. It is a question that remains unanswered whether Chalerm granted the right to Thaksin to establish IBC just to benefit his close friend, seeing that this project had been denied by the previous administration but instantly accepted a very short period after Chalerm came to office.

Advance Info Service was given a monopoly contract by his [Thaksin's] contacts in the military in 1986 and operates under GSM 900 frequency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra#Business_career

Edited October 25, 2012 by whybother

[smutcakes]

I never said that. My point is that BOTH parties are as corrupt as each other and as undemocratic as each other with vote buying on both sides.

Democrats represent the status quo whereby the rich continue to control the poor. One law for the rich and one for the poor. Continue with the feudal society that has served the old elite so well.

The reds really aren't any better, but, at least they have awoken in the masses that they do have power at the ballot box. Frankly, change; any change has to be better than the status quo.

The Shinawatra clan represent the very thing that the reds/PTP are supposed to stand against... the Very Rich and Powerful controlling the poor...

The difference between the PTP and the Democrats is, as far as i can tell, the democrats did not engage in a widespread campaign to leech every last satang out of the countries coffers as possible... with a possible dash of 'lets whitewash the crimes of our Dear Leader at the same time'

and the whole Democratic argument is invalid once you realise that votes are bought.

Bring on the coup i say... ban anyone who is currently holding a political position (both sides, not just the reds)... clean up the police force, the political benches and start again with a fresh clean set of people... a dream i know, as it will never happen.

It wont happen because the top brass in the army are just as bent as most of the politicians- so really that makes even the option of a coup hardly a step forward. There are a few people advocating a coup, but no one has really addressed what the realistic step forward a coup would acheive, other than re-winding a few years and starting the cylce again, potentially even pushing more support Thaksin's way.

As much as it is unpalatable, there really is no viable option but to let the current Government do their thing, and if it all goes wrong, people will then start to change their vote etc It may be a hard lesson to learn, but long term i dont think there are any other viable options with the lack of honest non corrupt politicians knocking about. Those that are honest and try to make a difference, perhaps like Abhisit and Korn would soon be squashed should they threaten to stop the gravy train.

I dare say that most reporters etc who do seem to have some moral fibre and write freely about the issues, would also soon shut up should there views etc become more mainstream. I expect most of the reporters particulalry in the English language papers are there due to their education abroad which has been brought by their families benefiting from the political system. Blood is thicker than water after all, so I believe even those educated abroad and seem to know better, are doing little more than paying lip service to the eradication of corruption and making the society a little fairer for all.

[EvilDrSomkid]

Dug this up as a reminder of Thaksin and his cronies skewed views on democracy.

http://www.thaivisa....-is-not-my-goal

PM'S DECLARATION:'Democracy is not my goal'

Thaksin suggests he'll block any move for amendments to rein in his power

BANGKOK: Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday revealed for the first time the value he places on democracy, saying it was not the foremost thing Thailand needed.

In a candid statement made ominous by its release on Constitution Day, Thaksin said that as long as the country could progress and the people were happy, he was not concerned about the means used.

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

In a comment to counter calls for constitutional amend- ments that would support the sputtering checks-and-balances mechanism, the prime minister hinted that he would block the campaign to amend the charter, an issue that could cause a fall-out between him and his Chat Thai Party allies.

"Democracy is a vehicle," Thaksin said. "We can't drive a Rolls-Royce to a rural village and solve people's problems. A pickup truck or good off-road car will do. We just need to think carefully and make the right choices."

Amid threats of total domination by the ruling Thai Rak Thai Party, the minor coalition partner, academics and opposition MPs agree there is an urgent need to sharpen the teeth of independent constitutional bodies and empower a parliamentary system of checks and balances.

"I don't think there's a need to amend the charter right now," said Thaksin. "Maybe they want to because they want to censure me in Parliament."

Many rules within the Constitution are said to be playing into the hands of Thaksin as they seem to ease his on-going consolidation of power and expansionist philosophy. Among them is the requirement that a censure motion against the prime minister has to be signed by at least 200 MPs.

Before leaving for the Asean-Japan summit in Tokyo, Thaksin avoided actually naming the Chat Thai Party, which has proposed a public referendum to amend the Constitution coinciding with the 2005 general election.

"If they really want to do it for good reasons, why didn't they do it earlier when they had enough support in Parliament?" Thaksin said. "There's no real need to change the highest law at the moment. If we do have implementation problems, we can review the Constitution's organic laws."

The Chat Thai Party has set up a working group to review the Constitution. But the study could take a long time, its leader Banharn Silapa-archa confirmed yesterday, at the risk of upsetting his powerful ally.

"We are reviewing both the charter and organic laws, as we think that it's time to amend the Constitution," said Banharn. "But I can't say whether we can finish in time for the next election."

Chat Thai leaders have said the charter has failed to produce an adequate system of checks and balances in the political system, as a single party dominates Parliament and many independent constitutional bodies.

Once lauded as one of the best constitutions the country has had, the 1997 charter is seen by a growing number of critics as having failed to cope with the realities of Thai politics in the era of Thaksin's political and business empire.

Chat Thai wants all political parties represented when selecting members of key independent bodies, which have been under growing influence of Thai Rak Thai.

Snoh Thienthong, leader of the Wang Nam Yen faction of Thai Rak Thai, also alluded to support for constitutional amendment and suggested Thaksin was the reason to review the charter.

"The prime minister's thoughts run faster than the Constitution, so it might be necessary to change the law to keep up with him. He's a commander who moves faster than his army," Snoh said.

Former Constitution Drafting Assembly members who wrote the existing charter have backed calls for amendment to bolster the checks-and-balances mechanism before it falls apart.

"When we made it a rule that the censure motion must be submitted by at least 200 MPs, we never envisaged any party would one day have the staggering influence of 400 MPs in Parliament," said Decho Sawananont, one of the charter-drafters. "This hampers the opposition's work and the future looks bleak."

--The Nation 2003-12-11

Thanks for posting that. I bookmarked it.

The same situation described in that article is happening again today.

9 years later.

Jatuporn, Korkeaw, Natthawut etc. are just puppets spouting empty rhetoric about democracy and demagoguery.

[h90]

h90.

It would be interesting to hear their comments when they return to work, perhaps if you have time to canvass your staff and perhaps be able to pass on to the forum their take n the matter, we would all be interested to hear from eye witnesses.

Facts as opposed to suppositions we get from Jutuporn and his fellow born again liars..

Will do so.....

[EvilDrSomkid]

Personally, I think this country would benefit from 10 years of communism.

Another form of authoritarianism. Yeah, good idea.

I am convinced that you know this is an impossible scenario.

You know what happened to the communists in this country, right?

[KarenBravo]

Personally, I think this country would benefit from 10 years of communism.

Another form of authoritarianism. Yeah, good idea.

I am convinced that you know this is an impossible scenario.

You know what happened to the communists in this country, right?

Of course I know it's not possible, and yes, I know what happened to the communists.

Pity though, as a very short bout of communism would sort out the elite which clings to power in this country, at any price.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Dug this up as a reminder of Thaksin and his cronies skewed views on democracy.

http://www.thaivisa....-is-not-my-goal

PM'S DECLARATION:'Democracy is not my goal'

Thaksin suggests he'll block any move for amendments to rein in his power

BANGKOK: Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday revealed for the first time the value he places on democracy, saying it was not the foremost thing Thailand needed.

In a candid statement made ominous by its release on Constitution Day, Thaksin said that as long as the country could progress and the people were happy, he was not concerned about the means used.

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

In a comment to counter calls for constitutional amend- ments that would support the sputtering checks-and-balances mechanism, the prime minister hinted that he would block the campaign to amend the charter, an issue that could cause a fall-out between him and his Chat Thai Party allies.

"Democracy is a vehicle," Thaksin said. "We can't drive a Rolls-Royce to a rural village and solve people's problems. A pickup truck or good off-road car will do. We just need to think carefully and make the right choices."

Amid threats of total domination by the ruling Thai Rak Thai Party, the minor coalition partner, academics and opposition MPs agree there is an urgent need to sharpen the teeth of independent constitutional bodies and empower a parliamentary system of checks and balances.

"I don't think there's a need to amend the charter right now," said Thaksin. "Maybe they want to because they want to censure me in Parliament."

Many rules within the Constitution are said to be playing into the hands of Thaksin as they seem to ease his on-going consolidation of power and expansionist philosophy. Among them is the requirement that a censure motion against the prime minister has to be signed by at least 200 MPs.

Before leaving for the Asean-Japan summit in Tokyo, Thaksin avoided actually naming the Chat Thai Party, which has proposed a public referendum to amend the Constitution coinciding with the 2005 general election.

"If they really want to do it for good reasons, why didn't they do it earlier when they had enough support in Parliament?" Thaksin said. "There's no real need to change the highest law at the moment. If we do have implementation problems, we can review the Constitution's organic laws."

The Chat Thai Party has set up a working group to review the Constitution. But the study could take a long time, its leader Banharn Silapa-archa confirmed yesterday, at the risk of upsetting his powerful ally.

"We are reviewing both the charter and organic laws, as we think that it's time to amend the Constitution," said Banharn. "But I can't say whether we can finish in time for the next election."

Chat Thai leaders have said the charter has failed to produce an adequate system of checks and balances in the political system, as a single party dominates Parliament and many independent constitutional bodies.

Once lauded as one of the best constitutions the country has had, the 1997 charter is seen by a growing number of critics as having failed to cope with the realities of Thai politics in the era of Thaksin's political and business empire.

Chat Thai wants all political parties represented when selecting members of key independent bodies, which have been under growing influence of Thai Rak Thai.

Snoh Thienthong, leader of the Wang Nam Yen faction of Thai Rak Thai, also alluded to support for constitutional amendment and suggested Thaksin was the reason to review the charter.

"The prime minister's thoughts run faster than the Constitution, so it might be necessary to change the law to keep up with him. He's a commander who moves faster than his army," Snoh said.

Former Constitution Drafting Assembly members who wrote the existing charter have backed calls for amendment to bolster the checks-and-balances mechanism before it falls apart.

"When we made it a rule that the censure motion must be submitted by at least 200 MPs, we never envisaged any party would one day have the staggering influence of 400 MPs in Parliament," said Decho Sawananont, one of the charter-drafters. "This hampers the opposition's work and the future looks bleak."

--The Nation 2003-12-11

Thanks for posting that. I bookmarked it.

The same situation described in that article is happening again today.

9 years later.

Jatuporn, Korkeaw, Natthawut etc. are just puppets spouting empty rhetoric about democracy and demagoguery.

Here come some more famous Thaksin quotes: http://thinkexist.com/quotes/thaksin_shinawatra/